Sex with Miss Thick, +1 Daygame
Ahhhh, +1 daygame. My 8th daygame lay in as many months. Great experience, I like her.
Miss Thick is the first new girl I’ve had sex with since I’ve been back from Japan (that’s two months). I’ve dated a bit, and have been getting laid regularly with Siren (which has been a fantastic relationship, she is wonderful), but no new girls in my bed. Now, I’m back on track in terms of continuing to meet, date, and crucially… spend some naked-time with lovely, interesting, young girls.
Miss Thick was one of four leads from my day out with Pancake a little over three weeks ago. I liked her enough to pick her up at the time, but liked her more as we started to text. She surprised me.
First date, art museum, was excellent. She is a fascinating girl and a proper artist. I’m genuinely impressed with her skill, her knowledge, the depth of her artistic vein.
I call her Miss Thick because she is tall (almost as tall as me) and not what I would call skinny. On our first date, I was very into her ripe ass and what looked like C-boobs. She’s Chinese. About 28, let’s say. Unusual size and shape for a Chinese girl, and not my usual type, but I have been very into her. I still am.
2nd date was a quick dinner, she wouldn’t come home with me, but wanted more time post-dinner so we had tea. Light kiss that night. I blushed when I kissed her… that surprised me also. Another light kiss as I dropped her off at the train. I was excited about her.
She’s has mostly been an enthusiastic “yes” since the opening texts… but this is the same girl that I talked about in a recent post that said:
HER: Sorry I don’t think we should date anymore
That came out of nowhere, but I was oddly calm about the whole thing.
NASH: I’m not sure what is going on with you today… but we have already had a good time together
HER: We had a good time, that’s why I choose to control my feelings…
HER: I don’t want any kind of relationship right now
Hmmmm. Again, I felt like we were on, but for some reason I didn’t panic at this from her.
NASH: We are both cool people…
NASH: Neither of us need to push for any kind of relationship
NASH: I still want to see you
NASH: I’ll say hi next week
HER: Great, maybe I have too much pressure right now
HER: I like you, dangerous guy
NASH: Okay, that sounds about right.
NASH: I’ll check in after a while… go do your thing, we’re in no rush
NASH: I like you too, creative girl
This ^ is the short version of this conversation (I mentioned some of it in a previous post), but it’s a part of the story of her and I.
And I like this part of the story. I remember having a whiskey that night also feeling like there was something significant about what went on with her/me via WeChat that day.
And I am often wrong. And I often take an “L,” as my young cousin would say. But that day… I had a feeling it was still very on with that girl. And that I handled her just right, and that soon, I would write a post like I’m writing now… talking about how I had sex with her, and recovered from where we were that day.
This may be the most meaningful part of this post. The comments I wrote her that day, the fact that I didn’t panic (not in her eyes or mine), that I assumed she was only freaking out a little, and that I could rein her back into the dance… I could not do this a year ago.
This was the real “game” of this seduction. She has been a “yes,” the whole time. This little bump in our relationship was some general girl nonsense, an anemic attempt to keep me out of her panties, or a serious shit-test. Regardless of what it meant to her, it was my chance to blow myself out. Or give up via premature ejection. But I did not. I was over that hurdle. I am tempted to say this was “good game.”
I rolled off for almost a week… I wasn’t feeling needy and it was easy to give our situation some space. And then we started chatting again. She was back to normal. A happy, fun, friendly, interesting girl. And into me. I had fully recovered.
So that earned me the 3rd date. And she was committed to seeing a movie. She was baiting me to get involved, in that classic feminine way, where she asks questions, but never says what she means.
NASH: When are you free this week?
NASH: Tuesday night?
HER: Monday night, so I’m going to cinema
All of this was right after my date with the teenager, a week ago, last Sunday night. I was writing about that date while I sat at one of my favorite dive bars, an IPA in my left hand and a Jim Beam rocks in my right. And texting Miss Thick on WeChat.
She has been very “yes,” but in this case, she had a plan and was determined to do it. So I didn’t wait for an invite, I coopted her movie plan:
NASH: What time should we meet tomorrow?
HER: Anytime
And then, the movie. I bought tickets online, but she had drinks waiting for me at the theatre. I like that.
And she wore a skirt… and I could barely concentrate for that film. Her thighs in my view, more compelling than the screen, wanting to touch her the whole time.
I would never take a new date to a movie, but like I said, she was basically telling me that if I wanted to see her, it was movie night… so I played the hand I was dealt. Film was great. Touched her a tiny bit, but mostly just watched the film.
After… took her via Uber to a fancy pizza place, grabbed food, then another Uber to my place. There was a slightly funny look in her eyes as I told her we were going to my place, but she agreed.
It was her first time at my house. Dinner, standing up, at my counter top. Cats were awesome, she liked them.
After dinner, talked art. My sticker collection. It was getting late, so I went for a proper kiss and she didn’t really dive in.
We were not really in a very seductive mood. I am listening to Yohami’s instruction that I shouldn’t really be trying to kiss girls that aren’t ready to be kissed (my paraphrase of his guidance). But I still think this is its own kind of communication. That my trying to kiss her, even when she isn’t really turned on, is part of how we start that process. I don’t think it’s weird at all.
Anyway… a few minutes later, another pass at the kiss and it was on. And it was hot. Pretty hot, anyway.
She had to go. Had plans to see a classmate later that night. But at the door I kissed her some more, and I pinned her arms against the wall and she started to moan.
I’m going to say it again… she moaned when I pinned her arms against the wall. This is what she wants.
Oh. A girl that likes to be pinned down. What are the chances?? Of course I’m not surprised.
And Siren and I had an unusually forceful session on Friday night. We had had some delicious sex before dinner, awesome. Then a nice dinner. Then home, and I wasn’t sure if I would fuck her, and I didn’t. But as I was making out, she was clearly turned on, and we ended up in some very dominant kissing, me pinning her head to the bed, using a fistful of her hair to hold her mouth in place as I got aggressive and shoved my tongue in her mouth. I ate her pussy, but via candle light, dragging her pretty ass to the edge of the bed, candle on a stool next to me as I knelt on the floor… so I could see all my favorite parts. Hot and medieval. I ended up jerking off and coming in her mouth. The whole scene was rough (mostly symbolically), but very hot.
Yeah… lots of girls that like to be pinned down. There is nothing new in the world.
So this week, lots of back and forth with Miss Thick via WeChat. Some mix of me talking too much (Yohami is right, I talk too much), me giving her too much validation (which is fine, because she likes me), and then, mixing in some playful “push” too keep from fucking the whole thing up.
I was trying to get her out for today (Sunday), and she said she was busy.
NASH: Are you free Sunday?
HER: No, I have an appointment with Jane every Sunday.
NASH: Okay… Monday, Tuesday? Let’s make a plan.
HER: Monday I’ll go to a concert… not sure if it’s too late when it ends
Again, she has been very into me. So I didn’t feel like I was chasing her (other than I hadn’t fucked her yet, and if you haven’t fucked her yet, you’re chasing to some degree). I felt like I was just handling logistics.
