The Education of a Young Girl | Sundance’s Daygame Lay
This is a story about Sundance’s* latest daygame lay. About little girls and the Secret Society. And about the role of experience in the sexual marketplace… Who’s got it, how it’s earned, and what that means.
Let’s begin with this POV: Imagine you’re a young, 20-something guy, trying to date some cute girl you know from school or work or whatever.
I once was once that guy. Basically clueless, but trying my best to make something happen. This is most guys.
I knew I wasn’t slick, but in those days, I didn’t realize how inexperienced I was (I had no idea). More importantly, back then (and even now) I had no idea how much experience the girls had. Or why.
And while experience can be seen as absolute experience (vs “none at all”), here my focus is on relative experience… vs the girl.. and vs other players that are in that girl’s life. For the average guy, I’m assuming that guy scores low on both scales.
What about this little girl he likes? Maybe he wonders about the girl’s background, and he likely has some assumptions about her experience. Maybe his evaluation is as simple as “nice girl” or “slut.” That Madonna/whore thing again.
For now, let’s call her “Jenny.”
Jenny is young, she looks (on the outside) to be a little conservative. Or shy and introverted. Maybe she seems less difficult to game, because she’s not a Ukrainian supermodel or because she doesn’t claim 5000
followers orbiters on Instagram. I mean, how much experience could she possibly have? This young, traditional, “naive” little girl??
Jenny might know a lot more than we think. And there is a good reason for why she knows what she knows… We’ll come back to her.
“What about Sundance then,” you might ask? “Wasn’t this story about his lay?” Yes, it is. We’ll come back to that as well.
About four weeks ago I was out hustling sets. A cute, young Chinese girl caught my eye. She went into a store, I followed her in, approached, and took her number.
I mentioned her in my story about the teenager I was dating last month. Here is what I said:
“[She]… was a 20 year old math major at a prestigious school near my city. You have to be very fucking smart to go to that school… but the big brain on this girl isn’t why I picked her up. I could care less if she is a math genius… but I am assuming she is exactly that.”
I called her Math Girl. I hadn’t dated her at the time, but I did get her out eventually… the day after that teenager. That was a good weekend for me in terms of young girls in my life.
I never posted anything about that date, but I did start some notes about my night out with her. Here is something I wrote but never posted:
“She framed sex in terms of ‘relationships,’ over and over. As in, she isn’t into anything casual. I don’t know how solid she is there… Could be expectation more than experience or personal preference, but she hit on that theme over and over.”
There was ^ that… Word for word what I wrote about her two weeks ago. That supposed focus on “relationships” isn’t the point of this post, but it’s an interesting side note.
I also wrote this:
“She is 20… And her first partner was an older white guy (like me), about 33-35. They met in an elevator, she was upset about something, he comforted her. That led to some kind of relationship. He was a western guy, in China on business, he travels a lot.”
I had more to say about all this, but for now, let’s leave it at that.
The date was fun, I had a good time with her. I tried to kiss her mid-date. She rejected it (normal, no big deal). We had dinner, which was delicious. I invited her to my place. “Next time,” she said.
I put us both in a car… Going to my place, and I kissed her on the way. And then again. Good makeout. She didn’t want to get out at my place, so the car took her to her train.
Okay, cool. Not a magical date, but a hot, young girl. I wanted to see her again. Interesting girl… Smart and sexy, by my standards. I liked her.
Now back to Sundance. This was from him to me via text a couple weeks ago…
SUNDANCE: Cool. I’m setting up a date with Chinese girl before she leaves on Thursday…
Good deal. I love it when my wings are doing well.
That night he sent me a few more texts, as it was a long date, lots of hoops to jump through. He was giving me some updates.
A few hours later, after midnight, he sent me this:
SUNDANCE: Got her :)
Okay, cool. +1 for Sundance. Go daygame.
He was away that weekend, so I didn’t hear the whole story… But I think that was his 2nd daygame lay, in a relatively low number of approaches. He’s doing well.
