2nd Date with Firecracker || The Tussle
I like Firecracker.
She is the daygame girl formerly known as Miss Hong Kong. I renamed her this week, based on some obvious characteristics. Here’s a sample:
NASH: Good morning, FIRECRACKER. : ]
HER: Am i the fire? You are the “cracker” ?
NASH: Omg… You’re so racist!
See what I mean? She is 95 lbs of Hong Kong girl, calling me a cracker over text. Damn it, I laughed so hard when she said that. That, is a great example of why I am increasingly into this girl.
She is so fucking smart. Whip-smart. She’s super funny, and quick, which are both footprints of smart. I happen to find her delicious physically … but it’s this funny-smart business that puts her near the top of all the daygame girls I’ve ever dated. I would date and fuck other daygame girls like Miss Xi’an… but I could spend some real time with this one. The Tokyo Queen was super funny too, and that made her the best LTR I’ve ever had. Apparently… I have a thing for funny girls.
Firecracker is the girl I had sex with on the first date, a week ago tonight. The sex… was really good, actually. Best “first night” sex I think I’ve had. She has a long-distance BF, and wouldn’t kiss me, but I loved the experience.
Over text since then…
HER: But I won’t spend nights with you. Anymore ~
HER: I only enjoy talking to you.
HER: No kidnapping cute girl to your place. XP
This came up earlier in the week as I was trying to set up today’s date. I hadn’t said anything about sex or my place at all. I teased her a bit, she responded, and I started again the next day with the “Firecracker” comments above. Banter, banter, and then I restated the plan to take her to the modern art museum and said:
NASH: It’s a nice art museum, so you can’t put your hands all over me, okay.
NASH: Be on your best behavior.
NASH: Just look at art… And try to act normal.
HER: Okay.
HER: I am always normal and be a well behave lady.
NASH: (sent her a pic of a firecracker)
HER: Someone gonna get burn ?
Hmmm. Her last line was foreboding. But as we say in Burning Man culture… “safety third!” She’s right, though. It’ll end in tears. But I’m not trying to play it safe. I want experiences.
So she meets me today, and she’s not wearing glasses, she’s dressed nice, and she looks more edible than a chocolate doughnut. But she’s kinda stiff. And right away she says she’s going to dinner with friends after our date… and if you’re following along, that means no sex tonight. Fuck that.
I am Jack’s inflamed disappointment.*
But I try not to let it show. Uggg. The house was totally ready. I had set the “cheese cake trap” (I need to write about this). Fresh white sheets on the bed, so I could see her black hair spilled across them when I spread her legs… if things went well. But it wasn’t looking ideal. Whatever. I’m a solider. I’ll play the cards I’m dealt. And I’ll play them well.
Game is turning “maybes” into “yeses.”
I am a “member” of the modern art museum. So for a little over $100 a year, I can go as often as I want, and bring “a little friend” each time. I took the Taiwanese Girl here on our first date. Firecracker is the 2nd girl I’ve brought. I have a feeling I’ll get my money’s worth this year. And I know modern art well, so this is a place I am already “high on the ladder.” Playing to my strengths.
The date goes great, actually. I really don’t know if she and I will ever end up naked again, but I will give her a couple more dates before I give up on her. I really like her… so if sex isn’t happening, I will cut her off… for my sake. I’ll make sure she gets it.
So this date, I touch her a lot. I want the frame caddish and sexual. Her initial grumpiness fades quickly. I touch her constantly. I lead her around. We joke. The museum is world-class and inspiring. We roam from piece to piece, sharing our thoughts on the art and flirting. She’s compliant and lovely… and funny as always.
At one point we talked about how she was a little rattled on caffeine. She does have a bit of stale coffee-face. So at the right moment, I tell her I want tell her a secret, and I pull her in close (I’ve been whispering in her ear all afternoon), and I say, “You, do, in fact, have… coffee breath.” And I quickly kiss her neck before she can get away. And then push her away as she squirms and smiles.
Pull, push, pull, push. It was like that.
At another point, we’re walking up the stairs, and I have her by the wrist, and with my other hand, I cup her little ass. And she freaks out, and I get mock-serious, and raise my eyebrows and go, “What? What? Act normal! Get going!!” And she smiles.
One other time, there is this abstract-ish piece, like a male body, almost a mummy, but with an obvious cock. And I stop her in front of it. And tell her I know which part is her favorite. And she acts indignant and denies it. And I ask her if she wants to stay a while so she can really check it out. And she laughs. And I accuse of her only wanting one thing.
You see? I don’t know if I’ll get to fuck this little girl again. She straight up told me I won’t (although she didn’t mention it once today). But I am setting the frame as if it’s on. I will give her the opportunity. I’ll be as smooth as I can about it. We’ll see.
So the museum closes, and her dinner plans with friends aren’t for another 2 hours… she is a long way from home… so now is my chance to put some pressure on her. So I tell her I’m ditching her. And she says, “good” – because she’s a goddamn 95 lb firecracker, of course she says shit like that. And I tell her she can walk me to my train… but she’s just following me at this point. I know she has no place to go for the next two hours. I could take her for a drink, but I’m not going to. I want to tool her for making plans on the night of our date.
And we get to the train station, and she gives me a cold goodbye (which is partly just the non-affectionate, overly-practical, Chinese thing… I’ve seen it before, I’m learning), and I call her back, and make her hug me. And she does. 1/2-ass hug. She has not surrendered to me yet and she’s not sweet and adoring. And she says, “okay, go.” And I say, “No, you go, I want to watch your ass as you walk away.” And she smiles and shakes her head and I do… her little ass in a skirt. I want to eat that ass again.
I’m a little hooked on her. I know it’s obvious. Man, she got me fast.
So I do leave. I know she is stuck with nothing to do for 2 hours. Good! I’m not going to entertain her if we’re not spending the evening together.
Right away, I get this from her:
HER: What do you have to do before 7?
I ignore that. I want her to ache a little. This is war… until she surrenders.
I don’t get on the train. I jump back into the “girl tornado,” get on my phone, and start trying to work my leads for another date.
I have been giving girls “options” lately. Like “Let’s get a drink… Monday or Thursday?” So I try this with several girls, trying to get one of them out tonight, and/or setting up dates for later.
