First Date with Miss Siren
Ahh, man. I like this girl.
She was my “dreamy” set of the day last Monday. And then… She was basically the set of the day, again, when I ran into her once more on the street two days later.
I was making an argument in Monday’s post that she was an 8. She is not an 8 – not your 8, anyway. I thought she was incredibly charming when we met. I am as convinced as ever that she is a remarkably tempting and special girl.
She is quiet, and quiet is important to her. She is also slow, she takes her time, she’s languid. She is smooth, deeply feminine. Graceful and liquid.
She is thin. Her wrists are about as big around as a golf ball. Her skin is that beautiful, white, translucent skin you find in some Asian women. It’s incredibly soft. She’s probably about 5’5″, which seems tall combined with that thinness and her straight, skinny legs.
I get the feeling she is nearly flat chested, and saying so makes me imagine her nipples. I love that image. And I bet she has a skinny ass… but nice hips. At this point I am dying to see her naked.
When we met, I tried to number close her, but she suggested email instead. That’s is usually the same as a “no.” She left me, however, with a long, remarkable stare that felt real. I emailed her the next day, trying to set up a date. I was gushy as I wrote about her in my post, and I figured all this exuberance was a signal I was too into her and that she would blow me off. And she did… no response to my first email.
So when I saw her on the street again two days later, it could have been weird… But it wasn’t. It was a gift, a chance to get “in there” a little more. It seemed to do the trick.
I reopened her, and she definitively knew who I was and remembered my name. She calmly looked me in the eyes and said, “I didn’t respond to your email,” and I said, “I know.” And we stood there and stared at each other.
She is the kind of girl that will close her eyes for a second… will take a full breath… maybe two… before she’ll respond to a comment. Not defiant as much as out-of-time. I read all that as her being secure. She strikes me as having high self-esteem. This is a good thing.
As I left her on the sidewalk the second time, I told her it is my job to make offers. That when she is ready, she can accept one my offers. And she gave me that long, deep stare and matching smile in response.
She also told me to check out her music online. I did. She is a composer. I listened to some of her pieces. That was also the first time I heard her sing.
So the next day, I sent another email. I talked about her music a bit. I also included two more offers. 1. A lunch date. And 2. A trip to the museum. She mentioned in that second meeting that she doesn’t drink (none of the girls I’m picking up these days drink). I purposely proposed these two “PG” options. I figured these would feel “safe.”
In the email I also said, “Here is my number, text me and say, ‘I’d love to!'” This was a mix of commands and cockiness. I was somewhat confident that she’d respond.
And she did.
As I was waiting around for my date with Velvet Mouth, I got a text from her. She wasn’t in my phone, as we had done all the work in person and via email. She obeyed my “command.” And she was yes to my “idea #2.”
We met on a rainy afternoon at the museum. We looked at the art for maybe 2 minutes before she suggested we go to the cafe. A pulled my chair around next to hers and we talked and drank tea.
She has a quiet voice, doesn’t like loud places. Doesn’t like a lot of Chinese people as she thinks they are too loud.
Her dad is good guy, but works a lot, mom thinks he’s a little boring. Mom sounds bubbly, taught her to dance, sing, and play instruments. She’s an only child.
At one point in the cafe she casually and quietly sang a few vibrating notes. It was so intense to be around this girl. She is very concentrated.
She plays the harp. You getting a sense for what kind of girl this is?? You can meet these kinds of girls on the street. It’s amazing.
She brought up an ex boyfriend right away. Friends first, then BF/GF, year and half, broken up two months now. She hit some emotional note and her eyes teared up. She said sorry for crying and I smiled and changed the subject and she was laughing 2 minutes later.
I don’t know who did the breaking up there — although she didn’t look resentful about it, just emotional. She said that as they were breaking up he said, 1. She never cooks (and he cooks), 2. She doesn’t wear makeup (true… I find her lovely/fresh without it), and 3. She was boring. These were his critiques of her, as she presented them to me. All of this in the first 20 minutes of our date.
Note “boring.” She mentioned that about her dad as well.
We talked about what kind of man might work for her, and she was quick to point out that she needs to be independent. She said she doesn’t want to meet her husband at work, because she wants to have different interests and friends.
Yohami sometimes talks about a girls “puzzle.” About how she’ll give you a puzzle to solve, and I think he is mostly talking about what needs to happen to sex her. I mix Yohami’s concept with the concept of “trance words” which feel related to me.
