TYO: Making Out with a Japanese Mormon Virgin
Tonight… was an extraordinary night. My second date with a 23 year old Japanese girl… a virgin… a Mormon virgin… a Japanese Mormon virgin.
We had a really hot makeout on a patch of sidewalk in Tokyo tonight. And then again, a minute later, in a dark enclave of a closed clothing shop. And a few doors down, I got up on that girl again, on the elevated landing of another store. And then, once more, in the shadows of a hotel, by the train station. And one last time… because it was delicious… and because by then I was compulsive about it… in the last few steps before I put her on the train.
Had a very unusual 2nd date with a simple, but lovely virgin last night.
Made out with her on the street and the memory is sticking to my consciousness like honey.
Daygame… Will connect you with girls where you have nothing in common but chemistry. Amazing.
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) February 21, 2018
Amazing. Extraordinary. Sugoi.
……………………….
I will say more about the girl, and the night, but first:
QUESTION: If you could fuck a completely naïve girl… would you do it?
It’s not a moral question (not in this instance). It’s a personal question. Personal, as in, what would you personally do?
Let say, she was one of the most naïve girls you’ve ever met. And let’s assume you have met hundreds (or in my case, thousands) of girls. And with all that experience, a particular girl seemed to be in the “top ten” most naïve girls of your life. And in particular, naïve with a combination of childish innocence and compliance.
QUESTION: If you met that ^ girl… if she was virgin… if you had the opportunity… would you do it?
QUESTION: If it was going to be like most seductions, and you had to “run some game” to get it done, how hard would you work to make it happen? Would her innocence make a difference?
QUESTION: The most innocent girl you have ever met… would you “take her?” If you could?
……………………….
Let’s call her Miss Naïve.
I’m the second “boy” she’s kissed. Usually I’m not always certain about stats like that, but with this girl… that is easier to believe than most. Not because of the basic description of her religion and her sexual history. More so because of the specific qualities of what it is like to be with her.
I picked her up one night on the street, maybe two or three weeks ago. It was after dark. She was the 14th of 27 approaches and the 2nd of eight leads I took that that day.
She stopped easily and loved the stop. She is the kind of Asian girl that giggles a lot, and covers her mouth while she does it. She did that that night, on the street. Big eyes, showing surprise. And giggles. And compliance. In my notes from that stop I called her “goofy.” I wouldn’t call her that now, but that detail might help you imagine what kind of girl she is in person.
When I stopped her, I thought she was an artist, maybe… because her clothes were a little odd (art girls often dress a little strange). We can begin there… on the surface, with the odd clothes… as we start out on the trail of trying to understand her personality.
Her clothes were a little odd… because she’s a very conservative, sheltered girl, from a strict religious background. She is one of four kids in her family… I saw a picture, they are all reasonably good looking, wholesome folks. She lives with her sister, who is a couple years older. Her sister is a “childminder.” They share a one bedroom apartment, somewhere in the city.
Miss Naïve went to vocational college. She has a skill-based job in a hospital, working with patients.
I wasn’t that excited about her when I took her number. I sometimes date some edgy girls and some smart girls and some sophisticated girls, and this girl was none of the above. But I tend to work every lead. In part, as I get horny. Or I lack options. Or because the Daygame Gods (often enough) starve me for love and affection. And in part as…
You never know what will happen when you initiate an arc with a given girl. You never know what a girl is like… and even if you have an idea of what a girl might be like… I don’t always know what it would be like to share time with her? Or to share a kiss. Or to share a bed. I am so curious.
When we met, I took her line. And I ran my game, using a rather generic opener:
NASH: Miss Naïve.
NASH: Hi.
NASH: Very cool to meet you yesterday.
NASH: Are you always so friendly to cool boys form California?
And what I got in response was… a modest “wall of text” in return.
(The “wall of text” is increasingly of interest to me. And I’ll post more about this soon.)
MISS NAÏVE: Hi.
MISS NAÏVE: How are you doing?
MISS NAÏVE: I was talked to California man who I don’t know for the first time.
MISS NAÏVE: So, You are the first time!
We chit chat some more, and then I move in for a date:
NASH: I will be here for several weeks.
NASH: I want to see you again. When are you free?
(This ^ is a variant of Yohami’s text line, BTW.)
MISS NAÏVE: I’m happy to help me study English!
MISS NAÏVE: There is no schedule during the day 16th.
MISS NAÏVE: At what time do you have time?
Okay. I’ve never been hustled for “English lessons,” but I’ve heard the Brits talk about it. In this case, I wanted to be direct so the intention of the date was clear:
NASH: Hey… I am a smart man with a lot of experience… and I can teach you many things…
NASH: But I am not your English teacher.
NASH: I like you because you are cute…
NASH: And friendly…
NASH: And girly.
NASH: [And I sent an over the top girly anime gif]
This isn’t saying, “Hey, wanna fuck?,” but it is direct. I love the freedom and clarity of being direct. It may chase some girls off, but it puts the dates you do go on squarely on the tracks toward “man to woman.”
Her response was remarkable. And even now, I’m amazed at how perfect it was:
MISS NAÏVE: I am learning English conversation online.
MISS NAÏVE: So I don’t wanna teach English, I wanna talk with you!
MISS NAÏVE: Because you are cool boy from California!
NASH: YES
NASH: That is a perfect answer.
And it was.
So we have painted the basic outline of the scene: An older, white man from America… picks up a young, inexperienced Japanese girl on the street. The man is direct, but not overly sexual. The girl is sweet, and is clearly showing interest.
She liked the pickup. So I took her out.
……………………….
On the first date I had her meet me at my favorite coffee place near my apartment… about five minutes from my place.
In person, she was cuter than I remembered. An imperfect, but very young face. Those same awkward clothes, terminating in tights and trainers. I made her hug me. She was very nervous… visibly shaking. I took her by the arm and led her along, walking her to my “regular spot” for dinner. We sat side by side. I have taken six or seven girls to this spot so far.
When she told me she didn’t drink (very common for me), I had enough clues to assume she might be a virgin. I asked about her history of boyfriends. Her English is not great, and it took her a long time to respond, but she told me “one.” And I asked if they had kissed (because with this girl, it was not obvious), and she shyly said “yes,” a little shocked. And I asked about sex… and she said no.
A virgin. Another one. Maybe.
……………………….
An interesting part for me was asking if she ever wonders what it would be like to have sex? I ask virgins this all the time. I’m genuinely curious, especially for girls past 18. And they never confess to being interested in sex at all. I would expect them to be curious, but (with the exception of the Chinese Virgin) they mostly claim they are not. This one also easily dismissed the question.
In this case, I said, “Well, sex is all around you. It’s in so many songs. It’s in all the movies we watch…” And while she is mostly silent and smiley and attentive with me, only speaking to answer my questions, in this case, she jumped forward with, “I only watch Disney movies.”
I swear that is what she said. Okay, virgin girl… you got me there.
Fascinating.
……………………….
We finish dinner that night, I walk her outside and ask her if she’d like to go to Starbucks with me before she goes home? She agrees. We walk about 50 paces and I pull her in. And I give her a kiss on her soft lips. She is quite tense, and stares afterwards, but she took the first kiss. And the second. And the third. Her lips still unparted.
I acknowledge the kiss, smile, walk her another 50 paces toward Starbucks (which is very close), and I kiss her again. This time, prying her lips apart with mine. And I am tasting the mouth of naïve virgin girl. And it’s actually a good kiss. I’m being dominant and going for it. And her mouth is soft and wet and it’s hot. And my cock gets hard. Fucking hot.
I break it off, and she’s stunned. Shoulders slightly hunched up toward her ears. She’s holding my hand with no strength in her grip… like she is asleep. Her eyes are huge and her body is stiff, like she’s in a trance. And she’s 10% mistrusting, and 20% confused, and 70% swept off her feet. She’s not happy. She’s not sad. She’s overwhelmed.
It’s lovely. It’s real. It’s vulnerable. It’s not pretty. It’s sexy. To me… it was erotic… and a little amusing. I felt powerful. And turned on. It was all of that.
At Starbucks she orders… chocolate milk.
We chat a bit. I keep it light. I almost get her out of her trance… but she has a slightly PTSD look on her face for the rest of the night.
I walk her to the train. I tried to kiss her again, and she finds her voice and tells me no. I tell her that I am dangerous. I say it in Japanese, “abunai.” And I give her a little shove. And I laugh. And she laughs too, a real laugh, and she agrees. She smiles at me. At the station I give her a hug. She gives me big warm eyes and thanks me and she is gone.
……………………….
I don’t know how much I have exploited anything on that particular night. Have I exploited cultural differences? Was she being polite? Have I taken advantage of a girl that is so inexperienced, she can’t defend herself from the advances of a much older man? I walked home calmly thinking about all that. Pleased to be facing such questions at the end of a day’s work.
A part of me assumed I’d never hear from her again. But I did.
……………………….
A few hours later that night I get this:
MISS NAÏVE: Thank you for today!
MISS NAÏVE: I was able to spending good time tonight.
MISS NAÏVE: But I am sorry I can’t speak well, and I can’t understand everything you say…
MISS NAÏVE: I am going to speak English more well when we meet again!
MISS NAÏVE: Thank you so much!
MISS NAÏVE: Good night.
Okay. She is a happy girl it seems.
NASH: Hey…
NASH: I had a great time with you.
It’s true, I did. It was an odd experience. But a good one. And kissing her was a complete turn on.
NASH: And I know you’re a good Mormon girl…
NASH: But I think you’re pretty, and sexy, and I really liked kissing you.
The way I said that makes me sound like I’m retarded. But it’s all true. And it’s positive feedback… which is essential to my version of game.
MISS NAÏVE: Thank you.
MISS NAÏVE: Sorry I cannot answer your hope…
If you don’t know what ^ that means… then you and I are on the same page. What does that mean? I have no idea.
MISS NAÏVE: But I like your personality.
(This is what we say to fat girls. Am I a “fat girl?!” to her? And if I am… is she a chubby chaser? If I hope so… does that make me weird?)
MISS NAÏVE: Please invite me for dinner if you like it!
Okay. This is a raging yes girl. I’m not sure I have ever seen one like this before.
So I did invite her for another dinner. There was a delay of a day until she responded. But when she did, it was a clear yes. And we had another date.
And since then, I have had several other dates. I’ve gotten laid with a Miss Athlete. I had the Korean Princess in my apartment twice, and kissed her (I fucked her four years ago… I think she is hotter now). I had another sleep-over with Miss Athlete last night, fucking her twice, the second time in the middle of the night. And then I had a date with a singer from a minor Japanese “girl band” today… she was also in my place. Wouldn’t kiss me, but it was a good date (she is an exciting girl).
……………………….
So by the time I got around to my second date with the virgin tonight… I was feeling pretty chill. I’ve been recently laid. My “open-to-lay” ratio on this trip is off-the-scale miserable, but I have dated so many girls, and learned a ton, I’m not complaining. I’ve had a great trip. Within the context of all that, tonight’s date was very casual for me.
I met her at the train station. I took her to a pizza place I wanted to explore. She looked simple, but cute, again. Different colored trainers this time. I don’t think she’d washed her hair today. I felt playful when I saw her. She was very excited, and giggling, all the way to pizza.
Dinner was… unusual.
I like to talk about “Sexy Daddy.” For me that means embracing the age difference between myself and these younger girls. Embracing it, and making it a “feature.” I don’t talk about our ages, not at all, but I play up the differences between myself and these girls. It’s about dominance and mastery. About youth. And about contrast. All of that. I love “Sexy Daddy” as an archetype. I think I’ll have plenty of time in the next few years to grow into my Sexy Daddy role.
But this girl is so naïve… I actually felt genuinely fatherly towards her. I’m into all sorts of kink, but this wasn’t exactly kinky. Her naiveite is almost sobering. She seems so innocent, it makes me feel more “responsible.”
And that feeling of being “responsible” was a lot of why I had those QUESTIONS at the beginning of this post.
I like this girl. And I like what is going on between she and I. But she seems dead-simple. I’m not sure if she is very overwhelmed, or not that bright, or both. I like her, I really do. As a man of game, I am not trying to marry these girls… so that means I can love them for what they are, and the small space in my life that they require. And I do love this girl, precisely for what she is. I would freely and enthusiastically give her some space in my life. I am trying to do exactly that.
And I don’t think she has much money, and not because she has said so. She is in stark contrast to the wealthy, sharp, invigorating girls like the Siren and Miss Thick. Or the Chinese girl Miss Surprise that I fucked last month here in Tokyo. I think this girl comes from a simple, religious family.
She doesn’t have a computer. Her sister has one, but this girl never uses it. She uses one at work, but it’s shared. I don’t know anyone in my “inner circle” that doesn’t have a computer. That’s a small thing, but it’s telling. Different worlds.
I asked if she watched TV and she said no… only movies. “Disney?,” I said, and I smiled. Earlier in the night I told her that I remembered this from our first date. And that I had told some of my friends about a very cute girl I’d dated that only watches Disney movies. I smiled again, and she became a little animated and said, yeah, “Disney!” And I asked if she watched other TV… and she said, no. Only Disney movies. On DVD, I said? She said, yeah.
This ^ is a world I can barely imagine.
You want to guess what kind of music she likes? I asked about Taylor Swift. It’s a fact that all virgins love Taylor Swift, and this one does too. But she also likes… Disney music. It’s like that. She is that kind of girl. No overly sugary, or bubbly, but the canon of great movies for her begins and ends with the Disney collection. Amazing.
All of this strikes me as having grown up in an almost dysfunctionally religious home. She’s introverted. And she seems to be horribly underexposed. But she also seems quite happy. And any notes of sadness in this story are from my viewpoint as a man that has seen the world… looking into her life with wonder, and perhaps some judgment. Not judgment of her, but at the very real contrast of my life and hers, from the viewpoint and intimacy of sharing time with a girl like this one.
She said she doesn’t have many friends. She wasn’t sad when she said it, but maybe I was, I little, for a minute. And then I sort of coached her on how to make friends. And she sat there, while I talked, full attention. Listening.
It sobered me up. I felt… again… responsible.
And I was talking to her about what a “lover” means to me. And as I talked about affection, I asked if her family was affectionate? Once she understood what I meant, she said no. I asked if her sister touched her, hugged her, etc. She said, no. I asked if her mom told her she loved her, hugged her, touched her… she said no. She was quiet and simple here too. Not sad. No shame. Just guileless and open and simple… and happy to be with me.
And I was touching her the whole time, as I said it. Kino… yeah. And also, genuine affection for a nice, young girl. I feel very warm towards her. She was affectionate in return. Not confident, but soft and easy to “reach” at the level of physical affection.
And I hadn’t given up the seduction at all. But I could do both. That is what I want with most girls. Give her some genuine “love” at one level, and move her toward sex at another.
That is… if I want to fuck her.
As we left the pizza place, I wrapped the extra pizza in some tinfoil. I stacked the chocolate chip cookie I’d bought her on top of it (I’d already eaten mine). I handed them both to her, and told her to put them in her purse. She smiled and did exactly as I told her.
And I wondered if I would try to take her home? At that point, I had no idea. It wasn’t yet time to decide.
As we hit the street, I still didn’t know… but I did know I wanted to taste her mouth again… so I grabbed her, pulled her in, kissed her, and it landed. And it was hot, again. Extremely hot kiss. And she was 30% more confident this time versus the last date. Still passive. But some of the shock was gone.
I kissed her several more times. And each time kissing her, I was hungry for more… a vampire, figuratively licking drops of blood off of a virgin’s neck… but somehow keeping his fangs from penetrating the juicer vein beneath the skin.
I was very turned on. As I kissed my little Disney virgin, her breathing changed. And while she was obviously nervous… she was getting turned on as well. I bet we made her virgin pussy wet. I was hard over and over… as I’d start and stop the makeout on our walk back to the train station.
Something about her really turns me on. Magically so.
I didn’t take her home. I know I could have. And I probably could have fucked my first virgin tonight. Maybe. I don’t know.
……………………….
And I’m sure some of this is good judgment (at least for tonight). And some of it was me showing I am naïve too.
Maybe she is very ready to give up her v-card? I sometimes wonder if I am disappointing girls by not being even more aggressive than I feel I am. Tonight, this girl was not disappointed in me. Was I disappointed in myself?
My life is about me. And my game is about what I want. I recommend we all look at our lives and our seductions like that. This isn’t about what she wants. Of course she has a choice. But insofar as our thought processes go as men of game… our thinking should start with what we want.
Did I want to fuck her? Sort of.
As I strive to be a great man and an aspiring Patriarch… and… a self-serving rake… this is how I take a girls wellbeing into consideration:
If my stated goals are to 1.) Have good experiences and, 2.) Give girls good experiences… would fucking her TONIGHT be the experience I want to give her? One more time: If I fucked her tonight, and she felt “some kind of way,” and I was sensitive enough to feel that in her, would THAT be a good experience FOR ME? And again: Would it be a better experience FOR ME, if I waited another night, let trust build, so she had a better experience, and then I HAD A BETTER EXPERIENCE because of that?
Romantic calculous ^… and the internal struggle calculations of an aspiring Casanova.
My answer that night was… maybe.
That was where I left it. And I did some of this thinking out loud… while I was with her… telling her that if I took her home, I’d end up taking her clothes off and fucking her. And I tugged on the hem of her skirt as I said it. I wasn’t asking. It was communication. And mostly testing myself to see if I was ready. She is a very compliant girl… maybe the most compliant girl I’ve dated…
Responsible.
She is so passive. At least now she knows, explicitly, beyond any cloud of Disney infantilization what will happen if she comes back to my house. She has been warned. I’m not sure she has enough of a voice to stop me if I tried to have sex with her and she didn’t fully want it. I think she might be shy, and mousey, and overwhelmed enough that she would take it if I moved toward sex… almost no matter what. And that might not be a good thing. Not even for me.
As I write this… for me… it comes down to “what kinds of sounds she will make?” That is a great guideline. And it’s consistent with the theme of “arousal” that Yohami’s teaching has given me.
Will the little noises she makes as I escalate be muffled and meek? Or will they be breathy and warm? Perhaps that is how I would know if taking her was only about my selfishness… or if I could give her a good experience as well. I am happy to be selfish… particularly when the girl and I can both be selfish, at the same time, together.
If she is indeed a virgin… and I fuck her… I think it’ll hurt her, in relatively small ways, physically. I think she’ll bleed. The only other virgin I fucked cried. I am okay with that. But I want her to know it’s coming. And I want her to be relaxed enough to enjoy the lead up, if not the act of being split open for the first time.
So… I probably gave up a notch tonight. And I missed another chance to walk a virgin across the threshold of adult sexuality… which I really want to do. And I have seen a lot of girls that have seemed to really like me… and then disappear… even after good dates like tonight. But I don’t think this girl is going to run off.
And I think I can fuck her next time. But that won’t be the goal.
The goal will be… arousal. For her. And for me. I want to make her purr. And I want to extend that enough that she can feel some genuine pleasure, even if she is very nervous, which I am sure she will be.
And then… maybe I’ll fuck her. Even if it hurts.
Maybe I’ll fuck her, even if she’s naïve. Even if she’s off the scale sheltered and innocent. Even if she’s simple.
I don’t know.
……………………….
It was an amazing night. What a great experience for me. I am sure she had an amazing time. These are the nights that make me legitimately proud of myself as a seducer.
And I walked home with all these questions in my head. And I walked slow. I felt good. I had been laid twice in the last 24 hours (Miss Athlete, both times), so I wasn’t desperate. I’m sure that helped me to be so relaxed and contemplative, even as I had a tempting, delicious virgin within my reach.
These aren’t specifically moral questions… but there is some of that too.
I think I have picked very good goals for myself. They shield me, in many ways. And they keep me on a path where I can feel proud.
Would I have had a good experience tonight? I don’t know. I think it’ll be better if it happens next time. I think she’ll be less overwhelmed. I think her trust will be higher, and she’ll have a better time. I think she will have had some time to think about it, so she’ll be a more informed participant in her deflowering. In my judgment as a man, all of that will lead to her having a good experience. And all of that will make for a better experience for me.
I feel good about this. Quite good. Confident. I am sure I am still a bit naive (more than “a bit”), but I am growing up. At 45 years old… I am still growing up.
And I am left with a kind of profound “respect” for how different she is.. for what she is like… for where she is at in her life… versus my life. And I smile to think of how turned on I got tonight as I pushed her up against the walls of various buildings… to squeeze her little-soft wrists… and to suck on her mouth.
Unbelievable hot.
Next time… I don’t know. But tonight, was a very good experience.
Viva daygame.
Nash, I am realizing more and more that because of growing up on RSD, I have glaring holes in my game.
I want to spend the next 100 sets or so only focuses on doing full committed frontal approaches (I didn’t know that was a thing until I read your blog).
I will focus on just 1 product, apply it until I master this. So the focus is the approach until getting the number, nothing beyond that.
Which of these products do you think is right for me, for this?
* Yad – Daygame Blueprint
* Nick Krauser – Beginner Daygame
* Tom Torero – Street Hustle (I know in your review of Tom being a thief you said you did recommend his book to a beginner).
* Other?
I’m willing and focused on restarting and rebuilding my game right, as if I was a total beginner, so your recommendation is appreciated. I did not do 3000+ sets like you did, so you are way ahead of me on this.
>> I want to spend the next 100 sets or so only focuses on doing full committed frontal approaches (I didn’t know that was a thing until I read your blog).
I don’t talk about this much but… I don’t do proper front stops. More of a sidestop. When I’m really on, I roll up next to her, about at her 10:30, and I backpedal, pacing her, and look her in the eyes… and just smile for 1.5 seconds. When she smiles too… that is the best approach I can do.
>> Which of these products do you think is right for me, for this?
* Nick Krauser – Beginner Daygame
I like Nick. Sneaky Tom’s “Beginner daygame” is something I (reluctantly) recommend.
I like Jon Matrix’s Effortless as well. Good LDM 1.0 material.
Krausers OVERKILL is fantastic… but he is an advanced guy.
You’re killing it man.
—————-
From what you’re sharing here, she’s not virgin not naive. It’s an act, or, she’s roleplaying a specific bait to catch a man. This is what all women are doing. You keep thinking you’re the hunter. You’re the prey. Try talking to them more, they’ll reveal all this to you.
Some of my pointers
“23 year old”
She’s been under the influence of her hormones for 10 years. That’s a decade. Once a month she experiences a full week of wanting nothing but to be savaged by an alpha. Do the math, 52 weeks on a year x 10 years that’s 3,990 days of RAW LUST she’s gone through.
So is she naive and asexual? how she responds to sexual advances from random guys will tell you the answer.
“It was after dark. She was the 14th of 27 approaches and the 2nd of eight leads I took that that day. […] She stopped easily and loved the stop. ”
It’s dark. There’s a guy who has been talking to 13 other girls on the streets and is emanating sexual vibe. She stops easy and loves it: she wants more of that, that’s ‘hunger’.
“And compliance.”
And compliance. Gives compliance to a random man who wants to fuck her. Compliance means arousal. Means “do that more”.
“odd clothes”
Odd clothes means peacock. Standing out makes you a target. Who is she making herself a target for?
“MISS NAÏVE: So, You are the first time!”
This is sexual talk and she’s already announcing. Count how many girls tell you you are the ‘first’. Telling you you are the ‘first’ is part of female sexual dance, and if you do things right (aka you fuck them) ALL OF THEM tell you you’re the first at something. Which is why I laugh every time it pops and men take it seriously.
The ‘first’ is a lure. Men value virginity. Their ‘lack of experience’ is your lure to come in and have power over them. They will tell you they have less experience than you do. Even a professional hooker will find something you did where you were the first and the best, if she’s into pleasing you and luring you to invest more. Female dance. Hey Nash you’re the best man I’ve ever met! get it.
“NASH: I want to see you again. When are you free?”
Try reversed it too and take notes.
“I love the freedom and clarity of being direct. It may chase some girls off”
That brings more girls in (well done).
“So we have painted the basic outline of the scene: An older, white man from America… picks up a young, inexperienced Japanese girl on the street.”
Yes, this is a painted scene, a roleplay, a game. You’re both in it.
“I asked about her history of boyfriends.”
I know you love this angle but this is antigame – talking not doing, rapport chasing, etc, but specially because the story you frame as a result:
“it took her a long time to respond”
You’re facing a wall, she won’t reveal her hand, this breaks the narrative. She’s not going to tell you she’s banged many men before, you’re going for friction, finding a wall to bounce against, looking for the tussle.
“but she told me “one.””
Such a short word but it took a long time to come forward. That’s the ‘wall’
“And I asked if they had kissed”
I really don’t get this stuff, as in, I have never picked up a girl and went to talk about how many boyfriends they had and if they have kissed. I can’t roleplay that on my mind either, something ejects me from that scene.
“and she shyly said “yes,” a little shocked.”
Pounding the wall, making her break her character, as if you were going to find an inch of truth in anything she tells you.
This is about you screening each other, anything she says here is to both lure you in and make you do moves, while filtering to see if you’re bottom or top guy. Now you ask if she’s had sex. She’ll ask herself what is more luring to you, and say that.
At the same time when you ask them about sex, if they say ‘yes’ they are saying ‘yes to sex with you’, and she’s likely not there yet because she’s still screening you and not aroused to you. This is you, verbally, moving before the pace, before the cue, pushing blindly, so this is predictable:
“And I asked about sex… and she said no.”
There. Predictable plus a million. You’re creating all these virgins.
Your framing of the monster coming towards the delicate princes is creating this play.
So if you want to do the ‘science’ try other things, and see what other results you get. You already know what you get with this approach: try others.
In this case you now made a play that will easily result in the friction against resistance you’ve experiencing too. Try ‘not’ injecting this routine. And see what happens.
“An interesting part for me was asking if she ever wonders what it would be like to have sex? I ask virgins this all the time. ”
Putting them on the spot. All your virgins.
“I only watch Disney movies.”
You’re creating this stuff and it cracks me up.
“I walk her outside and ask her if she’d like to go to Starbucks with me before she goes home? She agrees.”
So naive girl stops easy with stranger man who’s playing to be a womanizer and sends direct texts, then asks about her sexuality and asks if she’s curious to sex, then naive girl wants to stay with this man and walk with him more.
“And I give her a kiss on her soft lips. […] and I kiss her again. […] And it’s actually a good kiss. I’m being dominant and going for it. And her mouth is soft and wet and it’s hot. […] She’s holding my hand with no strength in her grip… like she is asleep. Her eyes are huge and her body is stiff, like she’s in a trance. And she’s 10% mistrusting, and 20% confused, and 70% swept off her feet.”
Very, very easy wouldn’t you say? do I hear that.. she’s an easy girl?
Her lack of activity, her passivity, is the place she’s giving you to ‘make your moves’ and take her.
Hey she has never done this before. lalalala
“I tell her that I am dangerous.”
So you want that she puts her defenses up, no?
“Okay. This is a raging yes girl. I’m not sure I have ever seen one like this before.”
Damn! she’s a YES girl! maybe you have to play to be more dangerous to make her more of a maybe girl and regress some. Can’t have the easy girls.
“So I did invite her for another dinner. There was a delay of a day until she responded. But when she did, it was a clear yes.”
The naive girl says yes all the time and never tries to put walls. 23 years, 3,990 of unadultered raw lust, says yes to strangers who want to fuck her, surrenders completely, wants to go out again, so strange!
“Different colored trainers this time.”
Peacoking. Who is she luring?
“she took the first kiss. And the second. And the third. Her lips still unparted.”
Naive girl makes out with men she doesn’t know. Bad bad Nash bad man you exploiting pure innocent girl who has never seen a man!