Fast forward to a week or so later and he and I met up to hustle the streets. I was curious about his lay, so he gave me the breakdown.
First, he claimed she was low quality. He showed me a pic. From that shot she looked like a “cute Chinese girl” to me. She was my type, and looked “perfect” (but I like nerdy Chinese girls). Sundance was less enthusiastic, but he liked her enough to pick her up and get her naked. We moved on with the conversation…
It was a long date (lots of logistical challenges) and eventually ended with him leading her to a motel. It was a great effort on his part, and he closed her. I love it.
Good story so far… I think it gets better.
As we walked off down the street talking about her, we had this exchange:
SUNDANCE: Yeah, she’s only had one other real BF
SUNDANCE: And she met him in an elevator and…
NASH: Wait… an elevator?!!
In case it wasn’t already obvious… I said my “Math Girl” also met her last BF in an elevator. Coincidence? No.
Now, Sundance had already shown me a pic of this girl… but I didn’t recognize her. And I was digging thru my phone to find a pic I had of “Math Girl” and Sundance says…
SUNDANCE: Well, was her name “Jenny?”
NASH: What??!! Yeah. Wow. Same girl, dude. Wow.
I showed him my pic… Yes, same girl.
Okay… I am new enough to this to be surprised that my wing and I picked up the same girl, on different days, and both dated her. That seems remarkable to me (even as I’ve heard my heroes like Janka tell similar stories).
Sundance and I continued to compared notes…
When I posted about the Teenager, I said Math Girl had sent me some messages about her plans to come to the city, and then again when she arrived that day. I was at that eclipse party in Oregon (and offline), so I didn’t get those messages until much later… And that was, of course, the day Sundance picked her up.
Amazing. I showed him the messages I got that day, and said, “Aug19?” “Yes,” he said. That’s the day they met. My date came after that. His date came after mine, and he fucked her. That’s the timeline. And you can imagine her messaging us both during that time (while we didn’t know it), setting up those dates.
As daygamers, we pick up a lot of girls. Being able to compare notes about a given girl with your wing is an interesting way to tease out who she really is. It’s rare, but it happens. In this case, comparing notes with my wing showcased more about female psychology than about this particular situation.
For me, this whole story is about the war… not the battle. I feel like I learned something here.
Let’s look at Jenny’s level of sexual sophistication:
We know the first guy met her in public, seduced her and fucked her (she told me so, on our date). I picked her up in the street, only had one date, made out with her (with decent prospects to get her out again). Sundance picked her up via daygame, one date, closed her (despite her being a “relationship” girl).
And the details above don’t really match up to the facade of innocence we might see when we look at her. It’s not a facade, not really. It’s a “misconception” on our part. It is a mistake to see her like that. It’s us, hallucinating a “virgin” (vs a “whore”), when in reality… even simple, normal girls are really someplace in the middle of that range.
So she may be nervous… or shy… or introverted… or young and childish. But she’s not innocent. She’s not inexperienced. Her sexual experience is about what has happens to her in the past, not what emotions she displays in the moment. And her sexual experience is driven by us… not by her own effort or actions.
There is no judgment in my voice when I say that none of these girls are innocent.
Elsewhere I have been making a point that hypergamy is a function of “better” men making “better” offers (thus, she branch-swings). A girl’s experience in the sexual marketplace is mostly passive. When you see activity, it’s because a man put that option in front of her. That’s how it works. Hypergamy is a function of men, out-competing other men. And women, almost passively choosing from a menu of choices men put before them.
And I carry that logic over to how sexually sophisticated girls are, even very young girls. They have a tremendous amount of experience… Because of us. Men just like us, approaching her, making her offers, all through her life (since she’s been fertile). We are unwise to underestimate how much experience this is, and equally unwise to assume “innocence” where there is none.
To be real… I’m glad I couldn’t see all this when I was that age. It would have been intimidating. I probably would have given up. I would have MGTOW’d it out of town. I would have become a fap recluse.
