More Sex and The Siren.
I am back and I had my first days of daygame at home this week after my return from Tokyo. And it felt good. It is a type of restart, but not a barebones restart like what I had to do last Fall or in Japan. Unlike those times, I have some warm leads… more than just warm leads, actually.
I came home to some sex with the Siren. And that feels very cool.
I picked her up last Fall (#16 that day) and I was very into her. I actually picked her up on two separate occasions… if I hadn’t seen her again and reopened that girl two days after I first met her, I don’t think I would be telling this story. I got her to date me, and it was good time. And then we had sex in Dec, before she went off to HI and then China. Then I was in Japan. We hadn’t seen each other in almost two months.
Pancake asked me if I did a bunch of messaging to stay in contact with her while I was in Japan, and he is right about that. I did. Not a ton. Her English is very good, but she seems much more shy and brief via text. I would ping her once per week. Usually with a picture or two… sending her “emotions” more than words. (She has since shifted to sending me pictures of herself quite often, which is perfect.)
So I get back, trade some more pics, and set up the date. Last time I saw her she slept over but it’s been a while. I wanted to reconnect before I assumed anything.
I had her meet me at my house. My cats were charming, as usual. I didn’t try to touch her. I made sure she was warm and we went out for an afternoon in the city.
It began with a bus ride. And as we waited, she was telling me how “kind” I am. I gave her a disapproving look, with a hint of a smile. I never let girls call me nice, or sweet, or kind. Never. So I corrected her and told her I was selfish and that I’m only nice to her because I like hanging out with pretty girls. Gave her a big smile. She smiled back, nice spike.
And I told her I’m also “dangerous,” and as we boarded the bus I grabbed her ass. She jumped, reached back and frantically moved my hand away. I am not 100% sure of myself in this territory. This was not altogether different than when I slapped Business Girl’s ass in Tokyo. This is me, experimenting a bit. In this case, we sat down and the moment came and went.
“The caliber of your game will come down to, at what level does the girl start to intimidate you. At what level do you start to get shut down. At what level do you start to give a fuck. At what level does that spiral of abundance slow down?”
— RSD Tyler, from Hotseat at Home
Tyler is talking about something really important here.
Back in December, I really liked this girl. I pedestalized her a bit, for sure. I was curious to see what I’d think of her, post-Japan. And I still really like her. So taking a risk like grabbing her ass is important to me.
I’m not saying this is/is not good game. I am saying I would have done that with another girl, and since I know I have the potential to start to treat this particular girl like a princess, I want to make sure I do the same things with her I might do with other girls. That’s why I did it.
Just because I like this girl more than most is no reason to forget about game.
Like TD’s quote above, we can learn the rules, and be religious about sticking to them, and do very well with that plan. But then we meet some girl, and we think “it’s different,” that “she’s special,” and we lose our nerve, and start to break the rules we know are true… And we lose those girls. And it’s our own fault. And we lose momentum. And the Tornado falls apart.
How you do anything is how you do everything. I am beginning to show some consistency and promise on this path. I want to be aware when some “special allure” might tempt me to forget what I have learned.
This girl is tempting. And she is very “fine,” as in high-quality and rare. And while I love all that and recognize her charms, I know the same lessons apply. Now and always.
In terms of sex, I have been tempted to frame her as a “high-end princess.” To overplay my capacity to be a “gentleman.” But I have not done that. She is special, but she is also “just another girl.” I know what I like. I want to be true to that, true to myself.
So I have been my usual horny, kinky self with the Siren. And she is amazingly turned on and sexually expressive. There is no conflict between a high-end, “fine” girl, and a full-kink sex life. I am so glad I didn’t half-step just because she is a quality girl. Quality girls like kink too.
For instance… I had this lover, years ago, that I also called Siren. Siren is a name I have given to almost all my best lovers (it’s about the intense temptation they represent for me). The “Korean” Siren, was the best sex of my life, still is, she/I were very hot together. I discovered game when I had her in a fuck-buddy status, 2 years of once-a-week sex, amazing, filthy, wonderful sex. The only reason I was able to be with a girl like that at that time of my life, was because we met at work… where I was situationally very alpha (*nod* to Yohami).
I am forever chasing the sex I had with that girl… It was mind blowing. And I always compare how “real” I am being with a new girl, by comparing how I talk and act with the new girl versus how I did with that Korean girl, 12 years ago. I never held back with the Korean.
With that standard in mind, I think I’m doing well. I’m not hiding my dick. I can’t sex-talk this new Siren like I could the Korean (because the new Siren’s English is not nearly as good, and because she is conservative via text), but I am keeping it sexual, I am escalating, and I am going for the kink I love… Her ass (I haven’t fucked it yet, but that is a milestone for me) is getting plenty of attention.