Thai girl is first. I was trying to get her out for Sunday, so I try that again, but give her the option of “or Tuesday? Or tonight???!” She gets back quickly, confirms she and I are on for Tuesday. Okay, cool. I then ping this online girl… she has been receptive, looks cute, but giving me short/boring responses so far. I say, “Hey, I know this is short notice, but any chance you’re free tonight? Or Sunday???” She hits me up an hour or so later, and confirms for Sunday. Okay, good. That’s two more dates set up. Girl tornado.
But I’m still in a non-sex-able position for tonight. I know she is at dinner now, hopefully drinking, so I ping her again, and I say:
NASH: Are you a cheesecake friend?
HER: Yup… huge friend.
That is call-back humor to something she said to me as we had post-sex Thai food the night I put my cock in her, and she asked me in “Hong Kong style,” if I am a “shrimp friend?” I’m throwing that back at her… because I’m smart too and I pay attention. I know she knows I know she knows I know. It’s like that between she and I.
NASH: Come by tonight for desert.
I go to the gym, put in a big swim, “sharpen the saw**,” as I’m not getting her back to my bedroom as fast as I had hoped and I’m not going to pout about it. When I get out of the pool, I have this in response:
HER: Nah.
Fucking punk. I love her, but… the struggle is strong with this one.
NASH: Okay.
NASH: If you decide you’re a *real* cheese cake friend… text me.
NASH: If I’m still up, maybe I’ll share???
I like that, as I am not asking for a response, and she has the booty call in her hand, if she’s ready. She declines… but again, I don’t need to respond. So I don’t. I ice her out.
So that’s where I’m at.
It was a great date, actually. We both had fun, I could see it in her eyes. But I am frustrated, as I’ve already had my cock in her and that is not happening tonight. But we had a really good time together. My body was dying to kiss her. To find a broom closet and molest her. We’re just not there yet. Not tonight.
As I sit here typing this… it’s 10:30 PM. She just texted me again, saying that her friends like the sticker I gave her. I am not going to respond to that. I haven’t responded to the last few messages she’s sent tonight. She knows the offer. If she doesn’t want to come inside the castle walls, she can ache out there beyond the moat. These are my terms. I’m sure she gets it.
I’ll get high in a bit and will shut off my phone. Have a whiskey. Maybe she’ll text me after all and come by??? I really don’t know.
I am calling tonight a “draw” in the tussle between she and I. We both scored some points. We both live to fight another day. We’ll reel her in in… or cut the line. I like her very much, but… discipline.
Ahhh. I want her in my bed again! I have dates scheduled for Sunday (online girl from NYC), Monday (Korean I picked up on Tues) and Tuesday (3rd date w/ the Thai girl). I have other plans Wednesday, so that means Thu is the soonest I can see her again…
I’ll lay off and hit her up on Monday or Tuesday.
Ummm… I like her. Smart, sexy, fun, little girl. She’s got me, a little… I am paying that price a bit tonight.
“Every one of these girls will have a cost. Invest wisely. What’s your worth?”
— Yohami
Fucking A… “Yohami is always right.” Again.
We’ll see. Viva daygame.
* Fight Club reference.
** Seven Habits of Highly Effective People reference.
First, congrats on the girl tornado. Second, here you can see first hand the result of going with one frame vs another. I told you “get other frames / techniques / pick what’s more powerful”.
The tussle sabotaged you, and this girl is probably gone. Unless you un-tussle it.
This puzzle was more difficult that then last one, which can mean many things or none – women are inconsistent, like water – regardless, your job is always the same.
Last time you conquered her by ignoring the limit, you jumped on top of it – acted with your body, progressed, you took her, acted as if, moved forward.
This time you stopped before the imaginary line she draw and then proceeded to fight. I call that “pushing against rejection” but you labeled Tussle. So you tussled. Until you were frustrated, then you quit.
What you didnt see is that this situation was identical to the time before it. She escalated the puzzle, the solution was to escalate the solution. So the same thing you did last time, but more. Just like she did.
————–
The girl says there wont be sex (any more) and that she has a dinner after the date, effectively neutralizing you. She also wont kiss you etc from her previously set boundaries.
What you did:
You (I guess) respected her previously set boundaries, so you didnt kiss her (or fuck her in the ass or put your dick in her mouth). Also accepted that there wouldnt be sex (but you flirted through it which is ok for the most part), and accepted that there wouldnt be sex and that she had a date later.
What “the man” would do:
Kiss her when she says hello, or kiss her when there’s some emotional ramp in the date, while kissing her grab her by the pussy, stop a cab, take her back to your place and fuck her, have her call her friends and cancel the dinner (if it was even real) and fuck her again, ass and mouth.
What you did, again:
You went in a quasi relationship date in a setup that de-escalated sexually from the previous date (instead of ramping up), you accepted the boundaries she gave you, superficially, but then proceeded to pressure and play emotional games, in a roadmap that you already know and maybe sometimes works, most likely not.
What “the man” would do, again:
Fuck her, fuck her good.
What you did:
Not that.
Why was she there?
Because you fucked her the last time, she wanted more of what she got. Now the puzzle is higher for whatever reason. It doesnt matter. She’s there because there’s sexual tension. Sex is on the table. You know what you want. You know she wants it. She’ll present a puzzle. You do checkmate while avoiding the traps, take valuable pieces, get what you want.
What you did:
Not that.
Her reaction:
Girls live in “boy tornado” themselves, always ranking men and trying to stick to the best option. All it takes is a slip like this and you’re done, so it depends on how bad she wanted your cock and how disappointed she was that you didnt provide, and how she managed to feel good again, it may involve fucking another dude. Yes, girls also have phones full of numbers.
Basically, Nash, the trick you’re trying to pull by getting them to “surrender” and punish them emotionally doesnt work, and never will, because it’s not masculine. It’s not a turn on for them. I dont mean this in a pejorative way, it’s that there are masculine and feminine forms. Girls will react with horniness to the masculine frame and not to the feminine frame. What you WANTED was that she cancels her dinner and comes to home to fuck with you. Thats your true desire. But you’re not stating it, not taking it, not making it happen. So TAKE IT, MAKE IT HAPPEN, STATE IT, DO IT.
I’ll do several comments on some lines now.
>> grab her by the pussy, stop a cab, take her back to your place and fuck her, have her call her friends and cancel the dinner (if it was even real) and fuck her again, ass and mouth.
Yeah. Urrrrggg.
This is the part I didn’t really see. I should have walked out of the museum, and grabbed us a cab, told her “I wanted to show her something.” Tom T’s line, “We’re going to Disneyland.”