Her “trance words” as I see them are: quiet, boring, and independent. Keys to her puzzle. I am not saying she is those things, but those words are on the tip of her tongue. They are present in her psychology.
I touched a bunch. Touching her thigh as we sat. Grabbing her wrist (something I always do). I had a hand on her lower back from the start, she took that all very well. Her body is so thin, and soft. She touches back, had her hand my knee too. Put her hand over mine to show intimacy a few times. Her small, white hands. She’s has a delicate feel to her.
We walked around, looked at some art. She is deeply artistic and all her comments were mature and interesting.
We had one moment where the art was this large, spread open oval… if you follow me. And I asked if she knew what it was about. And she ventured, “a leaf.” And I corrected her… “that’s a pussy.” She didn’t blink. And I liked that because we left safe territory, and proved we can talk sex like grownups. And she proved to me she’s not a super-prude, as we chatted about pussy and the “vagina dentata” and other such talk for a bit.
And the museum closed and we walked toward the train.
As we got to my stop, I asked if she was a good hugger. And I could tell, she was nervous/excited about the idea. I spread my arms out and she got more nervous, but she was clearly going to hug me… so I teased her and backed up, prolonged the tension, watched her squirm. It was just a hug, but it was still emotional for her. I stepped back in and waited for her to move in. She did, cautiously — in part because they don’t hug in Asia, that is a western thing. And I smothered her little Chinese hug with a big American-style hug, with one hand on the back of her head, pulling her into me. Not sexy, but we’re moving her in that direction. Even that was a type of surrender.
And she walked away as slow and graceful as always, glancing back at the last minute for one more look… Like a girl that just had a very good time.
“will take a full breath… maybe two… before she’ll respond to a comment. Don’t defiant as much as out-of-time.”
Interesting. She’s a feeler. She’s asking her deeper conscience. She doesnt fit in the world, partially like Honest Girl, but this one is floating next to the world (not above).
This paused, quiet contemplation is part of the “puzzle”. She’s watching you in slow motion. You’ve got nowhere to hide.
“I didnt respond to your email”
Very subtle shit test for a hi.
Han solo move. Good.
“I told her it is my job to make offers. That when she is ready, she can accept one my offers. And she gave me that long, deep stare and matching smile in response.”
You passed a test.
” She is a composer.”
Interesting. Is she good?
“Here is my number, text me and say, ‘I’d love to!’””
Fuck. Yes. Perfect.
“We looked at the art for maybe 2 minutes before she suggested we go to the cafe. ”
She’s leading you.
“She brought up an ex boyfriend right away.”
She’s leading you straight into the puzzle, grabbing your key into her lock, and making you spin it to see it will open.
There are no mindgames here, just going through the motions.
Girls offer all the required information upfront.
“Yohami sometimes talks about a girls “puzzle.” About how she’ll give you a puzzle to solve, and I think he is mostly talking about what needs to happen to sex her.”
You picked up this girl because you want to fuck her. She said yes to your proposal but presents a scenario, a context, a game for you to perform. And she’s watching.
Perform like an alpha male that knows that game and knows how to get her, and you solve the puzzle. Perform like beta male needing her guidance because you dont know the game, or act like an omega brat and protest that there’s a game at all, and you lose quickly.
The puzzle elements are simple. She wants something from you, but you dont know what it is so you must figure it out. She has some things that turn her on, you dont know what they are so you must figure that out. She has a worldview and a context, she is a type of person, you dont know these things, and you have to figure them out. All of this wraps around sex, and the solution means you fuck her and you put your semen in her. I point this out because this is not about getting to know her for real or discuss real things – all that is going on is a screening process in her part to see if you ‘fit’ in her.
The question that will show you her puzzle:
– What does she want? What does she do NOT want?
– What does she respond to, what she doesn’t respond to?
– There’s a kind of man she would say YES to, what kind of man is that?
“Her “trance words” as I see them are: quiet, boring, and independent.”
These are good descriptive words, or labels, but dont tell you much about how to fuck her – yet. ]
You could say that she wants a man who is quiet, boring and independent but that wont make it. Can say that she needs a man that lets her be quiet, boring and independent, but that wont make it.
Instead look back, to this moment:
“I told her it is my job to make offers. That when she is ready, she can accept one my offers. And she gave me that long, deep stare and matching smile in response.”
This is the path. She’s in a deep state of contemplation, you perform something and state some grander truth of the universe, and she surrenders. Then:
“Here is my number, text me and say, ‘I’d love to!’””
You double down and take command.