So I took her out. Then back to my place. And after a minute or two… A kiss. Then I dragged her down the hall. No LMR. Naked. Devouring her, my hands and mouth, everywhere.
I’m not certain… I won’t ask… But I think she is coming, and I think she is multi-orgasmic. That is true of all my favorite lovers. She is soaking wet, and moan-moan-moan, and pliant, at all times. I fucked her twice on that date. Once after dinner, and again in the morning. But she was ready all night… She could have been fucked four times, at least. I am not 22 anymore… I am twice that old.
And she is such a passionate girl.
Speaking of sticking to my game plan, my standard MO has been to get a girl naked, do anything I want to the her, and then make her suck my cock to get me hard so I can fuck her. Last time I was with this girl, I was sick, so I fooled around, passed out, and then fucked her in the middle of the night when I woke up hard. This time, I was healthy, and I want to treat her like any other girl, so I made her suck my cock.
And she acted like she had never done it before. Willing, but humble about it. She was qualifying herself, kept asking for feedback, etc. She did not seem pro, but she did a great job. I told her so. And my increasingly hard cock told the real story.
So while we’re wondering about her sexual history (I haven’t asked her much about it), I can tell you she is 28. I wasn’t sure, but would have guessed between 27-29. That night, post sex, she seemed like she wanted to confess her age. So she did. I told her I had guessed as much. She qualified about that too. I told her I only like teenagers, but I was having fun, so she could stay. She laughed. She never asked my age.
And as we laid in bed, before sleep, we were talking about naps, and I started to future-project about coming over to her apartment to nap with her… And she got serious. She told me that her ex-BF moved in with her while I was in Japan. He has been in the background of her/my relationship since our first date. She said he moved in (I think that’s what she said??), and that she broke up with him again, and he left some of his stuff in her place. This was another confession from her that night.
To be honest, I don’t care about her/his relationship. As all this came out after sex that night, and it was our 2nd night together, I’m not at all threatened. I told her I know she/he have a long history, that we don’t know each other well, that I’m not trying to put her in a cage. That’s all true. I’m not trying to wife her up. And I am trying to fuck other girls, but I didn’t tell her that. I don’t plan to.
And I liked all these confessions, as they were all a type of qualification. She is invested and investing. The girl had a very good night with me. She was into it. So I took all of this as signs that she and I are increasingly solid. I have another date with her tomorrow, she does feel solid.
Good. I like her.
And we had a beautiful night. Sleeping very close. My overly-hot body making us sweat as we lay together. The cats, coming and going. She looked very comfortable.
And her body… this girl is 5’6″, and very, very skinny. Her wrists are barely bigger around than a golf ball. Yet she is soft. Very soft, I don’t know how she does it. Nearly flat chested, which is fine with me… I’m an ass man.
She has the same body as the Russian girls that are dominating western porn tubes these days. She’s not that tall, but she’s so thin that she looks tall. And the contrast of her hips with her skinny legs and small waist… Makes her seem almost curvy, even though at 5’6″ I bet she is just barely 100 lbs. And creamy skin from head to toe. No makeup. And thick dark hair… It’s all over my house and scattered throughout my sheets.
And my favorite part about this story… she is “recurring revenue” from the work I did in December.
No, that is too cold. It’s warmer and better than that.
I feel like I’ve built three distinct Girl Tornados in the last 5 months. And had sex from all of them. But this is the first time I did not have a tornado going (I’m just now starting to work on post-Japan daygame and plate spinning) and the sex was there anyway, with very little work.
I came back from Japan and she was still here. Still interested. She is my favorite girl from last year, and probably better than anything I had going in Japan. I did keep the thread alive while I was there, but I didn’t have to jump-start a Tornado this time to get laid. I just walked into friendly territory, to one of my favorite girls I’ve ever dated, no bullshit or struggle… A rich experience.
A nice date. And great sex. That multi-orgasmic profile. The wettest pussy. A clit-girl, but very into the penetration, particularly intense as I would come. The look in her eyes… wow.
That morning, I wanted to get on with my day. I had dinner plans with my buddy Natural and work to do. I made her get out of bed. We showered together. She said she’s never seen a man shave before.
I have an extra toothbrush, but I didn’t offer it to her, as I don’t want to have to move it around depending on who is in my bed… I know LTRs well enough to know, don’t give up any territory you don’t have to.
We took the train downtown together. She got off first… And looked back to wave once more before she climbed the stairs up to daylight. I stared at her, gave her a crooked smile. Watched her hips rock around atop her skinny legs. Ummm.
I know pickup is cool. And new notches are cool as fuck. And SDLs and all that. But coming home to a girl that likes you, that wants more of you, especially a high-quality girl like this one… Felt fucking cool. Validating, yes. And also physically and emotionally satisfying.
Not all of daygame is like this… but sometimes, you get what you need.