The meat of what I want to say is this: She is young and cute… So she can passively sit back and rack up experience as “world class” players try to get her naked. Nearly every day, with almost no effort on her part, players like Sundance step up to her and educate her. She is also a “student of game.” And players are the professors. Each day is a chance for her to see her worth in the eyes of men, her opportunities to mate/date, and to learn, at the most expert level, how the game is played.
Outside of the Secret Society, almost no one can see the what is going on (that’s the point of the Secret Society). The uninitiated see their own personalized version of the “innocent girl.”
In reality, these “little girls,” are likely getting “taught” by 100 guys per month (3 per day?), while she’s out and about (from alphas/sigmas), and another army of weaker hands online (from betas/omegas) or in her social circle. Years and years and years of men (the most effective with deadly-serious game) trying their best. That’s quite a training regimen.
As a man, is your personal training regimen keeping up with little Jenny’s?? For most of us, the answer is no.
She is well-raised, and she knows what high-value men are like. She knows what sexual mature men are like. She has practice in the dance with men that know what they are doing.
And because of that experience with men that are a proper sexual threat… She is the equivalent of us. Even though she is less than 1/2 my age.
It is only as I step up and really push myself, that I am now beginning to approach Jenny’s sexual maturity. The maturity Jenny acquired by doing basically nothing at all, but walking around looking vaguely cute, getting hit on, screening offers, and following the lead of men in the Secret Society. Day after day.
Players start to educate girls at an early age, and those girls have an “advanced degree” in game that those outside the Secret Society could never understand. The average little girl’s education is beyond that of most players themselves… until those guys get deep into intermediate-advanced territory… Then they pull ahead.
At the end of the day… Nobody can see the sexual world like the experience player. But Jenny is close. That pack of intermediate-advanced players, plus all the “Jenny’s” out there… that IS the Secret Society. A sexually mature (and active) subset of the population… that the average man is not a part of and cannot understand.
For guys the same age as Jenny… most don’t stand a chance.
So now we arrive back at that 20-something guy. And his complete lack of ability to measure up to expectations of a girl his age.
He likely has little to no practical education around sex, mating and dating. While she has been on the receiving end of sexual offers since she was in her teens, he’s rarely been approached (and almost never by the girls he wants). He’s got the larger culture in his ear, feeding him bullshit about “be more emotional” and “be nice to girls.” He is likely “bluepill,” believes the shit he sees in romantic comedies, he’s drunk on the Disney narrative.
How does our 20-something friend get a piece of Jenny? The answer is… he doesn’t. She has better offers. From “grown up” men.
That guy’s opportunity is this: He can start down the path of the players journey. It’s that, or live a life of frustration and sexual scarcity, the life of an average man.
He has the opportunity to start down the path of learning what we know… The nearly futile task of catching up to the level that Jenny, and Jasmine, and Jessica are at… The education those girls have… that they have earned, for doing nothing at all beyond screening offers from serious men.
Hey 20-something… welcome to the Sisyphean task (and the work) of earning a spot in the Secret Society. Girls are born into it… Men have to claw their way through the door. GRRRRRRRR!!!!
As serious as I am in this post, it begins with proper respect to Sundance for claiming another seduction. Of a delicious little girl, 15 years younger than him. Fuck yeah. You’re an excellent wing, and a cool guy. I’m proud to roam the streets with you.
Beyond that, this is me, coming to terms with how clueless I’ve been most of my life. This is me, slowly waking up to the challenge I’ve been facing for years… And am only now coming to understand. This is me, wading deeper into the reality of the Secret Society.
This is me… realizing how much I don’t know. Even now. Just like that 20-something kid that wants a piece of Jenny (and will never get it), I too… have a lot to learn.
This story taught me an invaluable lesson about the level these “nice girls” are at… And WHY they have the education they have. Why their little-girl-game is so damn good.
And why even as we level-up again and again… It’s so damn hard to be a street seducer (or any kind of seducer). Because we’re not up against Jenny. We’re up against all the players that came before us, and other men of game in her life right now, and how they set the bar so damn high.
