The Escalation of Miss Slow | +1 Daygame
It took five dates… and even then, she said it was faster than she would have gone if she had more time. But she didn’t have more time. She would leave for a summer internship in two days, so this was it… and a darling girl surrendered to a dangerous man… and I fucked her.
Let’s call her Miss Slow.
The arc of this seduction stretches out over six weeks. I dated her all through my 60 day daygame streak, but never posted about her. I’ll start at the beginning.
When I look back into the history of WeChat messages between she and I, I know this all began in early April. This was sometime in the early part of my streak. I vaguely remember the day I picked her up:
I was out with my wing, the infamous Mr Sundance (you are a great wing, man… cheers to you, dude). I was just about to wrap it up, and Miss Slow walked into the drugstore in the basement of the mall. She was little. Asian (obviously). Had many of the external markings of what I would call “conservative” (I like socially conservative girls). I followed her into the store and opened.
She blushed. That is a very good sign when that happens. I still remember how cute she was in the moment.
This girl is an absolute master of “the cuteness.”
We chatted. Warm, sparkly vibe. She was demure, but with some zest and a notable spark of intelligence behind her dark eyes. She is Chinese, and she taught me a little trick about the geography of China (one I have since used in dozens of sets with other Chinese girls). I had her add me to WeChat. She didn’t accepted my WeChat add that day… and I was somewhat disappointed… seemed like a nice little connection.
But the next day she did add me to WeChat. And the game moved to texting…
Texting, messaging, the “digital message” (by whatever name you call it), is where so much of this game is played.
I said hello. I included a question and she responded. I replied to her reply. She did not reply to mine.
If I had let her go after she dropped the conversation (way back then, six weeks ago), I wouldn’t have fucked this girl. I will note here that a little persistence… can keep your bed warm.
I rolled off and reopened her three days later. She was responding, but wasn’t over eager.
She doesn’t live in my city… which is a very bad sign. I don’t think I’ve ever closed a girl (before this one) that wasn’t living in, or staying in, the city where I picked her up. And there were additional delays before we could meet for the first time. Lots of them. More friction.
But I was “working my lead:”
NASH: When will you be back in the city??
NASH: Let’s get together… Tea? Or maybe dinner?
HER: Hey Nash, I’m not sure… Busy with my homework right now
NASH: You’re a good student, I like that
NASH: [pic of a girl studying]
NASH: Maybe this weekend?
NASH: Think about your schedule and we can consider some plans…
HER: I’m not sure if this weekend works… maybe someday when I have less assignments
This ^ all sounds like a “no,” doesn’t it? If this was someone else’s lead, I would assume it was just about dead. As it was my lead (and the initial stop felt so solid), I wasn’t certain. Was this logistical difficulties or actual “resistance?”
I pressed on:
NASH: Oh… no fun. : ]
NASH: We’ll have to see if the little “spark” from when we met can last…
This ^ is exactly where I was at in my seduction… and this is me, thinking out loud. I was pacing my own reality here. I do that in times like this… “say what you see” works beyond the initial pickup (and can help you game yourself).
NASH: But I still remember you… you blushed when I first talked to you.
NASH: That is feminine. And very cute.
HER: [blush emoji] [blush emoji]
HER: You noticed that…..
She is hooking a little here ^…
NASH: I know we don’t know each other well…
NASH: But yeah… I noticed.
NASH: We had a very good reaction to each other.
NASH: That is why I am interested in you…
NASH: You’re cute, yes.
NASH: But more than that… We had “good chemistry.”
NASH: That is rare.
If you think this is a lot of selling here, I agree with you. I’m not kissing her ass (this is about “us” not “her”), but I am “working.” If you think this is all a bit cheesy… I agree again.
HER: Did you always say these words to girls?
She thought ^ it was cheesy, too.
Or, perhaps, this is her feeling my game working (and her forebrain resisting that momentum). And also her playing the critic… judging the “playerness” of my effort. She was still engaging… so I did what cads do… I dumped on more “birdsong.”
NASH: Hey! I just told you this is rare!!! Are you listening?
NASH: : ]
NASH: You’re a student… You’re into software… You are around a lot of boys…
NASH: So you always have the kind of feeling with them that we had?
NASH: I don’t think so.
NASH: : ]
This is me… laying it on THICK. I have done this before. When I know the set was especially good, I’m happy to point it out to the girl.
And while this kind of talk is natural for me… I don’t claim this is necessarily “good game.” I include it, however, because I think this kind of stuff actually does gets me laid. I think it did this time.
HER: [laughing crying] [laughing crying]
NASH: : ]
NASH: I like the feeling we had when we talked…
NASH: That is why I am interested.
This ^ is a “statement of intent” (SOI) from me. I am telling her “why” I like her. Sometimes girls want to know “why.”
NASH: When you have time… Let’s do something simple…
NASH: Food, some tea, maybe the art museum.
As I type this ^, I can remember that this was the point where I had decided to give it a rest.
I like the exchange above, in some ways… but I was “leaning in” pretty hard. It is a feature of my style of game that I run high effort seductions (“Octopus Game”). I am happy to do it. But I can tell when I’m over-reaching, and this was my personal limit. She would get in (at this point) or I would get out. I had played my hand, and now… we would have to see.
HER: Will let you know when I go to your city the next time
Okay. Good enough.
Because of my commitment to my daygame streak, I was gaming every single day during this period. I had other leads. I was getting new leads almost every day. I was very thorough with this one, because I liked her. And with my work done… time to let go and let the Daygame Gods handle the rest.