In response to her, I gave her three choices:
NASH: Okay, some choices:
NASH: Sunday… come see me before you see Miss Jane. Maybe lunch or tea.
NASH: Or Monday late is okay with me…
NASH: Or Tuesday… so we can have more time.
Now, talking about Sunday after all, she says:
HER: My internship starts at 12, ends at 4:30. Do you want to meet me in the afternoon?
NASH: Hmmm, I’ll have to think about it…
NASH: …
NASH: Okay, yes.
NASH: : ]
She laughed, getting my joke.
Okay, we’re set up. This would be the 4th date, and it has always felt on…
So today… I actually had another date for lunch, with a different girl… the Mongolia Mom. I met her on Friday. I went straight from that date to a café, and wrote about the Mom. And then from there to meet Miss Thick.
It was raining here in my city, and Miss Thick had dinner plans with “Jane,” as we know. So I suggested we get boba tea and go back to my house. She was a quick yes.
And that is simple, but decent game also. Always have a plan. Give her a clear and easy opportunity to say “yes.” Very basic, elementary stuff… but this is on my mind all the time.
I woke up this morning, cleaned up my place, and starting “leading.” I had three appointments this day, the Mom, Miss Thick, and then dinner with my very fucking cool cousin. So I woke up, and started leading… handling logistics for all three appointments. One after another, locking all those plans down. Removing chaos. This is the work of men. Basic, but can’t be said often enough.
“But something that can never be learnt too thoroughly can never be said too often.”
— Seneca
She offered to pick me up as she was driving to see Jane tonight. Really nice car. I think she’s from a wealthy family in China, but I haven’t asked about that much.
I gave her a quick kiss as I climbed into her car. She looked great. Low-cut top showing soft boob-flesh and I was very eager to get at that cleavage, but trying to keep my eyes “up” so I didn’t look over-eager. She definitely turns me on.
We grab our Taiwanese tea…. “Hong Kong” style, and head to my place. Cats were great again. Some boba. Some chat. Then I started kissing her.
We kissed a bit. Warm, but nothing red-hot.
She asked me if I have a thing for Asian girls. And I do, as we know. But I’m getting very good with this conversation at this point. I basically told her, yeah, but obviously not “every Asian girl,” as all Asian girls are different. The key to this is to turn the question around, ask her if she thinks all Asian girls are the same? Obviously she does not. And then I tell her that I like Asian girls, but even being a “hot Asian girl” isn’t enough, which is true… I clearly have a thing for Asian girls, but at the end of the day it is about chemistry. Always. Very congruent… because it’s true.
And I kept kissing her. And we started to warm up.
Moving the thick mane of her China-black hair, I started kissing the nape of her neck, and that got her going. I tried to take her to my room, and gave me the smallest bit of resistance. More neck. More kissing. Tried again… “let’s go,” and took her hand…
No problem.
My room. Pulled back the covers. She stared at me. Of course the sheets were recently changed, to wash the tracks of Siren out of my bed.
I gently pushed Miss Thick back onto the bed, and it was looking pretty on. She verbalizes something about “not being sure yet,” even though I didn’t ask any questions that could require a comment like that… and I kept looking for what she “likes.” Touching her. Not too eager. Not certain this was going to be about sex.
HER: You’re a bad man
I loved hearing that. I am not really that “bad,” but I have been cultivating this frame with the girls I date. It’s at the level of a joke, sometimes, but a well-acted joke, and when I “drop into that role,” I get looks back from the girls like they are true believers. And I know it’s making their pussies wet.
“Give her more of what she likes, less of what she doesn’t like,” said some wise man (that may or may not be Yohami). So that’s what I did.
I was pulling her skirt down to suck on her hips, and she gave me a very tiny bit of resistance, so I went back to pinning her arms down, and got a great reaction. She loves that.
Full purr.
Again, that pinning her down. Sort of forcing things on her. I did the same move with the “fistful of hair,” on each side of her head this time, holding her pretty face in place, giving her an evil-intense stare, and then pried her lips apart and kissed her like a solider from an invading army. Nasty bad, man shit. It was hot. Great reactions from her.
So then I reached up under her skirt and pulled her panties off… no trouble. I loved knowing that pussy was only a flimsy skirt away from the light of day.
Nipples out, purple… very sensitive. Very, very sensitive. So I pinned her down, sucked her nipples, and at this point I was sure sex was happening. She was loving it.
I thought:
NASH: I’m going to put my cock in this girl.
So I dragged her to the edge of the bed, pried her legs apart, and ate her pussy like I like to do.
She was gooey-wet. “Snotty” wet, as Dante from The Black Philip show would say. I love that.
God, I love to eat pussy. I really do. And she was awesome. Untrimmed like so many Asian girls, which I like (I don’t care if that’s not the western standard). There was some version of resistance as I had my way between her thighs, but clearly just part of the sexual dance. I would grab both wrists and pull them under her thighs to keep her from squirming away. Each moment, she would relax into it more, until she was spread wide, twisting and moaning, digging her nails into my shoulders and desperately grabbing at my hair. Very enthusiastic and passionate. I climbed up her body after a while and gave her a big kiss — getting her juice all over her own mouth and lips.
I took my shirt off.
Back to her pussy… and after I had thoroughly enjoyed my snack, I walked to the cabinet and got one of the world’s best condoms, tossed it on the bed next to her. I stared at her while I took off my pants. And then…
+ 1, daygame.
Great sex. Really great.
“Two pumps” into her, I had my notch (which is a ridiculous standard that I blame Krauser and John Bohi for establishing, the RSG standard). It’s stupid, but those first two pumps are for ego and bragging rights only. Someday I will let that go… but as an intermediate guy, I’m still a notch hound. Of course it means more to me than that, but I can be distracted by that hurdle of officially taking the notch. Once it’s mine, my ego backs off and I can relax.
And I did. I fucked her for 20 minutes or so, and really enjoyed every minute of it. It wasn’t about glory at that point, it was about sensuality, and dirtiness, and her pleasure and mine. And seeing her ass spread as I hit her from behind. About finding our rhythm and about seeing how loud I could get her moan… pretty loud, but about 60% of what Siren has been giving me. My new downstairs neighbors can vouch for my game… I’m sure I’ve been waking them up here and there.
And she is thick. And in a delicious way, she earns her name. And her body is sensitive and wonderful. And it was a great lay.
And her lovely face, and big dark eyes… and that long black hair (it’s very long), spilled across my fresh, white sheets… just gorgeous.
I took my time after sex. She wasn’t sleeping over… dinner with Jane, afterall. But I wanted to make sure she knew I was genuinely interested in her post-coitus. I checked her out some… rolled her onto her belly and scratched the backs of her thighs and spanked her full ass until she would jump and wimper. And then it was easy to be tender and affectionate with her, as well.
I like her.
But her dinner plans were pressing, so we got her up. No shower, she just put her clothes back on. I walked her downstairs, and the mood was light and felt good, connected, even though we really don’t know each other that well.
