Overgaming the Yes Girl || Janka’s Comments
I had a date last night… with a woman. Yes to that.
It’s been a while since I had a date to talk about. It’s been a thirsty season. I’ve been putting in my sets, with little to show. One of the most recent sets, was a charming white girl from daygame earlier this week.
I am usually hell bent on finding time w/ Asian girls, but when this particular white girl was bouncing down the sidewalk, I popped her open.
She was… lovely. Short girl. Straight, pretty blonde hair. Nice style, with a pink sweater, jeans, and tan lace-up boots. I’m guessing 27-30?
I am into “the story” part of my stack right now – really working on that skill. The story with this one, was “Hey… you caught my eye… you have this girly pink sweater.. and these army boots… I love the contrast.” She loved it. Nice, easy chat. I told her I wanted to see her again, and she gave me the classic “maybe” in response.
What I did differently here, if anything, was I did the number close in a series of commands (once I got the “maybe”). “Okay, get out your phone.” She did. I gave her my number, told her to call it. She did. I told her I’d msg her, and she bounced off.
That was a good set, I liked it… but I’m getting a lot of sets that *feel* that good, and go nowhere. I could tell this one was different, as soon as the texting started…
NASH: Hey Girl. Fun to meet you today. Are you 5 ft tall?
HER: Well hey there. Fun meeting you too. And that’s the last time I wear that outfit, stealin inches from me, 5’2″ : ) And u, hmmm… 5’7″??
I assume she’s teasing me back there… I’m over 5’10.” I ignored that.
NASH: 5’2″, ha! All the 5’0″ girls say that.
NASH: It’s cool, Lady. Tiny is cute.
HER: teehee, alright cool : )
Those were the opening shots. The thing that I noticed… nice, long, jokey response from her. That, is investment, something I’m not getting from most girls. This is her showing she’s a Yes girl. Thank you, Baby Jesus.
She went on to give me multiple msgs on that thread. I stayed quiet, and then I asked her out a day or so later. She said she might have plans of some kind… but was quick to tell me she was free and my plan worked for her. “Cool,” I said. “Cool, see you there,” she said.
It was now Friday night, 7:30, at this gallery/bar (which is a great place for dates). I was strolling around, looking at the art and she was a few minutes late. She looked… fantastic. Cuter than on the street. We got drinks. We talked art… some of which is a DHV for me, as I am an artist and know a lot about art/painting.
I teased her. A lot. Not all of it was “teases,” a lot was just breaking rapport. I broke rapport 100 times. It started when I suggested she might be from South Dakota (not an especially “cool” state, here in the US). We talked about her ex-BFs, and I kept suggesting she had “less than 100,” which would always make her eyes bug out. She started to keep track of how many “deal breaker” things I was saying. She said when I get to “3,” she was going to leave. I laughed. I told her I wanted to hit at least 7 before the date was over. I pushed her buttons. “P in the V” always got a rise out of her. Ha.
We talked about sex. I got to ask my favorite date question, “How do you like to cum?” She said, “Oh, we’re going there?”, and then told me. She likes to be on top. She’s not into “fingers” (one of the choices I gave her), unless they are her own, and then (I confirmed) just to rub her clit until she cums. (I’m guessing, as she likes to be on top, that is also about being able to stimulate her clit… she’s a clit girl, I bet.) She says she’s only come from oral a couple of times, but that most guys have no idea what they are doing when they go down. I told her going down was a personal favorite of mine. I didn’t ask if she was multi-orgasmic, but I thought about it.
It’s a big space, the gallery, and I got to move her around 100 times. She bought the 2nd round of drinks. Suddenly, it was 10 o clock.
I was planning on ending it there, but she throws out “unless we’re going someplace else,” so I played thru. Took her to a dive bar I know.
On the way to the dive bar, there was a series of funny moments.
She spat at one point, and I didn’t notice, but she confessed she spits a lot. That’s gross to me, and I told her so, light heartedly. I compared her to the old Chinese guys that smoke cigarettes and spit on the street. I asked her why, and she said she has too much saliva. And I said, “Oh, you’re literally the kind of girl that ‘spits it out, doesn’t swallow.'” And she got the reference, went real/sexy on me, told me she LOVES to swallow, it makes it better. And then told me… “I love sucking cock.” Okay. No comment.