In some ways, this is the coolest story I think I’ve ever told about my daygame adventures.
I bow to The Siren. For who she is, yes. For the true quality she adds to my life. And also for what she shows me about myself.
Good experience, Nash. Nice job.
” I was situationally very alpha”
What you could do by putting situational alpha and Game together…
“I want to make sure I do the same things with her I might do with other girls”
“her ex-BF moved in with her”
Shuffling men, favourite female activity.
“She said she’s never seen a man shave before.”
Another first timer.
“In some ways, this is the coolest story I think I’ve ever told about my daygame adventures.”
>> “She said she’s never seen a man shave before.”
>> Another first timer.
I know… I didn’t say anything about it, I just started shaving and she volunteered this bit.
And then the blowjob… she either has very, very little experience or she is an incredible actress. It may not have been her first blowjob… but it seemed like it. I liked it, but not because she seemed like she knew was she was doing.
And you have me convinced these girls are always bullshitting me about their experience. And I know I’m naive, so a lot of the time I would assume you’re right. But this girl had very little incentive, either time, to overplay her inexperience in those areas.
Who knows… I’m seeing her in a few hours and looking forward to it.
“This time, I was healthy, and I want to treat her like any other girl, so I made her suck my cock.”
“And you have me convinced these girls are always bullshitting me about their experience.”
again, that’s one area where i think yohami is too bitter and jaded — and maybe that’s simply because he hasn’t spent enough time in europe (or asia?). compare how yohami assumes all girls are sluts with how tom and krauser don’t. they have had lots of experiences with virginal types.
“yohami is too bitter and jaded”
There’s nothing bitter or jaded about it. That’s projection. Better ask yourself why you think that approaching a girl to fuck her, and thinking she’s the kind of the girl who will fuck you, means being “bitter and jaded”. Something is going on there.
My reality is that thinking she’ll fuck me makes me playful and happy.
Also girls lying about their experience etc – girls lie about everything all the time. Everything about female comunication is about framing and exaggeration. Look at make up, clothing, etc. All energy is spent in appareance and saleskill, most communication in their own groups is spent passing judgement and ranking themselves – putting all agency in others and casting themselves as the morally superior / victim. Very rarely you’ll find a girl with morals based on principles and not self survival instinct.
This is not something to be jaded about – this is what is.
When women talk to you, the message is that they want you to feel in a certain way and act in a certain way towards them. They are also always trying to determine where you stand in the rank of men and in the rank of the tribe, and you’ll be treated very, very differently depending on where they see you.
Red pill 101.
Dont be bitter. Put chocolate on it.
I agree with almost everything you say here… and it was the book Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man that brought this home for me.
And I was in bed with this same girl again this afternoon… and we had a fascinating conversation about how she’s “not that kind of girl” regarding this hot professor at her school. I played with her on that topic, messing with her definitions of “good” and “bad” and “nice” etc, and then watched her try to change positions to fit the new definitions.
She is adorable. Again, I feel like saying “I love you” all the time with this one.
And yet… manipulation is the #1 tool for women, just as physical strength is the #1 tool for men. No judgment… this is what it is. Doesn’t make me like her less.
The question is not “if” women are forever trying to keep themselves in the best possible light and most flexible position… I am convinced that is a fact… the question is only what we as players do with that knowledge.
“yohami assumes all girls are sluts with how tom and krauser don’t.”
Most girls do want to have sex with me
>> “And you have me convinced these girls are always bullshitting me about their experience.”
>> not always.
>> again, that’s one area where i think yohami is too bitter and jaded
And I am with you here, somewhat Riv. Sometimes, the girls are in the ballpark of “honest” when they say something. Sometimes, that is true.
I don’t think Yohami’s point is that “all girls are sluts.” But I do think his position that “this is about sex” is correct more times than not.
And we are holding ourselves back by thinking that is not true. And we are maintaining the Madonna/Whore narrative when we assume girls need “three dates” or want to be monogamous. And we are keeping the girls, and ourselves” from having more robust sex lives, when we underestimate a woman’s drive or “morality,” or overplay our own need to be “nice guys.”
And I do think women will dramatically downplay their sexual experience, because in most times/places, that will serve them… again, because there is so much emphasis on the Madonna/Whore mindset, in both men and women.
For you and I… I think the old rule is handy:
— She has 3X the experience she says she has
— He has 1/2 the experience he says he has
This is true.
So she says she’s had “1 other lay in her life,” Yohami thinks she fucked two or three buses full of guys (in the same night, filmed it herself, sold the pics to the highest bidder), and the truth is… she has fucked 5 guys, dreams about a DP, loves being choked, and once masturbated to the idea of… fucking three buses full of guys in one night.
Something like that.