I’m not used to sexing a girl that doesn’t sleep over. The Nurse in Japan didn’t sleep over. And the Firecracker didn’t the first time (but did later on). But almost every other girl in the last year has spent the full night with me after sex, which I like very much, but this was fine too.
Better than fine.
I told her I was looking fwd to seeing her, and I am. She is fascinating girl, very interesting, and on top of that… delicious in bed. It was the first time for us sexually, and for me, it almost always gets better as I have an additional roll with a girl.
To be real… Friday with Siren was so good, so rich, so delicious, I do feel vaguely “bad” for dating not one, but two girls since then, and fucking this one. But… this is the path. I’ve made Siren no promises whatsoever. I’m a little conflicted, but I really want to learn.
I want to know women, not “a woman.” I really believe you can’t learn this game “one woman at a time.” There are certain lessons that are only yours to take if you’re running concurrent girls through your bed at the same time. Spinning plates. Managing abundance, and what that feeling does to your own state.
We smiled as I closed my front door.
And then… I went and had pizza and beer with my fucking cool cousin. And told him the story. And he gave me a comically critical look and a “golf clap,” which is his way of being a dick. He is 18. I’m trying to give him the education I didn’t get.
It was a great dinner. And a great night.
And then as I went to bed, I messaged her. I wanted to give her some post-sex validation. I really do want to give girls good experiences, and that includes post-sex emotional management.
NASH: Sleep well and thank you for the tenderness
Some messages between us about dreams that are too sicky-sweet to share. And then:
HER: Today I want to dream of you
Cheesy, but a great review. I’ll take that as a happy girl.
I smoked a joint and sipped a whiskey on the couch and fell asleep.
Viva daygame.
Congrats man.
“I am listening to Yohami’s instruction that I shouldn’t really be trying to kiss girls that aren’t ready to be kissed”
She’s in your apartment because she wants to fuck you.
What no man should be doing is pushing past a girls resistance point as a strategy for getting laid.
When in doubt “come here” and let her come to you is better than “here I go, reject me if you don’t want it” move. But you had already made out with this one, she came wearing a skirt, came to your apartment, sex is on the table, the kiss is not something to worry about.
The best thing was your lack of tussle when she offered you the bottom guy trap / screening mechanism. Well done.
>> She’s in your apartment because she wants to fuck you.
Yeah. There is that lesson too.
That was the first lesson I think I really took from you.. one I have pretty thoroughly digested at this point. I think that is mostly true. Where “fucking” could mean a hookup first, or whatever, depending on the girl… but a man that doens’t make a serious move in a situation like this is not doing it right… and is likely disappointing the girl. And another point you’ve made… might not see her again.
>> What no man should be doing is pushing past a girls resistance point as a strategy for getting laid.
Agreed.
I would add that testing a girls resistance point is part of the dance, and girls can enjoy being tested as well.
>> “I am listening to Yohami’s instruction that I shouldn’t really be trying to kiss girls that aren’t ready to be kissed”
I still think I have a lot to learn here. This ^ combined with the idea that I should say “come here” and just stand still and let her physically move to me…
^ This is something I am just beginning to recognize. I barely get what is possible here. I’m going to try to practice more.
Lots of really, really good stuff in the RSD Tyler program I’ve been watching. I am going to wrap up that program and do a post about it. Very, very good. He is explicit about how to move fwd physically with a girl, but always watching/reading her… he has a zero resistance philosophy, and I really like what he is teaching.
“he has a zero resistance philosophy”
He’s stealing my shit!
“I would add that testing a girls resistance point is part of the dance”
One of the dance points is when they offer you bait and then offer token resistance to see you overcome it (or see you disqualify yourself). Case point – firecraker not kissing you (but still down to fuck), the thai virgin on the street, waiting in front of the hotel till you didn’t make a move, or the girl at the burning man, etc. They are just waiting for you to make the move. The “resistance” is part of the puzzle, aka, they want something specific. What specifically? find out by seeing what they respond to. Aka figuratively finger her, when she moans, double down.
The other resistance is the one they offer to bottom guy, needy guy, desperate guy, or guy moving on her when she’s not aroused. That’s the real wall. That’s the wall you experience with the tussle, sending power back and forth and putting her in charge of making a move. This is the resistance that you learn never to experience, because you don’t move on your own against her resistance, instead you lure, you look for the opening, and then cross it. Or you lead, see what she likes, and do that more.
“I still think I have a lot to learn here. This ^ combined with the idea that I should say “come here” and just stand still and let her physically move to me…”
Come here – and offer your mouth / chin. Pull her. Bring her into you.
Pull, don’t push.
You’re the gravity. You’re where the value is. Pull.
But even more important than pulling is to tease. Tease is the ‘swing your dick’ part. It’s when you’re smiling looking at her and the flirting is going on. And you had is in her, and you’re looking as if you’re going to kiss but you don’t. That’s what precedes the pull. Without it – the move doesn’t have a ramp. Without having seen Tyler’s hotseat Im sure he talks about this a lot, based on that short video. If you consitently tease / swing / then ignore when they don’t respond and double down when they do – this creates a very fast ramp up and every fucking girl is a yes girl. There’s no resistance. There’s no resistance for the top guy. All the resistance is for the bottom guy.
I can go out and flirt with an old lady and turn her into a yes girl.
It is not rocket science.
It only seems complicated because you (and most men) hold into a framing of reality that is rooted in bottom – guy. The way you look at reality determines how you behave, the kind of games you play, the pace of how you move – and girls are super micro fine tuned to reject any behavior and cue that comes from bottom guy, so you experience girls as something that has walls and have to be tricked or conquered or worked for or begged or whatever. These same girls have a complete different set of behaviors when they detect top-guy framing.
See how you flipped this one. You were offered a way out as a bottom guy – then you offered top guy nonchlant not-overly-invested-self-reassured behaviour and she gave you pussy in return. Same with “never means friday”.
This is so fucking simple really.
But men insist on double down the chasing. When it should be cut to zero.
Masterully done! I like the way you’ve handled her giving you a little shit and resistance with your soft dominance. That is a sticking point for me right now… Whenever I sense a girl is trying to put me in the “Beta Box” I go in extremely gamey and belligerently try to make my point clear – only not with words, but with action (or lack thereof). As in “how dare you perceive me as a provider”. Purely an ego thing, and a sure way to quickly make her uninterested. Which in turn reinforces my lack of interest, leading to me deleting numbers prematurely, perhaps.
Paranoia is a double-edged sword and you sometimes need to temporarily lose the (frame) battle in order to win the war. You live and learn.
^ This is all real. Good comments.
I have an issue when a girl won’t sit next to me on a date (only happens once in a while). I think it is a terrible sign, a sign that girl is a pain in the ass. (Yohami, for the record, thinks it’s no big deal, and in some ways, I’m sure he’s right.)
I get a bit belligerent in those moments too. It feels like the “beta box” and I’m not interested in that role, I’d rather burn the set… but there is something childish about me wanting to “roast” that girl when she pulls shit like that.
