“For some reason, at least half a dozen women have told me on first dates or near first dates about abuse or “abuse,” and with every one of them I did the same thing: no more dates, no more escalation. Don’t need that shit. If she’s sharing it inappropriately early, run.”
— The Red Quest
^ Dodgy situation… from the POV of a high-value man. A man with wisdom… and self-respect.
That is from The Red Quest‘s post from today. He’s got a great blog. One of my favorites right now.
And good for you, man. Think of how many guys that would read that story the other way… guys that would want to fix her. Or protect her. Or happy those “jerks” were out of the way so he could take his shot. Many otherwise great men have fallen into that trap.
I can think of only one date like Red Quest references above…
She approached me and a friend while we ate at this high-end burger place. She liked my book, which was on the counter next to me as I ate. We exchanged names and I happened to have the same name as her grandfather. Her eyes sparkled. It was on.
She was “older” (33?), had a lot of tattoos (a red flag), but she was the manager of the place and seemed spritely and in her element. She looked confident… and rather hot. A tall, sexy girl. I gave her my card (because I was dumb back then) but she called (which never happens… she must not have had a lot of options), and by “call” I mean… she actually called (which shows her age), and left me a voicemail (freakishly uncommon).
I called her back. She picked up. We spoke and set up a date. I was just getting into game, at the time. I felt cool.
It was pouring rain as she arrived for our first (and only) date. She seemed “different.” Her confidence was gone. Even at 5’10”, she cowered a bit as she arrived. I was disappointed… but two beers later I was more into her. Another bar, whiskey… and then came her stories… the abusive, alcoholic ex BFs. More than one. Her low self-esteem leaked into the space between us.
We had a hot makeout in the bar (because I am
a dog a man, and not as wise as Red Quest). As we prepared to leave, and we put our coats back on to brace against the storm, she said, “I feel like we should be taking our clothes off…” I was relatively inexperienced, but even then I was sure what she meant. She was a happy girl. And she was ready to get fucked… practically licking her lips about it as we left the bar together.
This was back in the days of cabs… so I stopped one, and put her in it. She had a look of total shock on her face when I didn’t slide in next to her… she assumed we were going to my place. She was wrong. She couldn’t believe I was sending her home alone. “Get home safe,” I said.
I sent her a nice “validation” text as I took a separate cab home. And then… I never messaged her again.
About a week later, she sent me some slightly bitter text. I don’t remember the details. Some accusations… a bit nasty, presumably because I never asked for another date. She felt the “pump and dump”… even though I never gave her the D. It was passive-aggressive, but I think she still thought I might ask her out again. The nastiness was her attempt to “seduce” me into more contact with her.
There was one more message, a few days later, fully bitter now. Talking about how I was broken.
Sure, babe. Whatever you say.
“Everyone has a narrative. Most people’s narratives leave some shit out. Whenever someone tells you some story, think about the dark matter of that story.”
— The Red Quest
Imagine the story she told her girlfriends about me. About how I was a dick. And the details she imagined about how I was too broken to feel intimacy… all said with confidence, but completely imagined by her, as I never mentioned anything like that. But there had to be a “reason” why I wouldn’t see her again… it must have been me. Certainly. I was damaged goods. And an asshole… for taking her on a nice date and not even trying to fuck her… how rude of me. A real gentleman would have at least fucked her.
All the tattoos were the first clue. Her physiology as she showed up for the date was the second. The stories about “dysfunctional exs” told “inappropriately early” was the clincher.
I talk about this book Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man quite a bit. Check this out:
“Detecting a woman’s self-esteem is strictly linked with a concept we have coined as the Early Frame Announcement (EFA). As a rule, a woman will say or do something early on in a relationship, by which she will unwittingly reveal the degree of her self-esteem and also what she expects from her relationships with men. Therefore, it is important that you pay very close attention to what a woman does and says at the very beginning of any relationship.”
— Practical Female Psychology for the Practical Man
As Seneca says, “But something that can never be learnt too thoroughly can never be said too often.” I could read this quote again and again. So solid. Good stuff right there.
Compare that line to this bit from Red Quest’s post:
“Some guys are assholes. Some women are too. But be pretty cagey about anyone who paints their ex as a total demon. If the ex is a demon, why did she (or sometimes he) date him in the first place? There’s some shit there that’s not being revealed.”
— The Red Quest
Red Quest is dead on here. Wisdom from the tribe of men.
And he is cautioning us “not to believe” everything we hear. That is part of our task as we lead and evaluate women. But we also need to see and believe what is there “between the lines.” That’s similar to what Red Quest is saying, but from another angle…
Do believe what you hear and see, but look for the real show, the tells, including, but not only, the narrative that she lays out for you.
Look for that early frame announcement. Those subtle, or not-so-subtle red flags. Maybe what she says or does. Or maybe what is lurking behind her social mask.
How many relationships had the warning signs, but we were too blind (or too thirsty) for caution. So needy (or inexperienced) we had no time for wisdom.
Good post, Red Quest. Really loving your blog.