>> yohami assumes all girls are sluts
A breakthru for me (also from that book Practical Female Psych) was this:
— True/False: Most men want a MFF threesome
I think the answer is true. Easy to imagine.
— True/False: Most women “have considered” a MMF threesome?
— And… the DP?
I’m not certain every girls wants the DP. Or has had it already. But what if that were true? What if you knew for a fact that were true. Could you handle it? What if your favorite girls gets off to the idea of being “air tight?” Even if she won’t ever had 3 dicks in her at once, what if the idea makes her hot?
I don’t ever want to be in a MMF 3some. It’s not for me. I want to be the only dick in the room when I’m with a girl. However, the “DP test” was very liberating to me. Assuming every girl either has, or wants, the DP… helped break me out of the “nice girl” fantasy.
There is no such thing as a “nice girl.” And that is a good thing, from my POV.
“yohami assumes all girls are sluts with how tom and krauser don’t. they have had lots of experiences with virginal types.”
Check this out…
“There are two games going on in parallel: Some players fuck habitual sluts, and some players fuck good girls on their occasional indiscretion.”
— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQVNJtDY1TQ 33:50
He’s basically wrong.
“good girls on their occasional indiscretion.”
Define good girls, because “a good girl who fucks womanizers” doesn’t work.
Madona / whore is male made. It doesn’t help to divide the world in categories when the categories don’t exist. So instead look at the world and at what is going on.
Madona / whore is not a definition of what is, but a description of male preference.
Men prefer virgins girls over sluts. Where virgin is a girl who has never had sex with another man and is inexperienced, vs a slut who has sex several times a day with multiple men. One triggers the man and the man “wants to be good to her”, and “position above herself” as a protector, in other words it triggers the equivalent of female hypergamy in men – it makes the man want to position himself above the woman to lock her hypergamy and lock himself into her, it’s a safe position. The other one, the slut, doesn’t make you feel safe but threatened, you’re competing against multiple men, multiple sperm, the woman is lower value to you as it’s a less safe recipient for your sperm. Even reading Nash story about the pro for example gives me a discomfort. This is gut stuff. Base biology. Male preference.
But the male preference is still full of shit because men want to fuck all the women – all the virgins, all the “best” ones, I know I do – without committing to anyone because there’s more pussy to be explored, and men want to turn a virginal into an experienced “whore” who can please him good. So this is the equivalent of women wanting alphas to turn them into betas. Always chasing the top dog to make him a pet dog. Men chase virgins to turn them into whores. Look at yourself. We’re all beasts.
So recognize what is and how is mismatches with reality.
Men prefer virginal – that’s a preference, you put the word “good” on it, then look at the whore and put “bad” on it, then create a (false) dichotomy on WOMEN like they are themselves classified in good and bad, when this dichotomy is about what you like, and not about what they are.
A “good girl who fucks players”. Think about it. “Hey Im a virginal good girl, I had sex with Yohami who fucked me real good then dumped me, then I fucked Krauser and Tom, they were gentlemen! hi Nash and Riv how are you doing? Pancake are you having a good day?”
So what is in the other side? what is in the actual reality?
Girls who are very promiscuous and girls who are less.
Girls who are more crazy and girls who are more sane.
Girls who are more malignant in their intent and girls who are less.
Girls who are more takers, girls who are more nurturing.
Girls who are smarter, girls who are more dumb.
Girls who are more adventurous, girls who are more conventional.
All of them as long they are heterosexual will chose an alpha before a beta, will fuck an alpha with not strings attached as long as the situation is a net gain for her, is a girl you can fuck, if you’re the kind of man she will fuck, and you rub her the right way.
But in the multiple combinations of traits and overlaps, you’ll have a combination where girls are crazier, more takers, highly promiscuous, and “bad” (unless that’s what you like) and girls who are more sane, nurturing, less promiscuous, who are “good” (if that’s what you like)
The “sane nurturing less promiscuous girl who is relationship oriented” will tend to fuck very well validated alphas in her social circle after some sort of investment has been secured, basically, she’ll try to relationship-game the alpha in her group, and block any random player that wants her pussy.
The “crazier adventurous more promiscuous girl” will be open to different kind of men and experiences as long as they make her feel good, will be welcoming new men and new experiences.
Which of these are more likely to say YES to you when you approach her on the street because you want to fuck her?
Which of these is more likely to require that you’re in a social group and have validation that she can test before interacting with you in a sexual courtship?
I bring this up because the natural disgust of betas for alphas creates this illusion that the alphas are fucking the sluts, when in the natural progression of things, all the good girls are pinning for the alphas, and all the sluts who want experience open so wide that they can take cock from the social rejects who were unable to build a castle and are now wandering the streets at day and night.