And then, I was still teasing her, so I say, “Okay, so on the one hand, you’re moderately attractive, and on the other… you’re a spitter.” And this really got her. It was the “moderately attractive” part. She got a little emotional about that one. And this is where she started saying that she really wasn’t sure that I liked her.
(I have to say… I love the “moderately attractive” bit. I will use that again. I’ve never heard another player use that, and it amazes me how we teach ourselves lines, just but running game and “red lining” it a bit… the lines just come out.)
Did I overgame this girl? Was this perfect? I have no idea. There’s more.
I have lost two girls recently (out of 5-6 girls that would/did date me), by overgaming them. I think I am a bit uncalibrated right now. Not enough game/teasing in the pickup (that was Yad’s comment to me) and then maybe too much via text.
I lost an online date last week because she said she was “on the taller side” and I went for a tease, saying “Are you trying to tell me you have big feet? Like how big? Like beach volleyball player big??” That killed that conversation. Dead. I think that is hysterical, but maybe I need to tone it down? It is a fine line, my friends.
Anyway… in the dive bar… it’s been a pretty long date, 4 hours in, I’m getting tired. We have tons to talk about, we’ve very close, cheek to cheek, touching each other. She is doing some very femmy things and I’m starting to get turned on. At one point, I’m about to tell her one of my personal favorite “femmy poses” a girl can do, and she tells me not to tell her, as if I do, she’ll never do it, just to be stubborn. We’re touching each other a lot, her hands on my knee. And one point, she leans into me, and I could feel her nipple thru her shirt. Hot.
So… I don’t remember what the comment was, but she got fired up again, told me she didn’t want to be insulted all night, and she couldn’t tell if I liked her, and that maybe she should go. I don’t think she was serious about leaving, but the rest seemed sincere.
I dropped the gaming for a minute, looked her in the eyes, told her that I knew she could tell that I liked her. That it was obvious we liked each other. That we shouldn’t have to “overtalk” this stuff.
Soon after, I went in for kiss. She barely avoided it. I just moved on with the conversation. I tried again. Holding her little head in my hands, light kiss.
I think we were both tired at this point. And probably sexually frustrated. There was a lot of struggle going on… like a 2 yr old right before it takes a nap.
We stood up. More fight/love talk between us. Another kiss. I was physically teasing her, getting really close, hands on her chest/neck, but not kissing her. I told her “go slow,” which is a command I like. I got very hot. I got breathy. I told her so.
We left the bar. I walked her toward her apartment for a few blocks. More serious talk. She doesn’t like games. I told her she knew I liked her. We’d kiss again… light kissing.
Regarding overgaming and what to do about it, check this out:
“As you get more bold, you’ll cross the line many times, and it’ll cost you the girl.
“However… the more girls you’re pissing off, the more girls you’re fucking…
“However, I don’t want you to shoot yourself in the foot, so I’m going to share a tip that took me literally years to master. Why? Because it requires a lot of discipline. And, this discipline applies
beyond text game – it applies to all the interactions with a girl.
“And the key is this: NEVER backpedal. Even if you say something too suggestive, aggressive or presumptuous, don’t ever retract it. Throughout the entire courtship process, no matter how short
or long it may be, the women will be testing you and watching for the slightest sense of hypocrisy, incongruence, hesitation, falseness. Confirm her worst fears – that you’re a fraud – and you’ll lose her.
“And, keep in mind, you’re responsible for how she perceives you. The image she constructs of you is the sum total of all the information you reveal… And the surest way to quickly bring down the house is to reverse course on what you said – or hesitate on an action. She’ll quickly realize you’re not the man she thought you were, and her sexual interest in you will plummet. There’s no recovery from such a situation.”
— Paul Janka, from his TextGame PDF
Janka is talking about sexiness in texts here, but I think this applies (like he says) “to all the interactions with a girl.”
For my part… I am crossing the line, and burning opportunities. I know that. Too much theory, not enough practice. I don’t know that I did any damage last night, and I’m sure the rapport breaking was part of why it was a good date. But I like Janka’s point about not retracting what I said. I did go “real” with her when she started to freakout, but I didn’t backpedal. Hmmm.