And then, two days later, the Gods delivered:
HER: Hey, I finished my homework!! Maybe will be in your city on Sunday’s afternoon
Bingo. And note the word “maybe.” Maybe, indeed.
NASH: Hey Miss Slow, happy Friday
NASH: Homework is finished and you’re coming to the city… lucky you.
NASH: Sounds like a fun start for the weekend.
NASH: I have some time on Sunday… how about some tea/coffee?
HER: Yup, fun start! Feel relax now.. I think I could have time for tea or coffee then
I was on a date with another girl, so I let the conversation roll off to the next day.
NASH: Hey Miss Slow…
NASH: Okay, tomorrow sounds good.
NASH: I have a couple of ideas…
NASH: Let’s meet at 3 PM and we’ll see how we feel.
HER: Hmmm.. looking forward to your ideas
Okay. We got her.
She was slow to add me to WeChat. She dropped our first conversation thread. She called me out for “gaming” (or overgaming) her. She had several delays due to her school schedule. And yet…
In the end, she came forward on her own. And she’s showing eagerness and compliance with that “looking forward to your ideas.”
I had enough to work with, and our first date was set up.
FIRST DATE was tea. I met her at the Gap, walked her to this tea-robot thing. Then walked her to the art museum. As we had fresh tea, they wouldn’t let us go upstairs, so we sat on a padded seat in the lobby and chatted. We never went into the museum… just sat there chatting for an hour+ until the museum closed.
Had a 1st date with a daygame girl today:
We got tea, went to the museum. We sat in the lobby while we sipped our tea and talked… Museum closed, we never even went in.
Excellent date. The main attraction was… Her and I.
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) April 16, 2018
Then I took her to my favorite hotel bar, the same place I have taken so many other girls.
I mentioned that she looked a bit conservative when I picked her up. She is conservative, in a darling way. She doesn’t drink (yet another girl I picked up that doesn’t drink), so we sipped non-alcoholic drinks on a comfortable couch in the fancy lounge.
How conservative is she? Well, I tried to get her to sit close to me, and she moved over, and intentionally put her handbag between us. She did it in cute way, kind of “showing off” how solid her defense could be.
And then, I was talking some garbage about how I have a warm body and most girls have cold hands and feet, and I tried to take her hand… and she wouldn’t do it. But again, she denied me in the cutest way. I held my hand out, open, palm up. And she leaned back like I was poisonous, but then she poked one finger into the center of my palm and then pulled it back… and gave me a sly smile.
This is her flirting. Prudish flirting. And it’s glacially slow… but it’s glorious. She is a adorable little thing.
And after I sent her home… I did three approaches to continue my STREAK:
== 27 days of daygame in a row.
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) April 16, 2018
NASH: You were very charming today, Conservative Girl.
HER: Haha thanks
NASH: I know you want to touch me sooooooo bad…
HER: I’m not that conservative, when I know more about the person
HER: I’ll feel more relaxed
NASH: But you have excellent self control!
NASH: : ]
NASH: Sleep well, cute girl
NASH: We’ll talk this week
HER: Good night
SECOND DATE was a week later, also a Sunday. I met her in the same spot, and then took her on one of my favorite daytime dates… to the tea store across town. It’s the same spot I have taken so many daygame girls, and it was the same place I took my first ever daygame lay, almost two years ago. It’s a proper Chinese tea shop, and I like taking proper Chinese girls there. And the tea is fantastic. I am still drinking the tea she and I bought that day.
Then I walked her around that neighborhood, and into a bookstore on that street. I made several moves to pin her to the wall in that bookstore, but her “escalation radar” is so good, it was hard to even get her in a position to make that move. She knew what I was up to, of course. She projects school girl innocence, but plays the game very well.
Afterwards, I managed to get her to my house. She was a wee trepidatious, but the promise of my cats helped bait the occasion. Inside… fuck yeah I tried to kiss that girl. So many times. And she would do this thing I’ve never seen a girl do:
She would retreat up against the wall away from me, pull her shoulders up to her ears, and then… she would put her tiny hand over her lips as a “physical block,” protecting her delicious little lips from my vulgar maw.
And she would look me in the eyes when she was blocking the kiss… I can’t say enough about this girl’s eyes. Her body language was a “no,” but her eyes would range from a forest-fire of excitement to blatant flirting.
The looks Miss Slow can administer… potent. A tiny, shy, prudish girl from a good family… shooting lasers of femininity from the sockets of her eyes. The beast in me felt well met.
She was excited, but seemed quite comfortable defending herself as we did the no-kiss dance in my hallway while the sun set behind us. And as she was wearing a hooded sweatshirt that day, when she would raise her arms to protect her face… I could get my fingertips on the skin near her waist… which would make her explode with more girlish, under-ripe sexuality. And then I’d go for the kiss once more, and she would kung-fu that little hand up and block my attempt once again.
Charming. Charming girl. Charming date.
THIRD DATE was another daytime date.
[BTW: Snuck in two sets before this date started… to keep my daygame streak alive. It was hard to do, dating this girl 3 -7 PM (multiple times) cut into prime daygame hours… and I was determine to game every damn day during my streak… even when I had dates.]
I have mentioned before how we have to take chances, and try new things, even in the middle of a seduction that isn’t perfectly solid yet. For this date, I wanted to try a new spot… a place I’d never been before (and actually, a place another girl had recommended… never got her out, I stole this spot from her suggestion). So I told my adorable Miss Slow we would go on a little adventure together.