Men rank themselves, the kind of girl you fuck is yet another thing we rank ourselves on. So when Krauser says “there are two kinds of game” he’s doing alpha shaming and slut shaming in one line. Translation: The girls that go out at night are dirty sluts, and the players fucking them are low value because they fuck low value girls. But the girls at day are virginal girls, high value, so me Krauser and daygame guys are fucking better quality girls, so Krauser is better than night game players!
Except, you know, that “good girl” is fucking Krauser. Of all people. She fucks a guy she meets on the street, says a couple lines he’s been saying to other girls all morning, and she decides that’s the cock she wants inside. That’s pretty virginal behavior. That’s untouched nature. That’s just virtue. Top that motherfuckers.
>> and men want to turn a virginal into an experienced “whore” who can please him good. So this is the equivalent of women wanting alphas to turn them into betas. Always chasing the top dog to make him a pet dog. Men chase virgins to turn them into whores. Look at yourself. We’re all beasts.
This is great.
>> The “sane nurturing less promiscuous girl who is relationship oriented” will tend to fuck very well validated alphas in her social circle after some sort of investment has been secured, basically, she’ll try to relationship-game the alpha in her group, and block any random player that wants her pussy.
>> all the good girls are pinning for the alphas
I agree, but I also know time is not static. Things move on… and old things get stale. Everyone needs fresh air.
So “good girl” goes to work, and the gym, and has dinner in a big group of friends on Saturday nights. That’s her world. There are alphas and betas in her life. And if the alphas are taken, and she’s rejected the betas… now she is “unsatisfied,” just like the rest of us. Of course she dreams of something better.
So yes, she wants a “top guy.” And she meets a daygamer, and she has a sneaking suspicion that he want to fuck her. But every guy she’s met since she was 12 wanted to fuck her, so that goes almost unnoticed… it’s assumed.
If the daygamer tried to take her home that minute, yes… if she agrees, she is likely the “crazier adventurous more promiscuous girl.” True. Unless he young, or you caught her on the first day away from her mom.
But if he takes her number… and seems like a cool guy to her… because he has lots of swagger, this is “easy” for him, he assumes she wants him, and she does, because in many/most areas of his life, he is a top guy… if he asks her out later, this could be her… thinking she is getting a shot a “top guy.” And if she does the dance and waits 3 dates (or makes him wait), maybe she is fucking a daygamer AND is the “sane nurturing less promiscuous girl who is relationship oriented” type.
She needed fresh air. She felt like life never gives her what she wants. He comes along… wow, it’s what she was hoping for all along.
Back in her social circle, that alpha is still fucking someone else, and she still thinks the betas are gross orbiters… her social circle is stale. “What else” is her best option, and here I am on the sidewalk.
It is funny to watch you go back and forth from “every girl wants it, or she wouldn’t be talking to you” (which I believe you are right about) vs “if she fucks you, she’s a crazy, promiscuous girl” (if she does it fast, or outside of social circle).
The ideas are not incompatible, but it’s fun to watch you switch perspectives.
>> So when Krauser says “there are two kinds of game” he’s doing alpha shaming and slut shaming in one line. Translation: The girls that go out at night are dirty sluts, and the players fucking them are low value because they fuck low value girls. But the girls at day are virginal girls, high value, so me Krauser and daygame guys are fucking better quality girls, so Krauser is better than night game players!
Krauser is applying both “types of girls” to daygame. He is saying both types of girls “sane/chaste” vs “crazy/adventurous” are available via daygame… of course he is correct… because all types of girls have to walk around during the day.
And his point is about daygamers wanting to have both kinds of girls…
>> But the male preference is still full of shit because men want to fuck all the women
I bet Krauser would agree.
And the talk I pulled that quote from is about them trying to game girls in Eastern Europe, where they believe most of the girls are sane/hardworking/loyal/k-type… and they are looking for fast sex, but will date and play the “BF” role because they think those “nice” girls are worth the effort.
They can meet both sane and wild on the street. But they will have different paths/timelines if they want to fuck different types of girls.
One trend I am seeing, however, is that Stealth is right.. for DAYGAMERS, a lot of the sex is available right in that second, right fucking now, to bounce her back, or SDL. I am beginning to agree, that is true. I think the structure of daygame leads to more “crazy/adventure” girls than to “sane/loyal” ones.
I think that is where most of a daygamers sex will come from… sheer number of notches is what I mean here.
However… I think that for most men, daygame is still a better path to a sane/loyal girlfriend than most of his other options. Becoming situationally alpha is great, and he should do that, but his “pool” will get stale too, so hunting via daygame is not a bad idea… in addition to his being top of his niche.
And then… if he wants “sane/loyal” girls, he should not expect sex on the same date. If she fucks hims same-day… she is likely not a “nice” girl, and maybe we should believe her “you’re the first!” stories less often. But if she does the “dance,” and waits 3+ dates, to give her a chance to see you prove that you really are a top guy, better than her social circle, truly her best option after careful consideration…. maybe she is sane/good, even (god forbid!) you met her via daygame.