When that 20-something guy can show Jenny that level of game, she’ll say, “Ahh, he must be in the Secret Society.” She’ll be right. Jenny knows what she is talking about there. She likes guys in the Secret Society. They “get it.”
What an education. What an opportunity for men (those who have the stones) to put in the work to learn to really “see” past the facade. What an incredible experience.
- Sundance, BTW, is the daygamer formerly known as “Buckle.” New “brand,” same guy. Go Sundance!
Nash, you write well and describe brilliantly. For all those, including myself, who find the conversion from bluepill to redpill difficult to fathom understand and digest, this post made complete and utter sense. And that’s why In
Hey Brave… thanks man.
I really did learn a ton from this story… trying to peer into their minds a bit. I’m slowly getting it. This process is how we earn our “reference experiences.” One girl, and one story, at a time.
I knew what was coming! I really appreciate your posts, I really do. Feels like a ‘Brick by brick’ narrative. And we all can relate, hah
Thanks man… that is one of my favorite posts. And one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned from all this time with the girls.
Never underestimate a girl’s “education.” And know that what she knows… she learned from players.
Two things pop into my mind after reading this:
1. All woman are naturals, and it’s because of us.
2. “Women are complicit in their own seduction” or “women are rooting for you to succeed”
I’m way too new at all this to really know anything at all, but it seems like the only thing that matters is…are you in the top 20% of guys (in whatever screen she uses: money, looks, status…GAME) who have made an offer to her? If you are, and the TIMING is right, she’s rooting for you and wants to be seduced. It’s the Theory of Relativity. Well, maybe not…
That said…I know nothing
>> 1. All woman are naturals, and it’s because of us.
If MEN are “naturals” because they were around strong/bold/experienced men when they were young (which is what I think a Natural is), then WOMEN can make the same argument… they’ve been in the company of strong/bold/experienced MEN.
Go Sundance. You’re a very good wing, man. Cheers to our future exploits.
This has got me thinking…
Naturals, to me, are people who have either systematically, or by pure chance, learned to be great with the opposite sex by being extremely observant and willing to test boundaries without needing ‘permission’ from pu/seduction material or gurus. Rinse and repeat.
To me a bold father, or brother, giving instruction is no different than learning from a guru. One just has a genetic interest in seeing you do well, and the other a financial. Same idea and result, just different motivation.
What’s interesting to me is I’m realizing I know a lot of this intuitively, but I didn’t know that I was ‘allowed’ to do it. In our current discussion, and one we had briefly on the street yesterday, is that we frame what the girls are ‘allowed’ to do based on our interactions with her. It’s entirely up to her whether she decides to go down that road but she must know that it’s open, discreet, and safe in a dangerous way.
The world is made up of people needing permission to do things…
Damnit, Nash, you haven’t been making your wings solemly swear to leave your asian girls alone like you did with me? ;-)
I know, good point.
-1 to Sundance for poaching Asian girls in my territory. : ]
(To be real… she surrendered to him. And her thighs were the final authority on this one.)
BTW… ran into that 16 year old daygamer that we met that one time… He’s still at it. Good for that kid. I’m proud of him.
Hats off Sundance on the lay. Nicely done.
Nash – great post and you’ve called out a key concept that I’ve never seen anyone else break down so well: “Her sexual experience is about what has happens to her in the past, not what emotions she displays in the moment. And her sexual experience is driven by us… not by her own effort or actions.”
This is spot on and why I believe most men who do get to intermediate and beyond do so in their 30’s or even later. You have to learn on your own what girls get to learn from the men approaching them.
The sexual marketplace is competitive, for both men and women. This is why the players journey is often one of self improvement, you can learn tactics but eventually you have to be the best version of yourself to compete. Likewise women are out there competing for the “high value men”, often with the pressure of their declining value as they age. It’s why girls typically move to the big cities as soon as they can, they know they’re more likely to find what they want there.