The new spot was a Taiwanese tea house restaurant. It was strange, but interesting. We had Taiwanese milk tea and some salty pork snack… excellent.
In contrast to our first date, on this occasion… she sat quite close to me… and even joked about keeping me at a distance that first time, saying, “This time… no bag,” and she gave me a another teasing smile. She is clever. She is a fantastic flirt, in a “G rated” extremely “K” kind of way.
And as we sat… we had a spicy talk on the theme of: “How fast should a couple have sex?”
The conversation was centered around her little friend, who is a virgin. That girl is probably about 23, and she has had some BFs, but thinks sex should wait, and even six months was “too fast” for her last relationship. I explained to Miss Slow how I think most couples have sex in about “three dates.” And I’m sure we were both aware that this was our third date, but she never called it out. And I told her… “cool guys don’t wait around forever.” That’s true. We said all this in a friendly way, and she took it well, but looked a bit pensive.
Good date. And she and I had field tested the Tea restaurant, so I can take other girls there… so that was a good experiment. Mission accomplished.
Then, after we left the place… something a bit unusual happened:
In my notes above about date #2, I talked about the “no-kiss dance” we did in my hallway. And I mentioned that she blushed when I picked her up. Well this is her natural way. She is a “scared little rabbit”… and it shows. Her being “scared” is a type of sexual energy. It turns me on… and it’s also very easy to see in her body language.
So post Taiwanese tea house… I had her coming back to my place to “see the cats.” And we were on the train together, on a somewhat crowded late afternoon… so we were standing (no seats). We were still talking sex, and while she was playing the role of the “scared rabbit,” I was playing the role of the “dangerous wolf.” And as the train rocked back and forth, I would support her a bit, holding her shoulders, “showing her my teeth” (like any solid wolf is want to do). And she would do these teasing, demure looks when I would go wolfish, pulling back a little, in her harming way.
I was loving the energy… wolf vs bunny… masculine vs feminine… man vs woman… and then:
WHITE KNIGHT STORIES: I got "white knighted" again… while I was on a date.
It was our 3rd date. She is little, young, very feminine. On the train, we were talking sex and I was touching her lightly, she was "pulling back" but smiling… some dude came over to "save her."
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) May 3, 2018
I let the White Knight ask her if she was okay. I explained to her that, “he is trying to save you.” And she was embarrassed.
And then I gave that guy some shit (what a fucking tool), telling him that he was interrupting our date, and that he sucked at reading people, and he should improve in that area before he tries to “save” any other girls. He would barely look me in the eyes… and the entire train was on edge. I wanted to put a fork between his eyes… and if I ever see his dumb ass again, I might.
But all this unnerved the girl. We were on our way back to my place, makeout was looming… but the mood was cooked (at least 1/2 of which was my fault). I talked about it with her, somewhat, but she was very shy now, and a bit quiet. Fucking A.
There is no “good” response with these fucking White Knight cocksuckers. A bit of humor is probably best (which I didn’t do). I advise all of us (myself included), to try to minimize the interruption (if you survive it). There is almost no way to be cool in that situation… you’re wrongfully accused… not a lot of upside there.
We made it back to my place, and of course, it wasn’t romantic.
She lives over an hour away from me (which is another reason why it’s amazing I got this girl out so many times). I offered to drive her home that night (it’s much quicker by car), but she declined. We agreed, instead, that I would drive her to the trainline that is a direct route to her place… which I did… and I took her to a scenic view along the way.
The mood settled down. We were doing better. We were back on track. The seduction had survived.
At the train station, the mood was quite warm again, so I went for a kiss, but I didn’t muscle my way in. I tried a proper “c’mere.” The kind where I didn’t move toward her. I told her she was a lovely thing, and it was time she gave me a proper kiss. She shook her head “no, no, no,” but she had calmed down on the hyper-rabbit defense… her resistance was less certain.
She leaned in and gave me 0.001 millisecond kiss on the lips. Then a big smile.
I smiled too. Third date. This… is why we call her Miss Slow.
HER: For this semester, we don’t have Friday class
NASH: I can kidnap you on Fridays… and take us on a big adventure!!
HER: [crying laughing] [crying laughing]
NASH: [sent a pic of a man protecting a woman from wolves]
NASH: You and me ^… next Friday!
NASH: Do you like wolves?!!!
I was completely dying ^ when I sent this cute little girl that line about the wolves. Hysterical.
HER: It’s really scary……
NASH: Not a good date?? Oh.
NASH: : ]
NASH: Well… On Sunday, I promise…
NASH: No wolves.
NASH: Maybe one.
NASH: But no more than one, I promise
HER: Hmmmm.. Yeah you should promise
On the FORTH DATE… I can’t remember what we did. Which is good… this post is long enough.
But I do know I got her back to my place again. And that I got a proper kiss from her… finally.
And I know that I did it by saying “c’mere” and making her come to me. And that she still ran that “tight defense,” arms up to her neck. And that I had to lift her chin to get her lips pointed toward me. And that once we started the kiss… I had to tell her “open your mouth for me.” It was like that.
That may seem odd (it would have to me, a year ago). But it was great to be in my shoes in that moment.
The actual kiss was probably a five out of 10. But the experience of being with this charming little “K” girl, was wonderful… eight out of 10. This kind of girl is what I want. This is the reward I want for the work I do.
I had offered to let her spend the night. And I had been “future projecting” her sleeping over for several dates, describing the whole thing… from the “crazy monkey sex” to cuddling to tea the next morning with the cats.
She gracefully rejected that offer. I gave her a ride to the train station. I kissed her again in my truck before I let her go.