“I like to talk about “Sexy Daddy.” ”
Ponder this:
You know that girls don’t do ‘contracts’ – but you like to verbally state all these things and rules beforehand. You go talk sex, you corner them with sexual questions, then you roleplay the sexy daddy thing – and you’re doing all this to a girl who already basically said “YES I WANT TO FUCK YOU”. This is what I point out as you injecting more noise, or your own walls and obstacles in the middle. All this stuff is not necessary as in, ‘she doesn’t need this stuff’. All the time that Im saying ‘pay attention to her’ and ‘what she responds to’, Im also asking that you stop whatever you are doing and stop creating more situations that will go offrails or create unnecessary tussle. She doesn’t need any of this stuff, at all. Her lack of response is also your cue: she’s not ‘responding’ to it. She’s not playing that particular game. What game is she playing?
Pay attention to what she DOES respond to.
Here in your story she’s been particularly open to all the physical advances.
This naive girl likes all the physicality.
“I feel very warm towards her. She was affectionate in return. ”
See.
I love how in your stories you take recollection of all the things that click. For me the fascinating part is how all the stuff is there, you took note, then you write it down, but then your focus is somewhere else.
You KNOW something clicked with her. But you’re more obsessed with your own story and framing, and not paying attention to HER – even though you did pay enough to remember and write.
So the reason I’ve been writing here about the bottom / top guy is because your bottom guy is in the middle of the interactions and not letting you take the girl.
All you have to do is remove the narrative. It doesn’t belong here.
She’s there because she wants the cock and you’re playing some other game, trying to bring her to that other game. A game where you face some obstacle but you’re dangerous and she’s a damsel and here comes the monster, somebody stop him!!
Man she’s right there. She’s ready. Just take her.
Print that above somewhere.
“She smiled and did exactly as I told her.”
She likes to being told what to do.
“I grabbed her, pulled her in, kissed her, and it landed. And it was hot, again. Extremely hot kiss. ”
So what do you think is going on here?
She’s so hot of a kisser.
“a vampire, figuratively licking drops of blood off of a virgin’s neck”
Narrative bs.
“her breathing changed. And while she was obviously nervous… she was getting turned on as well.”
Oh wow she what woot? woot woot what? she whaaat? she responded to physicality! no barriers? the naive one? who has never done this before, well maybe kissed a boy once, but dindn’t like it? the naive one who is out twice with a guy who keeps talking about sex but not making enough moves, SHES READY FOR SEX??
:-D
Wake up.
“I didn’t take her home.”
So consider this.
You take girls home all the time and they resist you.
This one is completely open and you don’t take her home.
Down there – it’s you putting your own narrative in play and moving forward when you find it. That uncertainty that you feel that if you should or not fuck her, is your experiencing the lack of communication between your frame and hers. You’re not playing ‘the same game’.
My guess is that you would find her more enticing if she would be resisting some.
Print that above and read it until something clicks man.
My guess is that you would find her more enticing if she would be resisting some.
My other guess (I can’t remember being bottom guy) is that because of the frame, a fully expressed, horny bottom guy has his dick bouncing against a wall by default – so you get stimulated by the wall, so you go find a wall to bounce your dick against. This wall seeking / tussle seeking is your roleplay.
Really nothing against that as fetish. If you *choose* to roleplay that, at will, more power to you.
But it just doesn’t match reality – and doesn’t match more girls. So the moment you’re able to get it out of the way, even as an experiment, you’ll see a DRAMATIC increase of YES girls everywhere. Your stats should go up by a ten fold.
“I know I could have.”
YES.
No barriers.
“And I probably could have fucked my first virgin tonight. ”
That part no, sorry. You’ve would have hot sex with an experienced but passive girl.
—-
Viva Nashgame.
She lost her hymen riding a bicycle – start believing in womynz experiencez, get along with the program.
Those damn horses! and bicycles! and alpha cocks!
You could be right or wrong, I believe. She could be experienced or not. I read the factors you consider, such as that she hesitated before saying “one” guy before. But that could be simply her being shy when it comes to talking about her lack of experience. And that the kiss was good – she DID kiss a guy before, so she has experience.
This is Japan, and Japanese girls can be incredibly innocent without it being an act. Girls from many non-Western countries can be that way, but Japan no doubt takes the prize many times over. This despite having manga lying around with debauched scenes. The debauchery is for the guys to consume while the girls grow up in a flowery landscape, media-wise. One of the first girls I slept with was a Japanese girl, and everything in her possession was flower-touched.
She’s going out with Nash – there’s no innocence here.
“One of the first girls I slept with was a Japanese girl, and everything in her possession was flower-touched.”
Yes, girls with girly possessions also like to fuck
:-)
Just saw this on twitter
“I want to fuck “scared little rabbits”… that’s hot for me.”
Makes sense.
“If I can get learn to force IOIs in scared rabbits… I’ll be on track.”
This is bottom guy wanting to fuck the girls who naturally want to run away from bottom guy, and bottom guy wanting to force these girls to like him.
So, any inch of success doing that will reinforce the game, then you get complacent in that frame and the results dissipate.
In my case, what was in the middle of my way was wanting ‘spiritual connections’ so I can relate somehow. I can see how looking for your particular flavor gets in the way.
When I stopped looking for spiritual connections (that required long rapport beta caring sessions) and started playing by the beat of what the girls actually responded to (what aroused them) – it took an instant, really, to change the dynamics with all the girls.
Here you’re screening for girls who will be scared. So you move in to scare them. You are smelling their walls and that makes you salivate. Then you want to force these walls down.
Kind of fascinating to watch. It’s also insanity.
But more power to you if you’re going for the struggle willingly.
“[…] wanting ‘spiritual connections’ […] When I stopped looking for spiritual connections […] it took an instant, really, to change the dynamics with all the girls.”
So what happened to that desire?
With some people you have spiritual connections, with some don’t. Has nothing to do with sexual courtship. With some people you can talk philosophy and read books, with some you can do sports, with some you can play music. Has nothing to do with penis in vagina.
Yes it’s there of course – it changed.
My desire for spiritual connection was framed from the bottom guy / beta frame, so I was ‘depending on it’ and it had to be ‘given to me’, and often I’d be begging for it, had to work for it. It was also ‘my strategy to get laid’, namely, I was by no means a winner but I had a lot of value in the spiritual side of things, so having the spiritual connection was the only way to ramp up any kind of sexual courtship since basically I couldn’t, and wouldn’t, do any of the other stuff.
Now it’s changed and because of the framing it’s something I can do on command – establish a spiritual connection or cut it – like a normal conversation.
With random girls though, better not to engage in spiritual connections. You never know what kind of karmic STD you’re gonna get that way.
“I’m extremely careful about who to pursue”
Then fucking a girl with HIV, who wants to be violently raped, on the ass without a condom.
I’d say, be even ‘more’ extremely careful :-D you’re letting yourself down with that screening.
My rule of thumb was banging without condom girls who could be at least decent mothers for my children if that even happened, and using a condom otherwise.
That and avoid the crazies.
“Again, you are avoiding a direct question of mine – about karmic std’s ”
I said ‘don’t engage in spiritual connections with random girls’. If you want to do so because you want to ‘devour their souls’ you’ll also get their sicknesses – but you know that.
She wants to be raped – press next.
She wants to heal you with her motherly pussy? press next too.
She wants to fuck after you banged a HIV girl with no condom? press next.
Avoid the crazies. Even if they are your type, as they seem they are.
Bang them but don’t join your souls.
If you want to join souls, scan for the elevated ones (yes, monk style)
>> When I stopped looking for spiritual connections (that required long rapport beta caring sessions) and started playing by the beat of what the girls actually responded to (what aroused them) – it took an instant, really, to change the dynamics with all the girls.
I can feel this… I can almost taste this happening. This trip has been almost exclusively, me, training, for this, with all these girls. I can feel it. I’m close… the AROUSAL thing. I’m sold. 100%. Best path for me.
>> This is bottom guy wanting to fuck the girls who naturally want to run away from bottom guy, and bottom guy wanting to force these girls to like him.
I am usually wrong to argue with you… (this whole thing is like a Kung Foo movie… as I say shit like this, to the teacher, over and over)…
But I don’t think this is what I am doing. I am probably wrong, but…
I think I like INTROVERTED GIRLS. They do make me salivate. I think I screen for girls that hide, in general (not from me, obviously). And then I give them a taste of danger, in a format that they can handle… and that last for three dates, and then they are running towards me.
I think that is what this is. They are into sex. They do want Top Guy. But they are timid. And for your flavor of Top Guy, you would not notice them, as some “cheerleader” type would be in front of them. And she would be “gagging for you.” So you’d take the cheerleader.
To be honest… I am much more turned on by the introvert. “Scared bunnies.” So I want you to have the cheerleader. And I want to develop a Top Guy structure for introverted “K” girls.
Maybe I’m wrong. But I think I am on that path.
The lust stare is never ‘scared’. Introverted girls still tune the ‘puppy stare’ when they are turned on. You can see that when they are looking at another guy who makes them horny. So with the introvert girls you can still ping their ‘puppy’ stare.
But because of where you’re coming from, if the ‘scare’ precedes their arousal, then you map the ‘scare’ as part of the path. Like the tussle has been a part of the path for the most part. My point is you can go for these puppy eyes in a, let’s say, cleaner way, with what will be better game.
Try to arouse them not to scare them.
Try to arouse them not to force them.
Check this out – with your athlete, now that you’ve already banged her, she’s not longer ‘resisting’.
With a shy girl, once you’ve banged her, she’s not longer ‘scared’.
Something changed in her behavior but so did in yours.
——-
Try channeling the ‘you’ who already fucked them, all the time, with all the new girls. Put yourself past the barrier, and they will follow you there.
>> From what you’re sharing here, she’s not virgin not naive. It’s an act, or, she’s roleplaying a specific bait to catch a man. This is what all women are doing. You keep thinking you’re the hunter. You’re the prey. Try talking to them more, they’ll reveal all this to you.
— Yohami
There is a part II, Yohami.
SMH. Yes… I am the naive one. It is complicated… but that is right. I’ll have more to say later.
It is painful to always be “10 steps behind” you (and reality)… but I am loving the education.
…stay tuned.
More on your comments later… I have a date now.
Thanks, man. This is an real pleasure for me. I appreciate it.
“There is a part II, Yohami.”
Bang bang bang
Hey yohami. A real life example here. We are housemates in another country since 10 days now. From the same country and same profession. She is 28, married. Scouted me out on her 1st day here. Proper hungry pussy, looking for it. I was here before her. I played along but failed to escalate when the window was open. I think she was ovulating then. Next day grabbed her waist and hair while she was on phone. She was neutral about it but got off the phone and said whats with the touching. I said i am like that, i like touching. She said no! Dont do that! I got up and went to my room. Froze her out for several days. Then p
Then pinged her and she said.. U didnt even apologize after what u did. I said what did i do?!? She said all that inappropriate touching and u didnt have the audacity to apologize!! (Pinging the bottom guy??) I said there is nothing to apologize. She left in a huff.
She has a friend here too. She was giving me all sorts of iois too earlier but she shut down too after her friend did. What do u think is going on here in this situation? How to salvage?
Whats the difference between crashing against walls and what u do that is going in and fucking her raw?
You missed the window to fuck her, so she framed you as more bottom than top guy (also makes it feel bad of making herself available to you), now you’re trying to climb to her pussy but she sees bottom guy creeping up – and she’s pinging it.
Short story, women are brutal.
Was the friend there when this one gave you a window to fuck her?
“How to salvage?”
Stop giving a fuck.
Yup. The friend knows she opened up and i failed to take her.
Also she didnt tell me shes married earlier but after i missed the window. So girls not telling they are married is dtf. Yes?
Yup. So. Play nonchalant and keep doing your thing. Bring another girl to the house and bang her. Then bang the friend.
In the meantime if you’re prompted to chase, neg. Don’t try to be friendly. Neg the shit out of them with a grin on your face. That’s what a bottom guy would never do so that will get them out of the trance.
LOL . After that u didnt even apologize episode, i told the friend.. ‘your friend is weird’ ?
She didnt seem to get it though. She was like whatt? :/
Before the window closed, she was being the sweetest compliant girl ever lol even cooking for me. I told her friend at the dining table she made all this and she was a little embarassed about it. Being a working woman, i dont think she even cooks for her husband :D She was telling me how she works a lot (meaning she stays out of the house mostly searching for cock?lol).
After the window closed, both are giving all their attention to a beta nerd guy in the house trying to make me jealous lol i ignored it altogether.
About that other girl who was asking about my health.. i posted a video of snowfall here and
she said: Go hide urself under blanket…its snowy ??
Me: i dont go under blanket alone ;)
She: Yea okay fine.
Ask ur neighbors to accompany u ?
Me: ??
She reopened again after this with a different thread..
Her: ok tell me something.. should i join [the college in my city] or [college in a different city]
Me: [college in my city]
Her: how is [another college in my city]
Me: i have no idea about that
Nope, that’s you missing your medication again
“she said: Go hide urself under blanket…its snowy ??”
She’s flirting, and this is an invitation to roleplay you’re both under the sheets
“Me: i dont go under blanket alone ;)”
This is good but you didn’t address HER. Instead of saying “I don’t go” make it a positive “As long as you come with me ;-)”
“She: Yea okay fine.
Ask ur neighbors to accompany u ?”
That’s your reaction to you not inviting HER. She’s still flirting though, this is her doubling down in she wanting you to invite her. You can play both sides:
1) – “Come, you’re more fun” (validates her)
2) – “They are also pretty so I maybe I will ;-)” (crosses her boundary)
You can do both, first cross her boundaries and offend her, then validate her. That’s classic ‘push pull’ and will offend her, but turn her on, which is a very tasty recipe.
* * *
“She: Yea okay fine.
Ask ur neighbors to accompany u ?”
Me: Good idea, they are kind of pretty ;-)
Her: (angry)
Me: Drop what you’re doing and come, Im waiting ;-)
* * *
What you did here missed all the beats
Me: ??
So she goes silent.
——————–
“Her: ok tell me something.. should i join [the college in my city] or [college in a different city]”
She opens you again so she’s DTF. This is her now roleplaying a future together, and acting as if your opinion has value
“Me: [college in my city]”
You chose the relationship route – but also ‘fell in the trap’. This is the problem with following a girls lead. A better way to handle this, depending on where in the relationship you are, is to understand where she’s coming from, go there yourself, and tease. That way you’re ahead of the game and now chasing:
If this is a sexual-only relationship and you’re already doing it:
Me: Depends, in which one you’ll give me more blowjobs?
If this is relationship that will be more LTR:
Me: City X has better schools for our kids
If you havent banged her already and feel like teasing her:
Me: As far as possible from me please ;-) (push)
Me: otherwise we may get in trouble (pull)
Etc. These will make her ‘react’ to you.
——
“Her: how is [another college in my city]”
She’s really into you, with this one she’s pretending that it’s about colleges
“Me: i have no idea about that”
Bang her dude :-D
All this texting and no action.
“That way you’re ahead of the game and now* chasing:”
*I meant NOT chasing
This right here. This fucking comment right here.
Is. great. fucking. text game.
Try this – fix the context by adding [sex] to all her comments, and respond accordingly. How does this read to you?
—————————————
she said: Go hide urself under blanket [to have sex]…its snowy ??
Me: i dont go under blanket alone ;)
She: Yea okay fine.
Ask ur neighbors to accompany u ? [and have sex]
Me: ??
Her: ok tell me something.. should i join [the college in my city] or [college in a different city] [to have sex?]
Me: [college in my city]
Her: how is [another college in my city][to have sex?]
Me: i have no idea about that
—————————————-
Do you see how you’re missing the beat?
“Try this – fix the context by adding [sex] to all her comments, and respond accordingly. How does this read to you?” -Yohami
i think this is a GOOD idea. yohami gave me the same suggestion with miss chill. when she said, want to have coffee, i am free before 6pm, i thought if i said yes, then that was me being a pushover, so yohami said, what if she texted you, “what to have sex before 6pm”, what would you say?
Yohami, could you please explain deeper how a Top Guy deals with walls?
I had an Insta-date today with a girl that is exactly my type, she’s a 22 years old erotic model, guitar player, painter, and medical student (I know that sounds incredible, I didn’t even know until she started showing me her instagram of her naked pictures, guitar play videos, paintings, and work at the hospital lol I get lucky like this sometimes since I approach every day, so can every now and then find amazing girls.)
Physically, she was totally compliant. She started talking about the subject of sex, she talked about how she thinks of herself as a kinky girl, how open minded she is about sex, so that is a DTF signal OR it can be Beta Bait too to see whether I am a horny Bottom Guy.
At the same time, she was telling me that her heart was broken so she just wants to be friends with me, that she friend zones all men. I tussled with her over this, because I assumed that not commenting on it means passive acceptance.
So physically it was VERY ON. But in the talk, she sent mixed signals.
What does a Top Guy do when he brushes against a wall, like in my case her saying she is only interested in friendship?
Does a Top Guy ignore her words or just say “we will see,” and keeps on turning her on physically or whatever arousal points he found?
For example, I tussled with her because she told me “we can meet next week, as friends, and go out in the city,” all this while sexual tension and physical compliance was high. So physically she was DTF but her words were friendzoning me.
I do not want to tussle anymore, but I also believe (and I am willing to be corrected) that if I let her say friendzone shit like that it is a passive acceptance of it which would be Bottom Guy.
Again, this is just a specific case, I am talking in general: when girls try to establish frames I do not like, I clash with them. It is tussle. So what is the standard response? To simply ignore it and focus on arousal?
Then, where does ignoring it work with the rule of punishing what you do not like?
Because such frames piss me off so I told this girl I will never be her friend, she can take it or leave it. If she does out with me on a date again, I will fuck her brains out.
I might have lost her or not. Either way, it is a good learning opportunity: What does a Top Guy do to not clash frames and tussle this way?
Anyways, I told her to not respond to my texts if we’re going to just be friends. And after our date, this was the texting:
Me: I enjoyed it.
Her: I am glad :) :)
“Yohami, could you please explain deeper how a Top Guy deals with walls?….”
excellent question and example, bluevalentine.
Yohami, I think you didn’t my comment above because too many comments came after it.
I think it is important and very beneficial to us all. Could you please check it out?
It starts at “Yohami, could you please explain deeper how a Top Guy deals with walls?”
An update: So this morning I wanted to ping her, and I sent her this:
Me: I know I was in your dreams ;)
Her: To be honest, no, coz I already have a lover [Kind of sad emoji] but you are a nice guy, it was a very positive conversation.
—-
I did not answer.
During the date, the sexual tension was VERY high and she was compliant.
Yohami, should I let it go and move on?
Or do you recommend I text something back?
I am willing to only text back what you say, and learn in the process. So if you would like to tell me what to text this girl and I will post her responses here. I think it would be very instructive to everyone and to me it can show the power of Top Guy texting.
I guess it’s fine, i’ll just frame clash with all the hoes. ;)
Anyway, I am improving my Top Guyness. I scrambled her brain Top Guy style :)
So here is the full text:
Me: I enjoyed it.
Her: I am glad :) :)
Me (Next day): I know I was in your dreams ;)
Her: To be honest, no, coz I already have a lover [Kind of sad emoji] but you are a nice guy, it was a very positive conversation.
Me (After some hours): Nice. It makes our secret meetings more exciting.
Me: Like spies ;) [In the meeting, I teased her for looking like a spy, so nice call-back humor]
Her: Hahahahah
Nash, fantastic writing, as usual. Keep it up, man! I will be waiting for the second part. Also, incredible analysis from the master Yohami.
@Yohami, I wanted to ask you about a situation with a girl I met on Tinder. I played kind of a “cocky-funny” style, which is the style I usually so and invited her rather quickly for a date. We met at a bar and the date was absolutely fantastic (before the date, I sent her some audios via WhatsApp and she responded pretty well). At the bar, it was all comfort and some rapport, and she started the kino super quickly. It made things sooooo easy for me (I actually felt pretty good before and during the date, and I think she saw that. I was shining). After two hours, or something, I went for the kiss. Landed two or three but she told me she was a bit timid (she’s 29, psychologist, I thought she was gonna be way more quick about it, but it seems I was wrong. By the way, I’m 30). I took her to her home and made out in the car; super horny make out with some serious touching (so serious she kind of closed her legs because she thought I was going to her pussy).
Audio next day, told her it was a very good night and that I wanted to see her again (again, direct, calm, funny). She responded very well, said she spent a nice night and that she definitely wanted to see me again. Kept talking over WhatsApp the following days (some weird messages from her, saying that normally she realizes when a guy is “like me”, that she never gives out her phone number to guys like me). Then, she removed me from her contacts, but I didn’t care and kept talking, next day, she added me again, as if nothing (I don’t know if she knows I know she deleted me). Long story short, again, I went for the second date. Very close to her house. Second date was even better than the first. We were just making while in the bar, drinking and eating some nachos. At 23:00, we went to her house. Sat at the sofa and started making out furiously, while in the background Led Zepellin was playing. Five minutes later, she was naked over me, I was sucking her boobs, touching and kissing her everywhere, etc. She said “let’s go to the bed” and we did, of course. I dived into her pussy and started giving her oral sex for 15-20 minutes. She loved every minute of it, I know. She asked me to go into her, so I grabbed a condom and we started fucking. 10-15 minutes into the fucking, she says “I can’t, sorry”. I kept licking her, touching her, like I didn’t hear, and again she said “I can’t, sorry”. She was not crying, but reeeeeeally close. I took the situation normally, as if anything, grabbed a glass of water, got into the bed with her and talked about shit for 10-15 minutes before going home.
Next day, I sent her an audio again, saying it was a really good night, that I loved the kissing and her body (she has a tremendous body). I then told her that I’m sure she’s having some “issues” or that she’s thinking about something and that she can talk with me about anything because I love to talk about anything in depth. She told me she had a fantastic night, even better than the first one, and that that’s why she invited me to her house. She then told me she’s going though some issues, yes, and that we’ll have time to talk about that if the topic arises again.
Jesus, I love to write. Sorry for the huge message. I have my theories about what happened there (I’m sure it has to do with her and not with me), but I’ll leave the master to address the situation. My take here is that she’s a LTR girl, right? Seems pretty clear to me. I’m not looking for a girlfriend right now; I’m looking for a sexual partner with whom I can talk about everything (she’s pretty intelligent and a good talker). Did I showed myself as too “boyfriend” like? Should have I taken another path? Do you see any big mistake in my game?
There’s no rush for the answer, and I’ll fully understand if you don’t have the time to reply to this huge thread. All of you guys, can give me your feedback; it’ll be more than appreciated!
Big hugs from Argentina, guys!
Dardo
By the way, second date and sex was Sunday, and she’s going to Cuba tomorrow, Wednesday. I also think that trip has something to do with her reaction that night.
Man she sounds like the regular argentinean ‘histerica’ cheating on the husband. I don’t think she saw you as bf, if anything she was pushing you into ‘fuckboi’ category, twists and turns included to squeeze every drop of drama out of it. Las minas estan locas.
Stories like that is why I stopped banging argentineans and moved to ‘date’ travelers and foreigners.
With this one, keep playing bad boy if you like her.
“My take here is that she’s a LTR girl, right?”
If living in Argentina for over a decade taught me anything, she has one or two concurrent LTRs already and you are the scapegoat for some drama play.
Play the badboy and don’t get too involved.
Good luck!
Hey, Yohami. Thanks, man! That was not my take, as you have already guessed, but I’ll take your view fully into consideration. I’ll freeze the message thing now she’s away and see what she does. I’m sure she has something going on (another fuckboy, an ex, something) so I’m playing the “cool, calm, guy with options”, though I think I’ve some beta boy part there trying to fuck me up.
Thanks again for taking the time to read everything and give me your opinion. What would you recommend as a good way to find foreigners here in Argentina?
Thanks! And… las minas están locas, yes ;)
Dardo
To meet girls from abroad – go to where they are. Most hostels have parties every week, then there are barcrawls, Mundo Lingo https://www.facebook.com/groups/ML.BuenosAires/about/, and the weekly meetings for Couch Surfing
————————-
From your story what stands out the most is the drama she engaged in before the date – removing you from her contacts and all, calling you ‘one of these guys’ but then she meets and calls it a great experience, then she fucks but cries on the middle. I would press NEXT, but if you’re having a good time, then remain as detached as possible, it’s a rollercoaster :-)
“10-15 minutes into the fucking, she says “I can’t, sorry”.”
Oh, man. That actually happened to me once, with a very emotional girl. Just before then I had been playing a music video on YouTube that apparently reminded her of her ex-boyfriend who she used to live with, and it was one of their favorite singers. Then having sex was apparently too much. Which she decided during sex.
The girl in your case was a psychologist, you have an answer right there. On TV psychologists are thoughtful and analytical. In real life psychology class attracts mostly nutcases. I have met several of them over the years, living in a university town. They go up and down, quick to accuse. One girl, one of the few non-nutcases, confirmed that this is how it is, and she hated being surrounded by emotional weirdos. They all have to go to therapy – all the students. Because the university knows they’re bound to have problems themselves. Coincidentally psychology is also the only field where the professors are more leftist than even sociology professors, a study shows.
Hmmm I think the truth probably lies somewhere between you and Yohami’s account… On one hand, I’m skeptical of taking at face value what she’s said, especially operating within the monster-princess, “abunai” hunter-scared rabbit frame that emphasizes her innocence and within a cultural/religious context where sexual expression is discouraged or shamed (Actually I’m guessing here, I don’t know anything about Japanese mormonism…).
Plus, her mousiness and receptiveness make me think she’s probably yielded to other guys and moreover makes me think it’s likely that she’s been taken advantage of to the degree that she’s likely had sexual experiences that she doesn’t want herself to count/remember because they were non or very loosely consensual. Also, I’ve found that cultural naiveté e.g., only watches Disney is only weakly correlated with sexual naiveté so the fact that she is very culturally naive I don’t think means too much in this context. All that plus her text ‘game’ make me think she’s a bit more experienced than she gives off…
But….I think Yohami may be stretching things a bit. It does seem she was genuinely nervous when you kissed her etc and some of that can be an act or exaggerated but it sounds legit. And I do think there’s this fallacy we daygamers often have where we overestimate the degree to which girls are approached and given sexual opportunities that are aggressive…but calibrated. I think for girls who travel a lot, are dressed liberally/scantily clad etc they are approached a lot. But for a girl that lives a sheltered existence and dresses conservatively…I don’t think she’s encountering men like you on a super regular basis.
But while it’s a fun intellectual exercise to guess how experienced she is, I don’t think it matters much at the end of the day…
What interests me more is this… originally my take from other posts you’ve written was that you were unconsciously screening for girls that are less sexually available. Though some of this may be going on, I think I was mostly wrong. Instead I think what’s going on is that this monster-princess, hunter-scared rabbit frame that you create encourages resistance, and encourages her to exaggerate her naiveté…or at least show you that side of her and not other sides. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it if it turns you but just keep in mind it may put up barriers or slow down sex. And if you’re operating in that frame I’d be *especially* wary of what she says as per how much experience she’s had.
Nash, off-topic, but you often recommend Okamoto .003 condoms.
Well, recently I was running low (good problems to have, right?) so I ordered some from eBay to try them out.
First try, I’m banging my FWB and I busted right through the head of the condom. Had nothing but a ring around my dick.
Now, any hard dick jokes aside, I just wanted to post this experience here to warn other guys…
I have not had this problem with the Okamoto Crowns.
Clarification: these were actually the .004s, which are thicker than the .003s. So even more troubling.
Hey man…
I have used >200 .03s, and never had an issue. Not once.
And here in TOKYO… I am using .01s… which are fantastic… also no issues.
Sundance just tried the 0.03s, and he is also on board.
…..
>> First try, I’m banging my FWB and I busted right through the head of the condom. Had nothing but a ring around my dick.
We can get a little more graphic here, and I’ll say condoms dry some girls out… My EX the Tokyo Queen and I used 0.03s every single time. For two years. If she was dry, for some reason… the condom would “stretch” around my cock even more than normal… never a problem.
Okamotos are the “Trojans” of Japan. They are extremely common here… the guy at the convenience store was joking about them with me last week.