You want to maximize SEX. Aim for SDL, train for it, and calibrate to the girl, allowing for a “3 date model” when fast-sex is not an option.
You want a “wife material” and a mother for your kids… screen for girls that screen. Look for girls that screen you heavily, that aren’t that adventurous, wont fuck you that minute, just because you asked. Screen for girls that make you wait, don’t blow them off. Give them time to “k-select” you.
“Top that motherfuckers.” : ]
Im not switching perspectives, Im exploring that “bad girl good girl” dichotomy that I no longer have, because it doesnt match the world.
“Everyone needs fresh air.”
You’re not offering air, you’re offering sex.
“she meets a daygamer, and she has a sneaking suspicion that he want to fuck her.”
Haha no. Full stop. She knows 100% sure that you want to fuck her. This is something where you don’t have to listen to me – ask women. She knows 100% that you want to fuck her, and she’s going along because she sees the possibility that it might happen, if you pass the screening process (puzzle). There’s no sneaking suspicion, that’s coming from fantasy land
“But every guy she’s met since she was 12 wanted to fuck her, so that goes almost unnoticed… it’s assumed.”
Fantasy land bro.
“But if he takes her number…”
If she gives you her number – in that moment, she’s saying yes to sex, she can see it happening, her body is saying yes. What happens in the next iterations will determine if she does or not, but at that point, it’s a yes to sex.
“maybe she is fucking a daygamer AND is the “sane nurturing less promiscuous girl who is relationship oriented” type.”
Here’s where you have to define “good girl” which is why I attempt Riv to do, and now you. What is a good girl? is a girl cheating on the boyfriend, good? a girl having sex with a man without asking to be in a committed monogamy relationship, good? what is good. Define that then we can have principles.
But yes – there is overlap, there are many nurturing girls who are major sluts, for example the first girl “Cein” in that twitter chat that I sent you, she’s relationship oriented, nurturing – AND a slut. What is a slut? a woman who’ll have sex with a man who she is not in a committed relationship with.
“She needed fresh air.”
“She felt like life never gives her what she wants. He comes along… wow, it’s what she was hoping for all along.”
This is you romantizing things. There’s no need to do so. You’re offering sex, she’s taking the offer.
“here I am on the sidewalk.”
That is male fantasy that doesnt match female reality.
“every girl wants it, or she wouldn’t be talking to you”
Every girl wants it, but not every girl wants it with you. The one talking to you wants it with you, as long as you go through the screening process and win.
“if she fucks you, she’s a crazy, promiscuous girl”
I made the division of the two groups to match your (Riv’s?) madonna / whore dichotomy, after explaining it doesnt exist. There are not two groups, one full of crazies and other full of sanes. There are particular traits that go from 0 to 100 and then there are so many different kind of combinations and overlaps, that instead of going with a fixed formula, Im advising “just look at the woman in front of you” because her puzzle will be unique.
So no, “if she fucks you she’s crazy”, no. If you are crazy and she fucks you, yes. If you’re banging her in 15 min, then she’s promiscuous, etc. Whatever key you use to solve her puzzle – that says who she is.
If you stop her on the street and she fucks you in under two hours, then she’s the kind of girl who will fuck a stranger in under two hours (she’ll make a point to say that’s not the case, every time). Likewise if you fuck a girl who has a boyfriend / husband, then she’s a girl who will cheat on her boyfriends and husbands. The way she allows / wants you to fuck her matches who she is.
Any woman you stop on the street and she says yes to that approach – is a woman who fucks random men – because that man is you.
It’s not about dichotomies: you’re introducing the filtering mechanism.
“The ideas are not incompatible, but it’s fun to watch you switch perspectives.”
It aint happening ;-)
“They can meet both sane and wild on the street. But they will have different paths/timelines if they want to fuck different types of girls.”
Got it, fair enough.
“I think the structure of daygame leads to more “crazy/adventure” girls than to “sane/loyal” ones.”
It’s because you’re stopping a girl and offering dick while you’re on the sidewalk. There’s a specific kind of girl who will say yes to that. You’re offering a product, it caters to a niche.
You’re introducing the filtering mechanism.
“Becoming situationally alpha is great, and he should do that, but his “pool” will get stale too”
Yes. When I advocate that guys become situational alphas is so they get into a position where they can learn Game in a natural way, downhill, instead of uphill, from the top position instead of from the bottom, as a hot girl, instead of as a fat girl. When / if you develop natural game then it doesnt matter what you do, you can approach girls during day, or any other time, it will be different than what you’re doing as Daygame now, since it’s not a “funnel” and comes from a different place. It’s more similar to talking to your girl tornado girls, which is why I call it girl tornado game.