And that brings us to the FIFTH DATE.
It was a Wednesday… three days before she would leave for three months for an internship in southern California. I was running out of time to get this delicious little thing naked.
I picked her up, took her to my neighborhood. We got tea at the coffee place near my house, and then I walked her back into my place. Some time with the cats (she loves them). And then… I started escalating.
She was shy and demure, as always… but she would kiss me back. And I led her down the hall to my room with no real resistance.
And then… I slowly turned up the heat on her. Got her into my bed. Making out. Slowly loosening her clothes. She “resisted” all of this, but by now we know that that is her style. Her eyes were alive. And she was heating up a bit as I managed to slip my hand under her bra to one of her nipples… as I pinned her down and kissed her with more weight… as I got my hands down the back of her pants to her round little ass.
And then… I was at a spot where I knew the sex was close, but I was still “pushing” her pace a little too fast. She was into it… but she hadn’t surrendered. I hadn’t hit any walls… and I wanted to keep it that way.
So… I did some more “thinking out loud” and I told her:
NASH: This might be a mistake…
NASH: But I am going to give us a break and take you to dinner
NASH: I think you’re almost ready for me to put my cock inside you…
NASH: So let’s go to dinner and we’ll see how we feel afterwards
NASH: I want you to spend the night
I literally told her all this ^.
Sometimes… you go for the kill. Sometimes… a real killer is in no rush, and he can take this time. I’m working all this out at this point in my game. I really wasn’t certain if breaking things off the way I did was wisdom or foolishness. I don’t know. It’s seemed like the right move at the time.
And Miss Slow smiled. And she was soft and trusting. And I took us to a killer dinner. And then…
Back to my place. No resistance as I dragged her back to my bedroom… and I picked up where I left off.
Maybe two hours later… I had fucked her.
She is one of several “nerdy Chinese girls” I have dated that is at least a full point higher naked.
I am not certain about her age, but I’d guess she is 23. She was beyond tempting naked… delicious and young. Not “stripper hot,” but fresh as Spring, perfect skin, soft yet firm… the pristine landscape of a chaste girl’s body.
It was a good deal. And for a man of my tastes, in every way, it was “worth the wait.”
But taking the notch wasn’t the most important part of this seduction for me. I still definitely care about “notches,” but I can feel that part of the “thrill” fading into the background… replaced by topics that interest me more.
I have had a lot of sexual experiences this year. And when I think about what I have learned in terms of my sexual leadership as a man in 2018, my mind moves toward the concepts of capturing “low hanging fruit” vs “pushing our edge.”
If “low hanging fruit” is the “easy stuff” (girls that are perfectly your type, super “yes” girls, predictable seductions, etc.), than this girl was the opposite of that. It was a very satisfying, but somewhat difficult game. And if the slow pace reminds me of the seven dates it took me to fuck Miss Athlete (in Japan this year), the quality of the sex reminded me more of Honey Girl (the “virgin” that takes it in the ass).
Recall that when I first tried to kiss Miss Slow, she put her hand over her mouth and ran a flavor of defense I had never seen before. It was fun, it was friendly, but it was thorough.
As I got her closer to sex that night of the fifth date… her defense was similar. And as sex is a higher stakes game, and her defense was less “fun” and higher stakes as well.
For each bit of “sexual territory” I claimed that night, she had real, physical “tightness” to surrender before I could get there. Shoulders all the way to her ears, arms nearly up around her neck, real tension. Her eyes ranged from excited to trusting, but her body was tight as a drum. This was not a show.
And at each stage… I would push only up to her own willingness to surrender.
I “pushed,” I led, but my goal was about her surrender. I told her that. I told her over and over that I wouldn’t fuck her until she was ready. And that her eyes would tell me when when the time was right.
Yohami’s advice to me to focus on arousal as you try to close the girl (as an alternative to “battling LMR“) is one of the best lessons of my life. I did that in bed on this particular night. But in addition to listening to the rev of her sexual inner workings, I watched her precious eyes to see if her “heart was open.”
I would see those eyes lock up, or go distant, or look away… and I’d point it out to her. I’d release the tension a bit, make her look me in the eyes, I’d say “come here, come back, where are you… ohhhhhh, there you are,” and she’d smile and the trust would dial up and we’d move forward another inch. If I saw her “go distant,” I’d say, “your heart just closed up,” and I’d back off… and rinse/repeat until her heart was available again.
It was like ^… for two hours.
I am using some admittedly hippy terminology to describe the work I did that night… but this is completely valid stuff for men of seduction. I wish there were more lessons like this in our community.
All of this was like the second night with Honey Girl, where I thought I would properly take her virginity (and not just her ass again). Honey Girl and I were beyond turned on that night, we were on fire. And yet, she seemed to freak out (to the point of shaking her head back/forth almost violently) as I (unsuccessfully) tried to finally get my cock in her virgin box.
As Honey Girl “went distant” that night, and her “heart closed,” I did this “patient” thing with her as well. I made her connect with me. It was conscious and intentional. I know what “connection” feels like. I would coach her until she was “back with me.” I’d make her “come back” until she and I were on the same psychological plane. I didn’t fuck Honey Girl after that (I had already had her, a few hours earlier), but this kind of “psychological leadership” was new territory for me then. This was “pushing my edge” as a man.
With Miss Slow… I was back in a place very similar to the vulnerable spot I had discovered with Honey Girl. It’s some of the most interesting space I have ever shared with a woman. It was one of the most fascinating times for me as a man that leads women… and as a seducer. Fascinating to lead a girl like that… to really “hold her” in this way.