I am very careful careful with condoms… for obvious reasons… and I have never been worried in 0.03s.
So yesterday afternoon I got the number of a gorgeous rich girl in high heels shopping alone. The interaction was pretty fast. This is the text:
Me: BlueValentine :)
Her: :)
Me (Next day): Adventure? ;)
Her: Yes ;)
Me: Tomorrow?
—
I said tomorrow because I already have a date today.
Smoother :-)
So how many girls do you talk to and how many of these give you their contacts? looks like it’s more than the infamous %2
I do pre-approaching so when I walk around I keep focused eye contact on all the girls, and when a girl keeps eye contact or light up, I approach her. It’s the “next thing,” that Krauser talks about in Daygame Infinite, where rather than facing a sea of rejection you only approach girls who are interested because they keep eye contact with you.
So I do not get bad rejections or girls making me think I am bottom guy. All girls are nice. About 1/3 like to chat but say they have a boyfriend, 1/3 I might approach by mistake because the eye contact is not clear whether they are interested or wondering why the fuck is this guy unwaveringly looking at me in the eyes, and I get 1/3 numbers.
So 9 approaches, 3 numbers, 6 nice interactions and 3 neutral.
When you approach blindly, it is 1 number out of 10 or 15 approaches. It is hard, it breaks your spirit especially girls who give harsh rejections that makes you think you are a criminal robbing them lol.
Another benefit is when I approach girls I screened for interest my approach is stronger because I know she likes me. So I am not “trying to make her like me” which happens when you approach all girls, because the majority do not like you, so it feels like “I hope this one likes me, let me be nice!”. That stopped.
Krauser is right. His new book is about advanced calibration, and one of the things is to not embrace the grind, but to pre-approach with your eyes and only go for interested girls.
So now I might approach 5 girls, get 4 nice interested interactions and 2 numbers (the other 2 have fiance, married, BF and just want male attention), rather than need to approach 30 girls, get rejected 28 times to get 2 numbers like Nash does.
“pre-approach with your eyes and only go for interested girls.”
Well that sounds like the purest common sense to me.
Pre-approach = ramp / flirt.
Only go for interested girls = Double down on arousal / go for the opening / move forward when they are going to say yes.
——
The next thing is doing this with the girl as well, so you keep the same ‘pre approach ramp’ aka swinging your dick and moving forward when she’s going to say yes, or you ask her number when she’s going to give you, and not when she’s not going to give you – to that one you ‘let her go’, which makes her feel attracted, so she gives you her number without you asking
This flips all the girls man. All of them.
Ok. What do you mean exactly with “let her go”? Because let her go means I leave, then there is no chance of her giving me her number.
You say goodbye or send her with a grin on your face and no intention to ever see her again
[to that one you ‘let her go’, which makes her feel attracted]
[You say goodbye or send her with a grin on your face and no intention to ever see her again]
Ok, to understand how this related to texting: If a girl stays silent for 3+ days, do I “let her go”? Won’t pinging her after a week be the opposite of letting her go? What’s the rationale then with pinging while I let go girls who are not very interested?
The answer is ‘it depends’, but you can ping her after a few days if she went silent. Depends on what happened before.
Rule: after you send a flirt or an invitation to go out, always ‘let her go’. She may go silent for a few days, don’t talk to her there, let your invitation or flirt be the last thing that was said, don’t ‘chase’ there, don’t add more.
When she comes back, regardless of the time passed, that means now she’s ready, and will be compliant.
But if the conversation just stalled, or went nowhere (like in your texts), ping her back after a few days, and do things right that time
Rule: every time you flirt or take action, WAIT. Wait for her to react. Don’t oversell, dont stack, wait. Let her come to you. When she comes to you, she’s ready.
Don’t chase her away with propositions, interest, rapport. Ping, and wait.
When she comes to you, escalate.
Ok, so really, if I send an invitation to go out and she goes silent, I never ping her again? I just “let her go” until she comes back on her own?
But pinging is just for normal conversation that stopped, then after a few days I ping. Right?
Ok. Because I was thinking I should do like Paul Janka, and every week just ping all girls. But yes, with some of them it will come across as needy. So I think it is better to do your way: If the last message was flirty or an invitation, go silent until she comes back.
If the last message was a normal conversation, then a ping is appropriate.
“Ok, so really, if I send an invitation to go out and she goes silent, I never ping her again? I just “let her go” until she comes back on her own?”
YES. Rule:
Every time you move forward on her and escalate, be READY to let her go. After you move, it’s her turn to move. If she stalls, she’s gone. This means you will never chase her.
This above, when you get it ingrained, will be communicated in the subtext of everything you do and come across as ZERO NEEDINESS and will cut half the bullshit you’re currently doing over text (and potentially in person)
For example after you said “you know what I like about you – nothing ;-)” HORRIBLE text line, because that’s a flirt, now WAIT.
WAIT forever.
Let her react.
That also will teach you exactly what is the impact of the things you do. In this case you aborted the whole thing and chased, following immediately with a ‘want adventure?”
No. Wait.
Flirt. Wait. Ping. Wait. let her do her part. How she reacts will give you the status of where she is and how what you’re doing is working.
Ping, wait. Flirt, wait. Tease, wait. Take action, wait. Invite, wait.
Its a ‘dance’.
It’s not your solo act.
Ping her and let her open.
You’re not a hammer hitting a wall.
Ping her and let her accommodate her body so she puts her vagina closer to your dick so your next thrust finds the proper spot.
This is a cooperation thing.
That was brilliant Yohami and explains a lot!
I hope you write someday Yohami Game Rules, because that makes everything else you say clearer for people who don’t have clarity on the rules themselves.
Btw, Yohami, you should check Krauser’s new book Daygame Infinite. About 1/3rd of the book is him analyzing his own texting calibration, but it is made for advanced guys not beginner or intermediate. At least it gives you an idea about how he does he teaches texting, which can inspire the teaching method in your new book. :)
The basic premise of his new book is you are always probing the girls to know what they are feeling and thinking and adapt your next move to that. Sadly, you need experience to know where she is and what the result of the probe means. He is trying to teach his thinking process and interpretation of what girls say and do girls based on his probes, and what the right move is. Again, it is for advanced guys, so not an easy read.
Ok Yohami, let me see if I understood this correctly:
Women are actively eager to get fucked by a Top Guy, and will make it easy for him to fuck her.
If a girl shows interest in a man, she sees a level of a Top Guy in him. Every inch of top guy counts. So the man is not making a girl “like him”, it’s already there at some level.
So what a Top Guy does is he pushes and pulls: when a girl does something he likes, he gives her an opportunity to get his semen, and then waits for her to proactively take her part. If she doesn’t do it, he let her go.
If she does something he does not like, he punishes her which means to her she risks not getting Top Guy semen, so that makes her comply.
All thought this time he is finding out her arousal spots and doubling down on those, and ignoring the walls.
Therefore, chasing or trying to make girls like you is useless because she wouldn’t even talk to you in a pickup context if there wasn’t a level of liking. And chasing and trying to make girls like you is counter productive because it is bottom guy behavior.
Did I understand right?
Yep.
Fuck! Now Bottom Guy makes so much sense!
If I am trying to chase and go through hardship to get a girl, it means I am bottom guy chasing the top girl who is choosing and picky and is not easy to attain!
But if I am Top Guy, which she has to see at some level otherwise she wouldn’t even talk to me, I am the one giving her opportunity to get my cock which she craves and cannot get anywhere else!
FUCK FUCK FUCK! It makes more sense now! And I am sure it will sink in deeper and deeper over time.
But this changes EVERYTHING!
I was even thinking if I get a girl on a date, I have to make her like me enough for sex, but SHE WOULDN’T EVEN GO ON A DATE IF SHE DIDN’T THINK I HAVE SOME TOP GUY IN ME!!!
Yes. If she is giving you time of the day and going on a date, she is already seeing something in you that she wants. That’s the ‘what she wants’ that you pay attention to.
You don’t have to make her like you. You have to find what she already likes in you, isolate that from the other things – because that spot where she likes something, that’s her arousal, and that’s where you invest.
So “what does she want” and “what does she respond to”. Every girl will have a different variant.
In the Nash story above, it seems to be exclusively about physicality.
With some girls it will be banter, with some it will be slow emotional talks. Each has a different flavor, each gets stimulated with something different.
If they are giving any hint of attention: you already have what they want.
Now find what specifically they are reacting to, and increase that.
And because this is a sexual dance, this always is leading to sex.
This is not about ‘you making her like you’ – that’s the assumption of ‘bottom guy’ who assumes you don’t have value to begin with and need to make tricks to make that happen. Wrong assumption. You already have value, what follows is just ‘a dance’
The dance before sex.
Ok, is the way girls show they like what you do common among them or is it specific to each girl? This helps to see her reaction to know if she is liking the clit I am rubbing.
The only thing that all have in common is that the core base of your behavior has to be ‘top guy’.
The specific flavor is then just a channel for it.
Then there are some girls with the wires crossed that reverse the whole thing – for example they get aroused by the chase, get aroused by fear, get aroused by your displays of humililiation etc – but avoid these girls. In other words put yourself first (which is top frame) and that will screen out the crazies who will mess up with you as well, while also arousing the better girls who wont destroy you in the process.
Because then I am doing it wrong, I assume a girl is a “maybe” and I have to make her like me, while the thing is she already likes me, is DTF, and all I need to do is sexually arouse her rather than comfort her or make her think I am an awesome guy. She already feels I am an awesome guy at some level, and all I do is rub her clits on the way to sex. Right?
Yes.
Even if the girl is a ‘maybe’ (every girl is a maybe, even ‘yes’ girls), you act on the part that is a ‘yes’ of that maybe, not on the part that is a ‘no’ of that maybe. You focus on the yes, you ‘assume attraction’, instead of focusing on the ‘no’, which is ‘pushing against rejection’ or ‘chase’.
That attitude above is on itself, attractive, which makes the ‘maybe’ flip itself to ‘yes’.
Every girl is a combination of ‘noes’ and ‘yeses’, or ‘arousal spots’ and ‘non arousal spots’. Your job is to rub her arousal spots and either ignore their ‘noes’, or push them away from you if they bother you.
At the same time she is actively screening you – she’ll offer you game after game where you have to choose if you’re top or bottom guy. How you demonstrate which one you are? by doing the above, because all the ‘yeses’ are for top guy and all the ‘noes’ are for bottom guy.
Every time you deal with resistance you lower in value, and every time you capitalize in arousal you rise in value. The higher the value, the more opportunities to increase the value and the lower, the more opportunities to decrease the value.
[Even if the girl is a ‘maybe’ (every girl is a maybe, even ‘yes’ girls), you act on the part that is a ‘yes’ of that maybe, not on the part that is a ‘no’ of that maybe. You focus on the yes, you ‘assume attraction’, instead of focusing on the ‘no’, which is ‘pushing against rejection’ or ‘chase’.]
Yes, but the biggest epiphany is that the Yes part of every maybe girl is STRONG and EAGER for Top Guy semen, so I don’t have to worry about making the girl like me, the part is there, all I have to do is rub it out!
I thought all this time that the No part is the strongest, so I have to make it milder to allow the yes part to come out, but the YES part is eager for a Top Guy and wishes it was me, and even if I show an inch of a Top Guy the YES part of her gets stronger and stronger!
I was assuming all this time that the No part is what will win in her most of the time, but that is Bottom Guy that only knows walls!!!! You words make so much more sense now!!!
“I thought all this time that the No part is the strongest”
Basically the part that is a No is not your fucking problem.
“I already have a lover”
Me: not my fucking problem. When are you free? I’ll take you out.
“Shave your beard”
Me: maybe. When are you free? I’ll take you out
Etc.
[“I thought all this time that the No part is the strongest”
Basically the part that is a No is not your fucking problem.
“I already have a lover”
Me: not my fucking problem. When are you free? I’ll take you out.
“Shave your beard”
Me: maybe. When are you free? I’ll take you out
Etc.]
Ok, and just to confirm, after any invitation like the above, I let her go. If she answers, I am back, if not, there are many other girls who want my semen so this specific one doesn’t matter.
My GOD this makes much more sense now, you are a freaking genius Yohami, so much so that your words were so outside of my reality I couldn’t even understand most of what you said! But it was my fault because I was coming from a Bottom Guy frame where your ideas cannot even be imagined!
Yep!
And then in every interaction, she’ll expose something that is revealing ‘what she wants’ like in the texts from Robinhood. Then you rub her there. And when she comes to you aroused you double down / take her.
Every time you show an inch of top guy and rub her the right way she comes to you with more arousal.
[all the ‘yeses’ are for top guy and all the ‘noes’ are for bottom guy.]
This is SO FUCKING DEEP. I get it now, and I am starting to get why you don’t do frame clashing, BECAUSE AS A TOP GUY FRAME NOS ARE NOT FOR YOU, THEY DON’T CONCERN YOU!!
Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! This is such an epiphany I had now!!
So by trying to get girls to like me I am pushing them away because I am being Bottom Guy!!!!!!!! They already want my cock, and all I do is dance with them through non needy pull when they are complying, push when they are not complying, swinging my dick to find her clits, then focusing on rubbing those clits!
This simplifies the theoretical understanding of game so much Yohami, I thought it was way more complicated lol
OMG, this is so simple yet when you come from a Bottom Guy frame it is so hard to see because it’s not even in a Bottom Guy’s reality that this can exist!
Yeah man. It’s really, really, really simple.
Talking about it with someone who’s in bottom frame is, strange, because if all you see is walls and resistance, how do I talk to you about doors and arousal?
All the ‘paradox’ is translating top guy frame to bottom guy frame in a way that doesn’t make bottom guy run scared.
In part because this is ‘death’ for bottom guy.
“They already want my cock, and all I do is dance with them through non needy pull when they are complying, push when they are not complying, swinging my dick to find her clits, then focusing on rubbing those clits!”
It’s like playing air guitar.
Yes, and I get that I AM NOT PLAYING THE GAME ALONE!
THE GIRL IS AN ACTIVE AND WILLING PARTICIPANT, AND I HAVE TO GIVE HER SPACE TO PLAY HER PART IN THE DANCE!!!
Fuck, fuck, fuck!!! I was thinking, like Nash says sometimes, that if I don’t actively try to do things to the girl, I will lose them (in his case because they are introverts), BUT ALL WOMEN HAVE A PUSSY THAT IS WET AND EAGER AND CHASING TOP GUY!!
So what I do is Pull, giving her the opportunity to get closer to a Top Guy then let her go. She will either participate in the dance by coming closer and complying, or fuck her, I screen her out and keep my Top Guy semen for a girl who wants to please me more!!
FUCK FUCK FUCK! This makes so much sense AND FEELS BETTER THAN NEEDING TO CHASE AND MAKE THE GIRL LIKE YOU!!!
[It’s like playing air guitar.]
This is me from now one :D
https://youtu.be/R1dW8M4EqYY?t=2m37s
Yohami, you are a genius! Now I get why Bottom Guy frame fucks PUA theory and technique so much, because you’re trying to make girls like you and because they are focused on dealing with the NOs, while dealing with the Nos only show you are a Bottom Guy!
Now all I need to do is remind myself of this again and again until it sinks in and becomes part of my natural behavior, too much Bottom Guy habits that I will conquer.
Now also I get how Nash fucks himself up with frames like monster and me with dangerous, because the game is simpler than that! These come for him from needing to justify the age difference, his thing about the old vampire needing the blood of the young virgin, but YOU ARE TOP GUY, TOP GUYS ARE RARE, TOP GUYS ARE BEYOND AGE, TOP GUY IS WHAT SHE IS CRAVING ALL DAY LONG, NO NEED TO JUSTIFY OFFERING HER WHAT SHE WANTS: TOP GUY SEMEN!!!!
If anything SHE NEEDS TO QUALIFY HERSELF WHY SHE DESERVES TOP GUY SEMEN!!!
Fuck, this makes so much sense!
And now I UNDERSTAND WHY IT IS IMPORTANT TO GIVE THE GIRL SPACE TO CHASE YOU / COME NEARER TO YOU COCK!!!
Because her doing that confirms to her that you are a Top Guy!!!
If I chase her or try to get closer to her to bust through her walls, it means I am a Bottom Guy because I am eager and without options! Fuck! Things falling into place!
Slow clap.
Dude, getting what you mean is probably the hardest thing I got into my head (And I am an intelligent guy) and probably the most important thing ever!!
In EVERYTHING, I shouldn’t chase because people will be repulsed, I give them the opportunity to come closer to me, and if not, I let them go.
THIS IS WHAT THEY FUCKING MEAN WITH ABUNDANCE!!! This is true abundance because having a bunch of girls from Bottom Guy chasing frame will not feel like abundance, it feels like you have to do so much work to get pussy and just confirms scarcity and bottom guy!
FUCK!!!!
“having a bunch of girls from Bottom Guy chasing frame will not feel like abundance”
Yes – ‘any success while in the wrong frame reinforces the wrong frame’
If you get pussy while in bottom guy frame, then it validates all you did, so you ‘do more of that’. Say you did 200 sets and got 10 phone numbers and banged one chick – then you clinge to that process and validate the whole thing with that 1 in 200.
The mindfuck is – that girl you banged didn’t see a bottom guy, she thought she banged a top guy. So all your work, for her, was for nothing. It didn’t validate you, it completely invalidated you. Everything you did.
That’s the constant unstable state of mind full of paradoxes in PUA. Work hard, but don’t care! chase, but be detached!, it all comes from a bottom guy, with bottom guy desires, fears, goals, behaviors, trying to operate from a different frame.
When moving to the other frame is ‘easier’ than the clusterfuck.
Hey, Yohami, thank you very much for the words, and thanks BlueValentine for sharing your stories and thought processes.
What I like about Yohami is that he clearly focuses on the GOOD part of the game, on the TOP FRAME of the game. It makes super simple something that’s clearly obscure for us guys that were raised thinking that you always have to chase, that you always have to give women everything, sell your manhood, sell your gifts for a bit of pussy. Women are constantly looking for an Alpha Male, a Top Guy, but that’s something you can’t fake. They’re really good at screening us and seeing us as we really are. They want a proper man and everything that entails. We all have to work on our TOP GUY FRAME, on becoming a MAN (a man that naturally attracts women, as D. De Angelo said), so that our masculine energies spread out so that women can feel them.
Again, thanks guys. It’s refreshing to read this.
Dardo
There is great news and bad news.
The great news is I went approaching after this eureka moment, and the girl was a slow maybe girl, I let get go and she started asking me questions, and I was not chasing at all, just giving her space, and she then asked for my number, and I gave her space, then she gave me her number, it was the more space I gave her, the more she wanted me!
Then, I got bold, so I approached blindly, the second girl rejected me hard, then I was back to Bottom Guy hoping some girl likes me, and BAAAM rejection after rejection after rejection.
Then I had a date with the virgin girl, I tried paying attention to what she likes, but it was not clear. It was as if she is enjoying my presence and attention rather than anything specific. Ah, and she likes intelligence. But she did not seem to be an emotional girl, she seemed to be logical, more like a nerdy guy than an emotional girl. That might explain why she stayed single and virgin with no boyfriend until the age of 21 years old. So she was hard to decipher, so I just was normal with her and it seemed to be going fine. She is more of a logical person so her social skills are basic. I guess she’s the type Nash will salivate for, haha.
I remember Nash was asking a question about what would you do with an innocent naive virgin girl. Well, although this girl is not innocent nor naive, I do not think such girls exist, why would I leave her virgin pussy for some stupid drunk idiot to fuck while I can do it? I am a guy who worked so hard on himself to be a better person, there is no pussy I do not have priority before any other man to get: this is my life, I shall be the kind and get first pass at all the girls before everyone else.
I really did not get this kind of thinking where you think you are doing something bad to innocent girls by fucking them. Or like Nash was telling some girl in his bed in NYC that she shouldn’t go to a random guy’s room and felt better to give her that advice: man, if she didn’t want your cock at some level she would NOT have gone to the room with you. Girls are NOT idiots, they are much smarter than 99% of men, even those “shy” virginal girls. If they were stupid and easy then all 17-18 years old girls would get fucked by 50 men in that year before they learn not to be naive, but they are not giving the pussy away easily which shows that “easy naive innocent” girls do no exist.
Anyway, again: if there is a guy in this world (which is MY world, I am the one living in it and will end when I die) that deserves all the best pussy and the most virginal and the hottest sluttiest girls and all kinds of good pussy, then it is me. There is no doubt.
Bottom Guy behavior comes back though from time to time. Bottom Guy has to die. That is my mission.
Good thing deep down I am a Top Guy. I guess that’s why what Yohami says clicked for me while most other guys think it is veneer that they put on the Bottom Guy to get laid more. It is not. Bottom Guy has to die.
Top Guy is NOT a technique. It is a frame through which you view the world. It is who you are. It is how your brain thinks and functions. It is not a perspective you put to game some girls or know how to respond in text, it is who you are, so you behave naturally, and your natural normal behavior is exactly what girls which you would do, it shows your high quality semen, it shows you are desired by many women, it shows you are a man who knows his value, it shows you are a man who doesn’t get rejected by other women because you are a man in demand, and you behave accordingly. You know women, you have abundance with women, you know how to behave around them but you need none of them because women aren’t a big deal, they’re the easiest thing to you because no woman in her sane mind will not throw her pussy at a Top Guy, so you’re getting pussy offers constantly and you’re almost overdoses on pussy, so there is no chase in you. You just play the game for fun and only let women who show they are willing to please you in every way and not bring drama in your life have your high quality semen.
Now, what is left is killing the Bottom Guy because as soon as I get some rejections, he takes over. Fuck Bottom Guy.
“just giving her space, and she then asked for my number, and I gave her space, then she gave me her number, it was the more space I gave her, the more she wanted me!”
Bingo.
Valentine, you might also want to think about your writing style, and maybe an equivalent in how you talk. Lots of caps, multiple exclamation points, overflowing with praise. Since the praise is directed at Yohami you might want to emulate how he writes, or indeed, most people here. If you would text like that to a woman it wouldn’t look good. This to something rather mundane, too: The advice is to not contact her too much, to be more laid back. It’s good advice, but I don’t know what you get so worked up about. It makes such a contrast to the advice given. I can only assume you were high on coffee.
Thank you Tenet for the kind advice.
From what I can tell, I get above average daygame results.
And at this point in time, I do not believe that my passionate energy is harming me. I have other sticking points.
(It doesn’t help that doing a lot of daygame literally gives you a high, the rush is amazing.)
And as I grow and develop as a man, maybe I will find that I have the sticking point of “excessive passion,” and then I will work on that.
Thank you again. I’m just working at one sticking point at a time. I’m in it for the long haul.
[“That’s the constant unstable state of mind full of paradoxes in PUA. Work hard, but don’t care! chase, but be detached!, it all comes from a bottom guy, with bottom guy desires, fears, goals, behaviors, trying to operate from a different frame.
When moving to the other frame is ‘easier’ than the clusterfuck”] @ Yohami
This is GOLD.
[Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! This is such an epiphany I had now!!]
[Yohami, you are a genius!]
+1
Today applying this had the biggest effect on my game ever!
When I say hi to the girl, I just let go, and girls just stick and want to hear more!
Before, when I was rushing, chasing to make sure I get her attention, I would lose it. But now when I say hi then let go of the girl, they want to hear more and every time I say something, as much as I can, I let go of her. Some of the best interactions I ever had were today.
It had also clicked for me with Yohami’s breakdown and now I know and feel what he means. Still, it is not easy to implement it in my interactions. So what did you do exactly when you “say hi to the girl” and “just let go” – shut up and just looking at her with that smirky-knowing Top Guy grin in your face?
Cool – add ‘dominance’ or ‘imperative playful tone’ and you should see something interesting happening.
I think it is better if you tried to explain what you mean with dominance or imperative playful tone, because I cannot in my mind separate that from adding some chase. Is it simply offering a lot of “pull” opportunities for girls to come closer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5eqzHms6E0
Julian on this subject
Met up with this Tinder girl downtown. She didn’t spot me and I came up from her crossing the street, so for fun I raised my voice and said “HEY!” “You’re under arrest for jaywalking.”
She then spent the next 10 minutes talking about how she loved my voice, and then post-lay she mentioned how me commanding her made her attracted immediately because of how dominant it was.
Yes. Good for you man.
Btw, Yohami, I remember you talk often how things in a sexual context are very different from in a social context.
Could you please go back to basic and explain what you mean with that?
Sometimes, people do not get your advanced stuff because their “basics” from your point of view are actually not in place.
“Btw, Yohami, I remember you talk often how things in a sexual context are very different from in a social context.”
In a social context you don’t necessarily get punished for chasing, pleasing and being bottom guy. You can make a career out of being ‘bottom’ and using it to promote yourself, aka, most service-oriented careers, sales positions (which is why I insist on not doing Game like you’re selling, or servicing). There are plenty of situations where it’s fine to be humble, bottom, servicer, hardworker, teamplayer, and more. There’s also cases where CHASE is good for you. Say you’re selling something, or you want a position on a company and they keep telling you there may be a position later, being insistent etc can work and there’s no reason not to be pushy.
But not in a sexual context.
Not with women.
Not in courtship (NEVER in courtship).
Once in a relationship you can tune that in to a degree, but every time you are being ‘nice’ expect a shit test to come your way.
Then – in social context, the best advantage for you is to be top first and bottom second, so bottom is the fine tuning of your negotiation and not the core of your deal. Even when you are performing on a job and your job is to do as being told, the winning proposition for you is that once the task is on your park, you’re on top of it, as opposed to ‘under it’. Let me know if that makes sense.
Story – when I was learning to be Beta and leaving Omega behind I took a teaching job. I was teaching students 10 hours a day for a year and a half. That helped me cure of my shyness and game me some extroversion.
But back then I learned that role from a ‘service caring’ role. I’d be firm, but patient, caring, I’d explain things again and again, give people a pass for not doing stuff, side with students against the institute, etc, I was my students backrubber in a way, all in addition to doing well my job. That worked fine for me and I got the ‘best teacher’ vote every six months for the duration of my thing there.
A few years later when I started my first company I approached it the same way – I had 15 people working for me and I played the same role, caring, listening, teaching, supporting, siding with then, trying to make them happy, I took the leadership / boss position as it was my ‘service’ and I was bottom to all my employees. The result (predictable) was chaos, instability, eventually bankrupcy.
So the same bottom role played fine for a teacher and badly for an actual boss. Now, I found game at the end of my first company and learned to be a BOSS (while in pua/player phase).
The difference is that as a teacher, the mission is accomplished when the students learn, the game is won when the students get something out of it, all your value relies on how much you give to your students.
While when you’re running a company, the mission is accomplished when the employees do their job to my satisfaction, I am there in support only so they can function better in pleasing me, my job is to make it easier for them to please me, and give them incentives to please me, and punishments when they don’t do so.
Being a boss would have worked fine for the teacher role too, with some fine tuning, but at the core the frames are reversed.
The sexual courtship is rigged in that the male needs the skills and frames that come from being a BOSS, and not a Teacher.
Or a student, or an employee.
Your job as a BOSS is that your employees feel satisfaction when they are doing their very BEST in pleasing you.
This is why in sexual courtship you REWARD when she’s in good behavior. She has to feel good about it. And then you PUNISH or neg or retract attention when she’s in bad behavior, so she knows where the line is.
And that above is magnetic to women (because they are naturally, rigged, to be attracted to the man who is a boss, who is also, naturally, working from the top/center of the tribe, aka all this is nothing but hypergamy).
So when you reward them and neg them in the right places, they all surrender, they all want it.
Predictably so.
This is helpful. I am managing a team for the first time. I am definitely a “collaborative, open” type of manager. Learning to set boundaries is hard. Game is definitely teaching me some of these things, but this reply is giving me ideas of how I can improve.