Honestly, I don’t know that I could have “pulled that off.” I bet that doesn’t surprise you. I’m on the edge with this stuff, Yohami. Sometimes, I can. Sometimes… this is just a bit outside my reality.
We could have sexed in that space after the museum closed. I couldn’t see it. Her “puzzle” of dinner with her friends rattled me a bit.
I was doing a little better by trying to set up that booty call. But she wants me to take her. She doesn’t want to “come over.”
“But she wants me to take her. ”
Go to her place and fuck her, eat her food, watch a show.
” I’m on the edge with this stuff, Yohami. Sometimes, I can. Sometimes… this is just a bit outside my reality.”
That’s fine, dont go hard on yourself, what’s great is that you’ve being given chances to try and error, the more the better.
“Honestly, I don’t know that I could have “pulled that off.””
The trick, for now, is not to try to “pull anything off”. Be normal, move in the direction you want to move. This is where the less you care, the better. Having the girl come to your place to fuck is not “pulling something off”. It’s an action. Perform it. That’s why she’s there to begin with. She may present another puzzle and then another and then another. The key that opens all these doors is the same door, it’s your master key: know what you want and go for it.
>> Basically, Nash, the trick you’re trying to pull by getting them to “surrender” and punish them emotionally doesnt work, and never will, because it’s not masculine. It’s not a turn on for them. I dont mean this in a pejorative way, it’s that there are masculine and feminine forms. Girls will react with horniness to the masculine frame and not to the feminine frame. What you WANTED was that she cancels her dinner and comes to home to fuck with you. Thats your true desire. But you’re not stating it, not taking it, not making it happen. So TAKE IT, MAKE IT HAPPEN, STATE IT, DO IT.
Yeah. That is what I wanted. Well said, Yohami.
I wasn’t about punishing her, I was about not rewarding her for that set up… not being her gay best friend for 2 hours until her dinner, then I go home alone. But I still think your right. I could have lead us better yesterday. I need to see this.
“NASH: Omg… You’re so racist!”
All that flirtation is good and fun, A+
“I could spend some real time with this one. ”
Good, but this is a cheater motherfucker with a cold heart, cheating on the BF, fucking a guy she doesnt know in the first date. She is all these things, plus this.
“Best “first night” sex I think I’ve had. ”
Most likely because you were “the man” and took her. The first sex with an alpha is the most intense sex they have.
“HER: But I won’t spend nights with you. Anymore”
This is a puzzle and can mean many things. For starters, it means that she does want it, but what to see where you stand. Will you tell her to? ask her to? beg her to? can even mean that she wants to fuck in a hotel now. But this is a NO that means YES.
[
“HER: No kidnapping cute girl to your place. XP”
This basically means she’s ready to be kidnapped. She introduced this frame, right? “kidnapping”. She wants to be taken “by force” against “her will”, which is why she’s doing the charade that this may never happen. Oh no Im never going to have sex with you, you would have to time up! look at there, there’s some rope!!
“NASH: It’s a nice art museum, so you can’t put your hands all over me, okay.”
The flirting is good, but why are you taking her to a museum?
If it’s to display high value, you already have it, you dick was inside of her, and she’s talking you into kidnapping her. If you want to have a good time, that’s great, but ultimately you want to fuck her tonight. Is it close, is it strategic, what’s your play? she’ll want to know too.
“NASH: Be on your best behavior. And try to act normal.”
All that banter is great.
However unless you’re tying all the dots, this is a de-escalation from the first date, going asexual, ramping down, instead of ramping up. This can make sense if you’re setting up to have a real relationship with her. But this is a girl with a BF. Are you trying to be the new BF, after she just showed you she has no respect for hers? nevermind, I’ll assume you have a plan, because she would assume the same, so we’re all in the same frame.
“NASH: (sent her a pic of a firecracker)
HER: Someone gonna get burn ?”
She’s teasing you sexually there, this is the equivalent of “you’re a jerk”, “she’ll punish you” “by fucking you really hard”. All the banter is on point.
“This will end in tears”
That’s not what she meant.
“And right away she says she’s going to dinner with friends after our date”
That’s “we’re not going to have sex tonight”. The “man” response is to bruise that off, basically, you know it’s not true, she’s playing a game “no kisses”, “ok but just the tip”.
“I am Jack’s inflamed disappointment
But I try not to let it show. ”
This is where you go off frame. Maybe it’s because “you really like her”, from the same guy who was heartbroken because one girl gave you a bad phone number. The attachment and scarcity permeates everything, direct the frame. Dont let it. You assumed that you lost, and defeated yourself, look:
“The house was totally ready.”
No sex happening tonight for you right? you’re not going to fuck her.
“I’ll play the cards I’m dealt. And I’ll play them well.”
Except you’re not. You’re playing with her rules. In her rules you will always lose. Your job is to go for checkmate. You listen to her to understand where you’re both at, then you go for what you want. There’s no game where you do what the girl tells you she wants you to do, and as a reward you get what you want. That’s not the puzzle.
“Game is turning “maybes” into “yeses.””
Actually, no. You can tell by the framing, the starting point is a “maybe”, and you work hard to turn it into a “yes”
That’s not how you fucked her. She never told you “maybe you rub my pussy and I’ll get super wet”. You went for the yes.
Game is the art of behaving like the man, so women turn themselves into “yeses”
” this is a place I am already “high on the ladder.” Playing to my strengths.”
This sounds like a great place to take some girl you havent fucked yet. Or a girlfriend. Who is she?
“. I really don’t know if she and I will ever end up naked again”
This is entirely up to you.
” I will give her a couple more dates before I give up on her.”
You totally regressed on frame. This is a girl you already fucked – now you want to “work up” your way into her vagina, a couple dates more. The signal you’re sending is you’re that much below her, that she giving yourself to you in the first date was a mistake.
“So this date, I touch her a lot. I want the frame caddish and sexual. ”
This is great and should have some kissing on it. But the museum setup is weird, as in, what do you want from her?
“You, do, in fact, have… coffee breath.”
That was the moment for the makeout.
” But I am setting the frame as if it’s on. ”
All that is great. You’re working it a little too hard instead of taking what you want.
From here is where the off-frame completely sabotages you.
“So the museum closes, and her dinner plans with friends aren’t for another 2 hours… she is a long way from home… so now is my chance to put some pressure on her.”
PRESSURE dude, no. No. No. No. No. No. No.
PULL.