“And then… if he wants “sane/loyal” girls, he should not expect sex on the same date. ”
That’s the conundrum. You are stopping girls on the street because you want to fuck them. The ones who say yes want to have sex and are on a sexual peak. If then you switch to LTR courtship you’re not delivering on the product you offered. So. If you go direct (daygame is direct) then you must be consistent and go for the kill, which is what she thought you would do and where she set the bar. She said YES to that opportunity to jump on your bones, so deliver the bone.
I was mentioning this in comments long ago and saying that with daygame you have very little wiggle room so it has to be all on point.
“If she fucks hims same-day… she is likely not a “nice” girl”
Define nice – it really doesn’t mean anything until you make a definition for it. I fucked plenty of nice, very nice girls on day one. I also had a couple of LTRs with very nasty girls. So what does the word mean – to you?
“But if she does the “dance,” and waits 3+ dates, to give her a chance to see you prove that you really are a top guy, better than her social circle, truly her best option after careful consideration…. ”
3 or 10 dates doesn’t mean anything – it only measures the time that it took YOU to arouse her. To qualify HER the question is not if she made you wait, but what did she made you give in exchange for the sex. If you didn’t have to marry her, commit to her, enter a monogamy, then this is still casual sex non strings attached and she’s probably doing this with more than one man at a time – as your current successes have shown you. All girls with boyfriends or boy tornados of some sort.
“You want a “wife material” and a mother for your kids… screen for girls that screen.”
You’re putting yourself in a complicated situation if you’re screening for wife while approaching 35 girls because you’re horny.
“Look for girls that screen you heavily, that aren’t that adventurous, wont fuck you that minute, just because you asked.”
Most of these are the girls who will refuse the approach.
By the way man, the things you are saying about daygame are just as true of Night game, bars clubs and streets. There are some difference in that ‘everyone’ is out to get sex, so it’s like daygame on steroids, a lot easy in some key points, but I get it doesn’t match everyone’s taste.
“I know pickup is cool. And new notches are cool as fuck. And SDLs and all that. But coming home to a girl that likes you, that wants more of you, especially a high-quality girl like this one… Felt fucking cool. Validating, yes. And also physically and emotionally satisfying. Not all of daygame is like this… but sometimes, you get what you need. In some ways, this is the coolest story I think I’ve ever told about my daygame adventures.”
YEAH YEAH YEAH.
love it, my man. you are building your dream, taking in the teachings from a variety of experts, and writing about it with great detail and honest and talent. this is EXCELLENT learning material for all the rest of us.
Thank you very much, man.
I wrote that rejections/mistakes/failures post to balance ones like this one. Wholeness. But that means the “good” part too.
And I have really been enjoying the writing… I don’t read much anymore… I spend that time writing. Feels really good. I know you know what I mean.
Thanks again, brother. *bow*
yohami, every time nash or i mention a girl who has little sexual experience, you immediately assume she is lying and scheming.
Nope. It’s not “a girl who las little sexual experience” but a girl having sex with a Player who hasnt offered her a strings attached long term relationship commitment. She’s fucking a player. Do the math.
yes, and you make a great point with this comment — if i approach her with my hard dick out, and she responds positively, then SHE WANTS HARD DICK, and i shouldn’t then put my dick back in my pants and offer her dinner and a LTR. this is an excellent, excellent point. she is responding to the alpha male with the hard dick.
however, that is what she wants now, perfect, beautiful, but she can still be historically inexperienced, right? i mean, it could very well be that she has finally met a real man — me, or nash, or you — who is not afraid to whip out his cock, but it could be a new experience for her. maybe she has been looking for this man but wasn’t able to find him before.
that’s all i am saying.
“she can still be historically inexperienced, right?”
Yes sure, just statistically rare depending on age and other factors. However most girls will say that they never do *this* thing they are doing with you, have never done, ever, they swear, first timer! they find things to bring up that have never happened before, which is funny. Even the professional Nash made squirt had to bring up that none of her other concurrent 7 lovers would make her squirt like that. It’s just part of their dance – making you feel like you’re the one – it makes you invest more, try to secure them, which is exactly the point of that line of dialogue.
In my case I heard so, so, so many times “this never happens” that I just laugh remembering, because I know it happened all the time.
But sure there are a lot of inexperienced girls out there. If they are fucking with you, a Player, they wont remain inexperienced for long – they want to rack up the experience.
Then there are other girls, more relationship oriented who wont have sex unless they are in a monogamous committed relationship, and wounldn’t fuck mr. alpha even if he was able to pull all the moves on her. These girls are rare nowadays (hookup culture), a couple of the girlfriends that I had when I was mr. beta would fit in that category, both virgins, both required a long courtship. I wouldn’t have been able to just fuck them on first date back then when they were 19 years old and were looking for a male unicorn to give them the world.