[…] from nash’s blog. […]
Leaving this here – all women are red pill, the ‘secret society’ is the only society
Love those videos. Been watching them for a while. Aussie women are red pill as fuck.
Leaving this story in praise of daygame:
Today I met a wonderful advertising manager girl at the mall.
She told me she was at the mall contemplating her life and how she cannot meet men doing it the way she does it: She wake up in the morning, goes to the gym. Then spends the whole day working on her advertising project. Then goes home to sleep. And does it the next day all over again. Because of this, she has no opportunity for meeting men.
So she was walking at the mall contemplating her single life and I rolled along, opened her, insta-dated her and she was so excited and shy and giggly like a little girl although she was in her mid twenties.
A body sculpted in the gym, a smart well read and well traveled girl. I literally could not have met her anywhere except daygame. Plus, I happened to approach her at the perfect time where she is pre-motivated to get a new cock in her life. I even did slip and do some bottom guy things during the instant date but I was paying enough attention to her words, so she was basically telling me what was wrong and right in subtle ways and I adapted.
Anyways, I am meeting artists, models, teachers, advertising creative girls, university girls, busy girls, all kinds of girls because of daygame that I wouldn’t otherwise have met.
Like Krauser says, what we take advantage of as daygamers is either meeting girls when they are ovulating and horny, or because they feel some real dissatisfaction with their lives and want change. We are the change they seek.
Literally, right now outside there is a great girl who is missing masculinity in her life. She doesn’t meet many men, she doesn’t need the most Top Guy ever, she just needs to feel the attention, touch and masculinity of a man, not being too picky about it. Go out, screen and find them. You will make their day happy with your approach, and soon their pussies happy with your cock.
Nash, just to make sure I understood correctly, in Tokyo, are your numbers such that you get 1 phone number out of 15 approaches? So 150 approaches = 10 numbers? Just to compare stats and know how it is going for an upper intermediate guy such as yourself.
>> an upper intermediate guy such as yourself
I think I’m mid-intermediate. I know I’m a long way from advanced.
>> 1 phone number out of 15 approaches? So 150 approaches = 10 numbers?
That is about the worst I do here. I did 25 approaches the other night and got 2 leads. That’s the “bottom end.” When I wrote my “blowout artist” post (last year), I had a streak where I went 19 approaches without a lead.
This is all worst case scenario… for a guy like me… that does NOT filter his approaches much… looking at my worst days, worst luck, worst vibe.
But upper end… I have taken six leads in ten approaches, several times this trip.
I did 150 approaches one week, and took min of four, max of nine leads per day.
I’ll do total stats later… but I think one in seven is safe. One in five is probably about right, for “decent vibe, decent luck.” Which is almost exactly like at home.
I’m going to post my stats… but I am also going to post my “logs,” so guys can see all the notes I took… and that should give anyone that is interested a very good look into my “raw data.”
I also count every single approach… and I claim to have the worst, and the most honest, stats in the daygame community.
Ok Nash. And please when you do your stats try to analyze whether your lays came from Maybe girls who over time got to a point where they decided to sleep with you, or whether they were Yes girls who at that point in their lives they were hoping for a guy and you came up and you were cool so they went for it.
Because when you screen you are finding girls who are already lonely and hoping to find a guy. So then it is worth noting whether we are losing Maybe girls when screening, or whether most Maybe girls are time wasters.
Also, if you could post about how many numbers respond and stay “alive” after you start texting them, that would be a very important stat.
To be honest, dude… I don’t care about any of that stuff anymore.
I will post the raw data… but this isn’t about analysis. That is “boy logic” in a lovers game. No dis to anyone when is say that, but this is my current POV.
We can’t “use math” to understand this. It’s not that kind of game.
Talk to girls… because you love to, because you love who you are when you do it, because you love girls.
Look for IOIs. That’s real. And those sets will likely be better. But IOIs aren’t everything.
Then… be an amazing man. Inside and out. And be especially amazing as you approach.
And then be amazing on your dates.
And you’ll get laid.
That’s all I care about right now. I’m not running a spreadsheet. This game really doesn’t work like that. That kind of post is dry, and out of touch, and I never learn anything from that POV.
How much do you love it? How amazing are you as a man? How much do you love women?
If you’re high on those metrics ^… you’ll get laid. If you’re not… probably not.
It’s an art… not a science.
I want to get juicy with the girls. On the street. On the dates. When we’re alone.
If I do that… I get laid. And I have a good time… even when I don’t get laid.
I want to have a good time.
“Ok Nash. And please when you do your stats try to analyze whether your lays came from Maybe girls who over time got to a point where they decided to sleep with you, or whether they were Yes girls who at that point in their lives they were hoping for a guy and you came up and you were cool so they went for it.
Because when you screen you are finding girls who are already lonely and hoping to find a guy. So then it is worth noting whether we are losing Maybe girls when screening, or whether most Maybe girls are time wasters.
Also, if you could post about how many numbers respond and stay “alive” after you start texting them, that would be a very important stat.” -Blue Valentine
i agree with nash, numbers only tell part of the story.
i think case studies are more important. getting in deep on successes and mistakes — and trying to understand WHY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQGBDNdlU3I
Todd distilling some top guy down frame, plus a few gems
“showing intent / showing you have the balls is for total newbies” savage. Cosign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFpF9OkJQwM
Max+Julien on the same topic
This girl is talking about the same thing:
How can anyone watch that video and justify “chasing girls”
The problem is what happens when you don’t have girls chasing you in the first place because of looks, even though you’re a dick and show no beta traits whatsoever.
This is my current situation.
My thought is that inserting some chase rather than no chase will improve results.
Still testing…
“My thought is that inserting some chase rather than no chase will improve results.”
Chase is death
Fat luke on this same subject
Luke nails the interaction 100% in that video, reward, punish, flirt, tease etc. But the ‘frame’ where he’s coming from is still broken, as it calls it ‘flip the script’. That means that he’s actually lower in value and chasing that girl, but he’s ‘flipping the script’ to ‘force her to invest’
It’s funny how bottom frame tries to grasp on top frame stuff. Easier to look at her perspective.
What the girl WANTS is to find a top guy who makes her want to qualify to – she WANTS the top guy who has more options that she does, has more authority than she does etc. Her starting position is not one of “Im higher value so all men have to qualify to me”, but a position on a pyramid: “I WANT to qualify to top guy, and bottom guys need to qualify to me”. You’re not ‘flipping the script’ on her, you’re changing your position on the pyramid and pinging what she actually wants to do already, with a kind of men who are not you. So that’s not you flipping the script on her, but you passing as a man with value.
Luke is describing an interaction where he’s always making her react to him. That’s not ‘forcing investment’ but ‘arousing her’. What the girl is doing is 100% natural and that’s how she behaves when she likes a guy, and she’s doing all that because she’s liking that specific interaction – way more than she likes dealing with bottom frame guys who’re chasing for rapport and giving her free validation. That she’ll still take because she’s greedy.
YOHAMI, can you pls have a look a the txt convo below? For context I kissed this girl on Friday night but had to leave (have a girlfriend/ex girlfriend at home. We’re currently moving through a complicated separation – another story).
Anyways, after meeting her on Friday night, I texted her the day after in the mid afternoon (Saturday).
Me: Nice kiss last night ;) Let’s go out for a drink soon
She responded yesterday (Monday evening)..
Her: deffs meet up for a drink!
So that’s where I’ve left it for now. Any pointers appreciated.
Go for the drink and bang her, you’re doing fine and she’s DTF
But being picky:
“Me: Nice kiss last night ;) ”
That’s shit game.
You save face with the immediate call to action, but: any call to say how you are feeling, what you like, like “I had a good time” etc it’s a ping for her to reciprocate, aka you’re going for rapport. This is ‘weak’ man talking and you’re trying to force her hand, here’s what It would look like without the call to action
Me: Nice kiss last night ;)
Her: …
Do you see above how you’re ‘forcing’ a verbal approval from her, putting her in the spot. This is the same as stopping in the middle of the date and telling her ‘you had a great time’ and pausing. It’s tension but the wrong kind. Compare alternatives:
Me: naughty girl ;-) (judge, roleplay)
Me: hey sexy ;-) (flirt)
Me: hey [funny nickname] ;-) (self amused)
Me: you were hot last night ;-) (validation)
Me: hey ;-) (this is the most ‘top guy’ one, less is more, she understand what this wink is about).
So all these are a vector, you ‘rub’ her by addressing her, as opposed to stating how you liked something impersonal, a third thing named ‘kiss’.
The call to action is good, so
Me: hey sexypants ;-) (wait for her to reply)
Her: hey hey :-)
Me: Let’s go for a drink soon
Her: deffs meet up for a drink!
Me: friday 9pm at XXX, sounds good?
Her: [agree or reschedule]
Bang.
Thanks Yohami, I see what you’re saying. I actually thought I’d fucked it and was surprised when I received a reply a couple days later. You’re a legend. Cheers
The best thing you did was to not chase her during her silence, that reframes your text as coming from a ‘higher place’. Your wait and non-chase literally changes her biological response. The non-chase is the message.
You: nice kiss last night
Her: ugh (doesn’t respond)
One day later
Her: ugh… it was nice
Two days later:
Her: fuck it was nice. I want more
—–
VS chase
You: nice kiss last night
Her: (ugh, doesn’t reply)
You: Let’s meet for drinks soon
Her: (as if! doesn’t reply)
You: Friday at XX 9pm works?
Her: (he doesn’t get the message?)
You: I can also thursday and wednesday (already hard bouncing against a wall)
Her: (further away – why did I kiss this guy?)
You: (turning desperate, switches to rapport) How was your day?
You: Here’s a picture of a cute kitten!
Her: … that’s cute <3
You: let's go for a drink!
———-
No hope.
Your question at Riv’s, to keep it all in one place:
“So do you think I should wait til next week to contact her after her “deffs meet up for a drink!”? So radio silence for near on a week?”
Nope! she just showed compliance and arousal: REWARD IT.
You: Awesome ;-)
Then call to action
You: Im out of town, I’ll ping you when I come back
If you want to spice it up and allow her to rapport some (without you chasing), do like this:
You: Awesome
You: Im out of town in a mysterious place, I’ll ping you when I come back ;-)
Depending on the girl, if the kiss was wild you can take her enthusiasm and flirt around it while roleplaying some
You: but not too many drinks, or we’ll get in trouble ;-) (you flirt? now WAIT)
Her: hahah
You: Im out of town, I’ll ping you when Im back
Her: can’t wait
You: It’ll be great
———————-
Why this is important? rewarding her in the right places is as important as punishing in the right places. The same reason why it’s bad to chase when you’re leading and showing intent, is the reason it’s bad to do a radio silence when she’s showing interest. There you’re creating a wall and making her work when she just showed arousal.
Take her instead.
You take action, flirt, tease, show intent, set logistics – then WAIT. That wait is your
‘punishment’ or the boundary, this is as far as you go, now it’s her turn.
When she moves, comes closer, shows interest, allows you some space for more moves: then you reward that by escalating and making a new move, specially increasing what she’s responding to.
That’s not the place to go radio silence or try to be difficult.
It’s a dance. Dance it.
You move, she moves, yo move, she moves, you move, she moves. If she doesn’t move, wait. If a lot of time passes, ping. Every time you move, think of what kind of reaction you want from it. How is your move going to make her feel / what kind of move are you expecting from her? you need to know this stuff so you have some boundaries on what to reward and what to punish.
You said Drinks
She said Yes
= You got what you wanted.
Now reward her.
—————————
“You: Awesome ;-)
Then call to action
You: Im out of town, I’ll ping you when I come back”
simple genius.
Excellent stuff Yohami
To give some more context to the initial club interaction. There was a high point in our flirting where she says to me (kind of smiling)…”I don’t want a boyfriend”
I actually loved this at the time and replied… “I’m not looking for a girlfriend”
After that I said something to the effect of.. “We’ll just have to fuck then”
She didn’t flinch at all to this. Nothing said, no response at all really and we just carried on. We kissed a bit later after I took her onto the dance floor. (I wouldnt say the kiss was anything wild) I left shortly after the that..
Therefore, tonight I when replying I’m thinking of using your flirting text response:
“You: but not too many drinks, or we’ll get in trouble ;-)”
Because of that verbal interaction I mentioned at the top.
She: “I don’t want a boyfriend”
Better response: “I’ve already got one”
And after she reacts
Me: “Lets go”
You should have banged her that night. “I don’t want a boyfriend” means “I just want to fuck” and is a VERY direct open to casual raunchy sex.
Because that’s the context, this line doesn’t work anymore
“You: but not too many drinks, or we’ll get in trouble ;-)”
That is not longer a ramp because the arousal is already higher and explicit. “not too many drinks / trouble” now looks like what a prude would say. So don’t escalate back but forward.
The text with pure logistics is better
You: Awesome ;-)
You: Im out of town, I’ll ping you when I come back
—————
The reason I put friday on the text is you made out on a friday and she was DTF, so making it a friday again is pure common sense. Friday means she was out to fuck and doesn’t have a boyfriend, but hey, also ‘doesn’t want one’. She’s filling the boyfriend day with casual sex partners.
Pinging her to go out on a thursday works too. For now, though, just reply ASAP. Reward that she complied. Set the rythm.
Lol, fix:
She: “I don’t want a boyfriend”
Better response: “yeah, I’ve already got [a girlfriend]”
Not trying to make gay jokes there
Yohami
Your analysis proves I have no idea what I’m doing, a total noob.
Again what I thought would be helpful was off.
Luckily, I did check back here (thanks Nash) before I texted and sent off the pure logistical one above (I didnt put the ;-) at the end of “awesome” though). So my reply back to her was 3 days after her text. Hers was 2 days after my first..
My timing of my reply back is probably off too (too long?). I had heard to wait at least as long as she takes to reply. This is standard PUA advice. Although I’m getting the feeling it isnt rewarding her for her compliance (in this case). To wait so long (?).
No reply from her as yet..
So I’ll ping her next week sometime. Probably with something along the lines of
“Hey sexypants ;)”
Then move to setup the date after she replies (if she does).
Taking as much time as she does to reply is preventive medicine for ‘not chasing’ but it doesn’t work unless you know what you are doing. What guys do is wait 3 days and then CHASE, which makes the waiting worse.
Also ‘write less than she does’ is preventive medicine.
But let’s address the issue directly:
It took her two days to see your message, and when she came back, she was a YES girl. In THAT moment, she was receptive.
If she had come with a ‘maybe’ that’s different than she coming with a YES.
Do you see it?
When you see the YES, reward.
If she waits 2 days or is not feeling it for 2 days and then comes back with “not sure if drinks” then you punish that. Aka, you wait 3 days, or forget about it, or punish her with a “ah, don’t be boring” (then let it go) etc.
But when she’s a YES she’s coming closer to you, she’s aroused, and every thing you do to push things forward will be maximized because she’s being compliant, in THAT MOMENT.
So would you say it’s wise to let that moment go?
Should you wait 3 days when she’s a YES girl, or should you bang her in that same moment?
3 days from now, after she offered you her vagina, she’s not longer a yes girl, she had to use that arousal with some other guy already. You’re in the past.
What happened if you waited 3 days when she was in YES mode, is that you actually punished her for being open and compliant. You trained her that when she’s a YES, you make her wait.
So yeah, you don’t know what you’re doing. Fix it.
Push unwanted behavior, pull desired behavior.
If when she’s a YES girl you reward her, the next time she won’t take 2 days to reply to your text. She’ll want the feeling she just got, things escalate from there ‘naturally’.
By punishing for turning into YES and acting as if she’s a Maybe, you’re diluting your momentum into nothingness. Not creating energy, but dissipating it, while framing things the wrong way.
So —
When you come back town, ping her as you said you should do, like this:
Me: hey sexypants
Me: Im back ;-)
————–
Breakdown
“hey sexypants” a little flirt / opener, ramp for the move
“Im back ;-)” [to have sex] this is the call to action, and she knows what’s up. Wait for her to reply (can take a couple days again, you didn’t take the pace faster) then bang.
Good luck
Factory… I approved your comment, and we’re glad to have you here.
And hey… let’s use this space from more than “what do you think of these two lines of text.”
Yohami came back with more excellence from Yohami… which we’re all lucky to get.
But I want this blog to be about more than “I said hi, she said hi back, now what?” Let’s do more here than get Yohami to approve/reject a line of text.
If you want to 1.) cite Yohami (using something he said, preferably, at the level of “why” we do something), and then 2.) use some text from your life to challenge him, or to build on a larger point, or to ask that level of question… THAT is a good use of this space.
Thanks, man.
Duly noted Nash and fair call..
“Yohami came back with more excellence from Yohami… which we’re all lucky to get.”
yeah!!!
[…] from nash’s blog. […]
What do you think of this Yohami?
All on point, and Im very impressed.
This too reminds me of what you recommend:
https://youtu.be/OClH_8ZtCNc?t=8m57s
Yep – this guy is the shit. Scroll back in that video and he’s talking about the internal / external frame loop. He’s got it.
He is talking here about what you talk about in your texting critique, the giving girls validation and focusing on commonalities:
This is very very nice
All on point again. Even touches on buyer vs seller frames.
Well, he is anti game now. He talks about how most guys when they game they try to hold the girls’ time rather than having an emotional impact that make the girls chase them and want to give them their time.
His first product is going to be out soon.
https://www.thefuckboyframe.com/
He’s in the game 6 years, failed for 4 years until he started copying guys who are good with women. Like he said, it is all about the frame and having an emotional impact on women.
“Well, he is anti game now.”
He’s talking about becoming attractive, which is, well, ‘the death of game’ as understood by bottom frame. But it’s actually where the real game starts.
Been watching his stuff for a couple hours, all on point and flawless. Very impressed.
Well, he said when he stopped learning from PUAs and started learning from fuckboys like bartenders and other such guys that hot women fuck, what he is sharing is what he discovered.
Naturally, those men who get all the sex are Bottom Guys.
I mean “Are NOT Bottom Guys”.
Yohami, can you analyze this interaction from a Top Guy frame? I think it will be very helpful to us daygamers, especially that what he does is not at all like we do. What we learn is your voice should be melodic and rhythmic, he flatlines his voice. We learn we should not ask questions, he asks a lot of questions. And he keeps on disqualifying himself and being the judge much more than us because we are more focused on a bit more compliments and what that says about the girl to keep her attention, while it seems he is pushing the girl away and she is staying.
https://youtu.be/p2NKbi4vxtY?t=10m39s
The guy is in top frame all the time –
“especially that what he does is not at all like we do.”
Hell, that looks a lot like what I’d do to talk to a stranger.
“he flatlines his voice.”
Flatline = monotone = low energy = low effort = stable = non reactive. The voice video from Julien, or the old stuff from Brad Branson (wade) talking about alpha commanding voice (which is when I learn this stuff) is all the same. Authority comes with a ‘flatline’ or ‘monotone’ or unreactiveness.
But the most important thing here is all the time he’s flatline he is commanding.
He’s imperative = he’s in authority. All the fucking time.
The interaction with that girl started with eye contact, that’s the ramp.
Then he goes to her and tells her to stop walking. Then tells her ”youre cute as fuck”
All the self deprecating jokes he’s doing there are to appear socially adept. He DOES look like a homeless. He gets it out of the way.
“We learn we should not ask questions, he asks a lot of questions”
He asks questions but breaks rapport immediately. So the questions are just the ramp for breaking rapport. Asking questions is unattractive, breaking rapport is attractive.
Him: “hey where are you from”
Her: “blah blah”
Him: “Well you look russian or something”
Translation: he doesn’t care about her answer. Then he keeps moving back and forth the subjects. He asks smalls stuff to get her talking, the punctuates
“you’re smart, that’s awesome”
That’s rewarding her investment
“Im not an intellectual”
“I was considering moving to austin”
Etc these are not rapport, that’s him “swinging his dick” in front of her. Eventually she’ll giggle to something (arousal), that’s where he doubles down.
Him: “I’d like to get to know you a little bit better” (WAITS)
Her: “yeah”
Him: (double down) what’s your schedule like
Her: “I got these days blah blah”
Him: Nice (reward)
Up until the last moment he’s telling her what to do
“Don’t spend all your money”
Beautiful stuff.
More beauty in that game than in that specific girl.
:-D
But that’s how it’s done.
“while it seems he is pushing the girl away and she is staying.”
The guy has zero chase in him. Beautiful to watch.
Yohami, I had some issues about Top Guy Frame that I’d appreciate if you clarify:
1) You said before that being a Top Guy will make other men feel little which women will experience as arousal. Well, since most mell have an inferiority complex, won’t most other men just get pissed off when they feel little ending up in too much drama rather than cooperation?
2) When you don’t care about women, won’t you appear “bored” to them? I mean, how do you reconcile desiring women with not caring and letting them go each time?
3) When you open with a monotone voice “like a boss”, won’t that piss many women off and they’ll get furious even if it is to test your Top Guy frame which us as daygamers can get us scenes in malls etc?
4) Even that black dude mentioned it how most women do not text back. So when we operate from Top Guy frame where we ping and then whenever we flirt or make an offer, if the girl doesn’t respond, we let her go. Well, won’t we end up with very very few girls? How do we work the numbers then? Or do you think this is kind of “plowing” and we’re getting girls that really like us anyway through our “persistence” but losing most girls by chasing?
Yohami…I remain shocked that you ever listen to Luke. That video is painful… and he is a tool. A sloppy tool. I think that guy has zero credibility. I like him less everytime I hear him talk.
>> nails the interaction 100% in that video, reward, punish, flirt, tease etc.
— Yohami
I’m not arguing with this… and that Luke can say this, makes me think he is a keyboard jockey.
>> But the ‘frame’ where he’s coming from is still broken, as it calls it ‘flip the script’. That means that he’s actually lower in value and chasing that girl, but he’s ‘flipping the script’ to ‘force her to invest’
— Yohami
I think you get caught up in words sometimes… I avoid saying “I chase girls” around you, even though that is not “bottom guy” phrase for me. A wolf chases the rabbit… not because he is lower value. But because that is the proper order of things.
I realize your version of game means girls are fighting to get into your orbit… and that is legit… and believe me, I don’t think that is Luke’s situation.
Your Top Guy has crazy high value. It all comes from that.
And that is a problem with layering Top Guy philosophy on most of our interactions… most of us don’t have that high-level value. It does not apply to most guys. It COULD… but we don’t have the value to make it happen… or if it to make sense. And/or, not with every girl. And/or… we’re working up to that level… because we haven’t collected enough ref experience to know that this all means.
I am 100% moving toward something more Top Guy… but I get why most of us can’t follow this discussion. It ONLY applies to crazy high value guys. It applies to all guys… but those guys have to unlock 1000 things first… until then, Top Guy is a language they can’t understand.
>> What the girl WANTS is to find a top guy…
>> she WANTS the top guy who has more options that she does, has more authority than she does etc.
— Yohami
Yes, totally true. No way hot girls feel that way about Luke.
Jonah Hill’s character in War Dogs… is a fat guy that can pull. He is fat… but projects strength. He is a prick (and that’s not what I like about him), but that guy could get girls to react. He’s a shark. He is top of the pyramid.
Weight is not the thing. It hurts you, but it’s not a dealbreaker. Luke has weight AND no value. He is fraud.
Luke… is a mess. Luke looks like a valet at bad restaurant. No way girls miss that. Luke is morality tale about eating too much pizza.
>> You’re not ‘flipping the script’ on her, you’re changing your position on the pyramid and pinging what she actually wants to do already
— Yohami
Fat Luke’s problem in this video… is he ONLY sees her value. He seems oblivious to his own. Which is low.
>> “When they stop qualifying, so you stop rewarding. And they want you to keep rewarding, so they keep qualifying to you.”
— Luke
No… and this is why that video sucks. It teaches another round of guys to think they need Luke’s tricks… to “flip the script.” That she will magically qualify, if you keep giving her hoops and teasing…
== GIRLS QUALIFY TO GUYS THAT HAVE VALUE
Period. No value, no qualification. Period.
So IF… you’re a high value man, then… she gives a fuck about your hoop. Which if you present well, she may qualify to. If you are not… you’re an annoying asshole with this stuff.
This is all Game 1.0, all over again. Dumbasses “negging” thinking that will “create attraction.” This is the worst of game. The very bottom.
And he won’t touch that aspect… of how VALUE is essential. Because RSD can’t “sell value.” They can sell “tricks for guys with no value.” I like RSD… but not this shit.
You can get a girl to respond to you… insomuch as you have enough value for the thing you’re asking her to do.
^ This is someone else’s thought… I don’t where I got it. But THAT is a lesson worth thinking on.
And this lesson is WAY MORE FUNDAMENTAL, than the shit Luke peddles in that video.
>> “And the more they qualify to you [NOTICE THEY EDIT HERE]… the more attraction you’ll have with them, and the more fun you’re both gonna have.”
— Luke
He’s got it 100% backwards. Girls are attracted to you… so THEN they qualify. This is the same “backwards rationalization” BS Julien was pushing in the “it’s easy to make her your GF once you’ve fucked her.” KJ thinking. So dumb. So wrong.
“Something is supposed to happen after you flirt, but the thing isn’t happening. That’s because you’re not qualifying hard enough.”
— Luke
Can you see why that guy is a tool? So retarded. This is what every dumbass “PUA” thinks. So wrong.
He’s preaching that RSD guys just need to “try the technique harder (aka, “push against resistance”). And that is classic RSD stereotype… caveman American game. Terrible.
Nothing happens after you flirt because she is NOT attracted. Not to Luke.
And you CAN use breaking rapport to create attraction… but BECAUSE you’re a high value guy, and that shows in your willingness to break rapport. You ARE high value, so you don’t kiss her ass, when most guys would, so she notices that… she notices the VALUE, not the faking of false status.
>> “You can just use pure qualification to hook up with them. It’s really effective.”
— Luke
God that is dumb. And I can see the clueless guys believing it. That’s why it makes me mad. It’s preying on dumbasses.
Tyler would never say anything this stupid. Neither would Madison. Luke is a fucking tool… that’s why this is what he sells… game for guys with NO VALUE.
He is “bait” that RSD uses to find guys like him… and sell them ideas like Lukes. Sad.
“The opener is not the place to be man to woman. It’s just kind of silly.”
“If you’re doing man to woman on the opener… than you probably don’t have very much confidence”
— Luke
Look can’t go direct on the opener… because he has no value. He has to use his “little tricks,” because girls would walk away from him, if he went direct. Beyond obvious why this guy runs the game he does… situational, status-mooching, venue-tapping, “dirty trick” game… that guy sucks. He hides behind his “high end” stuff, because he is so low end.
I get that you are into his line about what the interaction looks like… I hear your point there. But fuck I hate that video. Beyond terrible.
And I’ll add that when he talks about “positive feedback,” he’s onto something. Mixing the “throw a big hoop, if she doesn’t respond, tease her… you’re just not qualifying her hard enough” with the other concept of positive feedback shows me he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
He is mashing together concepts he doesn’t understand.
He may be able to use some of this in the field… when he has the girl convinced he must “be someone,” or why would a guy as weak as him be in high-end places?? That is about her confusion, not about his game.
Luke may be a fluke and a keyboard jokey, parroting ideas he got from elsewhere and being used as a fat guy to attract costumers without value. Part of his niche is “look at me I’ve got no inner game, I get laid because I socialize groups”
Still –
The reason I point to his videos is that when he talks about groups interaction he nails it. The whole thing about non-sexual interaction with groups but forming mini hierarchies and multiple connections, and the way of interacting with people, getting them to opening and doing playful banter, that’s all on point.
Does he get laid? don’t know. I’ve seen way worse looking guys getting laid that did half of what he’s doing, so, maybe. Maybe not.
RSDMax recently had a few videos about gaming groups that were better than Lukes.
That Fuckboy dude that BlueValentine shared here yesterday also talks about gaming groups and venues and is way more cohesive and packaged (Im impressed). He does some game-at-day and stops a girl. Check him out.