You’ll find that these two things work universally with girls. What special about this case is where she’s at. She’s sitting at a very high place, slow place, really feeling, processing everything meticulously. This is a great setup for you to learn btw, low room for bullshit, very clear indicators.
By the way what I tried a few times is ask questions about the ex since that carries all the information you’ll need. They’ll tell you straight away what they wanted, what they didnt get, how the guy was a jerk or a loser for specific reasons, and what you get from there is what kind of man she’d say YES to because she said yes to that guy, plus all the new information. For example if she says the guy treated her badly and cheated on her, you’ll be able to fuck her by being a cheater and treating her badly. White knights get nothing. The exception for this is girls who already have a boyfriend but are in the dance with you – in that case they’ll talk about the bf in contrast to you and how he’s a loser and your job is to simply put him down, so they feel good that you’re a better option to fuck and they are justified.
Though I stopped asking because the truth is, I already know, I don’t care, and Im more interesting than all their baggage.
Back to you.
“She’s has a delicious feel to her.”
“We walked around, looked at some art. ”
She moved you away from the art to go for a cafe, which is an indicator that she’s ready to be taken somewhere else (she’s switching venues!). How did you get back at the art place? My guess is that you took her back and she offered some minimal awkward resistance. Big place -> smaller place -> you could have taken her to an even more quiet and private environment, not necessarily your place, but a place where she can blossom. She showed you the direction. Add that to her list.
Some girls will blossom taking them to crowd places with parties, some will by taking them to long mute walks on the beach. It’s whatever their emotional world requires. This one would to great in after sex conversations.
“Not sexy, but we’re moving her in that direction. ”
There’s some stuff missing in the story. You were touching her, she led you to a more quiet place. Why is the setup not sexy yet?
You picked her up. She said yes. Then she volunteers all these items on how to get her, even the bf story, all laid out. Why are you not kissing her?
Why “not yet”
Is it you or her?
Viva Nash game.
About my description of the puzzle again and the things you must figure out –
You don’t get that information by asking directly. Even when the girls are presenting all the info upfront, they wont say the truth, because when they communicate they only say things to manipulate the way in which they are perceived. They dont present facts, but a story, and they are a character. This character must be perceived and understood so you can deal with her, this character is part of the puzzle.
But you cant ask directly because it breaks the story, breaks the magic, interrupts the flow, asks the wrong side of the brain (the logic side).
Also you can’t ask directly because it sends you in interview mode – in that mode you’re interviewing a celebrity or asking for cues or chasing, and can quickly deviate to boring subjects (work, mundane things) instead of going for where the meat is (emotions, compatibility matching).
That said there are ways you can ask for things directly, when it helps the emotional setup – when it shows you’re bold, or when you’re leading to a specific territory.
And there are girls who only understand straightforward, explicit language (squirting girl probably, maybe even Honest girl)
But most girls live in the meta, like Firecracker.
Since asking directly is dumb, how do you get the information?
By “swinging your dick” in front of them, or “showing your value”, or being more concrete: talking random stuff, setting the tone, making jokes, doing judgement on things, self amusing yourself, doing conversation, leading into activities, teasing – then watching her give you all the cues back, seeing how she reacts, seeing what turns her on, what doesnt, etc. In a way is like doing standup and having an audience, and following the mood of the crowd, doubling down when a joke lands, skipping through subjects when the public isnt receptive. In a way is like sex, you keep going for your own pleasure but that involves handling her body, and her constant moaning tells you what’s working and what’s not, for her, gives you feedback on the energy. In a way is just like a normal conversation, you hit the shit and something picks up, and you follow that.
Here, in the sexual setup of pickup, or seduction, it’s all about going from hi to sex. And it always have to be on the table, the sexual energy has to be charging everything – it’s your job to carry that energy and stimulate hers.
This is the “being a sexual man”. Your presence has to become sexual by being always fueled by strong sexual, masculine energy, it always has to be coming through, which makes girls react to it, specially the girl you’re talking to, then you pick up the hanging fruit.
Great stuff. I compare it to sales (as I always do, because that’s my field). The prospect will not tell you what they want. You must question until you find out, and then tell them what they want.
As soon as they give a cue or open up, you pounce.
>> Interesting. She’s a feeler. She’s asking her deeper conscience. She doesnt fit in the world, partially like Honest Girl, but this one is floating next to the world (not above).
I love this comment, Yohami. I think you are exactly right, and I learned something from you from this comment. I don’t know this “type,” or a I do, but I don’t know how to “name her,” or what the keys to her puzzle are. Knowing this type helps my game.