My current position is that I will point out that she is probably willing to sit next to strangers on the bus. And assuming that is true, if she wont sit next to me on the date… that is fine… she is a perfect, special girl… perfect in everyway… but she can sit next to me or she can leave. Those are her options. Smile on my face. But she gets two choices… either is fine with me. “Stay or go, babe… it’s up to you.”
I am actually looking fwd to that next time it comes up. : ] Big smile, I’m not mad, but I won’t stand for that… why should I? I’d rather she leaves and I have a nice dinner by myself. I really would.
But to connect Yohami’s comment (about how I shouldn’t freak out when she won’t sit next to me on a first date) with Miss Thick saying she didn’t want to date me anymore… similar situation, in some ways. I was calm, assumed it was going to work out (this was not a technique, I really did feel like it was going to smooth over), and it DID work out. I didn’t burn the bridge. And I have a happy, feminine girl in my life.
>> I go in extremely gamey
I am coming up on a year from when I burned a really great “yes” girl by being over gamey in general. I think about her a lot… she was a great girl. I over gamed her and lost. Not smart.
— http://www.daysofgame.com/dates/overgaming-yes-girl-jankas-comments/
Sometimes, that’s how we find the edge.
>> Paranoia is a double-edged sword and you sometimes need to temporarily lose the (frame) battle in order to win the war. You live and learn.
Yeah… I still have a chip on my shoulder about a girls frame on the first date. If she is giving you shit, I want to lose then. Not let it drag on. I’m a firm believer that “how it starts is how it goes.”
If she is really out-framing me, and that means I’m one-down in her eyes… that’s not going to work. If I have a frame that can absorb that frame, that’s fine. I think that’s what I did with Miss Thick. No frame battle… my frame just swallowed hers.
I think your gut tells you the answer… your ego is not always the problem. Sometimes a girl wants a guy to smash her frame, and/or will never let you stand up against once she thinks you’re down.
“I have an issue when a girl won’t sit next to me on a date (only happens once in a while). I think it is a terrible sign, a sign that girl is a pain in the ass.”
This happens very often here, so I can totally relate. As Yohami rightly pointed out, most girls here are clinically crazy – though some of them are hot, otherwise it just wouldn’t be worth it, right? – and will try to derail the train in very creative and unexpected ways. Personally, I view it as just another shit test and what I like to do is solving this with some scheming and logistic awareness… See, if a girl suggests we go to a certain place while making arrangements to meet I simply say “maybe, we’ll see…” or simply ignore her suggestion altogether and give her directions to the rendezvous later. If upon meeting she insists on going to that place I tell her: “Hmmm, not sure… that place sounds familiar… take me there so I can see the place”. I’ll let her “lead” until we are at the place and then I’ll say: “Nope, can’t go in there… C’mon let’s go to XWZ”. If she says: “Why?” I reply: “There works a person I rather not having to meet again”… And play the mystery card. If, at this point she gets cunty and says something like: “Well, I’m only going to that place and that’s that” (happened once) I simply say: “Well, I don’t feel comfortable going there, so you enjoy it for both of us” and walk away.
Now, about the sitting-next-to-me thing, I agree with Yohami that it’s no big deal. I guess it just means she needs more comfort, like when one tests compliance with kino and they recoil nervously. I try to choose a loud place for venue two, so if she doesn’t want to sit next to me I’ll chat her into comfort for a while, pretending having a hard time hearing what she’s saying and trying to make her move seats next to me. Plan B is the toilet move and sitting next to her on my way back, casually. If all else fails, it’s try again later at another venue or, if I feel proactive that night, go directly for the kiss while walking to my car or to the next bar.
Bottom line is, I’ll concede some ground only if that provides a way of letting her know I can’t be pushed around, so she can safely accept me leading her. Anything beyond that is cunty behaviour and should be swiftly punished – in my case, I naturally resort to indifference or coldness. It simply kills my attraction when a girl is continually engaging in frame battles just for the hell of it. When it’s a case of them wanting the “rub” that’s a quite another thing, and actually a turn on.
>> Personally, I view it as just another shit test and what I like to do is solving this with some scheming and logistic awareness…
— DIS
I like this whole paragraph from you. I can see your experience in all this talk.
>> It simply kills my attraction when a girl is continually engaging in frame battles just for the hell of it.
Yeah… I just don’t want to be around those girls. So I am thinking of going with the nuclear option, in part just to be wiling to “destroy something” as internal proof that I would rather pick a new path than push a boulder up hill all night.
The other option I like is call out her behavior. “So, I think girls have their real side, and sometimes this outside “shell.” Not the real them… a little show they use in certain situations. In my experience, it’s like these girls are intentionally being un-fun and unattractive. Like this low-resolution version of themselves, a mix of defense and false-front………… I’m interested in you, but to be honest… mostly based on the spark between us when we met. That was great. There was something special there… you were charming. But tonight, you seem like you’re all “shell.” We both know a lot of people. We know how to have a good time. This is not it. A bit boring, don’t you think? Is there something about you that I’m missing when I look at you and only see “the shell?””
Then dead on eye contact and full vacuum.
Something like that ^
We’ll see… I think the “will not sit next to me” is a huge red flag.
>> When it’s a case of them wanting the “rub” that’s a quite another thing, and actually a turn on.
This part I’m still unsure of. This makes me think of type of girl that likes to physically wrestle before sex. A little active “fight” in bed, her squirming, pushing me away with her legs, etc. I used to not like that at all. Took it as a turn off. I still don’t like it, but it occurred to me that this is very much like basic animals where the female needs specific proof you are “dominant,” particularly in the moments before sex.
Still not my favorite flavor. I love to pin girls down, but in a symbolic way, not a physical “fight way.”
“Then dead on eye contact and full vacuum.”
That was tussle – you’re transferring the power to her and becoming passive. Shitville’s example was also tussle, though, argentinean drama style, Im very familiar with it.
The untussle way to do it, when something matters, is to tell her what to do. Increase dominance. Brad from RSD was good at this, not sure where are his videos, this is somewhat the same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt5c9NBFfmg
If you understand what dominance is you don’t even need to raise your voice. You can say “sit or leave” and have a smirk that will communicate who’s setting the rules. You can say “well Im not going there, are you coming to X bar?” and that’s it.
But – why?
There are cases where what the girl wants to do is her path to being aroused and her plan to have sex with you that night. She may want to take you to X bar because she knows a corner where you can be alone, or a drink that maker her horny. She may want to sit in front of you because that’s how she gets stimulated, frontal eye contact or whatever. Make sure this is just not your personal issues getting in the way, and it’s not you refusing sex because things don’t go according to your premade plan.
If she’s out with you, she wants the cock. She wont just be trying to betaing you down for the sake of it. If she thought you’re a beta she’d have answered the texts from mr alpha and ignored yours. She will try to push you down when you show you’re a bottom guy. Make sure you don’t have a huge chip on your shoulder and that you’re reacting to actual power plays and not just imagined ones.
And when there’s an actual power play – yes “Well, nice to meet you, bye”
—-
I got more twitter feed from coaching Penguin, the guy just had sex with a virgin after a cold approach and a few texts. She’s been powerplaying him and Im coaching him to set walls. The result is she came to his place to fuck him again. Set walls, set direction, don’t tussle.