So this is all about ideas and knowledge – fuck Luke, it’s not about him, not even if I bring up a video of him, Im not into personality cults. (I could even point to something from Torero if I ever found something worth it)
I’ll address your other stuff
TOP GUY talk again.
When a guy is on top of the social circle, and he’s good at being there and he’s translating that to his sexual life, that is a very specific set of traits and behaviors.
These pack of behaviors and attitudes are, on their own, attractive to women.
Women are both attracted to both the social status, and the behavior that comes associated with that status.
They may be attracted to a guy because of his social status, but if they interact with a guy and he doesn’t act the part, the the attraction is gone.
SO THIS IS YOUR ENTRY POINT:
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She may not be attracted to a guy because of his social status, but get increasingly attracted because he has the behavior of a top guy.
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Top guy behavior is attractive.
Bottom guy behavior is unattractive.
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When a girl finds you attractive, she pursues you.
When a girl doesn’t find you attractive, she puts barriers.
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AND THIS:
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All the sexual courtship is a game in which the girl gives you game after game after game after game, in which she offers you opportunities for you to chose if you are bottom guy or top guy.
She will give you plenty of clues, and put you in situations where she’s expecting you to do a move, and she has an idea, a feel of what the top guy would do, and what the bottom guy would do, and her responses are pre-scripted for each. She does this with a mix of her own biological preferences, cultural references, life experiences with other men that have turned her on or off.
All the time, from the moment 0 when you started interacting with her. she is both
1) Hopeful, hungry, desiring that you exhibit top guy behavior and turn her on so you get in
And
2) Uninterested, repulsed, angry, desiring that you exhibit bottom guy behavior and turn her off so she expels you out.
Both sides are there. You’ll choose the path yourself. Your job is to find her desire and rub it. How?
By acting like a top guy and not like a bottom guy in all the minigames.
What does that mean?
That’s just “Game”
How does it look in practice?
You are:
Centered, confident, dominant, self reassured, self amused, non needy, commanding, sexual. You exhibit your value (stories, conversation, body posture, your own self comfort) and swing that in front of her until something shines.
What does that mean?
She’ll give you a different look, she’ll look pleased, she’ll punch you, she’ll come closer, she’ll show compliance, she’ll be invested, etc. That’s the ‘what she responds to’ or arousal.
Then you focus on that and ramp up, increase it, take to the next level.
Then retreat and keep swinging.
Every time you do that her ‘desire’ increases, her hunger increases, the more she comes to you. The more she comes to you, the more arousal spots are exposed, the ‘easier’ the game gets because the less you have to figure out in blind, it becomes less about ‘swinging and seeing what shines’ and more about actually rubbing stuff.
So what does Top / bottom guy means here?
Bottom guy chooses the obstacles, the hard work, the plowing, the resistance, the confusion, the neediness. So in every instance there’s conflict, stuff to be negotiated.
Bottom guy is tussle, chase, plowing, neediness, work.
Bottom guy is unattractive so all of that, every time it’s chosen, it’s decreasing your value and making ‘the game harder’, it’s making her arousal spots more hidden, the vagina dries some, she puts more barriers.
While
Top guy chooses opportunities, effortless actions, not pushing against resistance, clarity, abundance. In every instance there’s resolution, a path straighforward.
Top guy is confidence, ‘know how’.
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So
Bottom guy is working ‘against the girl’. Against the girl defenses.
Top guy is working ‘with the girl’. With the girl desires.
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If you’re having problems with this then likely you’re carrying in behaviors from bottom guy frame and inserting them where they don’t belong, likely:
You had a successful pickup and the girl is aroused by you and wants more of that. She’s seeing the top guy shit she wants.
Then you bait and switch and pursue her with bottom guy frame so she starts rising up walls and putting resistance till she figures out what is going on with it.
So in some cases you’ll arouse her and in many cases you’ll push her away.
——
Why I don’t like Daygame for learning this? because you don’t have context.
When I was learning this stuff I was in night game, or bars or clubs, or social circles. I saw (quite a few times) the kind of men the girls I was pursuing said YES to, right after rejecting me. I remember with some sourness how I was pursuing some girls and chasing hard, and then how they would end up fucking some other guy with ZERO effort. I remember, right before turning pua, pursuing this hot girl for MONTHS and being friends and beta shit, and how then she landed some hotter stud who didn’t give fucks about her. So being in the presence of the whole tribe and watching the dynamics first hand is the ‘red pill’. Doing it in isolation and trying many different girls without witnessing what needed to happen for they to open with OTHER MEN is a very sloppy ride. Which is why I say… get into a tribe a be an alpha there. You need exposure. Once you know what you’re doing and where you’re going, go back solo if that’s your thing. But fix that compass.
End of mini rant :-)
——-
Addressing your lines here
“A wolf chases the rabbit…”
In sexual courtship the man is not a wolf and the woman is not a rabbit. You got that backwards, even though this is in front of you. It’s invisible because of where you put yourself in the pyramid.
All these girls you think are rabbits, are sending nude pics and doing raunchy talk with some guy they want to hunt down.
For every wall and rejection they give to most men, they are giving highways and opportunities to the top guys they want to bang / snatch.
Women are not innocent pristine asexual pure creatures who are afraid of sex, so
They are not ‘rabbit’s for your wolf.
You know they wear make up, dress in clothing that reinforces their sexuality, act all seductive and get closer to the men they find attractive, backstab each other, form their whole friendships just so they can have access to top guys and they often share them.
You saw all the cute girls circling around the ‘cool guys’ from that boy band in a corner. You know groupies exist. You have seen girls open to you quite fast (and not care, like this is a regular monday for them), and you’ve seen girls increasingly get hungrier after banging you and want ‘more more more’ and wanting to get it all and capitalize on all your resources.
But somehow you think you’re a wolf and they are rabbits so your job is to run after them as they run away from you.
You’ve got your frame references mixed up.
Im trying to help you make a line on the sand and pick one.
Hint: one of them gets you laid.
:-)
——————————
“Your Top Guy has crazy high value. It all comes from that.”
There’s the external, and the internal.
The internal is your behavior.
The external is your position on the tribe hierarchy.
The external gives you access to the better girls, not just in logistics, but they come ‘pre open’, there’s intrinsic arousal added to the mix, the game gets ‘easy’ by default. This is the reason why ‘bartenders get laid’ and girls were all around that group of boybands. This is natural biology, girls want the guys top center, and want to run away from non top center guys. Can’t fight this. But
The internal is the real deal, and wherever, whenever you run from there, you re-create the external.
This is why I go to meeting with guys who run the companies I work for and their wives girlfriends and sisters want to bang ME.
Because it doesn’t matter where we go or what the actual societal rules are, Im the top guy and Im running behavior and my life is all seen through the top guy frame. So when I interact with them I
– Challenge their boundaries
– Reward compliance, punish not compliance
– Act funny, confident, self reassured
– Flirt
– Double down in what shines, avoid walls and traps
– Always choose to be top and not bottom
– Dont chase
– Don’t work hard / be abundant / go for opportunities not for conflict / escalate
All of which is attractive, so in every instance and iteration the ‘game gets easier’, not ‘harder’. And this is working on all levels with all the people, not just women.
Take the best things you’ve learned from game and apply them to your interactions with men. It’s all the same.
And women are not rabbits :D they are wolves too.
Just look at what they wear lol. It’s all bait to hunt down top guy. “hey mr top guy won’t you look at me?”. All the walls and facades are to simmultaneously push bottom guys away. It’s a filtering mechanism.
Decide that these barriers are not for YOU.
——————-
“And that is a problem with layering Top Guy philosophy on most of our interactions… most of us don’t have that high-level value”
Actually the problem is that must guys decide they are bottom and that this is something they won’t change, but still want the pussy.
Enter the paradoxes.
Check that Fuckboy guy. He’s a skinny bad looking guy with horrible hair, but full on top-guy.
He wont bang the supermodels now but he’s very, very on the path. If he’s stays on the path, watch him in 10 years.
“It does not apply to most guys. It COULD… but we don’t have the value to make it happen”
You don’t have the value, internal or external?
If external, you don’t need ‘that much’, the girls you’re going for are not banging Leonardo Dicaprio. You’re competing in a much lower societal value ladder. All you need is competent clothing and grooming and a fashion style, and the be in command of the little social circles where you’ll be with the girl, like the restaurant, the hotel etc, all you need is to be ‘top’ in these mini circles (for her to be attracted to you because of the external frame)
If internal, why not? this should be your main thing to work on at all times and forever. This is what is carried along with you. “most guys don’t have the internal value to pull top guy behavior”. Well fix that. :-D what are you waiting for? shit is not going to get fixed by itself.
“And/or, not with every girl. And/or… we’re working up to that level… because we haven’t collected enough ref experience to know that this all means.”
Yeah that’s very important. So how do you collect enough ref experience?
“I am 100% moving toward something more Top Guy”
I applaud you man.
“but I get why most of us can’t follow this discussion.”
Yeah. Not sure what to do here.
“It ONLY applies to crazy high value guys”
The bartender is not a ‘crazy high value guy’
When I go somewhere and people don’t know me Im not a ‘crazy high value guy’. By the end of the interactions I am the ‘omg that guy I want to have him’ guy. So how did that happen?
Come to the realization that women are hunters and they go for what they want man. Their sexual dance is not to run-away. They come closer when they want it. Your job is not to plow through their defenses. Your job is to be close, flirt, let them open, and then reward them for doing so, and escalate.
This is not ‘crazy value omg magic only dicaprio can pull that stuff’
This is basic male-female dance. And the one you’re doing as well, just intermixed with stuff that shouldn’t be there because you are coming off the wrong assumptions. But the girl tornado will show you, eventually, as you are able to repeat things that work, and what happens when you do these things only, and nothing of the other stuff.
“Yes, totally true. No way hot girls feel that way about Luke.”
Fuck Luke, but again –
When I was partying a lot I saw worse looking guys than Luke getting laid with hot stripper like girls because the guys were: top, commanding, decisive, funny, teasy, non caring. And all the other guys in the room were either bottom guys, or were top guys with more girls that they could handle (like me).
Cheers man. Im waiting on your part 2- 3 -4 on your adventures there.
I assume you’re too busy having sex to write these pots :-)
More on this:
“When a girl finds you attractive, she pursues you.”
What a girl does to pursue you still has the ‘passive flavor’ on it:
– She gives you time and space to make your moves.
– She gives you attention so you can make your moves.
– She puts herself in situations where it’s easy for you to make your moves.
– She puts her arousal spots right in front of you so basically anything you do will be a right move
– Offer compliance and follow your lead and be positive when you make your moves
– If you’re still not getting it but she’s aroused enough otherwise, she’ll even make the move for you (the one she’s been waiting for), she’ll take your hand and put it on her boob, she’ll ask “you have a condom?”, if you’re in a relationship she’ll ask for the flowers or date or whatever. The more they have to force your moves, the worse though, because it means you’ve been missing out and things will go downhill unless you pick up the pace
So basically what the girl does to pursue you is to put herself in front of you, so you can pursue her. Give you hints and offer arousal spots that you can rub, then moan in pleasure when you are rubbing them. Chase you a little around with their arousal spots and put them on your face when you’re not getting it, and ultimately force your hand and make you win if you’re too behind. This can also result in ‘please fuck me’ depending on the girl.
If their arousal is too high and you’re unavailable, if for example they are behind a cue of girls, then this results in intersexual fight with other girls and they send nudes and wear explicit sexual clothing to out-do their competition.
Hint: makeup is sexually-explicit-lingerie and all of them wear it. They are all in this game. They are all pursuing someone. Since their hormones hit at age 13. All they do all day is try to find this guy who will have the right answers for their particular flavor of girl game.
[But somehow you think you’re a wolf and they are rabbits so your job is to run after them as they run away from you.]
I get this much deeper now.
If you’re the wolf running after the rabbits, you are bottom guy.
If you are top guy, they are the ones trying to run after you.
The only time this works where you run after a rabbit and after some resistance gives itself to you is if the girl has no other real options, she’s not at the level where she can be with Top Guys or have no access to them, so they give in because you are the least Bottom of the Bottom Guys they know.
Like black Tim says: “Most girls who sleep with PUAs doing techniques do not really desire those guys. But every fuckboy they fuck they think about him when he is not and desire him with every fiber of their body.” He also talks about how you shouldn’t experience resistance with a girl or LMR.
Now I understand also why Nash’s sticking point of girls fucking one time and then disappearing and now wanting to continue the sexual relationship. They did not desire Nash at that level. They had sex for whatever reason of their own, like too long without sex, or because it was a new experience, or because it seemed fun, but it was more about the situation and the experience than viewing the man as truly attractive.
Girls don’t leave or disappear when they meet a Top Guy. They desire, pursue him and want to please him again and again. If a girl has sex and then disappears, sex happened for another reason other than desiring and viewing the man as Top Guy.
“If you’re the wolf running after the rabbits, you are bottom guy.”
Yep, that was my most painful realization and what flipped me into PUA. That was the crack on my own frame that made me crash and burn from that old identity into the new one (not that it was the last!).
I had this girl and I pursued her fully and completely, put all my eggs in there. All the best of me, all my beta spiritual rapport, all my pursuing, persistent, chase abilities, all my beta well built nice guy confident guy but also chasey and romantic, all in one basket, all for one girl who should have liked me, because ‘we were a right fit’.
Then understanding that if I had to do all that chase, I was ‘below her value’ and she wanted someone ‘above her value’ and that she wouldn’t put that guy through any of these hoops I was jumping like crazy and which such skill. “hey look at me jumping and bending, see how much I want you”. She went to bang someone less invested, and to that one she put her boobs on his face and danced closely to him (figuratively) and he had to do so little to take her.
————
So the first thing I did was to stop doing bottom guy stuff.
I didn’t know what ‘top guy’ behavior was like yet. I just watched myself and stopped doing bottom guy stuff. I stopped all the chase. I refrained to just ‘ping’.
That changed everything in an instant. I though it was going to take more time. But with women, they SWITCH on and off and switch you into top or bottom frame in every iteration. So when they offer bait and you don’t reply with bottom frame, the INSTANTLY offer top guy bait (or arousal) right way, thus, making the game easier immediately.
Then I went to burn many leads because I still didn’t know how to take on the opportunities.
But stopping bottom guy stuff should come first. There’s no instance when any kind of bottom guy stuff gives you anything good or makes things for the better. Even the situations where you chased and worked and plowed – you could have banged these same chicks EASIER with LESS work from the right frame. And you would also be able to bang everyone else.
There’s no excuse :-)
[ “hey look at me jumping and bending, see how much I want you”.]
That was me. Yesterday.
Yohami, Mr M talks here about how unreactiveness is an intermediate level thing and how there is such a thing as attractive reactiveness.
What do you think?
http://www.seductiontuition.com/mr-m/pua-attractive-reactiveness/
“attractive reactiveness” Is a clumsy way of saying “reward and punish” “or double down on arousal” or “agree and amplify”
Unreactiveness is not an intermediate level thing. You have to be unreactive to the core so you are the one leading the pace and not the one following the pace. But after you act, after you move, she’ll also act and move: and you MUST act on that, or ‘react’ on that, which will be attractive, that’s what I’ve been saying as ‘take her’ as well. You must take on the opportunities she gives you. If you don’t, then wtf are you doing :-)
[You had a successful pickup and the girl is aroused by you and wants more of that. She’s seeing the top guy shit she wants.
Then you bait and switch and pursue her with bottom guy frame so she starts rising up walls and putting resistance till she figures out what is going on with it.]
This is my biggest problem now. Girls love me during the pick up and their pupils dilate like I am literally heroine for them.
Then after a few texts I get ignored as fuck.
Of course, better text game will make a difference but I see it as a deeper issue: I have to work on my Top Guy Frame and letting go of Bottom Guy frame like I let go of girls.
The only girl that is responding is the Virgin girl who I met online, not day gaming. I had a date with her yesterday and afterwards I was literally in bed sad about the dynamic: She was the seller, she was the one in command, she was the one putting barriers that I negotiated, she was the one setting the pace of the interaction and letting me know what we can talk about (intellectual stuff) and what we cannot do (no kino).
I knew then and there this girl goes on dates with me because she doesn’t feel sexually threatened. She goes on because she feel safe that I won’t fuck her. Which made me fucking realize I am Mr Nice Guy on dates and give women too much of the frame because I thought at some level if I do that then they’ll like me, and if I take charge, they’ll tell me to fuck off and leave.
Now I realize it is about installing more and more every day the Top Guy Frame. I pinged all girls from daygame on my phone, and no one responded, so I am letting them all go.
It is not their fault. They thought I am Top Guy then were repulsed by the chase. It is my responsibility to truly become that attractive Top Guy.
Bingo
He’s talking about me here, hahaha
https://youtu.be/EmfahqQwK6s?t=8m38s
Bravo, so well articulated. It’s so good to hear the “transformation” stories. Makes the change for us guys easier to visualize. Thanks
Blue Valentine, I’ll chime in with my two cents on how you might step out of nice guy mode on dates. I’m not in the room with you, so I can only speculate what’s going on but I’ll take a stab at it…
The reality is that if she’s going out with you she already wants to fuck you, so the key thing is not doing things that get in the way of that and kill the attraction. In other words, focus on simplicity and removing the things that are not working rather than adding in new things. It’s not that you’re not doing enough, you’re doing too much.
1) What is your default response when she’s talking? Do you agree with and reward everything she says? When I used to talk to hot girls pretty much everything they would say, I’d come back with “oh cool!” “nice!” or “that’s so awesome!” This is not only unattractive because it’s seeking validation from her and killing any possibility of tension and polarity, it’s also insincere because do you really think everything that comes out of her mouth is amazing? Overtime I shifted my default to neutral things like “ok” “I see” “fair enough” or just silence. This is not only more attractive but it makes her invest more and sell herself. Sure, every so often if a girl says something that genuinely impresses me I’ll express that but it’s not my default.
The non-verbal equivalent to this is probably even more important… Are you nodding enthusiastically to everything she says and grinning non-stop like you’re so happy to just be talking to a hot girl like it never happens to you, or do you have a neutral or even quizzical/skeptical expression? The key is that your interaction should be building rather than dissolving tension and polarity.
2) Are you hiding your sexual intent and energy or are you *expressing* it? You can express it through touch, eyes, vocal tone, or verbals. It doesn’t really matter how as long as it’s natural and comes from a place of desire rather than neediness. Find what works best for you. Some guys do no or very little ‘kino’ at least early on, but they have strong eyes or verbals or vice versa. The key thing is that the interaction is man-to-woman rather than friend-to-friend. Think of the conversation as foreplay and as part of being sexual rather than a qualification/test for it. Just like you brush your teeth before you go to bed, you talk to a girl a bit before you fuck her.. :)
3) Who’s doing most of the talking on dates? Unless she is unusually shy, let her invest and do most of it. I used to do 75%+ of the talking on ‘first dates.’ Now I do maybe ~25%, often less. This means she invests more, it frees you from self-qualification mode, it promotes comfort because the degree to which a girl feels connected is not based on how well she feels she knows you but how well she feels you know her, and it lets you actually get a better sense of her. And if you’re verbal game isn’t really on yet it gives you fewer chances to slip up.
One way to stay present and stay in the sexual desire frame rather than the self-qualification frame is to focus on little physical things about her when you’re interacting: her hand gestures, the dilation of her pupils, her scent, the feel of her skin etc. Focus on her and what you like about her, rather than what she thinks about you. Who gives a fuck what she thinks about you. And I’d say at this stage in your game, set up your dates with the intent of escalating quickly, make them come to you i.e., meet somewhere near your place. If they don’t agree to that then you’ve probably already lost the frame and best to move on to other leads…
This.
I am not as bad as you might think. Otherwise I wouldn’t get girls to have the bambi huge eyes.
It’s just that I do crush against any walls they put out, WAY too much, and I do sometimes some kind things because I like kindness, which is sending mixed signals.
Girls this hot wouldn’t go on a date with me if I was pure Bottom Guy. I have balls, and when I look at them, I am not impressed by beauty. BUT I am a bit too kind and I crush against walls way too directly which makes them slow down and want to know wtf is going on, is this a Top Guy like I thought or a bottom?
The way I usually deal with Walls like “I am not ready for a relationship” or whatever is by chasing more. Today’s dates I was like “I don’t want to be your BF, you’re just sexy”, and “I won’t be your friend. If you text me, it is ON. If not, don’t bother texting me.”
Which isn’t the best way, but much better than Chivalry.
Well, in honesty, the Chivalry thing was not that bad. I was on a date with a girl and she had severe stomach pain because of the food so I carried her in my arms to the pharmacy, bought for her stomach pain pills, I waited with her until she felt better and then I walked with her slowly until she arrived safely to her house. I do not think it is cool to be an asshole in such a situation, but it was not a good move sexually because now she moved to very slow sex boyfriend potential mode. But what I did there is what she calls chivalry. Still, on a stupid level that was too high an investment into her so that good deed got me punished.
I honestly did not do it so she likes me. I help people who need my help. But it was me investing more than her which can be viewed as chasing.
“I carried her in my arms to the pharmacy”
That’s great! carry her your place.
“I am not as bad as you might think.”
You clearly have potential, but you’re somehow shooting yourself in the foot.
“I don’t want to be your BF, you’re just sexy”, and “I won’t be your friend. If you text me, it is ON. If not, don’t bother texting me.”
How does stuff like this come up early on in your interactions? I mean what’s the context, what is she saying that you respond like this? Or are you not responding to something she says but simply putting this out?
“I do sometimes some kind things because I like kindness, which is sending mixed signals.”
Kindness is good. It’s being ‘nice’ as in overly polite, affirming every thing she says in order to get her validation, and having no edge, no conviction that is unattractive.
Yohami, the black Tim’s video reminds me so much of what you say about Bottom Guys, it’s as if this guy reads you ;)
This guy is the shit. Watch him grow from here.
Good stuff finding this BV
He’s good
Ok, new text case study, maybe Yohami can comment.
Me: Hello
Her: Hi! I real liked our conversation, love positive people
Me: I enjoyed speaking portuguese to you, Brazilian girl
Her: Nossa! Your portuguese was perfect
Me: Thank you. It’s one of the 5 languages I speak.
Her: Is one of the languages you speak French?
Me: Yes!
Her: I want to learn French, but the grammar is too complicated.
Me: I liked your shape. Your body is not that of a french girl.
Her: It is not, is it :) It is brazilian but I like the French girls’ style and I think the language is beautiful.
Me: Are you 21?
Her: Yes, I wish I was still 19 but sadly I got older. And you?
Me: ok.
[Fuck it, I’m too busy to respond. She is here for 3 days and I don’t think my game is good enough to fuck her. Let’s go get new girls and start the interaction more from a Top Guy frame. I noticed I slipped a bit in this texting convo. And I am used to dates going nowhere, so fuck giving this shit a try.]
I noticed that came from a Bottom Guy frame where I got so used to walls that I expect walls, I expect things not to work out even with a DTF girl like this.
Brazilian girls are very proactive sexually which is why you’re going through so easily even with bad / beta text game here. Stop fucking around and take her out, and bang her. Dude. Take action. This is easy (so is she).
Take her out to a venue close to your home, flirt / banter / escalate / have fun for an hour or two, take her home and bang her. THIS IS WHAT SHE IS EXPECTING. Act the part.
It’s a waste of time. I’ve been on dates with 3 girls in the last 2 weeks, and I get very little compliance in moving them. They put a wall when I try to change venue. Something is not right in how I do things, so it’s not as easy for me as just taking her out and banging her. If it were, she’d be the 4th girl in these two weeks I bang, but I am getting 0 lays out of dates AND girls don’t even answer my texts after dates, except with some shit like “I love your kindness and chivalry”. Fuck this shit. I try to not bang against walls but I end up then not moving forward, just being an outcome independent chill dude but with no killer instinct for dominance.
Lol, don’t be a pussy man. Send her a text to meet, set a place near your home, have fun, and bang her. Practice not doing whatever “kind and chivalry” you’ve been up to. Being out there and dealing with women will do more for you than talking here about what a ‘top guy’ would do instead.
Actually, top guy would go out with her and bang her. So start by doing exactly that.
Well, another girl texted so I’m setting up two dates for tomorrow, and I’ll fucking escalate and do what I want and fuck this shit.
The word “chivalry” just killed my mood man. To me, that is worse than saying “you are are nice”. A fucking girl texted me that today and it made me feel like a total fucking loser, like so extreme that a girl had to dig up a dictionary and find an archaic word like “chivalry” to use on how Mr Nice Guy on dates I am lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5L4PS9pE6I
“becoming the kind of guy that women naturally gravitate towards” “being vs doing”
That’s what I hit on 2012 and I call “top guy”. Coming from a badly groomed homeless looking guy. Nice!
Dude, I am having the weirdest experiences with Daygame. I met this gorgeous brunette last week in the metro, probably one of the most gorgeous girls I’ve ever took on a date, and I took her on an insta-date and I was not impressed by her beauty and I was challenging and judging her and telling her what to do, and her pupils were fucking huge, and two of my cold reads turned out to be actually true (That she is a law student and some other shit). Anyway, after the date, she responded then ignored my text. Today, I checked her instagram through her phone number and it turns out she was celebrating her lesbian couple anniversary, two 20 years old hot girls who are a couple making out and saying to each other how they found true love lol Well, that explains the text ignore, it wasn’t me who sucked at the date, it feels better.
Anyway, here is the text convo:
Me: BlueValentine. I enjoyed our coffee today. Let’s do it again.
Her: Me too :) It was great.
[After a day]
Me: Tomorrow? ;) I know it is your day off.
[Ignore]
[After a week]
Me: I think that you have a gf.
Her: Yes.
Me: If you both want to add a man to your life sometimes, that would be cool. If not, it is ok. I enjoyed our coffee.
—-
Now let’s see what happens. I let go of this girl, but I did leave my call to action for a threesome ;)
Congrats on offering yourself up, so that’s a plus and better than nothing. The text and the framing is all off and wrong. Can you tell what you’re doing on each line? see if you can point at push, pull, rapport, chase, leading? walls?
You got most things right – now, go to whatever is happening in you where the ‘bottom frame’ is originating these lines, and kill it. It’s ok to be dead for a while. You’ll reborn.
Pointers:
—————————
“Me: BlueValentine. I enjoyed our coffee today. Let’s do it again.
Instead of stating how you feel, make her feel something.
This goes deep and to the core.
When you frame things as “I like spending time with you”, you are setting things up for a “me too” from her, and what would follow after her “me too” is that you would escalate.
So this “I enjoyed” is a ramp for the eventual escalation. But the escalation isn’t happening until she says “me too”, so you are asking for permission to escalate.
Why you say? why is this not like a softener or a ramp?
Because you’re doing it through rapport.
“I enjoyed our coffee” is impersonal and safe. You’re not flirting. You’re not addressing her. This is not about you and her. “coffee” was nice. Factory had a similar line where he texted a girl “Nice kiss last night”, so the “kiss” was nice. But why is this being brought up at all?
So she validates YOU with the “yes”
So then YOU have the permission to move forward.
So this is a beta ramp and beta ramps lead to friend zones. You have to escalate without permission, leading the pace, not asking her to lead the pace. Whenever you give the ball to her like that, unless she’s very DTF, she will slow down the pace, not increase it, because only bottom guy gives her the power like this, so she’ll slow down things to see you perform more.
So how do you ramp up?
Just compare
Me: “I enjoyed our coffee today”
Vs a very small tweak:
Me: I enjoyed your company today (now it’s about you and her)
This is a SMALL tweak. Now let’s tweak it for real.
OF COURSE you enjoyed the company, and OF COURSE she enjoyed yours. So how do you communicate when that is a GIVEN?
How do you communicate to HER and make her react to you? when it’s a given that she’s into this with you already?