This is the perfect place for you to look at it. Look at the difference of PRESSURE and PULL.. When you unbuttoned her bra and played with her nipples, these things are actions that go in a direction and turn her on, you’re taking her where you want her to be, that’s a PULL. See how quicker she was assuming there was going to be sex, like multiplied by your leading force.
In contrast the PRESSURE, the PUSH, you want something but you see resistance on her so you nag and splash and manipualate and want her to give you something specific, as in, you’re the one giving a puzzle instead of solving the one in front of you, that you could, always, solve by taking what you want. Which is what she wants you to do.
” So I tell her I’m ditching her. ”
You could have said “Im taking you home”
“I want to tool her for making plans on the night of our date.”
You already conceded defeat because you were given a puzzle, and now you want her to pay for it. That’s not how you solve the puzzle – becacuse that’s not what gives you what you want.
Another thing you could have done is stop in the middle of the street and say: kiss me. Come here.
The winning scenario is taking her home, fucking her, she cancels her dinner, or goes to it full of your semen under her clothing.
“She has not surrendered to me yet and she’s not sweet and adoring.”
Why would she?
“Man, she got me fast.”
The issue here is not that she got you – but that she got you to reverse back to a frame where she’s not crazy about you, a frame where you work your ass up to her, climbing uphill. This Tussle frame.
Stop doing that bullshit.
” I know she is stuck with nothing to do for 2 hours. ”
Because the plan was always that you fuck her.
“HER: What do you have to do before 7?”
She wants it so much she’s willing to start solving the puzzle for you, guiding your hand. Here’s your second chance.
“I ignore that. ”
See how stupid this is?
“I want her to ache a little. This is war… until she surrenders.”
She’s willing to ease the puzzle so you can fuck her – but you want to inflict pain and make her surrender… to what? to your unwillingness to take what you want?
I applaud that you went into girl tornado – means you’ll live this exact situation again and again and again until you figure it out.
“NASH: Are you a cheesecake friend?
HER: Yup… huge friend.”
Dude.
I should proofread before clicking “send”, so many typos
you would have to time up! – was “you would have to TIE me up, oh look there’s some rope!”
So much good teaching here, man. Thank you. I promise I’ll go thru all this a few times. I’m listening.
>> There’s no game where you do what the girl tells you she wants you to do, and as a reward you get what you want. That’s not the puzzle.
Jesus. That is good. I’m getting closer. You’re right.
>> Game is the art of behaving like the man, so women turn themselves into “yeses”
Uh. I’m soaking in this.
>> PRESSURE dude, no. No. No. No. No. No. No.
I am starting to get what you mean. I am stuck in this “combat” frame. It’s an old pattern for me with some kinds of girls (not all). You’re helping me see this.
>> You could have said “Im taking you home”
This is exactly what I should have done. You’re right. I played struggle, instead of dragging her to my place.
I am not convinced she would have gotten into a car with me. I think she might have said no, and then I’d be on the sidewalk, and then? As I imagine it now, I could have got the cab, said, “get in,” and then left her there… gone two blocks, gotten out, and started my work on the tornado.
>> Another thing you could have done is stop in the middle of the street and say: kiss me. Come here.
I think for a lot of girls, yes. I sort of like this idea, eevn for her. But this one has been a flat out “no” to kissing. So I make this kind of move and then she says no, and just got a firm “no,” instead of trying something else.
For the record, my plan was:
— Museum
— Beer
— My house… sex
— Dinner
Or, if she wouldn’t come home after the beer… dinner, then my house.
>> “HER: What do you have to do before 7?”
>> She wants it so much she’s willing to start solving the puzzle for you, guiding your hand. Here’s your second chance.
Actually, I don’t agree with you on this part. Here, I was solving a different puzzle. She is cat. And if you go towards cats, they will often run away, or scratch you and jump out of your lap. Sometimes, to get a cat, you have to walk away. And the get curious, and come rub against your leg. I think that’s what I did here, and she responded like cats do. I feel confident about this part of what I did with her.
Eventually the cat will crawl into your lap and purr. Will flip over and show you it’s belly. There is truth to this. This is the surrender I am looking for… not saying I’m doing a great job of it, but there is truth to this.
>> “I ignore that. ”
>> See how stupid this is?
Yes, I do. You’re right. That move, isn’t bad. But my frame was wrong… I shouldn’t have been in that position at all. I should have tried to take her home.
That’s what Im calling “manipulation”. You want thing X, but instead of thing X you do Y, because you think she’ll do X in response, but then she does N, which surprises you, so you do YY.
Let’s put it this way, this is a battle of frames, or a dance that is broken. You’re doing chachacha and she’s doing salsa, then you switch to technomusic because you want her to dance reaggetton.
When you move that to the proper (alpha) frame and it’s simplicity, this is what you’ll see:
– You behave and act like you want sex, you tell her “cancel your dinner” “I dont care about your other plans, you’re with me now”
– She’s a woman, she gets turned on by your dominance, she complies, you fuck. OR:
– She’s a woman, she’s fickle and had other plans, she doesnt care about you, she says “no” or increases the puzzle
– When you see that she’s not going to give you what you want, you effectively have no use for her and walk away, not because you want that she changes and gives you something. You’re actually not giving a fuck and walking away
– She’s a woman, she gets turned on by your dominance and chases you, like a cat. OR:
– She effectively didnt want you that much, in which case you just saved yourself a lot of trouble investing where there was no profit.
—————-
What doesnt make sense is jumping into “I’ll walk away” before even having been exposed to the rejection, before even having gone for what you want. You’re imagining scenarios where you move forward and get rejected and planning what to do and reacting to that scenario, when what you should be doing (in frame) is picturing what you want, how to get it, and doing checkmate – and if you cant win, cant get what you want, then move on cleanly, which is also a super turn on for women and can make you win by quitting, if it’s an honest move.
This reminds me of that smoker ex girlfriend with boobs who wanted you after you broke up. Walking away = strength = turn on. Pretending to walk away when you actually want to fuck = manipulation.
This whole conversation is great. But this paragraph in particular is a fantastic summary, and is what I’ll be cut-and-pasting into a file of key ideas I reread regularly:
“What doesnt make sense is jumping into “I’ll walk away” before even having been exposed to the rejection, before even having gone for what you want. You’re imagining scenarios where you move forward and get rejected and planning what to do and reacting to that scenario, when what you should be doing (in frame) is picturing what you want, how to get it, and doing checkmate – and if you cant win, cant get what you want, then move on cleanly, which is also a super turn on for women and can make you win by quitting, if it’s an honest move.”