I was out with her last night… and told her that a friend of mine suggested that she was a “feeler.”
Yeah… she is otherworldly… that’s why I keep calling her a “dream.”
The other girl is Miss Sincere, not Honest Girl… but yeah. And I had a date with her too yesterday.
You’re right… they have somethings in common. Miss Sincere is all about “protection.” The Siren is a radical artist personality. Not “punk rock” artist. Not edgy. But classical and deep.
>> You don’t get that information by asking directly. Even when the girls are presenting all the info upfront, they wont say the truth, because when they communicate they only say things to manipulate the way in which they are perceived.
Agreed. That book I sent you makes a big deal about how a woman’s primary tool is manipulation, in the way a man’s primary tool is strength (often physical). No judgment. Women learned to manipulate to counter the size difference, it makes sense. And looking at everything a woman does thru that filter… that “she won’t be direct, but she is trying to get you to do something, and she is going to be indirect about it, very often.” Very helpful for me.
>> They dont present facts, but a story, and they are a character. This character must be perceived and understood so you can deal with her, this character is part of the puzzle.
Yeah. I’m trying to get this. A lot of dates this week, so more practice.
>> But you cant ask directly because it breaks the story, breaks the magic, interrupts the flow, asks the wrong side of the brain (the logic side).
I was about to argue here, a bit, but…
>> That said there are ways you can ask for things directly, when it helps the emotional setup – when it shows you’re bold, or when you’re leading to a specific territory.
I think I have some skill here. Direct questions. What might be “interview mode,” but interrupted with my “mastery topics,” areas where I can show off. Also interrupted with a lot of reading her face, telling her what she is reacting to. I use her answers as kickoff points to DHV, thru stories, thru physical stuff, etc.
I ask a lot of questions… I had two dates recently where the girl asked questions (Researcher and Older Chinese), and in both cases I noticed it was unique. Most girls I date never ask any questions, and often know almost nothing about me… including my age.
>> Since asking directly is dumb, how do you get the information?
>> By “swinging your dick” in front of them, or “showing your value”, or being more concrete: talking random stuff, setting the tone, making jokes, doing judgement on things, self amusing yourself, doing conversation, leading into activities, teasing
>> In a way is like sex, you keep going for your own pleasure but that involves handling her body, and her constant moaning tells you what’s working and what’s not
Man, when you teach your stuff… use this “like sex” as an example. This is very helpful for me. I am getting more of this today, as I read this.
I happened to have had sex with a new girl last night… and I was going thru this process. Trying stuff I like, and then looking for her response.
When you see that as an analogy for the seduction, I think it’s easier to understand what you’re teaching here. This comment today is really helping me.
I need to look at the date, like I look at her body during sex… and that “swing your dick.” Of course when I am sexing her, I am not in “interview mode.” I “swing my dick,” literally. So if I can get that in the date as well as in bed, I think I’ll be getting better.
>> What does she respond to, what she doesn’t respond to?
“Give her more of what she wants, less of what she doesn’t want.”
That is dumb-simple advice, Yohami… but deceptively so. That is perfect advice, but not helpful for noobs (or even for me, but I am starting to get it). That line is in my head all the time now. That is an important line, but so simple, it’s hard to understand.
>> “We walked around, looked at some art. ”
>> She moved you away from the art to go for a cafe, which is an indicator that she’s ready to be taken somewhere else (she’s switching venues!). How did you get back at the art place? My guess is that you took her back and she offered some minimal awkward resistance.
This was all in the museum. And you’re right, she was leading in this moment, but I’m leading 99% of the time. She leads like the classic lady… making “suggestions” from time to time. She is so graceful socially, her suggestions are usually exactly on point. She was right in this instance…
But the cafe was the museum cafe.. it wasn’t like we left. It is just off the art, in another room. And there was no resistance to go back to the art… felt like a venue bounce… we did great with the art, it helped the date… that’s an area where I feel comfortable (something you pointed out in another one of my post, that I need/like that sometimes) and where I can show off. But I get what you’re saying.
>> Big place -> smaller place -> you could have taken her to an even more quiet and private environment, not necessarily your place, but a place where she can blossom. She showed you the direction. Add that to her list.
You are exactly right. Quiet is one of the keys to her, she was demonstrating that here. 2nd date, I did a car ride (quiet, personal) to a quiet restaurant. Perfect. Last night, restaurant… was a little noisy, but it worked. Next date, my house, so I can control the noise level.