Me: Hey little nerd ;-) (if you feel like negging and teasing)
Me: Hey pretty girl ;-) (if you feel like validating her and she responds well to compliments)
Me: Sup ;-) (neutral top guy one)
When she reacts / responds to that, call to action
Me: When are you free? I’ll take you out (my default)
———————
So how did this go instead?
“Me: BlueValentine. I enjoyed our coffee today. Let’s do it again.
Her: Me too :) It was great.”
She took your beta gift, that coffee was so good!
Then she ignores your call to action completely.
You set this trap for yourself.
So what are you going to do now? she just gave you a wall.
If you pursue her, now you are officially chasing. So what do you do? PUNISH the shit out of her
Me: You’re about the weirdest girl I’ve met in the metro
Do you see any chance she’ll choose to stay on her wall and attempt to make you pursue her so she disqualifies yourself, after you neg her like that?
Nope, she’ll come to you, either aroused or angry, so the fucking “wall” is gone.
This was your fault for doing beta shit, so she took it and let you go (set a wall), but now you punish that wall, and you’re again in the game.
Which you didn’t do, so.
———————
“[After a day]
Me: Tomorrow? ;) I know it is your day off.”
A day passes and now you pursue her more. She turned her back on you, and now you’re talking to her back as she slowly walks away.
“I know is your day off”
This is creepy shit and several things. One, you let her know you remember, so you CARE, you were listening to her shit and remember enough to care to arrange things in a day that is good for her, so good little boy! but TWO it is trying to force her hand because you KNOW she is going to be free so what’s her excuse not to date you?
Creepy as fuck.
Again compare to
“Me: When are you free? I’ll take you out”
What do you see?
“Me: Tomorrow? I know it’s your day off”
Clingy and desperate as fuck.
“[Ignore]”
Predictable result
———————
[After a week]
“Me: I think that you have a gf.
Her: Yes.”
Good response would be
Me: She’s hot ;-)
But basically, why are you talking to her and about her girlfriend. For all you know she’s cheating on her and fucking guys on the side or she wouldn’t be going on instadates with random guys she meets on the street.
Rule: anything a girl is willing to do with you, assume she’s willing to do with anyone else, and specially with guys who got their shit together more than you. So if she’s doing this with you what would she do with a more attractive guy than you? What has she done before? how often does she do it? How often will she do this in the future? I mean – you’re not that special, see how little she cares? so she’s going out with random guys, likely fucking the guys, or at least giving them enough space to hit on her. Why?
What does she want?
So if I was going to talk to her about the gf it’d be to fuck the gf basically. Which is odd if you’re talking to her to bang her. But you go for a threesome. Which could work. You still would have to be arousing HER first. If she doesn’t want your dick in, why would she bring it to the bed with her other lover. She needs to want it first. So you:
“Me: If you both want to add a man to your life sometimes, that would be cool. ”
I love the balls you had to write that.
It’s also clueless as fuck.
Because it has balls, it could work. There’s a % of cases where the girl is on the bridge of liking you and having balls does the trick. The “that would be cool” though is naive and kid like.
Kid: It would be cool to bang two hot lesbians
:-D
And again it’s stating what would be cool for you, instead of attempting to make her feel something. Then you state again
“I enjoyed our coffee”
After disqualifying yourself
“if not it’s ok”
So – if you want to fuck the two girls, first you have to be banging one. Then you flirt with the other. Then the first one feels you are going to fuck the friend anyway so she arranges it as a threesome so she can have some control of the situation. It’s usually the more lesbian one arranging the threesome so the more heterosexual one doesn’t get all wild on her own hunting dick. But in this case she’s likely the more heterosexual one (she had that instadate with you, and gave you her contact), so you can just bang her directly.
But she has to want it.
That’s not gonna happen with you chasing her.
Ok, let me try. I am not sure I really truly understand what each of these mean [push, pull, rapport, chase, leading? walls?] but let’s see/
[Me: BlueValentine. I enjoyed our coffee today. Let’s do it again.]
Ok. “I enjoyed out coffee”, it means it was a special event to me. So I am not used to this. So I am not Top Guy.
“Let’s do it again” Not commanding, I am making it somewhat up to her to agree to do it again.
[Her: Me too :) It was great.]
“Me too :)” She is offering compliance.
“It was great.” Validating me but she did not offer the next date, so that is a wall.
[Me: Tomorrow? ;) I know it is your day off.]
“Tomorrow? ;)” Here it seems like I am trying to get her to accept the date, putting too much investment into this.
“I know it is your day off” Justifying the date. As if she only meets me if it is her day off. So she is not chasing me. So I am Bottom Guy
[Me: I think that you have a gf.]
“I think you have a gf.” It shows I did not let her go. So I am bottom guy for texting after getting ignored when I proposed a date and received no answer.
[Her: Yes.]
“Yes.” Low investment response. She let me go there, not expecting or leaving room for a response. Top Girl frame. Wall is “I have a gf, you are not Top Guy enough for me to fuck you even though I have a gf, so show me are you Top Guy or Bottom Guy.” Still, I wouldn’t know how to respond to this from a Top Guy frame.
[Me: If you both want to add a man to your life sometimes, that would be cool. If not, it is ok. I enjoyed our coffee.]
“If you both want to add a man to your life sometimes” that is almost begging for pussy, with the “sometimes” and “add a man to your life” rather than being direct and expressive, I care too much of what she would thing.
“If not, it is ok, I enjoyed our coffee”, this is coming from Bottom Guy, like “beggars cannot be choosers”. So I am making it a big deal that she had coffee with me that this by itself would make me happy, so she had an impact on me, so I am lower status than her, therefore Bottom Guy.
[…] BLUE VALENTINE [link] […]
Yohami, your analysis explained A LOT. Especially the beta ramp, I do that often, so I should make sure what I send is not something where I expect her to validate me in some way before I escalate. I suddenly started to get this now.
[Instead of stating how you feel, make her feel something.]
Yohami, could you please go back to basics and explain how you view “making a girl feel something”?
I guess one of the biggest things a lot of guys lack is they are clueless about how to make a girl feel something.
You make her feel something when you address HER, in positive or negative way (flirt / validations / neg / roleplays / arousal / push / pull) all the repertoire is stuff that makes her feel.
Beta can’t make her feel, beta wants to be ‘nice respectful and useful’. Bottom frame insists on being a tool for her and have her command.
—–
The small tweak of “I liked our coffee” to “I liked your company” goes a LONG way. If the girl is DTF and you tell her “I liked our coffee” what she hears is “oh he liked my company”, so it gets translated. But if you state “I liked your company” that mentions HER and is something where you are the judge and you state a validation statement about HER, so that makes her feel something, directly.
But if she’s a nerdy corky girl, and you send this instead “Hey little nerd ;-)” That makes her feel much more than “I liked your company” because now you are pointing at a specific characteristic she has and rubbing it.
—–
What will make the girl feel the most is
A) Being in presence of a man who is top-guy. Just being in the presence. How you talk, tease, joke, tell stories, etc, just the presence is trance inducing
B) Being addressed directly, being talked to (coffee vs company)
C) Being invited to his space and given familiarity (kino, nicknames, roleplays)
AND big deal:
D) Being pushed away, teased, negged, rejected, ignored, when in bad behavior – AND being pulled, taken, validated, given attention when in good behavior.
So all the stuff I’ve been writing about top guy is also how you make the girl feel. Because all the stuff that comes from there is what she wants to feel. And she’ll expose these points to you directly very early in the interaction.
————–
Case point your brazilian slut (lol). Do you see all the information she’s volunteering?
And do you see how you avoid all the openings she’s giving you.
What would make her feel something is you taking these openings and taking them somewhere.
Check Fuckboy’s Tim stuff on text messages and his videos, he’s always talking about emotion and how go generate emotion.
It would come down to “be real” and “talk to her”.
But the ‘real you’ needs to be grounded in top frame or you can’t even communicate because all you’ll do is try to jump through hoops
Yohami,
Yohami,
What you teach here is really helpful and you put it really crystal clear!
Esp. the “reward her when she complies!” is gold, when one is programmed to neg and tease all the time. Often bottom guy frame makes you watch out for walls where she opens you doors.
Now I see a lot of my own mistakes (and what I did right), but I have a question re. a girl that got upset while texting, can you help? – [I will already comment from what I’ve learnt from you so far.]
So she’s a young waitress from Moroccan descent whose no. I took last summer in Italy, let’s say in San Remo. Let’s call her Nadina (orig. texting was in Italian).
On Dec. 24 she included me in her Xmas ping list on WhatsApp (it had crashed some time ago, so she was not in my contact list)
45 min later I responded pretending (well, half true) not knowing who she is/ if she’s another girl coming to San Remo
Me (2h later)
‘’Ah noooo… ? Nadina ? are you at Sanremo for Xmas, shy and mystic girl? ;)’
Her (2h later)
‘From Nadina the simple girl ? how are you, Philander’
[Interesting how she never uses questionmarks – a quick fix recommended by Tim Fuckboyframe]
Me (one day later, Dec. 25)
‘Simple? more the still waters that run deep… ? Where are you?’
Her (ghosted)
[Using my name is an IOI/compliance I’d say and ignoring it was Beta punishment for no reason. Logical effect is that she thinks fuck off]
Me (one month later, when her WA pic which she changes every couple days showed her skiing and a boy)
‘You already have a son? ?’
Her (8 min later)
‘No lil’ brother’
[Again, quick response is compliance which I did again not reward. Stupid.]
Me (almost a month later, when I returned to San Remo where she still works, Sat 7:40pm)
‘We have a drink?’
Her (7:54pm)
‘When’
Me (8:28pm)
‘9pm old town’
[All straight to the goal]
Her (9:08pm)
‘Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?’
[later she told me she came back from a trip to Venice that evening, tired as fuck and her asking for approval is good. Notice her first use of a questionmark]
Her (Sun 1:04am)
‘Do you have facebook’
[A bit of chase from her side – thinking about me so late on a Sat/Sun night]
Me (Sun 4:21am)
‘therrathars waaanttrdtogoo’
‘to [other city] and then wwee phinished at Mountee Carrlo.. draaanck dhoo much :))’
‘too’
[actually I was there alone and tired from housekeeping, went to bed very early and subsequently woke up early, at 4:15am. My idea was to pretend having not only had a nice evening gotten drunk with my friends but that “they” wanted to go to somewhere else and we ended up 1hour drive in Monte Carlo, most Top Guy place at the coast. Which is an village actually where you may have a hard time finding lots of bars open at 3am…]
Her (Sun 11:21am)
‘Good morning ?’
[…and it worked out. I was blown away, didn’t expect THAT!]
Me (12:07pm)
‘Ay… this head…’
‘You are not the only one that received rubbish :)’
Her (12:08pm)
‘Hahaha everything goes away’
‘In what sense’
Me (12;09pm)
‘My friends from Germany wanted to go to Monte Carlo instead of [other city nearby known for good bars] which I suggested’
‘Then too much booze :-/‘
‘Twas better you weren’t there…’
Her (12:09pm)
‘Better then.. what are you doing’
[The detailed explanation was too much, not primarily because of unveiling the fake story but too long, too much investment.
Better you weren’t there was intended as a tease that she’s too young/boring…]
Me (12:10pm)
‘…given that you’re a good girl that stays at home on Sat evening to iron’
‘;-p’
[…which I then deliver expressis verbis]
Her (12:11pm)
‘But please I was in Venice and had just gotten home yesterday morning and was tired to death’
‘But you have facebook?’
[She justifying, that’s good.
I’d set up a fb page exactly for those occasions, have around 25 friends mostly younG FSU girls but didn’t update in months. I considered saying I don’t do fb—probably the better choice. On the other hand, I read it as need for comfort. Which I could have provided via text, too but didn’t. At the contrary, now this is so clear]
Me (12:14/15pm)
‘ but I don’t use it any more and ljttle before’
‘so you are not a good girl that irons and cooks’
Her (12:17pm)
‘This I’m doing, too, certainly ??’
‘How much time do you stay here’
(12:20) ‘But how old are you Philander’
[That tease worked out. I guess I should have built on her second, logistical question. Now I don’t know why I didn’t. Insecurity, and the age question didn’t lower that. I’m 49.5]
Me (12:20 crossing messages)
‘I’ll have 5 more cappuccinos then I’ll return to Milan (work tomorrow)’
Her (12:20)
‘Ah I see what is your work?’
[Now I read this as need of rapport, attraction was already built…]
Me (12:21)
‘you are too young for me ;)’
[…when she offers the open door I continue teasing… to get my wall…]
Her (12:21)
‘Yes, whatever, age is only a number what’s yours’
[…but she still offers her pussy, telling me that she doesn’t mind or even fancies an older guy. Top Guy, preferredly]
Me (1:21pm)
‘50’
‘but I have a good plastic surgeon ;-D’
‘But you, you’re 16? You pose so many questions like a little girl… :o]’
[First time I try this joke over text but here it is wrong twice: she already told me age is not a problem and I make it one; cocky smile doesn’t work over text.
And then a third message in a row with complete new thread and, even worse, another, badly packaged tease. While writing I don’t know why I did all this and of course she gets pissed…]
Her (1:28pm)
‘25 years I’m nt posing questions like a little girl if you dont like and you mind don’t write any more’
[…and shuts down.]
Me (3:40pm)
‘? I like you’re hot blooded ;) …Moroccan, I recall correctly?
[This last tease can’t reverse it. I knew I screwed it up and would have liked to heal it but remembered the golden rule « never apologize » even if you actually did a mistake]
Her (4:07pm)
‘Yes right..’
[Attraction dying]
Me (5:13pm)
‘Venice was romantic?’
Her (blocked me)
[The last rearing up, very last, desperate, unappropriate trial, clueless why it went down this road—now it’s clear. Thanks, Yohami]
Main problem is you’re going for lighthearted rapport at all times.
Then you’re ignoring the very big bold openings: she reacted extremely well when you skipped the bs and asked her for a date. She reacted every strongly when you tell her you were drunk with friends (she’s a party girl). And you ignored her attempts at building trust with the age / facebook / work questions (she’s asking for your position on the ladder: she wants to fuck you)
Then you tell her you like her when she just set a wall (that’s what got you blocked).
I’ll do a breakdown later when I have time
Ok. So I wanted to train the not doing a beta ramp, punishing walls, etc on this girl.
This is the first part of the text which is before I tried to practice on her some stuff:
Me: I enjoyed it.
Her: I am glad :) :)
Me (Next day): I know I was in your dreams ;)
Her: To be honest, no, coz I already have a lover [Kind of sad emoji] but you are a nice guy, it was a very positive conversation.
Me (After some hours): Nice. It makes our secret meetings more exciting.
Me: Like spies ;) [In the meeting, I teased her for looking like a spy, so nice call-back humor]
Her: Hahahahah
And here is from today. I continued texting just to practice more:
Me: Hey
Her: Yo
Me: when
Her: I’m busy
Her: And you don’t want to be just friends
Her: So
Her: [Giving up emoji]
Me: How is your health test results? I think that’s the reason [I am implying here she has an STD that’s why she doesn’t want to fuck me lol, but slightly only]
Her: Which results? I feel good. Working.
Me: we had electric chemistry. even both wearing coats, our attraction was hot. warm in -13
Me: I liked it
Her: Thanks but my dad works in Switzerland
Me: lol
Her: The reason is I have a guy already
Her: I’m honest with him
Me: A fuck buddy or a by?
Me: bf
Her: Now more like a bf. I don’t want to change things, I want to just be with him
Me: I have a cat. I am honest with him.
Her: [Photo of some muscular guy in underwear with oil all over his chest and abs, no face]
Her: He is better than a cat
Her: [Laughing hard emoji]
Me: Not impressed.
Her: I don’t care
Her: Totally in my taste
Her: [Hand emoji]
Me: lol
Me: When we met I felt you had some pain in your heart. It’s sad, that pain.
Her: That’s because I had a 24 hour shift at the hospital
Her: lol
Me: No. You really really like me but you think I’ll break your heart too much.
Me: Maybe I will. But always honest.
Her: Hahahahah
Her: I like my hot guy
Her: [Laughing hard emoji]
Me: Possible. You really like me as well. It is normal.
Her: Nope
Me: I don’t believe you.
Me: The chemistry we had is not normal.
Her: That’s your problem not mine.
Her: Goodbye
Me: Be nice.
[She blocked me]
——-
I know this interaction seems harsh and like she doesn’t like me, but in real life she really really did like me. I even went for the kiss and she was like no, no, yet she let me kiss her in the neck a little bit. So within 30 minutes from meeting this girl at the mall at 14h in the afternoon I was holding her in my arms and kissing her neck. She was also physically compliant, very.
Anyway, I got some practice in. Less beta ramp.
There was some weakness, like I was arguing with her about her wall etc, but I was just doing the best I came up with.
Simply, nope. :-D There’s nothing to dissect there, every line of yours is chasing for rapport, pushing against a wall, begging, arguing your way in. It’s bad.
Do yourself a favor and dissect it. Just like every inch of top guy does wonders, every inch of bottom guy sabotages the whole thing.
She did give you an opening and you’re not taking it. Can you see the opening she gave you? Can you point at every time she set a wall and you decide that’s what you’re going to smash against?
[She did give you an opening and you’re not taking it. Can you see the opening she gave you?]
I cannot see the opening. All I see is her being polite and walls.
Get red pilled dude.
“Me: The chemistry we had is not normal.
Her: That’s your problem not mine.”
FOR YOU the chemistry is not normal.
FOR HER this is COMMON AS FUCK. She is in abundance, you’re in scarcity. You want to argue your way into her pants by saying “Im scarce’. She says “I don’t value you” and you reply “But I do value YOU”. What the hell is this.
What is necessary to snap you out of it?
I can’t believe this shit.
:-D
[I can’t believe this shit.]
I can’t believe it either dude!
[What is necessary to snap you out of it?]
I don’t fucking know, there is something missing in my red pill or Top Guy knowledge because what I do seems Top Guy to me when I do it in the moment!
Well, with girls when they say they have a BF, I give up. So with this girl, I already gave up from one of the first messages last week when she told me she has a lover, and the rest of the text came of a place of “this won’t happen, I’m just doing it as an exercise”.
Still, a part of me and reality confirms this: If I don’t chase girls, I get no results.
I have 30 numbers I got in the last 3 weeks. I went on 5 dates. I tried not to text girls for 3 days, and my phone stayed silent, no texts back. So this is at some level telling me (1) I am not scarce, (2) If I do not chase, nothing happens.
Well, on a positive note, when I chase I lose the girls anyway. So that is good learning.
“Still, a part of me and reality confirms this: If I don’t chase girls, I get no results.”
And when you chase girls the result is you get blocked.
You know there’s plenty of things to do other than ‘chase’ right?
Non-chase doesn’t mean taking action, and taking action doesn’t mean ‘chase’
Chase is when you pursue when they are rejecting you.
Focus on that line bro.
What should you be doing instead of pursuing them when they reject you?
[What should you be doing instead of pursuing them when they reject you?]
Punish?
Punish is when you do when they reject you. But we’re still talking about resistance.
Is resistance what you should be focusing on?
Ok, you asked:
[What should you be doing instead of pursuing them when they reject you?]
Well, if I arouse her, won’t that be rewarding rejection?
Still, Yohami, I literally cannot see any opportunity to arouse that girl in that interaction.
In real life she showed me photos of her naked because she is an erotic photo model and told me she is a kinky girl and wants to find a girl and fuck his brains out once a week.
Then after the “chemistry” moment and after I kissed her neck and she liked it, she said we should be friends, that I am dangerous, I cannot be calm around her.
That might be the reason she came up with this whole “lover/bf” she has. But dude, if I do not escalate, then I am friendzoning myself.
Maybe a guy who got to be kissing her neck in public in the middle of the day after 30 minutes of meeting her was too much for her.
Fuck it, I honestly feel sad.
My favorite girl from all the interactions ignored me after our insta date, and I remember during the date she told me “Too many compliments for one day”. But my compliments were honest, she was so bubbly and cute and has a great body and her hair looked so nice and she was so feminine and girly. Should I just ignore that shit and not freely express myself?
Something is wrong. Bottom Guy inside me is masquerading as Top Guy so that I keep him alive. I need to let him die and get wise to his tricks.
“Then after the “chemistry” moment and after I kissed her neck and she liked it, she said we should be friends ”
There it is then. You had her neck, she got turned on, she gave you a small verbal tramp “just friends” and you decided to dedicate all your energy to smash against that wall.
Instead of focusing on her neck more.
Arousal vs Resistance.
Bottom guy goes for resistance every fucking time.
—————————-
And too much compliments on a date? sure, don’t do that.
“not freely express myself?”
No one gives a fuck about you.
If girls gave a fuck about you, you wouldn’t need to learn Game, would you.
You could just ‘freely express yourself’.
But this is not about freely expressing yourself.
Game is about emulating, and hopefully becoming, the kind of man women find attractive.
If I go out with a hot chick Im not going to give her any compliment unless there’s something to reward, or something really stands out. And Im going to be paying attention to what she reacts to and where her compliance is.
The fact that you give “a lot of compliments” shows you’re trying to sweeten your way into her by bombarding her with edulcorants and being really nice.
Guess what: that’s bottom guy behavior.
Guess something else: That’s not who you are.
That’s just a game.
[You could just ‘freely express yourself’.
But this is not about freely expressing yourself.
Game is about emulating, and hopefully becoming, the kind of man women find attractive.]
I read a quote from Icy Seducer that I think Yohami, you would appreciate the truth of very much:
“This seduction thing, if you want to call it that, is something you figure out. It isn’t something you just know. It isn’t like walking, where you just end up able to do it without really knowing how. No. Dating mastery is something that is highly conscious. The problem is, only a few men, known as naturals, take the time to really think about it deeply over a long period of time. The rest of the men are hopeless and don’t know why. They see those men who’ve thought about it, and think they’re just like that naturally. They’re referred to as naturals, but they are not naturals. They thought about it. They’re actually deliberate and artificial if anything. The real naturals are the men who are just themselves and haven’t thought about it, nor become highly artificial, nor deliberated. But we don’t call these men naturals even though they are very natural. We call them losers, unlovable, and hopeless. Before pick up became mainstream, conscious men for the most part didn’t teach not-so-conscious men. “
No Icy has it wrong, and is operating from bottom frame –
The real naturals are the guys who were gifted by nature and circumstances and are born with the top-frame as a default, in an environment that is compatible with top frame, and with body / mind qualities that make them competent to operate there. They are the natural ‘winners’ that stand out even when they are very young.
Go back in your memories and think about the kids who were popular with the girls. How back can you go? do you remember any time where there wasn’t a kid who was popular with all the girls?
That’s the ‘natural’
They didn’t become the natural because they had to think about it and think stuff etc – they incarnated the top-frame since the beginning, then operating from there got in a feedback loop that only made them solidify there more. For them they don’t understand what’s the problem with all the other bottom guys, they look down to them as ‘losers’.
Anything about requiring to ‘work’ to become a natural means your starting point is at the bottom.
Which is fine: that’s where most men start.
Also if you start at the top, and circumstances change and you find yourself at the bottom, chances are you get screwed because not having all the cards on your favor is a new thing to you and likely you’ll receive major ego injuries in the process. Think of most super pretty girls once they hit the wall.
———-
I kept track of some of the popular guys and I still feel great that they got stuck and I surpassed them. They had all the shit on their favor and blew it, while I had all the odds against me and I over-performed them with pure work, sacrifice and many iterations of figuring it out. So I bottom-guyed my way to the top, while they thought they could ride the tide forever and eventually lost ‘it’ while clueless of how to get it back.
Still, these guys are the naturals.
Yohami, come up with you book fast, please ;)
I think 2018 will be the year of zero lays for me. Well, I am performing above average because I have “some” Top Guy in me, but really I only started seriously learning about game a month ago. So I am a newbie. I just started from a socially aware place so I am not an awkward little nerd who is a weirdo.
When I am in the metro, for example, just by looking at girls I can tell who is the girl who wants to be talked to and who doesn’t. I think that is what they view as Top Guy which makes the interaction go so well and the attraction spike through the roof: It shows I know how women look when they are open, so to girls they think “maybe this is a Top Guy who is used to women giving him openings so he can see them”, and so I am categorized as Top Guy before I fuck shit up.
I can see openings in women before I talk to them. I don’t see them in text and I don’t see them in dates because I am too much inside the activity to be as aware as I need to be. I think such awareness on dates will come with time.
Ok, I’ll do my own analysis because I thought I did better, so you could correct my thinking Yohami:
[Me: Hey]
Low investment, Top Guy
[Her: Yo]
Low investment on her part, so I punished by not giving more investment in return.
[Me: when]
No punctuation, no extra words, I don’t care, Top Guy.
[Her: I’m busy
Her: And you don’t want to be just friends
Her: So]
Walls: She is busy. And she only wants to be friends.
[Me: How is your health test results? I think that’s the reason]
Top Guy: the reason cannot be she does not like me. It must be something else. Maybe an STD, she is damaged goods. Punishment.
[Her: Which results? I feel good. Working.]
Ignored it but it did affect her emotionally. The “busy” wall again, she is working.
[Me: we had electric chemistry. even both wearing coats, our attraction was hot. warm in -13
Me: I liked it]
I judged our interaction. Being a judge = Top Guy. Plus it is true, it was freezing cold, both wearing coats but when I was kissing her neck it felt like we were both sweating. It also showed me she is not getting fucked or at least not getting fucked well because I am sure i made her wet very easily. I am just sure of this.
[Her: Thanks but my dad works in Switzerland]
This was random.
[Me: lol]
I made fun of what she says. I don’t care. Top Guy.
[Her: The reason is I have a guy already
Her: I’m honest with him]
Another wall. So she is busy. She just wants to be friends. And she has a guy.
[Me: A fuck buddy or a by?
Me: bf]
I am not validating myself, just “inquiring logistics” here.
[Her: Now more like a bf. I don’t want to change things, I want to just be with him]
Wall.
[Me: I have a cat. I am honest with him.]
I don’t care. Top Guy. Her having a BF is like me having a cat. Doesn’t mean much.
[Her: [Photo of some muscular guy in underwear with oil all over his chest and abs, no face]
Her: He is better than a cat
Her: [Laughing hard emoji]]
She is trying to make me react by showing a photo of a hot guy. Pinging for Top Guy or Bottom Guy.
[Me: Not impressed.]
This is the truth. I believe most men are not Top Guy. A Top Guy even if he is not muscular can offer this girl feelings that a sexy muscular guy could never offer. There is no competition.
[Her: I don’t care
Her: Totally in my taste
Her: [Hand emoji]]
Now we are arguing the wall, I am losing here, banging against the wall, fuck, fuck, fuck, what do I do?!?!
[Me: lol]
Fuck it, I show disrespect to her wall. Not even worth commenting on. Top Guy.
[Me: When we met I felt you had some pain in your heart. It’s sad, that pain.]
I am a Top Guy. It is not possible for girls not to like me, that cannot be in my reality. The reason she doesn’t want to suck my cock then must be she is emotionally damaged. This is punishing her too.
[Her: That’s because I had a 24 hour shift at the hospital
Her: lol]
Her reframing it: It is not pain in my heart, it is because I was tired. So she is telling me I am not a Top Guy, it is normal she doesn’t like me, and any pain is not caused by me, I am not that important.
[Me: No. You really really like me but you think I’ll break your heart too much.
Me: Maybe I will. But always honest.]
Setting the player frame, the heart breaker. Not boyfriend. Breaking rapport a bit with that. Top Guy because can afford to tell her I will break her heart and not worry about losing her because of that.
pHer: Hahahahah
Her: I like my hot guy
Her: [Laughing hard emoji]]
I affected her emotionally. It is better than not affecting her emotionally.
[Me: Possible. You really like me as well. It is normal.]
Still not believing she might not like me. Top Guy used to all girls liking me.
[Her: Nope]
Short low investment answer. You are not Top Guy.
[Me: I don’t believe you.