“The masculine value is to lead her someplace deeper than she get to on her own.”
— John Wineland
I have never been so patient as I was leading Miss Slow. And I loved the experience. Taking a notch is one thing. Giving a girl like Miss Slow an experience like this was quite another.
Beautiful. One of the best experiences of my life… no doubt.
And after sex… she fell asleep.
I had eaten her pussy extensively before sex and that seemed, on it’s own, to exhaust her. Then I put on the world’s best condom and fucked her to my satisfaction. And when that was over, she was done, spent. I had given her “the little death” and she slipped off to a post-sex coma in my arms.
I smiled, pulled her into the crook of my arm… and fell asleep beside her. I dreamt proud dreams. The dreams of a man that truly enjoys his work.
She woke up an hour later, maybe around midnight… alive again.
And she found her little backpack and pulled out a full kit and began a belated pre-sleep ritual of girl creams, and makeup removal, and the brushing of little white teeth.
Astute men might notice at this point… is it a coincidence she had all this “girl gear” with her on this date?
No. Of course not.
The next day I teased her that she knew she would fuck me, and she partially agreed. I asked how certain she was that we’d fuck that night and she said “40% sure.”
Another note about this girl… and her particular flavor of sexuality:
In the morning, I fed her some fruit in bed and then fucked her again. And just like the night before, I had to get her to “open up” and “stay with me” before I’d put my cock inside her. It was much, much quicker than the night before… but she had that same sense of tightness in her body, even if her eyes were a little less guarded.
I did the same as the night before, managing her mood using the quality of her eyes as my dashboard and feedback mechanism… and I slowly got her to “unfold,” to psychologically “blossom.”
And when I got my cock in her… she was wide open, her heart was on full display for me. That was true the first time, too, as I penetrated her. Slow, resistant, protective, and then, as the threshold was crossed… wide open, like the wind.
I asked her about that “openness” as I had her lovely young-20s body in the shower with me post-sex. I told her that she seemed much more available and “expansive” once my cock found the mark… and she quickly and comfortably agreed.
She said, “yes… it is different when someone is inside you.”
This seemed simple and easy and perfectly true to her as she said it. Amazing comment.
I know that comment is not true for all girls. I have seen girls go “away” in those same moments… but it was true for her.
Beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful.
As I said earlier in this post, I have learned a lot this year in terms of girls, sexuality, and my own capacities and interests as a man. And I know it’s unusual for a player to wait five dates to fuck a girl. But this year has greatly expanded my point of view on this topic.
I though I had already stated this position on this blog, but maybe I have not:
MY POSITION: As long as I like a girl, and we’re having fun on these dates, and are “progressing” sexually, I am perfectly fine waiting for sex. All of those conditions must be true, but if they are… I am fine to wait.
I was in this case.
“I’m not saying some girls aren’t worth four dates and that those girls can’t lead to being something special. But I am saying if it’s taking four dates or more you’ve got room to improve, and things could have progressed faster. It means she wasn’t sure about you and needed more time.”
I like this comment from Magnum (whom I respect very much). It makes me think. And just like in the story where that comment came from, I will disagree with him again on this point.
I think I fucked this girl specifically because of my game. I think she is significantly “K” (which I value in girls, very much). I think her outward signals would create disinterest in many players. And her rigidly slow pace would scare away many more.
I think I played her very well… especially in those last minutes before I got my cock in her.
“For me it’s the third date. Last year for example I closed a virgin on date 3, so this is a reasonable cutoff for all girls.”
Cutting a girl off (at any point) is a reasonable consideration for me. We are men, we set our own personal standards. But this is my second “extended seduction” this year (beyond a reasonable wait of two to four dates), and it was also a terribly good seduction. Beyond rewarding.
I like this girl. I like how she “is” and I wouldn’t change a thing about her. I fucked other girls right before and right after her (with less effort). But she was wonderful in all she required to step into that space with me.
She is hundreds of miles away from me now (at her internship for the summer)… who knows if I will see the insides of her thighs again… but either way, I am deeply grateful for the time I spent with her.
My deepest appreciation to you, Miss Slow.
I won’t tell another man what to do… but there is magical slice of heaven hidden in the slowness of some girls. This girl was never playing “games” with me. She is just slow. She is Miss Slow. And she was a fantastic experience. What a remarkably lovely girl.
I can’t believe that cockblocker story! Was he Chinese as well?
No, he wasn’t Chinese. He was mixed race, mayb 1/2 Asian, or 1/2 Latin? I’m not sure. 1/2 Latin was more likely, I think.
And I’m not even sure he was straight… he might have been a gay guy. He wasn’t all “chest out” about it. He was partially reluctant to get involved.
I want that fucker “dead,” and all that… don’t get me wrong, he is a dumbass and a tool… but I think he really thought he was saving her… like he had an obligation to “protect the innocent.” The look on his face when he stepped up was a bit like a man putting his hand in bear’s mouth… which is exactly what he did. Incredibly foolish of him.
This ^ is what happens when you hammer the normies with “see something, say something,” but they have zero legit training in sex, so they don’t know what they are looking at.
(The whole culture would clean up if we trained people in calibration… men would get better, women would appreciate it, and white knights could look a little deeper before they ride over to get beat up.)
And after several “white knight” episodes this year (I have had three), I think THE ISSUE is: People don’t know how to handle sexuality.