>> I applaud that you went into girl tornado – means you’ll live this exact situation again and again and again until you figure it out.
Uh. Yeah. Ha. Fucking “beta boi karma.” I get it. The tornado will teach me… with a little help from the Yohami.
Man… talk to me about this?
I don’t get folks that meet up, lets say from an online exchange, and just go straight into sex. I don’t get that. That’s not even what I want.
This is not about Madonna/whore. But I like to spend a little bit of time w/ a girl before I fuck her… at least at first.
For long term lovers… yeah… they walk in the door, I push her up against the wall, makeout with her, and take her upstairs. Yes. This is very typical me, once she/I are in it.
But when I am first getting to know a girl… I want a little time. Like an hour! A drink, the vibe is set, and I’m ready. I can’t take a girl I know nothing about, and march her straight to my room. I assume I can… but that doesn’t even sound good.
That’s what the museum was for. That’s why I like taking girls to dinner. A little time to get in synch, and I’m very happy to escalate from there. I don’t think that’s weird. Maybe it is, outside of “top alpha” game. Maybe I just can’t see it yet?
I get that I have to solve the puzzle (I love that analogy, Yohami, very, very good one). I get it.
And I want to get some new tools here… I’m listening to you.
Urrr. Learning is hard. Good thing I like girls as much as I do.
“I don’t get folks that meet up, lets say from an online exchange, and just go straight into sex. I don’t get that. That’s not even what I want.”
I agree on personal preference. I used to require DEEP connection to a girl before having sex with her. For the most part I learned to move all the getting-to-know-each-other for after sex, and let the animal take charge and center and let lust be what it is.
But, nothing wrong with the drinks and museum and stuff. You need a playground to be yourself. Just know that it’s not required FOR HER. You’re doing that for you. You’re effectively taking your time (even an hour!) before having sex with her, because you’re not a slut (heh). That’s a good frame to have.
>> I learned to move all the getting-to-know-each-other for after sex, and let the animal take charge and center and let lust be what it is.
Yeah. Jason Savage says “sex trumps affection.” And I get that fast sex gives her an experience she can’t have w/ an “average” guy. This has been very hard for me to digest… but I’m getting it.
And when I’m in the “tornado,” this is much easier than when I am in famine mode.
Thanks, Yohami.
Never heard of Savage, checking him out
No problem, I hope my rambles are useful to you
Here’s the Jason Savage talk I live the most.
I think it’s often great to get sex out of the way at the beginning of a date; then you can enjoy other activities together in the glow of lingering oxytocin, with no games left to be played.
(This goes triple for girls I’ve already had sex with. Just to be clear, I’m not talking about first dates.)
I’m with you 1000%, JC. I think I said something similar in my comments to Yohami.
My favorite lover of my life would pick me up from work, and we’d start touching each other right away. Then my house, shower, sex… if we could even make it out of the shower. Then we’d lay around and enjoy each other… me, incredibly patient, as my balls were empty. Then dinner. Then another round of sex. And then I’d send her home. It wasn’t *only* about the sex… but the sex was important, and I liked that we both knew that, and would get to it right away. Then, relax with each other. Great plan.
what if she was feeling used, and just needed more comfort?
Yeah. Right?
I don’t know, man. I think sometimes, girls do feel used. Or not used, necessarily, but that the guy they are with is *only* a horn dog. And it’s not that they don’t want sex, but that they want the man they’re with to be more than only that. I think this must happen sometimes… girls can get “sex,” anywhere.
But I want to be careful I don’t put girls in the “good girl” box. I am increasingly convinced there is no such thing as a “good girl.”
>> But, nothing wrong with the drinks and museum and stuff. You need a playground to be yourself. Just know that it’s not required FOR HER.
I am trying to make sure I make room for what Yohami is saying here… a lot of the time, I know he’s right.
nash,
is it possible that one girl needs very little trust and emotional connect to fuck a high value man because she is more impulsive, more adventurous, more sensation seeking, or simply more horny at that moment?
and, is it possible that another girl needs more trust and emotional connection because she is less impulsive, less adventurous, less sexually experienced, or simply less horny at the moment?
or, is it possible that ALL GIRLS BEHAVE EXACTLY THE SAME AT ALL TIMES?
>> or, is it possible that ALL GIRLS BEHAVE EXACTLY THE SAME AT ALL TIMES?
Seems unlikely, right? : ]
To clarify this:
“>> But, nothing wrong with the drinks and museum and stuff. You need a playground to be yourself. Just know that it’s not required FOR HER.”
This doesnt mean that she’s ready to be fucked – this means that the plan you made is YOUR progression, not HER progression.
Her progression is the puzzle. The progression you planned serves YOU to elevate your status and display attributes and set the mood and frame, which may or not be compatible with what she needs. What she needs may include some of these, or none, hence her puzzle.
What you must pay attention to is what she responds to, and what she doesnt respond to. Then you do more of what she responds to and less of what she doesnt respond to, while you keep progressing towards the checkmate.
The most important thing is that you jump as far as you can towards the checkmate whenever you see the possibility, and sometimes when you don’t even see it. That’s the ‘escalation’
Moving at a constant pace in your predetermined plan is not enough and is counter producent. If you see a way to kill it in one move, do that. To know where you’re at, look at her and see what’s the status of her puzzle. She’s there and she wants something. Put your focus there. The end result is that she wants the same as you, she just wants you to take her in a particular way. She wont express it frontally but she’ll let you know, as long as you keep moving her there, she’ll verbalize (and otherwise) what’s next.
This sometimes will mean she wants to fuck immediately, sometimes will mean she wants some other type of game o connection, and the same girl will want different things, and some girls will want something specific from you and something from other men, etc. She wants something, figure out what it is.
This goes on top of all the other stuff, it’s not a replacement. The bottom line is she’s there because she wants cock.
>> What you must pay attention to is what she responds to, and what she doesnt respond to. Then you do more of what she responds to and less of what she doesnt respond to, while you keep progressing towards the checkmate.
I’ve heard you say this before… and this is deceptively simple. I am using this guidance, mostly in the physical sense. Last night… what makes her moan the most. But I see this in the non-physical sense as well.
Simple coaching… but a very good lesson. Yes.