Me: The chemistry we had is not normal.]
This is true. This is what I believe. When I met this girl, I was Top Guy to her. This was not a technique or some such, the chemistry we had was off the charts.
[Her: That’s your problem not mine.
Her: Goodbye]
You are Bottom Guy. Go fuck yourself, I won’t deal with you anymore.
[Me: Be nice.]
Top Guy. I am telling her what to do. And I do not accept people to not be nice to me.
[She blocked me]
She probably does have a guy she fucks. Fuck it, the world is filled with women.
Yesterday, I had two dates one after the other. The first date was with the Brazilian girl but it got fucked up for some reason I projected a BF vibe and she was like I don’t want a relationship, I was like you’re here for 2 more days, wtf? How will we have a relationship? I think you’re sexy. Anyway, lost the girl. And on my way to the date with the virgin girl I saw a girl in a cute ski outfit on the metro and I got her number. So something is right and is working for me, then things get fucked up. But hey, great experience, and it’s all part of my growth. I lose the Brazilian girl, the Ski girl ignored my text, and all I have is the virgin girl who views me as a safe guy.
But every day is a new adventure. Every day I grow more. Today, I’ll meet more hoes daygaming and things will be a bit better each time until things click.
Every time you think you’re ‘top guy’ there you’re being ‘bottom guy’ to the core. Here’s what to look at:
– Are you dealing with resistance?
or
– Are you arousing her?
What do you think you’re doing all that interaction. Did you find what turns her on and you’re rubbing it?
Or are you focused on the reasons why you can’t get in?
You’re trying to ‘top guy’ the wall.
Did you even bother to look at where are the doors?
What is the opportunity she IS GIVING YOU?
[What is the opportunity she IS GIVING YOU?]
I honestly see no opportunity that she gave me. Since I did not see any door, the only thing that comes to mind is smashing the walls.
And you are right, I was mostly dealing with resistance. Now I understand how what I viewed as a Top Guy was Bottom Guy.
I just have no idea how I could have aroused her in that conversation. I honestly only see walls.
Ok open your fucking eyes here. Wide.
:-D
The opening is to go out with her as ‘just friends’
You fucked this up before, something you did before in the date or text and you fucked it up by doing some shit about relationships so she went with ‘just friends’ and you decided it was a good idea to focus on that and make her say verbally that you were ‘more than friends’, which is bad for all the reasons imaginable – it’s putting her on the spot, it’s forcing her to switch you between bottom / top NOW, it’s pushing forward before the pace, it’s showing that you value her more than she values you, it’s showing that you are scarce, and shows you have no fucking idea of what you’re doing. So you forced that situation, and you got the ‘we are only friends’
But.
When you aroused her on the date, and kisses her neck, and you had chemistry –
Were you in a relationship?
No? were you in a monogamy, no?
But you were getting physical?
As friends, you say?
—————
So you created that wall for yourself, and now you’ve been smashing your head against it like a handicapped cat. All your doing.
This girl with a supposedly hot boyfriend (probably fake) will go in a date with a guy she doesn’t know and get turned on to the point he kisses her neck and she’s all hot about it.
WAKE THE FUCK UP
All you have to do is take her our again and bang her.
THAT IS ALL
You don’t need to talk about relationship, you don’t need to make her commit in words about your status with her, you don’t need to make her acknowledge that she likes you, you don’t need any of this crap.
The walls are not your problem.
So if you don’t fuck it up you never get to the state you got, but here’s how to escape it:
——————–
——————–
Her: And you don’t want to be just friends, so
Me: We can be friends, you’re like my little sister
———————
——————–
The problem with the situation above is that she’s giving you that line as a specific wall to push you away because you’re pushing like a beggar to get in.
So the situation has to be addressed much earlier, and replace whatever you did to create this stuff.
So when the situation happens and she says
Her: We’re going to be only friends
You reply
Me: Yep, the best friends ( and kiss her on the neck)
Me: Yep, like brother and sister
Me: Hey you’ve got a boyfriend, we shouldn’t be doing this (kiss her)
This is the stuff I’d say back in the day (based on some tip from DeAngelo)
———————
———————
Me: I already have 7 girlfriends. Even if you really tried you could only be number 8
———————
———————
But what are you doing all the time? looking for her resistance points and pushing there. You’re even trying to interrogate her about possible walls like her STD status. Clueless man.
Remove all that bs.
Now you make me wish she didn’t block me :D
Ok, I think this comes from a deep assumption differences we have:
I have been on dates where nothing happens. So when a girl tells me we can just be friends, I remember all the “let’s just be friends” experiences from high school and dates that lead to nowhere, and I think “this is going to be a total waste of time”, and so I try to confirm it is not just a friends date so I know I won’t be wasting your time.
You come from the belief that if I can see the girl likes me it doesn’t matter if we do out as friends, it is ON, and all I do is keep doing what I see turns her on and let her say whatever she wants, it doesn’t matter.
I think it also comes down to what the black Tim talks about: when girls are in a logical space, they give resistance. When they are in an emotional space, they are in the moment and can flow with it.
So I am used to girls being in the logical space. And rather than argue, if I know what arouses her, I just do that, she will be emotional, and then in the moment I can fuck her by doing those things even if before the date she was talking about being just friends etc.
Then, I have lost a lot of girls because I want them to confirm we are not just friends before the date because I come from the assumption that I will waste my time with this shit.
And deeper still, I need to eliminate whatever is making girls think of relationships or just friends, and I better become much more of a true fucking player in every aspect so that relationship is not even something that comes to her mind.
“when girls are in a logical space, they give resistance”
This is still bottom frame, sorry fuckboy tim.
If she thinks you’re top guy she’ll be using her logical space to plan ahead how she’s going to lure you into a relationship, she’s not going to be using it for creating resistance.
But when she’s screening you, she’ll be throwing shit at you from both her emotional and logical sides.
When you arouse her you tune to her ‘positive’ and aroused emotional side, that’s where sex happens.
But you can’t frame that her ‘logical space gives you resistance’ because that means that LOGICALLY you get rejected when a girl is on her right mind.
Do you see it.
This bottom frame shit is so pervasive. It’s fucking everyone up.
Ok, to be fair to fuckboy Tim, this is exactly what he said:
https://youtu.be/HcRLtsnluHM?t=29m53s
“she was talking about being just friends etc.”
That is just a shit test, aka, that’s a trap to stop bottom guy from getting further.
Everything she does is a game to make you CHOOSE if you’re bottom or top guy.
And you are CHOOSING the bottom route.
You’re DECIDING to push against resistance.
As opposed to DECIDING to AROUSE her.
You’re going for the walls and not the doors, you’re not taking the opportunities but the obstacles.
This is all your doing. She’s just doing her part. She has to screen out the non-worthy males.
You’re deciding what kind of man you are.
Yohami, the best resource on how to write a book fast is this:
HOW TO WRITE A BOOK ON ANYTHING IN 14 DAYS OR LESS – GUARANTEED
https://epdf.tips/how-to-write-a-book-on-anything-in-14-days-or-less-guaranteed.html
It is an older book, it is available free now, it used to be paid but the author retired from info-marketing and made it available free.
Just download it, and it will show you the shortest path to get your knowledge into a book.
As you see, Bottom Guy frame is so pervasive that your book is desperately needed by the tribe of men.
You don’t even have to read that whole book, here is the outline:
* Introduction – 2
* Ch 1 – Why you MUST write your book in the shortest possible time [and create the greatest marketing tool you’ll ever produce!] ………. 3
* Ch 2 – The 20 Great Myths and Mistakes Most Professionals, Consultants and Writers Make [When They Begin Their Book, How You Can Avoid Them and why this could be the most liberating chapter you ever read in your life!] ………. 14
* Ch 3 – Why your attitude must change, [how to do it and what you’ll get when you do.] ………. 26
* Ch 4 – How to select, develop or create the magic [topic your readers, clients or prospects simply can’t resist] ………. 32
* Ch 5 – Creating and establishing your unique place in your industry ………. 38
* Ch 6 – Mastering the strategy for writing your book in just 14 days or less [Here are all the details you’ll need to make it happen faster than you ever thought possible…] ………. 44
* Ch 7 – The five steps to blueprinting your book, start to finish, in a matter of hours [The key to knowing what will be on every page of your book… before you even begin!!] ………. 56
* Ch 8 – Creating Your Book Blueprint [This is it. This is the chapter you’ve been waiting for. This is the oh-so-simple concept that has launched the writing careers of thousands… and now you, too!] ………. 64
* Ch 9 – How to Write A Best-selling Fiction or Non-fiction Book [(or, how to buy a best-selling plot for 25 cents!)] ………. 76
* Ch 10 – The fastest method of researching on the planet [(it has nothing to do with the internet!)] ………. 85
* Ch 11 – Perfecting what you’ve written ………. 94
* Ch 12 – Creating Mood with a Single Word [Change from a creep cemetery to a brilliant picnic with a single word] ………. 102
* Ch 13 – Writing your own life story [TWELVE ELEMENTAL TRUTHS OF NON-FICTION WRITING] ………. 112
* Ch 14 – Frankenstein’s magical laboratory of character creation [CHARACTER BUILDING] ………. 118
* Ch 15 – Creating the perfect proposal [Now that it’s written, what do you do with it?] ………. 129
* Ch 16 – Getting publicity ………. 133
* Ch 17 – Your Life Story [This is the one book that everyone should write, but virtually no one does!] ………. 143
* Appendix – ATTRACTING AN AGENT TO YOUR FINISHED WORK ………. 146
* Bonus – Agents List ………. 152
Ok, so what I got from this discussion Yohami is: as long as I can see that I can arouse the girl in some way, any wall she puts out I ignore, it’s none of my business.
All I care about is arousing her in the ways I discovered and swinging my dick to discover more ways that I double down on. She can tell me I am like her brother or not her type or just friends or she is a lesbian, that is none of my business as long as I have found at least one thing that arouses her, it is ON.
“Ok, so what I got from this discussion Yohami is: as long as I can see that I can arouse the girl in some way, any wall she puts out I ignore, it’s none of my business.
All I care about is arousing her in the ways I discovered and swinging my dick to discover more ways that I double down on. She can tell me I am like her brother or not her type or just friends or she is a lesbian, that is none of my business as long as I have found at least one thing that arouses her, it is ON.”
good summary.
i like yohami’s concept of “don’t bang against walls”, instead look for the doors.
i think we need to talk more about ways of swinging our dicks.
Yes, because without finding out how to swing our dicks properly, we’d see limited opportunities for arousal and just walls all around.
Start by cutting off all bottom frame behavior
[…] YOHAMI [link] […]
also, what’s up with NASH??
is he back from the holy land?
He’s too busy slayin’
[…] posted an excellent video on nash’s blog. a great reminder of what hot chicks […]
[…] posted another great […]
Yohami, what is your opinion on plowing?
Because there is a PUA belief that girls need time to know you are a cool guy. So if you talk to her and she isn’t receptive and is saying “I’ve got to go”, you keep on talking more and eventually she’ll realize you are an awesome guy and will want to “give you her time”.
At the same time, it is said that girls do not really hear the words when you talk to them, they feel the vibe. Which is not something that changes really because you talked to her for 90 seconds rather than 10 seconds.
So, for us who Daygame, what do you think is the appropriate way?
Do we talk to a girl and if within 10-20 seconds she doesn’t “hook”, which means to me she does not see any Top Guy in the guy approaching, do we keep on talking and hoping she will eventually see some Top Guy there (which might be related to swinging our dicks)?
Or really that would be a waste of time. If there is not a baseline of Top Guy that she feels at hello, it won’t happen later, so we shouldn’t waste our time plowing?
So this understanding would mean: if a girl views you as a Bottom Guy or Normal Guy can you with a bit of time change into a Top Guy into her mind? Or is that a lost cause?
I, of course understand that a girl can view some Top Guy in you, test to see if it is true, but if you fail then you are Bottom Guy.
So I understand a perception of a Top Guy can change to Bottom Guy fast. But if we open and she doesn’t view us as Top Guy and is like “I have to go” or “sorry, I have a BF”, do we believe the PUA assumption that it is a first response she gives to all men and we should plow to show her we are different? Or that “first response” is never going to happen to a Top Guy because just from the Hello she can feel something is different and will be interested enough to inquire more?
The answer can help us a lot because it will either save us time because we will say bye bye fast to girls who don’t want to talk to us right away, or we know that such girls can be changed into Yes girls and so will invest more time rather than eject knowing we can turn them around.
Give me a few examples of ‘plow’, Im not getting what it means. Is it about talking to a girl who’s not very interested YET but is interacting with you? or talking to a girl who is not interested and going AWAY? very different things
I see a lot of guys ‘bombarding the girls with attention and messages and interest’ when the girl is replying with monosylabes – that’s what I’ve understood as plow so far and it’s bottom guy to the core
Ok, this is what I mean with plowing. Because even following the daygame model, we are supposed to stop the girl totally, but she did not stop for Nick so he walked with her. And she showed just normal interest, which we call social hooking, but not sexual hooking, so she did not seem to “fancy him”. Plus, she is somewhat leading the walk, and not him. And he got the number but often in such interactions girls will ignore any texts. But RARELY a girl will become interested maybe after a week or so.
So how do we judge when it is an interaction where the girl is not interested YET? And when it is simply her being polite? I had girls tell me after a similar interaction where she does not give her full attention “Oh I have a Boyfriend” or after talking for a while like that not give her number.
Here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F325rACfHew
He explains here that he now always asks himself: “Does the girl fancy me?”, which means the assumption that you cannot make a girl interested, the interest is either there or is not, and you only work with it if it is there to make it stronger. But if a girl is behaving like the girl from the video above and does not give you an opportunity to stop her and is the one who is somewhat telling you “take it or leave it, I don’t care”, then she is not interested.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFO1Ukqs6ao
So then we can turn girls who are not interested YET into interested girls? And is there a way to know the difference, or all girls can become interested if they talk to you at all?
I respect the guy – but I can’t respect that Game.
Look – that girl was giggling in 2 points: when he said ‘drunk and dancing’ and when he finally ask her for her contact. After he had touched these 2 points, she was turning DTF rapidly and said she was coming back from school (which means she’s free), and K could have gone for an insta-date and fucked her right then. Instead he ran away with the phone like it was a trophy.
Because of the things he did right, he did arouse her some, there’s a game there, a %, he can flip her.
But because the whole fucking approach came from very, very, deep, rooted BOTTOM FUCKING FRAME (to the point I could barely watch that thing) our friend K is stacking the odds against him.
She didn’t need all that crap.
The fact that she’s even open to banging him means he could have just cleaned the table and commanded her to stop, instead of beg her to stop; could have said “hey, you’re pretty, what’s your name” instead all the bullshit about her style, betty bop, singing on her room, costumes, etc, the ‘stacking’ where bottom guy is trying to fill the gap in value.
That ‘stacking’ or plowing would turn into ‘swinging dick’ (they serve the same purpose, which is to find her arousal spots) if he was coming from a healthier frame.
Then the diagram on the board is a ladder for Bottom Guy.
Not needed.
At all.
Take the 3 things that worked in that video, and do these
– Hey, you’re pretty, who are you?
– You look like one of these trouble russian girls, all drink and dance ;-) that’s my type (she calls you a jerk, punches you on the arm)
– Ok let’s hang out, what’s your number?
– Im K by the way
Sucint the stuff that is actually arousing her and build around that.
Instead of building around your bottom guy.
To make things clearer, in this video, you can see the first girl is not “hooking” compared to the second girl. The first girl is talking and seems to have some fun but always also seems to want to leave. The PUA advice even Tyler is to plow, because persistence is sexy. While you see the other girl gave a strong IOI from the beginning.
So the question is if we daygame and meet a girl who behaves like the first one, do we keep trying or cut it short fast? Because what we learn is to stay as long as possible, saying “one more thing” or “just one minute, one minute”.
But the second girl, that is the type of girl that makes it easy to talk to us.
So really, the question is: is there a benefit to staying and talking more to a girl who reacts like the first one here, or really she won’t change, she doesn’t see you as Top Guy and it is useless to bother, better go find a girl who is interested like the second girl.
So you see she is not telling the guy to fuck off, the first girl, and she is not responding with monosyllables. PUAs would say: “you didn’t build enough attraction, build more attraction”. But really? Shouldn’t we just stay a few seconds, see she is not interested and leave? Or can we make her interested?
Notice also how the second girl tells the guy “It’s your lucky day.”
Normally, I would be like “No, it isn’t” but that would be smashing against walls. So just ignore it. But it will irritate me to think now she imagines I accept it is my lucky day to have coffee with her.
This guy is better but still bad. Note how he’s ‘floating’ in front of her waiting for her to take the lead. He even emulates the body movements from the girls: he’s reacting to them. He’s got a ‘guy doing telemarketing’ vibe, not grounded.
Now, check the points where the girls giggle and start showing compliance: every time he’s direct. He tells one she’s pretty and she melts some, but the guy’s face also changes, he turns more masculine – that’s the feedback loop. He went direct, she showed compliance, he channeled top guy a little – then he reverts to flaccid dick. These ‘inches’ of top guy go a long way.
So here it’s not “the importance of being persistent” – pay attention to what works, then do that. This guy can take notes that when he tells a girl she’s pretty, they melt. So open with that. Then find what else melts them, and do that. Then see how you feel, and become that person who always feels that way, and get in the loop. After that he’ll be able to just walk around and have the girls look at him expecting that he opens them, because they want to be part of the loop as well.
Yohami, is arousal what the Tyler call increasing a girl’s buying temperature?
And what do you think about this Yohami from a Top Guy frame?
https://youtu.be/mTvMYmnK9_o?t=1m7s
He is talking about top guy frame, yes. The “who”, not the “what”.
“the guy with authority says it and then forgets it” = “let her go” = “authority and no chase” This guy got it.
“He didn’t have to game you, NPL you, entertain you – he just told you what to do and you did it. Why? because his position is higher”
Yes – arousal, buying temperature, compliance, hotter vs colder, closer vs farther, wanting more vs wanting less, all the same.
Ok, those I get, but to make sure:
Increased compliance in a woman = the pussy is getting wetter?
So compliance is a display of sexually being turned on?
YES
Yohami, you will really like this:
https://youtu.be/VjFpLPOt4gc?t=1m20s
He gets it.
Blue Valentine
Just an observation from listening to your experiences. You do well in the initial interaction, then fuck up whether in a I-date or text interaction.
Now I’m a fuckin noob to game. So I could have this all wrong. If I do, Im sure Yohami, Nash or Riv (or whoever) will jump in and tell us so.
I get the feeling you are a good looking cat.
This is whats getting you these great first interactions (when the chicks pupils go nuts etc), even with chicks who seem “unavailable”. Youre probably opening well, good eye contact, being masculine, top guy vibe, all that because it’s a little bit “canned” so to speak.
Youre having some some great opportunities but fucking them up every time. This is very common for guys with bad game. Like me.
But what I also see.. After the initial success, then.. you are TRYING TOO MUCH. You’re coming from a place of scarcity and it seems to be ingrained in you.
Your text interactions, I-dates etc, you seem to be saying too much (investing) and fucking it up. These chicks are obviously into you but then you go to bottom guy, ALWAYS. Even after you seem to be getting it when conversing with Yohami. You come back with more examples of trying too much/being bottom guy.
Like Yohami says. You need to get into top guy mindset. Now I’m a noob but I’m starting to understand what this is.
Now.. getting laid certainly helps with the mindset. You need to BANG yourself out of the bottom frame.
So.. I’m thinking what might help you (now I might get hammered for saying this).
Approach some “less hot chicks”, of lower value to begin with. Girls you’d still fuck, but care less about, and thus – try less (less investment). Then you might find you act a little more top guy. You’ll get some lays and you’ll naturally feel more top guy and things will change dramatically from there…
“Slay the dragon to get the princess”
Like Yohami said “you have potential”.
You just need some momentum to get going to you’re potential.
Get some easy lays… Then you’ll be taking the princess in no time.
good stuff, Factory.
And @BlueValentine/all of us: what I got out of all of Yohami‘s teaching is that all of us‘ former bad experiences with ‚rejections‘ and struggle to get the girl is unnecessary. Getting the girl can be very easy and it is US BOTTOM GUY FRAMED MALES who make it hard.
The girls show us and so often even verbally TELL us what to do because they want the dance to end in bed fucking her as bad as we do.
But WE ARE NOT LISTENING—to her!
We are listening to OUR OWN STORIES about how women are (bad, arrogant, rejecting, too hot, …) and how we are not good enough (in all variants: rich, tall, good looking, …) for them and then apply our male engineering mind to solve the problem… by hard work and logic. That built civilization, the world, but doesn‘t get us laid.
I myself hated women in my twenties. Hate is the flip side of the love medal, though. I was utterly frustrated and upsat that the girls didn‘t choose me super nice guy, with good looks and making her presents etc.
Quite often I found out (years later) that even many of those girls did like me and waited for me to just fucking ask her out for a coffee or ice cream.
But I didn‘t listen. So it was ALL MY FAULT, MY RESPONSIBILITY.
So when it finally clicked what Yohami is saying all the time, there was a huge peace of mind. Yes, want sex even more than we do, but they also want us to seduce them and I would even say if one has some decent qualities (grooming, gym, humour), you even can get away with a lot of still bottom guy stuff (cf. my texting with Nadina: she even gave me three of four chances to try again), as it is not so easy to incorporate Top Guy behaviour at once. However, there is no struggle, no fight (once you got the first IOI). Just this dance where she helps as much as she can so that you can lead her in the right way, make the dance an elegant flow. We just need to fucking listen and observe her signals. There is no such thing as rejection neither, if she gave you a minimum IOI which could be just not walking away but giving your 20 seconds of attention. There is us perceiving the opening offered OR not getting it and when the latter happens more than her attraction and patience in that moment allows for, she’ll walk away.
And even the hottest chicks sometimes invite you several times to make her the gift to act as a Top Guy so that she can feel good about you and embracing your dick. From the outside (and in the same still too Bottom position), it is so clear that your erotic model girl would have liked YOU to be the oily guy to fuck her hard. You just needed to make her the gift to double down on the just friends thing which I read as the Plausible Deniability she just needed to not feel as a slut, given you just knew each other for an hour or so. you would have been that friend who – what a surprise – was nice company but somehow lead her to the sex (‘it just happened, I don’t know how, I felt I knew him so well already, …).
And if she’s really not interested, walk away. But NEVER work hard, chase, just take the openings offered. I also get now why Yohami is opposed to Daygame – you start the interaction with a chase. Running after her on the street and stopping her. But Fuckboy Tim shows how that can be done, too (althoogh he talks way to fast, I believe, Top Guy talks slow and deep, doesn’t he?). And maybe we can tweak and do stationary game in shops / cafés, once we have the mindest internalized.
Yohami, you’re doing a great community service here!!! Not only to your ex-fellow bottom guys or in transition but also to all the women in the world! What if we focused on improving our listening skills and accepting our role to lead at all times—happy, well fucked women that experience intense pleasure during the whole dance. And there wouldn’t be a manosphere at all, no need for it (ok, I might be a bit euphoric and too far fetched here, because to be Top Guy, you need a multiple of bottom guys, it’s all relative but there are also only few really hot feminine girls, so Nature has balanced this out already).
Sure, getting your stuff already is not easy for us and making it second nature will take even more time but overall it’s so much good new news. I started to go over all my texting and memories of girls to find the ways where I went into tussle instead of reading her opening and try to come up with the ideal answers.
Anyway. Thank you.
PS: BlueValentine, keep sarging and posting.
Yep. Im glad some of this stuff is clicking. Im surprised on how long the girls stick with it with the back and forth in frames, they give you so many opportunities! it’s crazy.
It also makes it harder to figure out since you don’t clearly see what happened if you do some bottom guy shit and they still want you. Was it because it or in spite of it?
—————
Fuckboy Tim talks too fast and needs better body language, grooming and what not. Because he’s looking like a homeless he’s doing a lot of self-deprecation stuff what won’t be needed once he takes care of himself. Also he allows the energy to go too low and misses some of the openings (see how the girls slow down their giggling as the interaction progresses) – but he’s like one year into it. Give him 5 years. Maybe 10 and he’ll be bigger than the whole RSD crew. And richer.
[you would have been that friend who – what a surprise – was nice company but somehow lead her to the sex (‘it just happened, I don’t know how, I felt I knew him so well already, …).]
The problem though is in my reality, when in my 20s, I got friendzoned by some girls and never fucked any one of them.
Yes, I am different now. But in my mind, I still think girls do not fuck their friends.
But yeah, it might be different because those girls gave IOIs, so not the same shit as girls from class in my early days or whatever.
It’s this belief that if I am friends with a girl or if I do not show sexual intent or escalation I will be friendzoned that is fucking me up.
But hey, since I am not getting laid anyway, any girl who will offer me friendship, I’ll take it, discover her arousal points, rub them and see what happens.
“any girl who will offer me friendship”
No No – roll back.
You kissed her neck, she said “just friends”. Reply:
Me: yeah, the best friends
And kiss her on the libs now
This is not you “taking her friendship”
This is you pushing the bullshit aside.
This is not you accepting her rules.
But you pushing aside the wall and taking the opening.
What is the opening?
That she’s being physical with you.
Don’t be a puppy following her around.
Ignore her bullshit. Her bullshit is not for you.
She’s not offering you friendship – at all, she’s not your friend. She’s just setting a trap. Don’t ‘take the trap’. Push it aside. Progress on the arousal stuff.
The “go out” is the opening part of the ‘go out as friends’ line, and ‘as friends’ is the bullshit.
Just go out, ignore the bullshit. Make fun of it. Tell her she’s like your little sister. Then make out.
I‘ll bet you could have fucked most of the girls in school, too. It is today and it was back then you‘re limiting yourself. It‘s completely within your power to switch that.
And don‘t do the mistake (I did for years) to take girls‘ stuff literally! They say things indirectly: the erotic model said ‚be friends‘ and meant ‚treat me so that I am not/don‘t feel as a slut‘ so meet her, arouse her, kino, etc. But do not TALK about it, just do. And see what happens.
I once learnt from Gambler/Richard La Ruina that you can sit besides a girl and talk boring fluff talk whileat the same time touching her sexually. I tried it out with a really hot work mate in a club: stroking her lower back even touching her thong while talking and looking to tthe crowd (nobody saw me touching her)—not only did she not object and did I get away, she later kissed me good bye, obviously aroused. I screwed it up later in several occasions, never laid her.
E. g.: she told me ‚you are a player‘. What did I hear? ‚I‘m not sure whether I want get fucked by you, pls. prove that yyou‘re a nice guy‘. Which I did and killed attraction.
What she actually said: ‚I‘m attracted, you SEEM to be a Top Guy (who has many options, which I find sexy) but prove me further, make me happy. by being one.‘ The prove would have been non-verbal, taking action, invite her out. I wouldn’t even say anymore this was a shit-test. because this sounds so hostile— it was more the timid offer of an opening, a gift! And I believe I should have made a joke, with low investment voice like ‚yeah, I‘ve a girl for every weekday but you know just ended the girl so this slot is free and I‘d like to spend time with you. Let‘s go to bar …, say 9pm.‘
Not that I do that all the time now but that‘s what I think would be the right direction.
Yohami has the final word ;)
[I once learnt from Gambler/Richard La Ruina that you can sit besides a girl and talk boring fluff talk while at the same time touching her sexually.]
We have a name for it in Daygame, Indirect-Direct Game. Nash does it too when it is not appropriate to be direct. Here is a podcast episode that explains more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y0AuaY4elM
Tim is the shit. Gold gold gold gold gold.
[Attraction is not about being an Alpha dude. Attraction comes from how much you can handle social and sexual tension.] – FuckBoy Tim
Then, I am Top Guy in real life. I am very comfortable with tension.
In texts or dates I do not handle tension. But I am also not being myself. I am doing what I was conditioned to do.