If I am increasingly clear in my SEXUAL INTENT, and if I give the girl a taste of that on the sidewalk, and her eyes light up with the seriousness of the mating ritual… people are going to see her “elevated levels” and my wolfishness… and if they are rank sexual novices (which most people are), they don’t what they are looking at.
That ^ is my theory.
And I would love the White Knights to crawl in hole and die (2 of 3 this year were women, BTW, not men)… I think I will personally see more/more of this. Goldmund had a great newsletter about this topic… he has the same problem I do, and he thinks it’s on the rise.
I am increasingly standing out. My sets will go better… but more randoms will get involved. I think this is going to be a part of the game for me.
Nash, could you explain how to do this?
Or maybe consider a post with more details exploring your own way of doing it? It will clarifies things for you, and bring out lessons in such connection for you and us.
I did a lot of that “explanation” in this post:
And also in that post about Honey Girl… I learned a LOT from that experience with her. I “walked her back” from wherever she “went,” back into “shared emotional space” with me… and she loved it. She loved me for it. We were much “closer” after I did that work than we were before. I proved something to her.
There are many ways to “love” a woman, and this is probably a rare version of male attention. Not necessarily better… but certainly different.
I am getting very high “marks” from girls on TRUST, these days (they are saying it to me, often the next day, or two weeks later, via WeChat/etc). They are calling me “gentle” (and they know they are NOT allowed to call me that, but they do it… and then call me “dangerous” afterwards, because that is the rule). And I am throatfucking them, and fucking their asses, I choke all of them… so what does “gentle” mean?
Gentle means “I can see them.” I am “responsive.” I am NOT fucking them on autopilot. And I’m not fucking them with my ego. I’m available. I am actually “there.”
How do they know that?
If they “lose contact” with me, while we’re talking or fucking, and I notice and comment right away… they have PROOF I am “awake” as a man. When I say, “come back,” they know what I mean. When I demand they stay on my level… it’s intense for both of us.
Here is another angle:
Imagine a girl that has fucked some guys, and some of those guys are “gone” for the sex. They are in their head (thinking about performance, or “the notch”) or they are in their own bodies (which is to be “feminine,” actually), and the girl looks up at them in that moment… what does she see?? She knows he’s gone. He has “dropped her.”
So imagine she has fucked a few guys that have a range of psychological states from “self centered ego” to “insecure.” And that some of that sex was “normal,” and “good,” and reasonably healthy… but it wasn’t “intense fucking her open to God.”
And then imagine that the situation is such that she/I have a good connection, and we have time to settle down and get comfortable with one another, and I take my time… and I look her in the eyes for the entire sexual episode… I am there for 99.5% of it… intensely “there.” And she can “feel my attention” the whole time… the way I look at her… the way I touch her… my lack of selfishness… That as I am fucking her, I stare into her eyes, and notice how she is feeling, I pace where she is at, respond to the way her body acts, responding to her facial expressions, leading her the whole time, I take her “deeper than she can go on her own” (credit: Wineland)…
This ^ will be a very special sexual experience for her. At least, “top 10%” of guys, let’s say.
Not all girls. Some girls don’t want “open” sex. I am not trying to be judgmental or hierarchical here… this is a qualitative difference, only, that i am point to.
And I don’t always have the time or emotional calories to fuck like this either… but when I do… it’s the best sex I ever have. Miss Thick and I were so deep into this kind of “eye to eye” deep fucking… it was a whole layer deeper than I had ever had. And I get flashes of that with other girls… that’s what I want.
It was hard to go “super deep” with Miss Slow on our first night in bed. But I insisted on “closeness” as a starting point… and I am liking what that is doing to the sexual time in bed. I don’t want to over play it… but when it’s good… it’s good.
Nash for the win!
There were some “GIRL UNTRUTHS” I left out of this story, but I’ll lay them out here:
Of course I asked if she was a virgin… and she said “no.” She told me she had fucked 1 guy. And then, later on, I rephrased the question as an assumption, and I said, “You’ve fucked at least a couple of guys, right?” And she agreed. She said “two.” But one… “was only once.” So that means… I have no idea how many guys she has fucked. 10?? : ] I doubt ten… but maybe.
And this other time, I was screwing around, talking about her room… then her bed… then what she wears to bed. And when I questioned her about it, she said, “I wear pajamas.” But then, the night we fucked, I was doing something like this again (talking about her new room in the city where she has her internship)… and I again, rephrased it as an assumption… and I said, “You sleep naked, don’t you?” And she shyly agreed. And I called her out on it, and she said, “Yeah! But, but!! You asked me too EEEARRRLLLYYYYYY. Now, I know you better so… yeah… naked.”
Ahh… what we learn from her here is that there are two kinds of “truth.” Early truth and a different truth that comes out later.
Good to know.
How you dare ask things early
If she sleeps naked, she’s been unsupervised by her parents from an early age and she’s been sexually active for a very long time.
if she’s easily come from oral, her n count is in the high double digits.
She simply matches your wolf/dangerous persona with the shy, conservative, inexperienced quasi-virgin persona.
it’s a role play that doesn’t lead to fast sex, because you look for/reward K traits and punish r.
Not necessarily true.
I happen to, for some reason, attract virginal introverted girls like Nash. I like them, although I don’t play the role of the wolf that is going to eat them and they are scared. I play the role of their guide into a world of pleasure.