>> That was tussle – you’re transferring the power to her and becoming passive.
Disagree.
In this case (and maybe this is hard to show on a blog), the way I take the interaction is away from her frame of “battle” and “resistance” into something else. It “interrupts her pattern,” and that is a good start (she probably tools guys like this a lot). Then it’s likely direct and communicative in a way she is not used to. This should surprise her. I think the angle is interesting, all on it’s own.
The example I gave is not angry at all. It’s more like someone hiring for a job that looks at the job candidate and say, “I don’t know… I’m not sure you want this job.” It’s not angry, but it talks to the Elephant in the room. For any number of reason, this could lead to her qualifying herself… and the defense is gone.
I am thinking now of a daygame girl from 3 years ago (wouldn’t sit next to me), of Business Girl in Japan (who I think did like me, but was always a waste of my time), of this very cute little Alcoholic I dated 1 night in Japan (wouldn’t sit next to me), but mostly of this girl:
http://www.daysofgame.com/dates/first-date-bitchy-blonde-asian/
I kind of did was I’m proposing above w/ the Blonde Asian.
“She is… stand offish. She is bitchy. Very little grace from this one. ”
“This date is going “okay”… but it is still the worst date I’ve had this year. I am being real.”
“So I tell her I am going to change the topic, and I start talking to her about surrender. I tell her that when two people meet, they are part real and part presentation. And that I see her being real, I do, but I also see presentation… not that she is being fake, but that I get this “tough” part. She nods… I have her a little bit here.”
That is similar to what I am suggesting with the “is this your shell? Is there anything more to you than this??”
The “shell” story is one that came up w/ Business Girl in Japan, on the date where I slapped her ass. It got her too. And it was surprising to her… I bet very few men have taking her attitude in that direction.
I agree, I don’t want tussle. When I tell a girl she can sit next to me or leave… yeah, that is tussle. But this “are you any more than shell?” is not tussle. Not to me. It’s a way to claim some authority in the date, based on what I know is true about life (and girls) and a way to make her qualify herself… which at that point makes sense. Tell me why you are here? Or who you are? Or I’m done with this date… it’s not tussle, it’s last minute chance for me to give a shit.
If she is graceless, and bitchy, why not try to mix it up? I know this worked, partially, with the Blonde Asian. And I think it will work better as I’m confident with the technique.
I am not dating many women like this (thank god)… but I’m curious to know if they can be turned around. For me, this feels like a good approach.
>> The untussle way to do it, when something matters, is to tell her what to do. Increase dominance.
Okay… now this lands for me. Yeah. In general, I like the idea of, “when in doubt, be more dominant.” I’ve been using “commands” for years, mostly to get *my* mood straight when I was uncertain. I give her the command, but it has the effect of making me more stable.
Now, if I tell her “scoot over,” and she wants to argue, I’m not certain that more of me telling her what to do will work…
>> tell her what to do
So, working with this…
— I say, “move over, I want to sit next to you”
— She says, “No… I’d really rather not, I want to sit across from you”
— I take it as no big deal…
— Then I sit, and say, “So you’re at University, tell me what you’re studying”
Across the table, in a bar/food situation, the ideas that come to mind for dominance are “tell me” statements. I think that’s a lot of what I’ve got to work with at that point… I can’t move her, I can’t touch her (all reasons why I never sit across from my date), so… that’s one idea.
>> If you understand what dominance is you don’t even need to raise your voice. You can say “sit or leave” and have a smirk that will communicate who’s setting the rules.
Agreed, agreed.
Even talking about this is helping me get that “smirk” frame down. I hope this doesn’t come up, but depending on her tone, I may try the “sit or leave” thing sometime… but it won’t be angry. It’ll be “you are perfect in every way, but this is your choice… sit or leave.”
>> Make sure you don’t have a huge chip on your shoulder and that you’re reacting to actual power plays and not just imagined ones.
This is a great point. Yeah. Sometimes, I do have a chip on my shoulder.
And interestingly, as I’m doing better, I get less resistance, and I have less of a chip on my shoulder. In Top Guy’s world… no one needs a chip on their shoulder.
“Okay… now this lands for me. ”
Cool, I hope it’s useful. Trial and error – and success, my friend.
“Whenever I sense a girl is trying to put me in the “Beta Box” I go in extremely gamey and belligerently try to make my point clear” -Daygame in Shitsville
yes, this is well described, it happens to me too, we panic, we get butthurt, we react emotionally, we overgame — all the things that prove to her that we are bottom guy, not top guy. i think i may have made this mistake with claire.
that’s why nash’s reply to her saying “Sorry I don’t think we should date anymore” is such a cool example of top guy behavior.
“Disagree.”
I know you’re going to disagree – you’re invested in that pattern. It’s about what you compare it too.
I am tempted to ask you to roleplay these in different situations where you’re the recipient. A boss gives you that speech. A girl you’re dating gives you that speech – what’s your reaction.
But the fact that you think it’s a good idea – it may mean that if you were given that speech and void look then maybe YOU would react positively to it and put more effort. Would that turn you on / mobilize you?
Specific comments:
““So, I think girls have their real side, and sometimes this outside “shell.” Not the real them…”
The way that you go around this – showing insight, shows that you know about human nature and have experience. This is a ‘swing of your dick’. What this doesn’t have is the confidence to move things in the direction that you want them. You’re manifesting your discomfort, then nullifying yourself and stopping your energy (hollow stare) and thus expecting that she fixes it.
That’s lower than bottom guy. But it’s about what you compare it against. This is the opposite of “never means friday”. The two don’t belong in the same frame or the same man. Try that approach with the girls you’re dating and take notes on what happens.
“The “shell” story is one that came up w/ Business Girl in Japan, on the date where I slapped her ass. It got her too. And it was surprising to her… I bet very few men have taking her attitude in that direction.”
You didn’t fuck her, and you didn’t leave the experience knowing what she wanted either – so don’t use that experience as a reference.
” “are you any more than shell?” is not tussle.”
Right – that’s the swing of a dick. The “are you cool” is better.
The tussle is in what followed. “the spark was great but it’s not there anymore, you’re giving me a shell” paraphrasing – and hollow stare.
Instead if you want something pinpoint it and make it happen.
>> ” “are you any more than shell?” is not tussle.”
>>
>> Right – that’s the swing of a dick. The “are you cool” is better.
Okay, I see that. Thanks.
>> A girl you’re dating gives you that speech – what’s your reaction.
Well… if a girl gave me the “sit or leave,” I’d leave. But that is a situation where she is taking a very dominant position, and I don’t want/need dominant girls in my life.
If we were standing, and I could get close and touch her, I’d pull her in, get in her ear and say, “I see this strong/dominant thing with you right now. I respect it, but this isn’t the side of you I’m interested in…” and then take it from there.
In the “are you more than a shell” scenario… I might be impressed. I use the phrase “that’s fair” quite a bit when someone challenges me, but in a “smart/savvy” way. that I respect In that case, I might reframe her… and say, “wow, that was a smart, savvy comment… that makes me think you are good at reading people.” Or.. I might just qualify myself.