I feel pretty confident that a better player would have pushed a little harder, and would have sexed her last night. I think that was very possible, sex was very much on the table. I wasn’t trying to close her last night (which might be a problem, on it’s own), but I definitely wasn’t pushing for it, and I think sex was available.
As we ended the date, I walked away, and then came back, told her I wanted “another taste.” Kissed her again, all very light. As I held her, I told her, “still not a proper kiss.” She said, “maybe next time, when it’s not so weird.” I smiled and walked away.
I was buzzing with hormones when I got home. Another beer and a smoke and I passed out.
This morning, I hit her up:
NASH: Good Morning, Girl.
NASH: I have you and your accent in my head today…
NASH: You are a charming girl
HER: Afternoon to ya : )
HER: And that is all very sweet. Thanks for taking me out. It was… interesting : )
HER: But definitely a good time : )
NASH: See… we’re both so sweet.
Here, I was trying to go a little more rapport/chill. The accent thing is actually a small tease (she does have an accent, but for a weird reason). We went back/forth a little more, I wanted to cement things with a little comfort, and avoid any more “tussle” between us.
I am still buzzing about this one. She’s tiny. Grabbing her by her little wrists last night totally got my chemicals going.
I’ll try to get her out Tuesday/Thursday. I’m kind of assuming the close… or at least some serious fooling around. My place. We’ll see. She got me, that one. I like her.
And I’m very thankful for the practice… and to have something fun to show from all the fucking sets!!!!
A date with a cute girl. A makeout. We move the model forward.
excellent field report, my man. my thoughts:
1. it sounds like she is really into you.
2. yeah maybe you did overgame, but that’s how you learn
3. great finding that janka quote — so great to read a field report mixed in with theory — but there is the opposite advice by mystery, where he *does* advocate apologizing, as a moment of intimacy. i don’t remember if that’s in the game or one of his videos.
4. i overgame too. it’s out of insecurity.
>> 2. yeah maybe you did overgame, but that’s how you learn
I remember when I was first learning to “neg.” I was in a bar, and this girl was too hot, out of my league, so I was fucking around, not taking the set seriously. And she says, “blah blah blah… 1o years ago…” and I interrupt and say, “like when you were 8?” And she just stares at me, like a pot of water that’s about to boil. I stare back. I figured I blew it.
And then her friends comes over… huge smile. Friend eye codes my girl. My girl eye codes back. Friend eye codes me… I stare her down and smile. 30 seconds of silent “secret society” talk between the 3 of us… and… the friend walks away, leaving me and the girl alone. That’s when I knew I was pushing it, but hadn’t gone too far.
>> so I say, “Okay, so on the one hand, you’re moderately attractive, and on the other… you’re a spitter.” And this really got her. It was the “moderately attractive” part. She got a little emotional about that one. And this is where she started saying that she really wasn’t sure that I liked her.
“If you’re going to be verbally cold, be physically warm. If you’re gonna be verbally warm, you don’t have to be physically cold, but you don’t have to touch her.”
— Braddack, Love Systems
I was just push on that comment. I was verbally cold, that’s exactly what I was, and didn’t give her any physical warmth… that would have made that comment land.
Yes, you overgamed and could have fucked her that night. Overgamed is the wrong word. You are not reading HER. The missing piece here is this:
She’s screening if she wants to have sex with you. From what you write here she was ready, multiple times.
Girls dont say they love to suck cock and swallow sperm to men they dont intend to suck cock’s from. She’s giving you plenty of terrain to move forward, which you miss by doing push pulls and doing game jerkoffs.
She’s not an adversary, she’s there to fuck you.
Even the day. Going out on a friday – she could have gone out with every other guy who she has in her phone, she went out with you, talked about sex, hinted about going somewhere else, talked about sucking cock and swallowing sperm, and what do you do, fight.
But for next time, next girl, get in your head that she’s there to see if she wants to fuck you. All the time and energy she spends on you she’s giving you opportunities to advance and take her. Not taking these opportunities and not moving forward disqualifies you. You’re not there to chit chat and tease, you’re there to put your dick inside of her.
Or, you’re not there to Game, you’re there to fuck. She was.