10 years later, you betcha they are all SDL material, if they find the right man on the right day.
>> Even the professional Nash made squirt had to bring up that none of her other concurrent 7 lovers would make her squirt like that. It’s just part of their dance –
Yohami… I’m fucking special, man! I’m special!!! That was all me!!
Hahaha. Ahhh… what a crazy ride this is.
* And just because she had 7 different concurrent lovers, and one was a “dom” that she met online, and she was ready to fuck me on the first date, and had already fucked another guy that day, and brought me back to the hotel that he paid for, where there were already condoms on the nightstand… doesn’t mean she was “pro,” okay. She was a nice girl, man. Just a simple girl, until she met ME! The player! I seduced the hell out of that girl. #bigpowers
^ All joking aside… I had a great time with the “pro.” Even if Yohami had to “wash his eyes” after reading that FR. Good experience… and she was… OMFG hot. *whew* What a body.
Speaking of female nature, just saw this on FB. It’s perfect.
The dog is of course the beta following every lead to a fault, but never being “a bad dog” and taking initiative.
“There are two games going on in parallel: Some players fuck habitual sluts, and some players fuck good girls on their occasional indiscretion.” -Krauser
great find, nash.
i think yohami is adding value when he talks about how to make us more alpha and manly and how to figure out her puzzle, but when it comes to his take on women, we will have to agree to disagree.
What do you disagree on?
I think Yohami is correct in many ways… and again when he says it’s not either or, it’s a sprectrum of slut to good… etc. Yes, of course that is correct.
>> I made the division of the two groups to match your (Riv’s?) madonna / whore dichotomy, after explaining it doesnt exist.
Here… I don’t agree with the way Yohami talks about Madonna/Whore.
I agree… the “black or white” distinction doesn’t exist. I agree. It’s a spectrum.
However, the “mindset” exists for both men and women, and we all make moves based on that mindset. Madonna/Whore is a “standard,” not two different women (one you meet in social circle, the other out daygaming… no, of course not).
So men absolutely do think of women as EITHER virgins (nice) or sluts (bad). I am of the opinion these days “there is not such thing as a nice girl” (and by that I mean her level of experience, or her kinkiness, or her deviousness and manipulation), but I still use nice/bad as a type of shorthand.
And women also think about themselves in the Madonna/Whore standard… and maybe more so about other women.
A woman has two things to consider in this case: Her sex drive and her reputation.
So she is “dishonest” quite often, she bullshits about her experiences or her fantasies… because lying, and acting like “Madonna,” doesn’t cost her much. She can still take care of her sexual needs and “whore” around if she wants to, but she has to hide it, or both men and women will consider her “one of the bad ones.”
So the Madonna/Whore things does exist… as a false standard, but one with tremendous influence, and one that matches biology as well.
I want to marry a “nice” one, maybe because I am insecure about how many dicks have been in her, but more so… as I don’t want to raise another man’s kid (in theory). And “whores” can get me sick. From her POV, “nice girls” are taken care of and whores die in cold buildings.
That standard is real and important.
Even if there is not such thing as a “nice girl.” There are some inexperienced ones… but not as inexperienced as they would have us believe.
“It’s a spectrum”
Then we agree. My point is against the dichotomy, but not even because it’s an artificial grouping – but because the other things that are grouped in it.
By dividing the large group of women in whores and madonnas, you put all the bad attributes in one and all the good attributes in another, which creates the illusion of an asexual pristine virgin full of virtue and awesome character traits, who will love beta courtship – vs a raw disgusting acid squirting whore who spits semen as she talks and you must fuck with seven condoms, would steal your money and mess up with your brain (whore). I am making these up, but that’s the result of the dichotomy. The dichotomy is an illusion, it leads to pedestalization, it makes you interact with women not in the basis of what they are, which you can get experienced on, but on the basis of your illusions, which you can chase forever.
All the girls that could classify as madonna and whore because of their level of sexual activity, would still pick the alpha before the beta, fuck the same man, respond equally well to the same courtship dance, fuck quickly, etc, as long as they are getting what they want. What they want is a different mix of different things for every girl. You cant, channeling Rivelino / Todd, give “comfort” to the inexperienced one and “value” (whatever the fuck that means in this context) to the whore and just fuck them. If that’s how this worked, you wouldnt have a blog and I woundnt be talking about this subject, there wouldnt be no Game.
So not only there’s a spectrum, but the spectrum is meaningless until you introduce the whole set of variables. Knowing that the girl is promiscuous (whore) doesnt mean shit and doesn’t mean you can fuck her. You’ll be put to test. Knowing that the girls is more virginal (madona) doesn’t mean you can fuck her by doing a slowed down dance. This is not how this works.