>> You’re manifesting your discomfort, then nullifying yourself and stopping your energy (hollow stare) and thus expecting that she fixes it.
>> That’s lower than bottom guy.
>>
>> the confidence to move things in the direction that you want them.
Okay.
I am taking away here that top guy doesn’t “chase bad emotions.” Which is the opposite way of saying what RSD Julian is says about “give good emotions.” That I agree with.
You said something similar once when I texted some girl, “I’m getting busy, so let me know or I’ll make plans with someone else.” I did this via text, and you didn’t like it. I’m assuming for the same reason… I am “manifesting my discomfort.” Hmmm.
The easiest way for me to think about this is “give positive emotions” or in this case don’t make the story about “negative emotions.” Pick some other path. Swing my dick. Give her more of what she likes. Less of what she doesn’t.
: ]
>> stopping your energy (hollow stare) and thus expecting that she fixes it.
Nope. The look I give her in this instance is full of attentive energy (or, how a judge inspects a performer). If she has something to say, I’m certainly ready to hear it. It’s an entitled stare. I expect her to respond. I expect she will answer the question in a real way. That is what the vacuum is… expectation. It’s entitlement. It’s not pouty. It’s, “Okay, now talk.”
>> This is the opposite of “never means friday”. The two don’t belong in the same frame or the same man.
Okay, yeah. Yeah. This makes sense to me.
>> “the spark was great but it’s not there anymore, you’re giving me a shell” paraphrasing – and hollow stare.
I think you’re reading something into this… like the look is butthurt and pouty. It’s not.
That line, “the spark was great” is a compliment… I might touch her, and go “soft” when I say it. It’s a way to connect as I challenge her. I think it’s good. It is my experience that almost every girl that comes out liked the approach very much. So calling back to that spark seems to be good content for me. It’s also a frame that establishes that the spark *was* in fact good. If she doesn’t challenge the spark itself, it’s assumed that statement is true.
That “the spark was great” is actually a pull, right before I push with the “is this the real you?”
It’s about what you compare it against.
Let’s say a girl is acting bitchy, and you’re tempted to tell her to go fuck herself.
On surface you have two options:
1) Tell her that if she continues doing what she’s doing you’ll leave
2) Just leave
Believe it or not, number one, even if it’s reasonable and mostly reasonable most of the time and good for a bunch of things, it’s bottom guy, and decreases attraction. Here’s why you may think that it’s showing strength – let’s add the real bottom guy option
0) Put up with it
So we have:
0) Put up with it
1) Tell her that if she continues doing what she’s doing you’ll leave
2) Just leave
Option Zero is where most men are. Not just putting up with crap but mixing in caramel and pushing through and doing dance moves to the beat to try to please her and get something in return. Every move done here decreases your value, and tons of different types of girls enjoy when a man is devaluing himself like this, because it’s a vampiric exchange and it raises their value. They will not give you sex in return – or if in specific occasions they do, it’s to further extract more resources from you by making you put up with heavier stuff down the line. This is the life of a beta.
Option One in comparison is drawing a line, and communicating what repercussions may happen. It relies in communication and it assumes that all parties share the same objective, and it’s leading towards a common objective.
The problem with it in the sexual courtship is that you both don’t share the same objective. Your objective is to fuck her – that’s fixed. Her objective though is to fuck you, if she can be sure that you’re a top guy and not a bottom guy. So her objective is to screen you, which can be satisfied by disqualifying you, or qualifying you. She’s there because either you qualify already, or she sees the potential for qualification (that’s the % yes).
The “If this happens then X will happen” communicates that a line has been crossed and that repercussions might happen. So it communicates a boundary. But it doesnt communicate what kind of man you are. It still raises the question. Are you a bottom guy who will put with it, or a top guy who will enforce the boundary? So, literally, the only option you have given her, is to cross your boundary more to see if you will follow through and enforce the boundary.
So you have just told her to push your buttons some more and now she will want to see you actually going through the motions.
Which makes this the only top guy option:
2) Just leave
But that’s drastic right? not really.
Bad behaviour doesn’t start out of the blue, it comes in gradually. She doesn’t just start acting out and pushing your boundaries. Like everything in courtship, things come announced, teased, in micro dosis, before amping up.
When having a boundary crossed actually means you’ll walk out, and you have zero tolerance for bullshit, it will show up as soon as the micro transgressions happen. This permeates the whole thing since your very first moment.
It’s not that you’ll put up with some shit until you’ve had enough, but that you’ll put up with no shit at all. So when she does the first minimal shit-testing, she already finds a wall. It wont be you “walking out” but you setting a wall, not doing a chase, not going to some place, not bitting the bait. In other words you two never get to the stage where you have to communicate that there’s a problem and that there will be consequences, because she experienced the wall and the situation was resolved by your much earlier determination to not put up with any kind of shit whatsoever, which is only compatible with top guy, which makes the question solved in her mind already, which makes her respond by opening up and giving you pussy.
So when there’s a real power play, already act like a top guy would, instead of letting know “a top guy wouldnt put up with this so if you continue I will be forced to act like a top guy would”. And when power plays start, already do the thing. I can be more specific with specific scenarios.
One that comes to mind was Penguin talking to this virgin girl who was trying to friendzone him while telling him that she liked him. This was a trap designed to make him chase and beg. I advised him to reply “sure let’s be friends, let me know when you want to hang out, cheers ;-)”, and to consider that lead closed and wait until she messaged him with sexual intent and compliance. She predictable sent a few “friends” type text which he ignored. A couple days later she wanted to meet and they had sex. Like clockwork. Why was his reply top guy? because he acknowledged her frame, but dismissed it, didn’t chase, and stood with the “hang out” only viable option, and “cheers” which means goodbye, it’s my way or the highway, but still non-invested. That poor girl had no chance.
What about indirectly – but still verbally – communicating: “If you don’t come out tonight as discussed, I won’t see you again”?
OH YEAHHHHHH
i was in paris for one week and i wasn’t checking PUA stuff, so i have some catching up to do. CONGRATULATIONS STUD!
“and have been getting laid regularly with Siren”
HAREM HAREM HAREM
girls LOVE a man with that chill, relaxed, sexual non-neediness vibe, and imo that can really only come from banging other girls!
siren gets the assist!
Thanks, Riv. Siren gets more than that… Jesus. She is an amazing experience for me.
On the one hand, it is hard not to want to feel “boyfriend-y” with her… although, it has never come up between us. Nothing like that. There is an almost painful intensity between us… and the sex is really showing it.
And on the other hand… I have a little better “vision” right now about how this goes, of how something this solid degrades into BF/GF sappy weakness. And I am happy to keep the rest of my game rolling… for those rewards, and also to keep my edge sharp with Siren… to keep that relationship fresh.
And then… maybe I’ve misjudged her, and where I am in this game…
Maybe… the ONLY reason I am with a girl like her, or have the type of relationship I’ve built with her, is because of all the other game and what it’s doing to me and my vibe.