I am going on dates with two virgin girls. One never had a boyfriend or kissed a guy, puts high LMR, even told me: “I don’t what I am doing in your room.” I still escalated to fucking her face and cumming in her throat. She said “It is better than nothing.” Meaning I was getting almost to sex, so the way she deflected it is to offer her throat. You might think it’s a lie, but she didn’t even know how to kiss, I had to teach her. She also hyperventilates during the LMR so I have to literally stop, give her a cup of water, then continue after she drinks because she is not used to it. I did touch her pussy and I assure you it’s still virgin. She didn’t let me taste it though.
The second girl lives away from her parents. Has a bunch of guys trying to go on dates with her. We slept naked in the same bed. I taught her how to kiss. She is wild because she is a dancer so she likes to tease me physically a lot. Yet, no oral, no vaginal, no anal. Still a virgin, unsupervised since a young age, and she has amazing impulse control.
Both girls have amazing impulse control. I cannot get them to do more than they are willing to do. They have their own limits and they enjoy the whole dance of resisting but they never go further than their set limit.
Maybe it’s a feature of introverted “good girls”. I don’t know much about girls who are promiscuous, I don’t seem to get them that far into the seduction.
The introverted k-selected good girls have a set limit of how far they’ll go on each date, and believe me I try to go for the full lay but the token resistance does change to real resistance whenever I reach that limit. It becomes a real wall that game cannot overcome because we cannot control the girl. It’s a dance with two people, and once one person opts out, the limit is reached and the dance can stop.
My assumptions are that girls (1) lie all the time to us and to themselves and that they identify very quickly the behaviour rewarded by men they desire and behaviours punished by the same men.
It’s a mindset that is extremely alien to masculine men. We have a much more rational concept of truth and given the competition and cooperation we engage in with other men, there is little space to play roles when livelihoods and lives are on the lines. (That’s why gamma men are so destructive.)
Of course we project our way of thinking on girls, expecting them to tell the truth. Nash astutely highlighted the two “truths” about her sleeping in PJs vs sleeping naked. This lie or her “good girl” role is not an exception.
The deep-throating virgin is also playing a role. The pretty big tell is in “It is better than nothing.”
She is fully in control and giving you scraps, because you are constantly rewarding her for the wall she’s erected and the role she’s playing.
I don’t buy it. I get some of what you’re saying…but no, this girl is not in the high double digits.
I am very interested in N count. I think “mid double digits” is AVERAGE for girls, so I’m not saying that is a crazy perspective, but I would put this girl between 3 (2 + me… which is what she said) and 6? That’s my guess.
This somewhat true of me… but I look for those traits AT THE PICKUP. So I don’t pick up girls that show R traits…mostly a turn off. I DO target “K” traits… “surface markers.” The sorting is done then and there.
And these girls ARE fluid in terms of what they can offer, but not endlessly so… and their SURFACE MARKERS were in place before I met her. So she is not doing this for me.
If I was famous, my type was “publically known,” and she approached me… yeah, maybe she would be “gaming me” by trying to play the role of my prey.
But that’s not what is happening. I picked her up, cold approach, and her “presentation” was already in place.
I will give myself some credit… approached >5k girls, dated 100-200 girls from daygame alone (50 girls this year, at least). So I do have some capacity to read women (infinitely more than the average guy). And I am doing the approach, based on what I read… I approach a set of “surface markers” that existed before I came along.
Surface markers are not perfectly correlated with a girl’s psychology, but they ARE partially correlated.
Why can I SDL some girls, 1st date lay others, 2nd date lay others, and 5-7 date lay others?? Why? I am the same me, with the same preference for K. If I signal “K” only, why is it that I find a full spectrum of girls?
It’s because there IS a full spectrum of girls.
“I want to do bad things with nice girls.” So I am heavily screening for K, and I avoid R. But then I escalate reliably with each girl… and they fuck when they’re ready. This is the reality of girls.
I have fucked 11 girls this year… and they are all… different (to some degree).
“R” and “K” are real. They aren’t just “a show” a girl puts on with a given guy (although, to be certain, girls put on a lot of shows). If R and K are real… then at a certain point we have to see some of the behavior of these women as innate and reliable.
And even if girls were “mostly show” (which I think for a man like me, is NOT true… I’m safely on this side of the Secret Society)… eventually, we trust our own gut feel, if not the girls presentation. Even if they were non-stop lies, at every level, we would calibrate to that that… eventually.
She’s a K girl. It’s real… no mystery. I bet she has done some stuff that would surprise me, and that she is capable of more that would surprise… but much of what I see it real.
At a certain point, for a man like me… I trust that I actually do have much, much more experience than these girls. I can actually read them, much of the time… and I am LEADING THEM much of the time. And more and more so… with each new seduction under my belt.
The argument that I am naive… is less and less likely to be accurate, with each episode of my education.
That’s why I wrote about girls’ alien mindset when seen from a man’s perspective.
What they say and do doesn’t match our mental categories.
As to surface markers, they are bait for the kind of man they feel like attracting at that moment, but this doesn’t exclude attraction from other kinds of men. The nice, conservative girl will bang the rough thirty-something jerkboy on the second date who will take her drinking in a seedy bar. He’ll arouse her using different cues, different routines and they’ll fuck in the bathroom of that bar.
Their behaviour is indeed reliable, but is reactive to our actions:
– when we crash into walls, they lose arousal and the seduction takes longer or stops
– when we go for the openings, they bang us within 30 minutes.
What I am saying is that the hungry wolf persona calls for her to be “scared” and put up walls that you wouldn’t have to tear/wear down when using a different persona.
First off… much respect to FLATLANDER. Good conversation, brother. Cheers to you.