It’s a never-ending competition but personally I enjoy it as it brings out the best in me. That said I do believe you can maximize your odds by choosing the best city for you, given your preferences and what you bring to the table. Each city has its own sexual marketplace and you can do better or worse given the supply and demand of that city. Personally I’ve been traveling more to see what else is out there and I’ve learned a lot.
Hey Magnum. Good to hear from you, man.
>> you’ve called out a key concept that I’ve never seen anyone else break down so well: “Her sexual experience is about what has happens to her in the past, not what emotions she displays in the moment. And her sexual experience is driven by us… not by her own effort or actions.”
Yeah… that thought was “born” as I typed out this post (it took a long time to write). I think this is very true… that part about her “emotions” do not equal her experience. So don’t “misunderstand” her just because she’s blushing or a bit nervy. Good signs… but are no indication of her experience.
^ This is a good thing. The alternative is that she is jaded, and then her jaded response is an indication she’s had a little too much of this ride… and it’s buzzkill for everyone. Not her fault… but no one is craving jaded women.
>> That said I do believe you can maximize your odds by choosing the best city for you
It shocked me year ago when someone suggested that “if you don’t live in a major city, and you want women in your life… move.” That sounded crazy. Now, I believe this 100%.
This guy in Tokyo drove the lesson even deeper into my understanding… his logistics were 5 min walk from hunting grounds to his bed. And he exploited that masterfully. This is STEALTH PUA from Tokyo. He fucked 30 girls in Aug. I believe him. I’ve hunted in his neighborhood, and I’ve seen him game… the logistics are so good… fish in a barrel. Logistics matter.
Logistics. “Amateurs talk about tactics, pros talk about logistics.” And WHAT CITY is logistics, at the most basic level.
Sexual marketplaces are real. I’m getting laid somewhere between 20-50% easier and with 20-50% hotter girls in my current third-tier US city compared to San Francisco.
In San Francisco I’m a small fish. Just another generic white guy with a tech job. But out here I’m foreign, exotic. Plus the logistics are better when you can take girls back to a house and have bars/tea shops a short walk away. Compared to SF when living in a neighborhood with good logistics can set you back $1000/month for a room in a shared house.
Real talk. But I think you give ‘Jenny’ a little too much credit, talking about her from a male point of view, calculating. She just feels when she’s excited, and much about the lay may be left to chance as opposed to running good game. A certain look she likes, how she feels that day, etc. Things out of your control, or any intermediate/advanced guy. When you say “step up and really push myself” what does that look like? Doing more sets? Reading new material? For me, it’s working the logistics to find my place in the game – where the most amount of variables that I can’t control are working in my favor, whether that’s a certain city, or a certain venue in a city. I feel comfortable with the fundamentals now.
“And because of that experience with men that are a proper sexual threat… She is the equivalent of us. Even though she is less than 1/2 my age.”
this is very well written. i don’t think it applies to ALL girls, or even MOST girls, but it generally applies to the hotter girls and the more socially outgoing girls.
this reminds me of why yohami would say “she can see you coming from a mile away”. girls are so sexually savvy, they can see right through our sexual desires. they can smell our sexual shame and our sexual NEEDINESS.
they came up with the term “micro-expressions” to explain things that women see intuitively. things that women **feel**. that’s why more and more, i think it’s important to have at least one “backpocket pussy” that you can fuck on a regular basis, even if she isn’t that attractive. otherwise, it’s nearly impossible to hide the sexual neediness — and that’s the biggest turn-off for a girl. sexual neediness.
women are cruel that way. if you’re not getting any, she doesn’t want to give you any!
the more you need it, the less she wants to give it to you.
Some sensible and eye-opening points made here Riv. Btw, both you and Nash have similar writing (and so thinking) styles.
[…] my comment on nash’s blog: […]
some of yohami’s writing from 2011, on my old blog:
“girls can see you coming miles away. girls can see what you are doing from very far. most of the time the result is already decided, and the girl already knows where she wants to put you in, and most of the times she will just let you do your thing, just to see you try, just to see your will to get her.”