>> The most important thing is that you jump as far as you can towards the checkmate whenever you see the possibility, and sometimes when you don’t even see it. That’s the ‘escalation’
Yeah. I’m trying to take bigger leaps. This is how we get new reference experiences… by going for it. I’m sitting in a high-volume situation (date last night, another one confirmed for tonight, another for tomorrow, another for Thu)… so I’m extra bold. I can feel myself “trying tricks I’ve never landed before (skateboard analogy).
“I am increasingly convinced there is no such thing as a ‘good girl.’ ”
i agree that that is such a loaded term, it would probably be smart to stop using it. i like how jimmy jambone was saying it, how some girls have overall “less slutty behavior” and other girls have “more slutty behavior”.
the LSB to MSB spectrum.
or, even better.
LSAB to MSAB spectrum.
less sexually adventurous behavior to more.
>> the LSB to MSB spectrum.
>> or, even better.
>> LSAB to MSAB spectrum.
Love this.
Or that some girls engage with different men for different things… just like your/my relationship to what we think “wholesome” is. Some girls can bring out their inner wild side with the R-selected type, and then revert to holding hands for 6 dates with the “K” guy.
>> i agree that that is such a loaded term, it would probably be smart to stop using it
Actually…. that phrase is really important to me. I think to both of us. Not that we are promoting that frame, but that we’re exploring it.
I think it’s an interesting place to start… and then, get a lot of “first hand” experience across girls, and see for ourselves.
Also… a very spicy conversation to have with a date. I am having this conversation a lot lately on dates. Girls have a very interesting POV on this topic as well. Good way to signal membership in the “secret society.”
Riv,
“is it possible that one girl needs very little trust and emotional connect to fuck a high value man because she is more impulsive, more adventurous, more sensation seeking, or simply more horny at that moment?”
Yes.
“and, is it possible that another girl needs more trust and emotional connection because she is less impulsive, less adventurous, less sexually experienced, or simply less horny at the moment?”
It’s not only “possible”, that’s exactly right. More so, even the same girl will require a different cocktail every time, because are inconsistent, have the ovulation period, have drama spikes, horniness spikes, jealousy spikes, insecurity spikes, etc. Every day the mix will be different, and every girl is different. If you nitpick and zoom, every girl is a human, and no human is identical to any other.
But if you zoom out and see the big picture, then all girls are girls and all girls what the same thing. There are broad strokes and fine strokes.
“or, is it possible that ALL GIRLS BEHAVE EXACTLY THE SAME AT ALL TIMES?”
Depends on the level of zoom that you’re at, but the way you’re wording it means you didnt get the idea yet.
Women are women. Are you ok with that? for sure?
*But if you zoom out and see the big picture, then all girls are girls and all girls WANT the same thing. There are broad strokes and fine strokes.
Namely, they want “the man”, “the high value guy”, “the cool guy”, the “confident sexual guy who takes no shit from anyone”, the “guy with a sense of humor”, the “swagger”. If this wasnt the case, then GAME would be impossible.
You either embrace the generalities as a starting point to understand not just women, but men, and society, or you reject it to embrace individualism and unicorns where the rules dont apply to you for whatever reason – except they do.
First go to the general and then break the rules individually.
We’re humans, we have shared traits. We’re men and women, we have shared and distinctive traits. We have instincts, psychology, patterns, we act in predictable ways. Then at very close range everyone is different, just a little.
Thinking about this more today – the question is meaningless without defining what is comfort, so what do you mean by it?
Often comfort is defined against attraction – but this can mean many different things. Attraction creates tension, so comfort would be the release of tension. Attraction is building the joke and comfort is the punchline and the laughter.
Then people like Todd use comfort to describe something to prevent your value from going too high so you’re “unattanable” (like that was a problem most guys have!).
If you Game like Julien with a lot of negs then comfort means giving compliments here and there so it’s not all push downs.
If used in the Beta frame, then comfort is “backrubbing”, interview mode, feigning interest, plus asexuality as in “I am NOT going to try to put my dick in you”, because betas are comfortable for not having dicks. Which leads to this point:
What matters the most is who you are and the frame you reside in.
Comfort means, basically, feeling good. Good feelings. Lack of pressure, lack of dissonance, harmony. For a woman, comfort means getting what she wants. It’s not about speed, not about pace, not about subject, not about theme, not about emotionality, not about anything really, but about what she wants.
What she wants is a man who’s not nervous, a man who is confident, a man that is leading at a constant pace and is going somewhere good.
What she wants on top of that is a specific mix that is always different. For one girl it will be lots of humor, for other will be lots of sexuality, for other will be passion, for other will be intellectual conversations, for other will be validation about her looks or whatever, for other will be rejection and violence. Comfort: getting what she wants.
But words are words. Attraction – comfort are tension and release, that’s a useful way of looking at it because it tells you how to handle it. Create tension then deliver.
If you’re using comfort as “lack of sexual intent” then that’s not it. Telling a girl you wont have sex with her is not comfort. Trying to form emotional bonds is not comfort. Comfort is whatever she wants and giving it to her.
As long as you’re still leading with your frame instead of following her around.
>> Comfort means, basically, feeling good. Good feelings. Lack of pressure, lack of dissonance, harmony.
Yes. This is close to what it means to me.
>> For a woman, comfort means getting what she wants.
I disagree here. Again, this is all just “words,” but with that said… she might want adventure, and that is not comfort.
Comfort, is letting off the tension, so you/she don’t snap the line. She might want adventure, but will fry her circuits, if there isn’t enough comfort.
>> What she wants is a man who’s not nervous, a man who is confident, a man that is leading at a constant pace and is going somewhere good.
This is great. Yes, I think that is what she wants. I wouldn’t use this as a def of comfort… comfort sits within this model you’re presenting here.
“Comfort means, basically, feeling good. Good feelings. Lack of pressure, lack of dissonance, harmony. For a woman, comfort means getting what she wants. It’s not about speed, not about pace, not about subject, not about theme, not about emotionality, not about anything really, but about what she wants.”
you use 50 words and not one of them is TRUST?
odd.
“She might want adventure, but will fry her circuits, if there isn’t enough comfort.”
If it’s too much adventure, then it’s not “what she wanted”. Im being very specific with that line of “what she wants”, it’s not more, or less, but exactly.
Women have this thing about getting exactly what they want without having to ask for it. Not more not less just “perfect” – that’s what Im calling “comfort”.
But I make no claims this is what others say comfort means. I still dont understant what is Riv talking about when he mentions comfort, for example.