I am also doubling-down on “silence” when we’re together. It’s working awesome. She’ll comment… and I’ll just stare, and not saying anything. And she lights up. Or I’ll make a point, she’ll stare, and we’ll both go quiet for 2 minutes. She loves it.
>> “Not sexy, but we’re moving her in that direction. ”
>> There’s some stuff missing in the story. You were touching her, she led you to a more quiet place. Why is the setup not sexy yet?
It was sexy. It was beyond intimate. But is wasn’t physical. It wasn’t specifically sexual. It has been sexy since the first moment we looked at each other… but sexy as “intense,” not sexy as “sexual.”
>> Why “not yet”
>> Is it you or her?
It was me. I’ll own that. I was pedestalizing her a bit, more than she needed. She is “special” and “otherworldly” but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t want sex. This is my hangup… you’ve called me out on it before. And you’re right.
I need a little time, sometimes. I call it “getting connected.” I think I’ll get a bit faster as I get more experience. I’m still learning.
I’ll confess some of this in my next story about her…
Okay… pulling this in from my 2nd read of your comments:
>> act like an omega brat and protest that there’s a game at all, and you lose quickly
When I first read this, it made me think of how I have been creating or enabling “struggle” with some girls. I am trying to stop this. We did a good job w/ Firecracker this Fall.
But the Thai girl has cancelled on me a lot in the last month… 3 times, I think. We have a date tonight, and I am 100% sure she’ll show. But each cancellation, I want to get mad, or punish her, or walk away… and I’m trying to see another path.
>> you perform something and state some grander truth of the universe, and she surrenders.
>> You double down and take command.
I love this. With Firecracker this Fall, I said “when are you free” and she said, “never,” and you/I came up w/ “Never = my place, drinks, dinner, 5 PM” — and she cracked, and did exactly that.
I am trying to find the wisdom between adding struggle and this “double down and take command.” I’m trying to find this part… where I “double down,” push my frame, but don’t create more resistance or “negative emotions.”
>> By the way what I tried a few times is ask questions about the ex since that carries all the information you’ll need. They’ll tell you straight away what they wanted, what they didnt get, how the guy was a jerk or a loser for specific reasons, and what you get from there is what kind of man she’d say YES to because she said yes to that guy, plus all the new information
>> Though I stopped asking because the truth is, I already know, I don’t care, and Im more interesting than all their baggage.
Sometimes, Yohami… you “say” what to do. Other times, you “show” what to do. This “I already know, I don’t care, and I’m more interesting than all their baggage” is such a great example of “the guy that gets the girl.” Great demonstration.
>> She’s watching you in slow motion. You’ve got nowhere to hide.
This is THE reason I think I’ve done well with this girl… because I don’t want to hide. I love to stare with her. Eye contact is one of my best strengths. She loves it. And she is a “triple blackbelt” in eye contact… this is where the intensity comes from.
Extended eye contact is exhausting. “Soul gazing” is what my hippy friend calls it. But it as an amazing window into “inner game.” If you can hold it, find a place within you were you can stare, unmasked, “rooted” in that moment, no matter who/what you’re looking at… your inner game is fucking solid.
I am thinking of this crazy homeless lady that was giving me shit in the mall last month. I was in in line, and she was crazy, and talking some shit about me being “white” or whatever… she was talking shit to everyone, but I didn’t look away, as she was close to me. And I didn’t argue, I just stared into her, not aggressively, but like we knew each other… her eye contact was badass, she could go forever… I kept “rooting” deeper, and cleaning myself up so I could hold it, and I’d soften, and bring something like a smile to it… root deeper, relax more, keep going… and I beat her. Ha. She started to smile too. I broke her out of her “game.” Ha. I relate all this to seduction, some how.
If that is too weird… and I think that is weird too… try babies. Babies and little kids can go forever, because they are not self conscious and have very little inner game issues, as they don’t see themselves as “separate” yet. If you can hold eye contact with babies, get them to smile and keep staring… great practice.
Damn, Yohami… more epic advice/theory/example from you here.
These comments have some of your best thoughts in them. I am looking fwd to your blog. I know my dates are nice little case studies for you to show your expertise, and I’m curious to see where you’ll go with your blog.
You are very fucking smart about the girls, man. I’m going to read all this 3 or 4 times this week.
And I want to say thanks again, for all the coaching this Fall. I know my game is moving fwd and I am making moves, often, in some real part because the Sensei is holding me to his standard. I’m grateful.
This is an an incredible education we’re all on. The whole thing. And specifically your part, man.
*clap clap clap*
No problem man, happy fucking :-)