The text game was very lame so if she went on a date with you on a friday she wanted dick.
She says “I love sucking cock”
She’s inviting you. What do you respond:
“You’re moderately attractive”
What the fuck is this? I mean if you spank her and get her out of there and fuck her in the restroom then it’s all fine, you can get away with being a jerk. But she opens a highway for you to take her, and you circle around doing negs?
She puts her breasts into you, and you say something insulting.
You’re ready to call it a night, but she wants to go “somewhere else”
Dude. Get laid.
“Im not sure if you like me” translates to:
“Im giving you opportunities to fuck me and you are not taking them, why”
She’ll evaluate some and determine if the reason is you’re a creep, gay, or if you have issues.
Only if you tease the shit out of her (teasing meaning, putting what she wants in front of her and then not giving it) she’ll put up with mistreatment.
What I see with this angle of overgaming is a lack of understanding of what the push pull and negs are.
Negs are valuable because they let you establish a frame where you are the authority and the commanding frame. Negs are your tool for setting borders. Girls love men with authority, so when you present yourself as that man, they will try to submit to you and please you.
When they submit to you and please you, then your job is to reward that behavior by accepting her and validating her. You validate her submission and neg her brattiness. You neg her down anytime she’s pulling a power hand on you, and you’re sweet and generous when she’s rubbing her nipples in you. And you’re confident the whole time.
What you dont do is to neg her so she shows submission, and then neg her again when she shows submission. You dont neg her to get into sexual territory, and neg her again when she goes into sexual territory. You are the one leading the frame, your goal is to take her home and have your dick inside of her and make her come a few times and come all over her a few times, like rabbits.
So of course it doesnt make sense that she wants to suck your cock and you neg her. You confused the shit out of her and disqualified yourself in the process.
But live and learn.
>> When they submit to you and please you, then your job is to reward that behavior by accepting her and validating her.
Yeah. I was “negging” good behavior. That was one of my problems.
If I had run “comfort” all night, I would have seen that particular girl again… even if I didn’t sex her that night.
And in the positives: you picked up a girl during day, and she wanted to suck your dick and that you fuck her shortly after. So you can do this stuff.
She probably saw your day approach as a strong dominant move, and the strange text game as your way to set a fuckdate arrangement. So she went in expecting action.
The core of why this was an overgaming situation is that you didnt know how close you were, so you thought you had to do things, like, create attraction or intimacy and stuff, you acted off-frame.
The frame she was reacting to is that there’s a dominant man who wants to fuck her and it’s maybe a catch for her. If you’re a dominant man, an alpha man, which is what she’s responding to, she’ll fuck you first and figure you out later. So all the things you did to Game are indeed walls between you and her, you placed obstacles where there were none.
But the good thing is that a woman saw you as a dominant man she would have sex immediately with.
Which means you have more cards in your favor that you give yourself credit for.
it’s just a matter of playing them right, which in this case means, less Game, more initiative.
It’s a good practice to go with a clear mind about what you want, which should be, to have sex that night, and keep moving in that direction, and have the logistics set, so when she says “now what are we doing” you can smirk and tell her you want to take her to your place.
And all this can be subtext. I rarely engage in all that sexual talk – why talk about it when you can be doing it? figure out how much she likes dick while you put it in her mouth. All the verbalization tends to activate the wrong side of the brain and switch the vibe off.
Anyway, dont chase this one, let her be, if you see her again just fuck her.
>> The core of why this was an overgaming situation is that you didnt know how close you were, so you thought you had to do things, like, create attraction or intimacy and stuff, you acted off-frame.
Yeah. I was off frame… trying too hard. That was all of June/July for me.
>> The core of why this was an overgaming situation is that you didnt know how close you were
Reading this again now, 9 months later… painful. Wow.
I think about this girl sometimes… I totally fucked this up.
>> It’s a good practice to go with a clear mind about what you want, which should be, to have sex that night
Again, I was not ready for this back then… I have come a long way 9 months. That concept (I will fuck this girl tonight), on the first date, was not in my reality.
I was on the street today, with a Korean tourist, bouncing through options so I could fuck her tonight. It went nowhere, but I was ready. Now, that is in my reality. When I wrote this report… I wasn’t even close.
Amazing what a year can do.