“you use 50 words and not one of them is TRUST?”
Trust is the result of you being confident and congruent. But tell me more, what does comfort mean to you?
actually holy smokes, 400 words to define “comfort” and you don’t even use the word TRUST once. the closest you come to is “forming emotional bonds”, which i admit is pretty close, but still, what is so confusing about the idea that some girls are happy to do strange things with strange men —- and that other girls needs to establish much more TRUST with a man before she will let him enter her body?
again, i know that all the tough guys in the room will try to burst that bubble by saying, yeah, but every girl has had at least one one-night stand in her sexual past, so that means that ALL WOMEN ARE ALL WHORES —- and yes, i do believe that all women have the potential to be whores, but that’s like saying all men have the potential to be serial killers — it means nothing.
getting back to the original issue, i just think it is dangerous — and erroneous — for nash to start believing that every girl just needs more alpha shoved down her throat, like that’s the only answer to seducing a reluctant girl. i do believe that some girls need to feel more trust before they open — even if it is after fucking once before.
“actually holy smokes, 400 words to define “comfort” and you don’t even use the word TRUST once. ”
Define comfort.
“the closest you come to is “forming emotional bonds”, which i admit is pretty close”
You just slapped a girl hard and she likes needles in her body. She finds that comfortable. Your girlfriend wouldnt find that comfortable. I am using a definition for comfort that tailors to every girl, aka “what she wants”. You seem to want to have a static definition for comfort that applies to every girl.
Comfort is not “emotional bonds”. Some girls dont find that comfortable. Ask them, ask a lot of them. Start forming emotional bonds with the sado masochistic girl, lets see what happens.
Ask.
Just like I ask you, what’s your definition? what is comfort?
“but still, what is so confusing about the idea that some girls are happy to do strange things with strange men —- and that other girls needs to establish much more TRUST with a man before she will let him enter her body?”
Here’s what I replied to that before (up in the comments – copy paste):
[…]That’s exactly right. More so, even the same girl will require a different cocktail every time, because are inconsistent, have the ovulation period, have drama spikes, horniness spikes, jealousy spikes, insecurity spikes, etc. Every day the mix will be different, and every girl is different. If you nitpick and zoom, every girl is a human, and no human is identical to any other. […]
“again, i know that all the tough guys in the room will try to burst that bubble by saying, yeah, but every girl has had at least one one-night stand in her sexual past”
That’s just true.
“so that means that ALL WOMEN ARE ALL WHORES”
I don’t understand that. Why is a girl who had a one night stand a whore? what is a whore? why do you hate her?
I find odd that someone doing Gama, aka, learning or emulating the behaviors of the men who can get laid, hates women who like these attributes and respond to them. Every girl you Game and likes it, is a Whore by definition? or how do you handle this?
My view is that WHORES are women who get paid to have sex. I have no feelings towards them other than some pity. SLUTS are girls who have sex even if they are not in a committed monogamy – and yes, every girl is a slut. But the word doesnt have any emotional charge.
” —- and yes, i do believe that all women have the potential to be whores”
So yes or no?
“but that’s like saying all men have the potential to be serial killers — it means nothing.”
No of course it means something. It means that in the right occasion, under the right circumstances, a girl will have sex with a man that makes her horny, without having gone through the deeper courtship to enter a fully committed relationship. And yes, all women are like that, generally speaking. And what you’re trying to do with learning Game, is becoming that man, as opposed to being the man who needs the months courtship and deeper connection / investment to get laid, since you recognized (or should have, since this is the basics of red pill) that women see the men who they sex up quicker as higher value.
Quick sex = higher value than delayed sex.
One semen is more preferred than the other.
“getting back to the original issue, i just think it is dangerous”
What is the danger? tell me more.
“and erroneous — for nash to start believing that every girl just needs more alpha shoved down her throat”
That’s what every girl is telling you she wants. What are you doing learning Game otherwise?
I can see there’s a crack and you’re with one leg on each side. You’ll have to make up your mind at some point.
“like that’s the only answer to seducing a reluctant girl.”
If the girl is reluctant, press next.
” i do believe that some girls need to feel more trust before they open”
Yes. And some need needles and slapping. Some need to share deep dark secrets. Some need lighthearted fun. Some adventure. Some intimacy. Some vertigo. Some etc. “What she wants”
I get the impression you’re not reading me and are fighting some idea you have on your mind.
“even if it is after fucking once before.”
Fun stuff.
Updating from our chat in FB:
Comfort =- Trust and Emotional Connect = TEC
My view: there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. Some girls will require that, and some girls will require the exact opposite. The girls that require it will agree TEC is comfort. The girls who dislike trust and emotional connection will say TEC is not comfort.
Words are feeble.
I had to go back to Mystery’s M3 to understand whats this comfort / trust idea about. Here (and effectively, it’s not the same that, say, Todd means by “comfort”). What Mystery calls comfort, I call “hanging out” and “having fun”
Mystery is wrong in some things here. Well not wrong, he is “off-frame”, there are several tales, but to put it simple, Game was created from a Beta frame and it permeates the whole thing.
Basically what this ignores is:
1) Women are sexual creatures, fine tuned and highly evolved to measure you against all the other men she’s known, adept at ranking you socially, and responding to you in a way that is congruent with how they view you in the hierarchy
2) Women have pre-set responses and mechanisms to deal with men belonging to the several hierarchies.
– To men with more value than she does, her response is LUST, the higher the value of the man, the more uncontrollable her lust. This will make her fight for access, betray friends, family, ruin her life, this is the strongest impulse of them all.
– To men with same or lower value, her response is FRIENDSHIP, she will socialize, aka, flirt, with these men to get their investment, and keep at a safe distance. She’ll try to have sexual power while neutralizing all the sexual power from the males in that category. These men she doesnt respect, they are to be used.
– To men of quantitative lower value, her response is REVULSION. She fears them, hates them, etc, they are the creeps.
3) Humans belong to several groups and hierarchies, women are all the time ranking, real time, experiencing all the cues and tribes and adjusting, permanently. Women experience mixed emotions because of the intra-tribes hierarchies, the same person, the same man, can be in several different groups and different rankings, each one triggering a specific response, so for example a man exhibiting characteristics / traits from high value can awaken her LUST, but also her REVULSION if the man belongs to an enemy tribe. Humans are complex.
4) This never stops. It all can change with the pass of a switch. This is ongoing. Forever. Permanent.