I wouldn’t take this metaphor as far as you’re taking it. The reality is… I’m not overly “badboy,” in terms of my nature. I used to be perfect “BF material.” The “hungry wolf” is now part real, part role playing… as I nudge myself toward “lover,” as opposed to provider. The transformation is pretty complete… girls NEVER talk to me about “being in a relationship” anymore.
And this ^ makes me wonder… if “wolf” CAUSES “scared bunny,” than the opposite of wolf should CAUSE high libido behavior and low barriers to sex? Really? Is PROVIDER GAME the way to get a girl to drop her panties? No… no one thinks that. So… “LOVER” game, or “BAD BOY” game is better? Yes, I would agree. But “wolfishness” is closer to provider? No. No.
I don’t buy that the “wolf” archetype mean slow sex. If you mean “over escalating,” that means LOST SEX, not “slow sex.” The way you get “slow sex” is by being a provider… which I am clearly not.
And the way my LOVER role plays out… is escalation. I am sure I have some holes in my game, but I certainly know how to escalate. Yohami taught me to focus on HER arousal more, as a guide for when I was escalating… and that really helped. I am now a more calibrated escalation wolf.
I don’t think my form of escalation is causing SOME GIRLS (a small %, actually) to draw out the sex. I think it’s exactly the opposite… a guy with less experience, that was less aggressive, would have taken even longer… AND more LOST SEX, as he shows himself to be timid or inexperienced.
What you are saying is mostly true IN GENERAL, but I am telling a specific story about ME, my actual behavior, and actual girls responses to me.
This seduction was slow… because of her. That’s not weird. Some girls are slow. And I think guys that pickup outside of bars/online, that find more introverts… will find girls that take time to fuck. Krauser has a thousand stories like this.
When I point out that I produce the full range from SDL to “7 dates to sex,” I think that is a major clue that there is something going on here that isn’t really about me.
I will freely and quickly admit this: Some guy, could fuck these girls faster, and in a smoother way than me. That is definitely true.
But that ^ will always be true… so I’m not that interested in that POV at this point.
I very often am that guy… to some degree… with some of the girls. The 22 year old Chinese girl in Japan last Jan, 2nd date, fucked her.
For my part… NO, I don’t think “every girl can be fucked on the first date… as long as you ‘do the right things’ and go ‘full jerk boy’ enough.” Yes, I could be better… but I’m starting to have objective ‘stats’ that prove I’m in a rare class of men.
And we do ourselves a serious disservice when we assume all girls have malleable psychologies… that they have no personal patterns… that all their behavior is based on what technique the player is using.
This ^ is a terribly insensitive way to read women. I am not being “Disney” here by saying this, nor defending the “virtue” of women. I think overly discounting the personal patterns of the girl is as big a mistake or bigger as “hitting a wall” in esacaltion.
No, not all girls have the same sexual timelines. To think in that direction is to willfully throw away signals and to drive with one eye closed… not recommended, IMAO.
A couple of lines from KRAUSER’S DAYGAME INFINITE on expectation around HOW FAST SHE’ll HAVE SEX:
=== “Assuming an artfully-applied texting filter, a baseline expectation is that the strongest twenty-five percent of girls will have sex on the first evening date. The harder you pushed the r-selection frame, the higher this rate climbs, but you’ll never get it above fifty percent with YHT (Younger Hotter Tighter) girls (and that’s almost God-like escalation, suffering many wasted sets due to over-escalation). So build in the contingency of seeing them again as a matter of course.”
^ The “strongest 25%” will have sex first not… plan on seeing them again if you want sex. Excellent comment’s here from Krauser on over escalation, as well.
=== “Most seductions, most of the time, will go the same way. You’ll get her number, send a few flirty texts, and then set up an evening first date. She’ll be slightly nervous but excited and will be sufficiently attracted to come out on an evening date: usually mid-week. She may take a while to make up her mind about you (i.e., she’ll always reserve the right to say “no”), but she won’t play frame control games. During the early part of the date, you’ll both find out how well you hit it off, and if the chemistry is good, you’ll escalate and kiss her somewhere after the mid-point, perhaps an hour or two into the date. You’ll text her some more over the next few days, set up a second date, and make out some more. Perhaps you’ll take her home that second date, and if not, the action will probably happen on the third date.”
^ This is almost exactly my experience. 3rd date is a good baseline for when to expect the likelihood of sex to PEAK… but that means 4 dates is still a decent % of girls. Maybe SLD-4th date is 85%+ of girls. But that means some % will take 5+ dates, etc.
For me… I am beyond contemplating the “average time it takes to have sex” (the answer is… “it depends”). I think Krauser is dead on here… and all this matches my experience.
The ONLY QUESTION FOR ME IS THIS: If she won’t fuck by the “3rd date,” what then? Do we walk away from those girls?
And that’s why I like the standard I set for myself in this post: Am I having fun w/ the girl? Are we moving “fwd” sexually? If so… then, good chance I’ll keep dating her.
And ^ this INCLUDES the idea that she’s not the only girl in my life… so patiently waiting out her timeline is not the end of the world… I can still fuck other girls. In this case, I was fucking other girls. Same with Miss Athlete. One “slow” plate, along with other “faster” plates. Variety. I like it.
Krauser has a great story about a girl he went on six dates with… never fucked her. He liked her. He tried to fuck her. He can most certainly fuck girls. The lack of sex was about her… girls have different timelines.
The question is… will I fuck the slow ones too? Or “next them” because they won’t fuck by the third date? Or hate myself because “it must be me… this must mean I have bad game.”
I see more options than ^ this.