>> siren gets the assist!
Maybe the rest of the hustling get the assist for her??
“This may be the most meaningful part of this post. The comments I wrote her that day, the fact that I didn’t panic (not in her eyes or mine), that I assumed she was only freaking out a little, and that I could reign her back into the dance… I could not do this a year ago.”
YES. incredible poise and composure and mastery. maybe wouldn’t go as far as to call it cheerful misogyny, but almost. very redpill. she is just a girl, meaning she is a large child. you don’t freak out. you stayed calm. that is BAD ASS.
also, again, no need to freak out because you have SIREN to drain your balls as needed.
oh yeah.
“I woke up this morning, cleaned up my place, and starting “leading.” I had three appointments this day, the Mom, Miss Thick, and then dinner with my very fucking cool cousin. So I woke up, and started leading… handling logistics for all three appointments. One after another, locking all those plans down. Removing chaos. This is the work of men. Basic, but can’t be said often enough.”
love this part.
killer post and i’m not even done.
Thank, man. I love this part too.
These posts are crazy long… because I am hopeless long-winded, but also because it’s not just meet — attract — close. There is all this other stuff going on.
I am trying to see that too. I’m trying to integrate it all into my larger understanding of where I am at and what I want.
“because I am hopeless long-winded”
i think you are a born writer!
KILLER POST
and yes, i admit, i almost started jerking off to the sex scene. very hot, very well written.
Wow, this got interesting really fast… So many clashing points of view and yet the common goal of understanding these ever so mysterious beings called women and – more importantly – understanding ourselves. I think this is what a good blog should be about: sharing personal points of view, always backed up with one’s own experience, and trying to make one’s mind fertile for the ideas of those who have walked, perhaps, a different path.
I am first to recognize my own shortcomings, that being mainly what Yohami describes as “tussle” and “drama” (Mafia style game, ha!). I do have quite a lot of that – that’s my inner misogynist and control freak trying to take the reins (notice how I said “lose the battle to win the ‘war’ instead of ‘game'” – so… tussle?… Touchée). Not saying that a little “chauvinism” and drama are necessarily bad, but each knows what should be kept under check. What Yohami said that definitely rings a bell is that of “not agreeing because of having invested for so long in a certain attitude or viewpoint”. That makes so much sense to me. Doing something about that is a huge part of growth, in my opinion.
On the other hand, I don’t really think there’s just one way of going about things, especially regarding women. It could be argued that each one plays to his strengths and personality (think alpha vs. sigma, and so on). Yohami – as I see it, he can correct me if I’m wrong – views the active chase of tail on the streets as a waste of time (which makes a lot of sense, given his personality and social status). I guess he leans toward alpha. Nash, much llike me, loves the struggle and reward of the hunt partly because he’s more of an introvert (again, feel free to prove me wrong) and leans toward sigma. Now, the question is: can one learn from the other despite their basic differences? Absolutely, if the proper personal filters are in place.
Yeah it’s all learning. I learn a lot here too.
There are girls who like the drama, and even the tussle, in such cases, do more of that, if that’s the kind of girl you’re into.
I learned not to chase women with argentinean girls. The more you chase the more they run away, so eventually I got the clue. It wasnt until I was fully stablished as alpha that I saw their other side of the coin – they are always running, when they are running ‘towards you’ it’s quite something. Argentinean girls are specially crazy, which also taught me to set the walls and direction very early.
All this to say that the little tantrum drama episode you’re participating is just regular culture over there. A lot of the girls there not only are going to be ok with the drama but will require it. For some of them make-up-sex is the only kind of sex. They want the fight and will provoke it.
“On the other hand, I don’t really think there’s just one way of going about things, especially regarding women.”
Yeah, which is why I prefer to talk about principles instead of specifics. Here Im always “pay attention to what she responds to” and “ask yourself what does she want”
“views the active chase of tail on the streets as a waste of time”
The active chase of tail is a waste of time regardless of time of day. Im trying to show here what’s in the other side and how to get there.
“I guess he leans toward alpha […] introvert […] sigma”
Well there’s the danger. Im an introvert. Growing up I was an omega. I was so shy I would tremble when trying to say hi to people and everyone thought I was a freak. I prefer to be alone than to being with multitudes of people. But – when Im with multitudes of people, everyone adores me, girls want to have sex with me, and Im the boss, because I learned this human thing and I mastered it.
The way to flip the coin is actually very easy and straightforward, but it has a price. The price is to cease to be yourself. The game is hard / and improvement is hard, because the desires you are trying to satiate are rooted in a frame, a persona that ultimately has to die so you can reconfigure again in the proper shape. So all the time spent trying to do things X way actually reinforces all the things that need to change. Chasing tail is a waste of time because of the WHO is chasing the tail. The reason why you chase tail is that you’re low value. Since you’re low value you learn game. Then game is applied from a low value framework, because ‘thats you’, and everything is put through that lense, so you’re introducing the bias that was preventing you from having pussy, into the method that is supposedly gonna help you get it, but all ends up being a distraction to avoid change, because all of this is driven by the survival mechanism, and at the bottom you want to live, which means you don’t want to change. I often paraphrase this by saying that guys are trying to get the rewards destined for top guys, while being bottom guys, and that doing more of the same wont work, and that actually being top guy is easier than posturing it.
So the danger I refer to is thinking you’re something. You’re not.
More specifically, regardless of being an introvert, if you’re not a dominant person and every social situation doesn’t naturally go your way, you’re not a sigma. If girls make you chase them you’re not a sigma. A sigma is a man who could be at the top of the pyramid but prefers to stay out of it, but still performing and functioning like a boss through his day. A sigma won’t chase tail on the street, because tail is below his own value.
If you see how women behave when they are in presence of high value men, sigma or alpha, you’ll understand what Im talking about.
Perhaps you’re right… Perhaps I’m nothing; that’s a good point. In fact, I’m positive I’m nothing. I’m not sure what you consider “top guy”, but I’m pretty sure I’m far from it. Just this weird ghost who is often found ambling the streets, thinking his life will be over all too soon – thank goodness! In the meantime, I do share the view that we, as men, should initiate the ultimately purposeless courtship ritual – I don’t want kids ;) – and that’s what I call “chasing tail”. I am aware that some women feel repulsed by it, and some love it. I am willing to play the male role of such ritual and honestly hope for the best, resting assured that I’ve played to the best of my current ability and my value as a man (which is not high, thus the focus on the numbers). I am positive the rewards – fleeting in their nature – are well worth all the nonsense – equally fleeting in its nature. Possibly one day I will look back and think too there are better ways to get laid; until then, I can say I enjoy the process and will stay on this path wherever it may lead.
Sorry – that poorly phrased on my part. This:
“So the danger I refer to is thinking you’re something. You’re not.”
What I mean is that whatever you think you are, that’s not it. Being an introvert, or extrovert, or x characteristics, that you think you are and are fixed, that’s not it. Whatever story runs in your mind telling you who and what you are, that’s not it. All the fixation and investment and all that you think you are and value, that’s not it.