So, what Mystery describes as a 3 phase thing makes complete sense from a field where the man meets the woman in a same or slightly lower level than hers, and from there keeps working his way up and pressing buttons so he can make her experience LUST. He starts low, and goes up. Goes from one frame to the frame above it. This is work.
The 3 phases from Mystery actually happen at the same time.
When you “open” and when the woman sees you, if you have enough value, the relationship is already sexual in nature, aka LUST and not FRIENDSHIP, so all there’s left to do is for her to evaluate how good of a chess player you are, or, “who are you in all the hierarchies”, so you display your attributes. All the time hanging out, or Mystery’s “comfort” you’re still being evaluated from a sexual point of view. His last step “seduction” has been happening since the beginning. The woman knows you’re there for sex, and is spending all that time with you, this is not something that happens at the end. This is more of Mystery’s way to rationalize his own progression from FRIENDSHIP to LUST, when in reality the woman was always in LUST, and just trying to determine if you were the real deal.
So Attraction, Comfort and Seduction are the same thing. If you try to split that as separate parts in a process, you’ll make yourself off-synch with the girl.
The whole thing from beginning to end requires that you
1) Display value
2) Entertain her
3) Build connections, emotionals or otherwise, get to a similar frequency
4) That you lead the frame consistently and escalate towards sex
5) That you read her cues and take her when she offers herself
6) That you take advantage of every permission that she gives you, dont fall in the traps
7) That you’re consistent (with high value)
I remember reading this stuff when I was starting “4 to 10 hours” to have sex after meeting a girl. It blew my mind, I thought, but how? that’s the time I require just to get her warm. I used to spend months in the same girl, building friendship, trust, then revealing my feelings, trying to convince her to give me a chance, then dating, then resistance, then drama, then commitment, then some sex but not really, then finally some real sex, sometimes A YEAR after I had met her. So 4 to 10 hours? wtf, I thought it was impossible.
Now I’d say 4 to 10 hours is conservative but his map here is nothing but the same Beta map, just condensed. The beta mapping gets in the way. Throw it and get the map that she really responds to. Goes like this:
Display your value, and take her when she gives you the opportunity to do so.
That may take a minute, or a few hours.
Here’s M3:
————————————– ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— —-
http://www.seductionbase.com/seduction/cat/In_the_Middle/Others/184.html
“The Mystery Method M3 Model is divided into 3 steps: Attraction, Comfort and Seduction, each of which is divided into 3 phases. The Method teaches a set of strategies and tactics for each phase to successfully move the interaction forward toward the end goal, which is the creation of an intimate sexual relationship.
Step 1: Attraction
The goals of the ‘Attraction’ phase are: to start a conversation with the target (‘Opening’); demonstrate high ‘value’ to the ‘target’ in order to build her attraction to the pickup artist (‘Female to Male interest’); and to appear to become increasingly attracted to her, for reasons other than her looks, while making her increasingly invested in the interaction (‘Male to Female interest’).
Step 2: Comfort
In the ‘Comfort’ phase, one should attempt to establish rapport, trust, connection and a sense that the interaction is real and genuine. According to the Mystery Method, “the game is played in comfort”. It is the longest and most crucial step and generally takes several hours, possibly over the course of several days, to complete. Mystery writes that of the average 4 to 10 hours (cumulatively) it takes to build a connection sufficient for the initiation of a sexual relationship, as much as 90% will be spent in the comfort-building phase.
Step 3: Seduction
The ‘Seduction’ phase is the physical escalation towards sex and dealing with a woman’s natural apprehension towards sex with a new partner. It also includes dealing with Last Minute Resistance (LMR), for which the Mystery Method advocates freeze-outs.
By Mystery”
————————————– ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— ——————— —-
When you talk to the girls after the fact, dont ALL of them tell you the same thing?
“Boys only want one thing”, “when a guy comes to talk to you in the street is because they want something” – etc. She’s been there, at the end, since the beginning. Just watching you progress towards checkmate and making her own mind, feeling in her body if you’re a good match. The whole time you’ve been doing “Game” she’s been seducing you, giving you cues so you know what to do to fuck her, and giving you little puzzles so you can display your attributes, telling you how to take her.
That’s whats she has been doing since the beginning. She’s measuring you and another ten guys. Nonstop.
And this just jumped on my youtube recommendations
“If the girl is reluctant, press next.” -Yohami
words to live by — if you love BP girls.
Instead of engagging in the argument, Riv, you’re spitting snarky remarks and running away. In this case you dont even make sense. How about you prove me wrong by providing some arguments, or just show where the logic breaks, or add data, whatever.
Here’s how you dont make sense, you want to seduce a reluctant girl? here’s the definition for reluctant:
“unwilling and hesitant; disinclined, unwilling, disinclined, unenthusiastic, grudging, resistant, resisting, opposed, antipathetic;”
Why do you want to seduce THAT girl? dont you have girls who like you? here’s the kind of girl you should be spending your time with:
“willing, available, inclined, enthusiastic, chilling, involved, sympathetic”
“if you love BP girls.”
Are the girls who like you BP? what are you talking about? Which one do you think matches BP more, the unwilling one, or the unwilling one?
Eh, typo. =Are the girls who like you BP? what are you talking about? Which one do you think matches BP more, the unwilling one, or the willing one?
For the record, BP girls are the ones who would make you wait the most. Flirting until you go crazy, then rejecting you, pushing you away until you go crazy, then pulling you in again. Then if you manage to get into a relationship with one that cycle gets worse, with multiple breakups and made ups, ups and downs, chasing that happy unicorn that you thought was there when you started chasing her.
Doing Game from an Alpha frame is the antithesis of hanging with BPs. BPs are for the codependents and the Betas, that’s where their food is.
Being able to press NEXT and walk away when / if the bullshit comes up is the cure for dealing with girls with problems. Even if you dont press the button, knowing that you have that option already cures a lot of the illnesses.
“if you love BP girls.”
If you love the BP girls, the contrary, wait. Keep working up that reluctant girl, work harder, try to please her, give her more trust and time and escalate and be persistent and put up with mistreatment, go ahead.
But that’s not Game.
“Display your value, and take her when she gives you the opportunity to do so. That may take a minute, or a few hours.”‘
and if it takes longer than a few hours, press next, right yohami?
ADHT.
“and if it takes longer than a few hours, press next, right yohami?”
Are you feminazi now.