This is what is “zen” about what I talk about – you’re not who you think you are. You don’t have the characteristics and limitations that you think you have. You don’t have the talents that you think you have. Whatever you think it’s you, that’s not it.
It goes like this. Life and genes and countries and social circles and circumstances gave you a name, a language, and reinforced you into a specific series of habits, each with their own little logic and emotional content, and you grew repeating these and got used to these, and you proved to being good at some and bat at some, proved to excel at some games and suck at some. And the story of this little life form doing these things has your name and that’s what you call you. That story.
The same life form in a different country, culture, language, under another name, different class, etc, would be doing completely different patterns, and you’d still call that “you”.
So “you” is nothing. Nothing you can define like that.
You only become something when you have exhausted and awakened all the attributes you have and tapped into the potential you have, regardless of where you’ve been put into by external and internal circumstances.
So when you’ve tapped from the bottom of you, to the top of you, to the darkest of you, to the lighter of you, and when you have control and dominion over yourself, and you can decide where exactly you want to be in life, and you have the freedom to be – then that’s something where you start being you. But that’s not something that you’ll be able to define with words as easily. That’s not “Im an introvert”.
There are a thousand different ways you can approach the game. You’re not constrained to one because of x reasons. You’re free to go up and down. It’s choice. The “you” is not the limiting factor.
It only becomes the limiting factor when you decide not to change but to get comfy. This not about you specifically of course.
“I can say I enjoy the process and will stay on this path wherever it may lead.”
Enjoy :-)
Thank you, mi pana! And thanks for the thoughtful replies.
>> If girls make you chase them you’re not a sigma.
This is much better than any reference to “the street.”
I know Yohami would prefer none of us cold approach. I find cold approach extremely liberating and versatile.
Best system I’ve ever seen… but it’s the man, not the system.
>> Yeah, which is why I prefer to talk about principles instead of specifics. Here Im always “pay attention to what she responds to” and “ask yourself what does she want”
So we’re back to principles. Good.
>> Chasing tail is a waste of time because of the WHO is chasing the tail.
Right. And this is semantics… because what I call “approaching” other’s might call “chasing tail,” and that is a can of worms… because the concept of “CHASING WOMEN” and “chasing tail” are not at all the same thing.
But is was a year ago when I was getting restarted after a long break. And Yohami kicked my ass all summer, and to be honest, I didn’t learn much from you then (mostly as you were so against daygame, and I knew there was nothing wrong w/ that model… wrong with ME, yes. The MODEL, no… that model is fine).
It was only as I started to get some women into the model that I could learn. And then I started to get Yohami’s lessons. Still very thankful. I learned a ton. Still trying to learn.
I’m still very interested in how I got over the hump late last summer and into Fall.
My statement at the time was “I will do better, as soon as I start to do better.” Meaning, I KNOW I’m unattractive right now, in part BECAUSE I don’t have any women in my life (I was “thirsty”), and I’ll be much more attractive as soon as I’m less thirsty. It was true.
I know I don’t get this whole thing yet at all… and Yohami leaves breadcrumbs toward the truth all the time… but as soon as I got some pussy… I got more pussy. I knew that would be true.
There are still many things about chasing I don’t quite get. But I’m much closer than I was before.
I have two happy girls in rotation now… I don’t chase at all. And I have a new lead (another mom) and I’m so “not thirsty” I ignore her messages for a couple of days and she comes back very affirmative.
MOM: “Would love to find other day to get together!”
She is a very cute mom. So we’ll see.
It’s those micro-bits of “chasing” on the date that we’re talking about ABOVE.
Makes me think of times when I’m walking with a girl on a first date, and she gets ahead of me and I stop… and she feels I’m not there, turns around, comes back, looking feminine and charming. That is literal, physical chasing.
In my house, on dates… I’m trying to make them do work. So I don’t cook the whole meal (even though it’s my house, my plan), I made Siren do the messiest part this week. Trying to keep an eye on the balance.
And I think chasing via TEXT, as you try to set up the first date or so… is especially important. That part is still tricky with new girls that aren’t sure of you. Best rule I’ve seen is “text twice” and if she’s not fully in, walk away.
But I think a lot of that is about how strong the pickup was, and is she a “yes” girl. I think what you do via text is often less important than the answer to those first two questions. So it’s not how to text… so much as as finding more strong leads, and being really excellent as you engage… being Top Guy in the initial meeting moment. I can think of moments when I was working too hard, talking to fast, in set, even this week… that’s not top guy. Of course those sets were weak.
Listening to RSD: “It’s like they want to smack you to get that smirk off your face.” That smirk is top guy. That smirk is about you, not her, so it’s not chasing.
Hmmmm.
“I’m still very interested in how I got over the hump late last summer and into Fall.”
I remember, I think. You had a good day where you had 6 leads or something. The same day you had firecracker and the pro skirter and honest and whatever other girl. My guess is that something else happened in your life that gave you extra confidence, which translated to girls finding you more attractive, which translated into you capitalizing on the moment. The mini girl tornado became real when you banged firecracker. Then it’s game on.
Very hard to do and I wouldn’t advise that path to anyone but you made it happen, so more power to you.
“That smirk is top guy”
Yep.
” being Top Guy in the initial meeting moment.”
The initial moment, the next moment, the moment before that, and when you’re taking a dump on the bathroom, and when you go to bed, and when you wake up, and when you watch tv, and when you work, and when you talk to people, etc. When that’s your normal mode then everything comes from a place where the results are quite predictable.
“That smirk is top guy”
i don’t know why, but the “top guy” name with that photo of the two tribesmen, i think that is really clicking and working.
i think maybe because it was a literal image of the top guy ON TOP OF the bottom guy, using the bottom guy to get higher status.
the alpha and beta terminology is much more abstract and thus less shocking and humiliating (for the bottom guy).
“But is was a year ago when I was getting restarted after a long break. And Yohami kicked my ass all summer, and to be honest, I didn’t learn much from you then (mostly as you were so against daygame, and I knew there was nothing wrong w/ that model… wrong with ME, yes. The MODEL, no… that model is fine).
It was only as I started to get some women into the model that I could learn. And then I started to get Yohami’s lessons. Still very thankful. I learned a ton. Still trying to learn.”
this is VERY interesting.
i agree, when the cupboard was empty, i think yohami’s lessons didn’t click as well with you, and now that you have girls in the mix, they do.
I find myself coming back to this post over and over again… Too much juicy stuff to take in and ruminate – both in the post per se and in the comments. I love to have my viewpoint on the world challenged, and allow myself to be proved wrong by someone with a sounder understanding – thanks again Yohami. This is a hard task – I can be a stubborn motherfucker sometimes – but much benefit can be drawn from it. However, in this case, let’s not forget who constitute our true source of learning: the women in (and out of) our lives, from those who are obsessed with us to those who look disdainfully at us upon approaching, roll their eyes and leave us with our dicks swinging in the wind.
Great FR mate.
Thanks man… I’ve seen her since, another great date. I think she’s in rotation now… we’ll see. She is a great girl.