[Youre probably opening well, good eye contact, being masculine, top guy vibe, all that because it’s a little bit “canned” so to speak]
I am too new to be canned.
[I get the feeling you are a good looking cat.]
I am in a city where there are a ton of good looking men and women. It is a city popular for getting male and female models. I am above average, not a model level at all, but looks aren’t helping where I am because I do not have the level of looks that make me stand out. I am pleasant to look at, but not like many of the men walking around the large concentration areas I go to Daygame in.
I am not from Argentina, but I am sure Yohami knows how it would be a similar situation in Argentina: There are so many very good looking men that being above average in looks won’t be a factor that helps you.
Honestly, what I had is I believed deep down I was 40% Top Guy and improving. And I felt I was with my 40% way above the girl’s other options. That gave me balls of steel: I approached and hit on girls multiple times in front of their BF, and it is so ballsy and confident the guys just watch me hit on their girls with their mouths open, I hit on girls with their fathers, or with their mothers. Even twice I hit on a girl in a lesbian couple walking around holding hands. If I wanted a girl, I believed 100% she is for me, entitlement because I believed I had some Top Guy in me.
But then, for the last 3 days I stopped believing I had any Top Guy. I saw a huge mountain in front of me, I saw myself deep into Bottom Guy, so much so that when I approach now I do not chase but it is not coming from a place of abundance but from a place of giving up.
In some ways, finding out about Top Guy and Bottom Guy fucked me up. It’s like people got fucked up when Tyler informed them about State. Now I think: Yes, I talk to this girl but my Bottom Guy will fuck it up, so this is useless.
Anyways, I was honestly going to give up today. In the last 3 days, I did 38 approaches and got 0 numbers.
The only thing that helped me was this sentence here:
[PS: BlueValentine, keep sarging and posting.]
I then watched some motivational Youtube videos, and went out and did 18 approaches today (so in the last two days 10 a day, and today 18, total 38, zero numbers). Because, really, what’s the alternative? To give up and complain? Fuck that. But I also see it as useless.
The ONLY thing that works where I am, except fame or money, is Top Guy. If I am a Bottom Guy, and I do not have fame or money, then I am basically wasting my time, at least I felt that at some level.
But a nice thing happened today. I met an 18 years old very cute girl in the park. She was NOT attracted, there were zero signs of attraction, and she has a boyfriend, her high school sweetheart. I insta dated her only to notice how different it is to deal with a girl who has no attraction for me, with her pupils small and her always moving her body back whenever I moved closer to her than polite social distance.
I made myself proud today. I locked in, relaxed back on the park bench for 1h, and I let her do all the talking. All I did was judge what she was doing and tease sometimes. The teases did make her laugh in a compliant way, but then directly back to no attraction.
She was investing a fuck ton. I was laying back and listening and judging a bit here and there. And after 1h of talking, she told me I am so interesting, she said she never talks to strangers but I had positive energy, and she told me she is not normally talkative but with me the conversation is so interesting she talked so much.
I was like “wtf??” in my mind. I barely spoke to this girl. All I did is ask her things and judge what she says and tease but maybe I talked 5% of the time, and she thinks I am so interesting.
It’s good training for future dates (If I get any in the future, not sure. At 0 numbers after 38 approaches from before getting 4 numbers out of 10 approaches, my 40% Top Guy illusion is gone.)
At the end, I gave her my number. A girl who is not attracted AND has a boyfriend she loves, fuck this. If she texts me after so much investment then it is her chasing, and that would be a much better frame than me texting her.
I miss thinking I was a bit more Top Guy than average. I was so cool then, I did shit that takes real balls and that people cannot even imagine doing. Who else can say he can hit on multiple girls in front of their boyfriends and be so high status and confident that the boyfriend just lets me do it for 5-10 minutes with his face nervous? Who hits on a girl walking with her huge lumberjack looking dad who was much taller than me and be relaxed and give him a firm handshake and hit on is daughter in front of him? Who goes to the mall and hit on a girl in front of the security guard and not give a fuck?
But that was the past. I guess I need a number of years to be back to that level. It was an illusion of being somewhat of a Top Guy.
Now, I embrace the suck. It will suck big time, I won’t get much in terms of results since I am a Bottom Guy stranger approaching cute girls in the street, metro and mall, but fuck it, let the pain come. I will do my best not to give up.
[“any girl who will offer me friendship”
No No – roll back.]
The 18 years old girl today when she said “Let’s just be friends” I responded with something I remembered from you, Yohami. I said: “Yes. Best friends.”
That really spiked her emotions. It didn’t happen often that her emotions spiked though. But I also did not speak much, she was the one doing all of the talking.
Vin DiCarlo said something many years back that I remember now and makes sense to me: “The lamest thing coming out of a girl’s mouth is ten times more powerful than the coolest most interesting DHV story coming out of your mouth. ”
Or like Luke says: “Game is investment. It is getting the girl to invest in every possible way.”
During my first PUA residency (2013) which was the last for the company PUA Training as their head coach Vito retired from game, I asked him if he could summarize the essence of game in one sentence. It burned into my head but I couldn’t fully understand (or rather feel, based on own experience) its wisdom – until our discussion here:
“Minimum investment, maximum impact”
Me too Philander, I tested it today and couldn’t believe how well it worked.
In the beginning for a few minutes I talked about some things that I like in women, so I talked about Yoga, what she does to keep fit, whether she likes to read, and on the topic of books she started talking so I shut up and let her talk and every now and then judge what she is saying.
At multiple times she would run out of things to say and I just look at her and shut up and she will find another subject to talk about.
After 1h, I knew about her cats, her grandmother, her childhood memories at the beach, her dreams, where she wants to go on vacation in the summer, what kind of people she likes and dislikes, her favorite movies, why she chose what she studies, her views on society, etc, etc, etc. And I wasn’t even asking, all I did is look at her in the eyes, let any silences happen and she filled them all and judge by saying what I think about what she says and what kind of person it makes her seem to be.
I am sure if this girl had some attraction for me I would have fucked her after that 1h conversation. I barely talked and she told me how interesting and friendly and smart I am. And I barely talked, in my brain I was like “wtf, this girl knows nothing about me, all she did is talk about herself and I listened, and now she things I am so interesting and smart and friendly? This is nice.”
I think it’s the best date I ever had. I should do this often.
The thing I am getting the hang of is: if you invest more than the girl, she won’t like you. If she invests more, she views you as worthy of the investment.
Before, I used to talk more than the girl. It was some cool true authentic shit I was sharing about myself. Still, they all viewed it as Bottom Guy because I invested more than them, which ended up in no responses to texts after dates.
Now, with this new experience, I am understanding things better and better.
[‚… if … had some attraction …‘]
What makes you think she‘s NOT attracted? After 1h (this 60 minutes!) telling you personal stuff.
* Zero IOIs. Especially in the eyes, no Bambi / big pupils.
* Saying she has a BF who she loves very much, and saying it in an honest voice as a fact.
* Not allowing me to come close enough to her personal space. No kino possible.
So this was a very good social hook. At this point in time I did not see a sexual hook with this girl.
But of course MAYBE there was attraction signs that I did not see. Luke says: if she talks to you more than 5min, it is ON. It is just that compared to the girls who were giving me a lot of IOIs, this girl showed maybe 4 IOIs in 1h, which is her laughing when I teased her. And told me in the end I was smart and interesting etc.
I guess if there is no sexual tension, I assume there is no attraction. Maybe because she is very cute, she is one of the girls Tyler says that very beautiful women do not give IOIs. I do not know.
Again, I saw no signs of sexual tension and she did not show compliance for physicality or big pupils. Maybe like you said staying with a stranger in an instant date for 60 minutes is all the sign I need? Not sure. Let’s see if she texts me.
at what point and how did you let her know you want to fuck her?
I did:
* I told her she reminds me of the renaissance naked girls paintings.
* I talked to her about how her body has a sexy hourglass shape, which I like.
* I said she looks single, I am single too.
* I tried to touch her 3 times. I also pinched her cute cheeks. She was not comfortable with any of this.
* I looked deep into her eyes imagining we are having sex.
* I said her face is so cute it puts a smile on my face.
* When leaving, I gave her a tight hug.
She liked the verbal talk of her being pretty and having a sexy body. She did not comply to touches, so I did not push those walls further.
I did not tell her “I want to fuck you.” Every time I did that, the girl never responds after that. It is also announcing rather than doing.
Try cutting all that stuff in half, maybe cut it to 10%
Basically your adoration for her body and your verbalization of it is bottom frame.
Your job is not to stand there and tell her how pretty she is a gain and again
Just in case. Not sure if this is all you did or what did you do other than try to validate her
Try to interact with the person, make her react to you – as opposed to you being there telling her how much you like her body. Makes sense?
Figure out who she is, and give her things to react to. Things from top guy frame. Aka, tell her what to do, tease, judge, roleplay, display your value, arouse hers.
She’s not a painting and if she was, your job is to rub that painting with your dick, not to admire it.
Anyway
“* I told her she reminds me of the renaissance naked girls paintings.”
Give yourself permission to say something like this ONCE. You get ONE compliment about her body, and you’re done. Figure something else to do and say next.
“* I talked to her about how her body has a sexy hourglass shape, which I like.”
That would make two, so delete this one or the previous. Pick your fav body compliment.
“* I said she looks single, I am single too.”
This is you signaling that you want a relationship. Delete this from your toolbox and never do it again.
“* I tried to touch her 3 times. I also pinched her cute cheeks. She was not comfortable with any of this.”
Don’t ever pinch her cheeks. This is not sexual behavior – so any time you do kino that is not sexual you’re moving in the wrong direction.
“* I looked deep into her eyes imagining we are having sex”
Good. So what does your face look like when you’re imagining that? is it a nice guy face, a predatory face, a friendly face, a romantic face – what is in your face?
The proper face should be ‘cocky and confident’
“* I said her face is so cute it puts a smile on my face.”
Stop this. Pick one.
“* When leaving, I gave her a tight hug.”
You’re not her friend. If you hug her, grab her ass.
Hope this helps – you dont need YEARS OF SUCK.
What you need is to do the right things, as opposed to doing the wrong things.
[You’re not her friend. If you hug her, grab her ass.]
Yohami, how does this go with not making a girl feel like a slut?
You said Top Guy leads with his sexuality. We also know that we should protect the girl’s social value by never making her feel like a slut.
So how do we reconcile the two?
“not making a girl feel like a slut?”
This doesn’t exist
” We also know that we should protect the girl’s social value by never making her feel like a slut.”
What the hell is that? :-D
You are the man they can be sluts with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp4rj3t3xnM&t=1s
Fantastic chat between Max and Todd about ‘banging the head against the wall’ vs ‘being in synch with the girl and doing game with her, as opposed to doing game ON her’
Hey, guys! Keep asking Yohami questions: I’m learning more than I learnt in the years I started reading and watching videos about game. It’s amazing how this guy can dissect everything and talk about it all. Thanks to you, guys, for sharing your stories, and thanks to you, Yohami, for sharing your knowledge with us. Much obliged, sur!
@Yohami, how are you doing, Sensei? You probably don’t remember me, but I was the guy who fucked a girl I met on Tinder on the second date and she, in the middle of sex, said she couldn’t do it (I had already eaten her pussy and thrusted her pussy with my dick). Anyways, this girl went to Cuba and he’s coming back in ten days approximately. I come here with a small text exchange to see if you can throw some light here.
A week after she went to Cuba, I pinged her. She replied very well, but it was mostly “trip-oriented”. Ok. We exchanged a couple of messages, all with good vibes and normal time-frame given she’s traveling (1-1 1/2 days). Now, this is the little exchange of today. I want to know what she’s doing. Is she probing me for my frame? Why does she say this?
ME: (I sent her a picture of a beautiful park I go to run to near my house; the park has a big brewery inside).
ME: (She was complaining going alone to Cuba because most men harassed her a bit too much apparently). “We’re gonna go to India together; it won’t happen again next time, haha”.
ME: Hmm, that skiiin. If I was there, I’d bite you everywhere.
SHE: “Haha, you’re a liar! (“chanta”, in Argentine Spanish). You told me you were not going to wait for me, you told me you were going alone! (We talked about that during the first date; I’m a freelancer, so I travel a lot).
ME: “Haha, look what she says! It was the first time we met, girl, we were not going to go together to India… you were going to think I was crazy as fuck. Now that I know you’re a good girl, we can go together”.
SHE: “Hahaha, but we met only twice! Now it’s a different world, right? What you thiiiiink?! That’s your massive pick-up line, isn’t it?!
Before that last message, she wrote this, in relation with the picture: “Nice brewery! Now it’s your turn to take me there as tourist…” (because we met in her neighborhood the first two times; the second time, she invited me to her home).
First, she says “take me as a tourist” and then she bitch-test me because she wants to know if I’ll be saying something like: “Come on, you know I’m not a liar! Trust me”, or something of the sort. Does she want to know if I’m a bit beta in the inside? What is she looking for? What would be your reply to those messages, Yohami Sensei? I’ll reply to her tomorrow, at night, and then I was planning to put some ice to the conversation (we’ve been messaging these last three days, three/four messages per day).
Thanks in advance, Yohami. And thanks again, Nash and the rest of the guys. Keep them coming!
Sup man. So, she’s on a trip somewhere either chasing new dick or fucking some other guy or both. You are long distance and not in a relationship with her. By default this places you on a lower level than hers, and on a lower value than any of the other dicks she can have.
The best thing to do would to not talk to her at all and get busy with other girls. You can send her one or two texts along the weeks she’s traveling pinging that when she comes back you’ll take her to X place or do whatever.
But the thing to keep in mind is that you’re competing with other guys and in the current setup, you cannot win.
So pick the battles you can win.
You can be the hot guy she returns to when she gets bored of the local guys over there.
But pinging her for a relationship and a future together NOW when she’s there tasting ‘brand and exotic’ and likely having long sessions of naughty sex with whoever she’s or found on that trip – that’s a bad idea. Why do I say this:
“We’re gonna go to India together”
That’s you telling her you want a LTR
“[other men harassing her] won’t happen again next time”
The part you’re missing is that some of these men harassing her are very attractive and she’s making a point to return to Cuba as frequently as she can.
So you’re offering her a long term monogamous relationship. Right when she’s in a party sucking cock.
THIS is why you get shit tested.
She may even want a relationship – but the timing is off. She may even be in love with you. But the timing is off. Wait a minute she cannot reply now, can’t see the screen because it’s all blurry with semen.
“ME: Hmm, that skiiin. If I was there, I’d bite you everywhere.”
A mild sexual text. This one would be ok to send as an opener.
“SHE: “Haha, you’re a liar! (“chanta”). You told me you were not going to wait for me, you told me you were going alone!”
She ignores your sexual text and shit tests you for the LTR proposal. The rule is that when you offer incongruence or exhibit bottom guy behavior the girl shit tests you. Your text is incongruent, and potentially bottom guy, so she’ll hit you until you reveal your hand.
The best thing for you would be to double down so it’s over the top and dominant, example:
– Im going to fuck you on the Tag Majal
– We’re going to rewrite the kama sutra
Etc, these are not particularly good (need more coffee) but the idea is that you tie up your two messages, India + sex, and double down there, bringing congruence. So you are going to take her to India and fuck he there. If she shit tests you more then you add another two locations in the world we’re you are also going to fuck her. But you can’t ‘back down’, which you did:
ME: “Haha, look what she says! It was the first time we met, girl, we were not going to go together to India… you were going to think I was crazy as fuck. Now that I know you’re a good girl, we can go together”.
Here you’re justifying yourself to her, so you allow her to be your judge = you’re lower value, you care that she thinks you’re not crazy, and you want to roleplay that she’s a good girl.
She’s not a ‘good girl’
Even if good girls existed, she’s not one.
She was on Tinder, went out with you and fucked on the second date, right after doing some heavy back and forth drama, now she’s on a trip fucking some dude and cheating on him by texting you.
Wake the fuck up.
Or maybe you are trying to say that bringing her to India is a reward for her being a good girl. If that’s the case you’d have more success rewarding her for being a ‘bad girl’ with you. This is closer to what she wants.
“SHE: “Hahaha, but we met only twice! Now it’s a different world, right? What you thiiiiink?! That’s your massive pick-up line, isn’t it?!”
That’s she testing you for congruence. Here you can also double down, or ‘agree and amplify’
– That’s my pickup line, it works every time! ;-)
Please send her that. It will work
Then tell her you’re going to take her to india and bang her in the tag majal
This is not necessarily brilliant game but close to the loop so you are congruent. That will make the ongoing shit test disappear and will let you escalate.
IT IS OK TO BE A PLAYER
She’s more of a player than you are. Man. Specially Argentinean girls. There’s nothing going on in Argentina other than the sexual hunt. You know that’s true on your side: their side is x20 wilder.
SHE:“Nice brewery! Now it’s your turn to take me there as tourist…”
Now she is mirroring YOU and playing along the LTR angle. I guess she was able to clean her iphone screen some and now can see the pics better. Oh Mario please stop making that screen shake so much.
—–
So reply that yes that’s your pickup line and it works all the time
And that you’ll take her to India and bang her
Then tell her to hurry up and come back to you
THEN STOP TALKING
Seriously – bad timing for pursuing her. Get busy with other girls. Post pics to facebook. That will be better game to get this girl than pinging her directly. Have adventures of your own.
Cheers man
First of all, THANK YOU very much, mate, for taking the time to dissect everything and analyze it. I really appreciate it. If you’re in Argentina and if you’re looking for a student because you want to be somebody’s mentor, just let me know. I’ll pay the beers and the french fries in all meetings ;)
[[[So, she’s on a trip somewhere either chasing new dick or fucking some other guy or both. You are long distance and not in a relationship with her. By default this places you on a lower level than hers, and on a lower value than any of the other dicks she can have]]].
— Am I, just for being in Argentina and she being in Cuba, on a lower level? I’m really asking here. I sent her the first message a week after she went to Cuba; I tried to leave a big gap between the first message, and I thought one week seemed pretty OK. How does she know I’m not seeing other girls? (Which, in fact, I am doing).
[[[But pinging her for a relationship and a future together NOW when she’s there tasting ‘brand and exotic’ and likely having long sessions of naughty sex with whoever she’s or found on that trip – that’s a bad idea]]].
— My idea was not pinging her for a relationship and a future together, of course, but I think I’m getting what you say here about the India trip. I used that in the first date, which I think was OK, because it was a fantasy, it was the first time we saw each other, and I was doing some roleplay there, but using it again after quasi-fucked her maybe was not the best idea. That’s why you recommend now double down, right? Saying we’re gonna reinvent the Kamasutra (I really liked that one) together under the Taj Mahal.
[[[The part you’re missing is that some of these men harassing her are very attractive and she’s making a point to return to Cuba as frequently as she can]]].
— She actually said she would never go to Cuba alone again because she didn’t like the “machismo” of the Cuban society. I don’t know; maybe she tried too much Cuban dick? Haha.
[[[Wait a minute she cannot reply now, can’t see the screen because it’s all blurry with semen.]]]
— Hahaha, amazing stuff.
[[[She ignores your sexual text and shit tests you for the LTR proposal. The rule is that when you offer incongruence or exhibit bottom guy behavior the girl shit tests you. Your text is incongruent, and potentially bottom guy, so she’ll hit you until you reveal your hand]]].
— Understood, chief! Then I was OK seeing that as a shit-test. I’m evolving.
[[[Here you’re justifying yourself to her, so you allow her to be your judge = you’re lower value, you care that she thinks you’re not crazy, and you want to roleplay that she’s a good girl]]].
— Absolutely right. Instead of saying “you were going to think I was crazy as fuck” I was planning on writing something like “I needed to know you were not crazy as fuck”, which I think was a bit better, but my beta boy just came out of nowhere. I’ll take that into account; I can’t let girls be my judges.
[[[Or maybe you are trying to say that bringing her to India is a reward for her being a good girl. If that’s the case you’d have more success rewarding her for being a ‘bad girl’ with you. This is closer to what she wants]]].
— That was the original idea, yes, but maybe I shouldn’t have texted that line when she’s in Cuba and not here. Maybe the time was off.
[[[That’s she testing you for congruence. Here you can also double down, or ‘agree and amplify’ – That’s my pickup line, it works every time! ;-)]]]
— I’m gonna use that one (I was going to use something of the sort, following the advice you gave to Blue and the other guys, but I wanted to be sure the time was OK). I’ll come back with her answers as soon as I get them. I’m also gonna use the “reinvention of the Kamasutra”.
[[[IT IS OK TO BE A PLAYER]]]
— Amen.
[[[She’s more of a player than you are. Man. Specially Argentinean girls. There’s nothing going on in Argentina other than the sexual hunt. You know that’s true on your side: their side is x20 wilder]]].
— I know, man. Las minas están locas. Would you say it’s harder to fuck Argentine girls than European girls, for example? Or other Latin American women? What’s your experience? You recommended me before to go look for foreign girls and stop wasting time with Argentine girls, that’s why I’m asking. I’m sure you’ve had your good amount of Argentine sex, so how would you compare the girls?
[[[Now she is mirroring YOU and playing along the LTR angle. I guess she was able to clean her iphone screen some and now can see the pics better. Oh Mario please stop making that screen shake so much]]].
— Haha, the last part of that message. I read that “Now it’s your turn to take me there as tourist…” as an invitation to see each other again and have a proper fucking session. Am I wrong? Is she only probing me from an LTR angle? Or is that also an invitation?
[[[So reply that yes that’s your pickup line and it works all the time
And that you’ll take her to India and bang her
Then tell her to hurry up and come back to you
THEN STOP TALKING]]]
— That’s what I’m gonna do. Let’s say I sent her those three messages, and then she replies, am I to just STOP TALKING altogether? Or depending what she writes I should keep working? I think freeze is *almost* always good, because it’s like saying “I don’t need to chase you, I’ve options and I’m living a life I love; I don’t have time to think of you and send you millions of messages”. I consider myself as a very patient guy, I almost never ever chase women and I *really* like the life I’m living now. I want to keep sending that vibe outside and I want girls to get it as soon as possible and as strongly as possible. Sometimes I may be TOO passive, and some girls just disappear because I don’t send them messages or whatever. Is that normal? How do you know if you’re being too passive? Probably, though, that may have happened because the first impressions were not so strong.
[[[Seriously – bad timing for pursuing her. Get busy with other girls. Post pics to facebook. That will be better game to get this girl than pinging her directly. Have adventures of your own.]]]
Again, my idea is not to pursue. If that’s what you see here, then I’m doing something wrong (like the India line, time was off) and need to polish a little bit or I didn’t give you proper context. Anyhow, I know what you’re trying to say to me, and I’m trying to melt it into my frame. Thank you very much, man. As for the Facebook, I never had one. I’m just thinking about creating an Instagram account (I’m kind of a photographer myself, but never show my pictures; maybe it’s time to use social media to share my experiences and to let that work for me in regards with women. Do you think Instagram is a good weapon in this modern age? Lots of things happens online. I also like to write, so maybe “alpha-male stories” + “good pictures” = “pussy”? Do you see that as a formula that can work?
Again, HUUUUUUUUGE THANKS for taking the time to analyze this; you don’t even know how helpful you’re being here.
Big hug!
Dardo
Yes instagram is a perfect weapon. Post everything you do socially and the strongest opinions you have. That you’re a photographer is a big plus too.
Re: stop talking. The timing is off because you can’t take her, can’t bang her, can’t do anything, and she potentially has other men there. That makes your voice ‘weaker’ in the noise, and you want your voice to be the strongest one every time you speak. That can happen in the current context, so let it be.
But first close that loop you initiated over text, make it full circle (india + sex + come back girl). Then let it go for now.
Argentinean girls are very easy to bed but very hard to tolerate.
Also the specific courtship dance is full of ‘histeria’. It’s like it was written by someone with a bipolar disorder, with very violent turns up and down. Your story here is a perfect example: nice girl, amazing first date with kino and kissing, then she deletes you, then adds you again, then you meet and have sex, but she makes you stop in the middle of it crying, then tries to make you feel bad for being a player, then goes to Cuba to fuck someone else – all in under two weeks?
:-D
I spent some years there (Im in Europe now) and took me a while to realize I couldn’t fix my relationships with Argentinean girls because ‘drama’ is the local flavor. From screaming in anger to screaming during sex and crying because you don’t love them then you find out they’ve been cheating since day one or are married. You know Im right!
So I left the Argentinean girls for the most part and switched to bang europeans, americans etc, Buenos Aires has a ton of them. I’d have an Argentinean girl here and there and every time I’d do so I’d learn some more about the local drama.
These girls just can’t be ‘happy’.
But enjoy it for what it is. It’s got it’s charm too if you manage not to get too involved.
fix: you want your voice to be the strongest every time you speak, and that [can’t] happen in the current context.
“If you’re in Argentina and if you’re looking for a student because you want to be somebody’s mentor, just let me know. I’ll pay the beers and the french fries in all meetings ”
Yeah that’d be fun. I’ll ping you if Im in Argentina, that may happen later this year.
Film him infield, before and after :D
Haha, that’d be awesome, man. I’ll be like a sponge (I have years and years of theory in my mind; I think I need guidance).
Just let me know if you happen to be here!
Yohami, what do you think about this?
[“We’re gonna go to India together”]
This is one of our Daygame things where we build a future story together only to build more comfort and familiarity so we are not a stranger anymore. Then we are more likely to have sex.
One of our fundamental principles that it is the comfort and having things in common together that gets you to sex. Not the attraction, banter or being high value.
As you can see Krauser saying here, girls for fast anonymous fast sex want purity of connection much more than they want a high value top man:
https://krauserpua.files.wordpress.com/2018/02/early-drafts.jpg?w=1280
[Also he allows the energy to go too low]
This also related to one of our Daygame principles, or at least two. One is that as a masculine man you are chill and grounded, so after you get her attention, you drop your energy to normal ASAP.
The second thing is that you are testing for vibe compliance. If you get to low energy, which we view as masculine, and she follows you, you are the one leading her and she is the one copying you, which is you bringing her to your world.
The belief is that you do not go into the girl’s world. In every love story, the woman wants to be swept off her feet into the man’s world.
So by bringing her to your vibe, and normally it is a chilled masculine grounded calm vibe, she enters your world.
Why do this? Because if she enters your world, she views it from your perspective. And if in your own world, you are the most important person in your own reality, then she will view you as the highest status man that exists because you are the center and master of your universe.
[“not making a girl feel like a slut?”
This doesn’t exist]
Even RSD guys like Tyler and Max make sure the girl doesn’t realize you’re going to have sex, otherwise her alarms go into defense mode. They just lead her and keep the fun up, and keep distracting her brain until cock is inside the pussy.
They don’t even say: let’s go to my place. They say let’s go somewhere fun. Never really making sex obvious because girls fear for their reputation and having sex with a stranger can damage their reputation as a dirty little slut.
That’s the theory at least. What do you think?
[either chasing new dick or fucking some other guy]
Yohami, is this belief that women are constantly horny and chasing new dick a useful “delusional” belief to have, or is it in your view reality?
In my experience, except in a few places in the world, most women are not chasing new dick and they might stay 6 months or a year without sex.
[this is a HUGE part of why yohami is so good. he gets this, BIG TIME. so he talks to girls this way. he talks to their pussies. he talks directly to their pussies. he bypasses their brains and their “hearts” and goes directly to their pussies — and makes their pussies tingle.]
Yohami, is this done purely though focusing on arousal?
What Riv means is that he’s trying to get through their pussies by talking to their brains and hearts. Aka, he’s hiding his dick. He wants penis in vagina but he takes a parallel route and then tries to jump ships. While I go for penis in vagina (what Fuckboy means with ‘man to woman’) since moment one. Yes – focusing on arousal, and acting from top frame.
Mr Blue
———————————————
“Yohami, what do you think about this?
[“We’re gonna go to India together”]”
We’re going to india together, as a roleplay, is fantastic.
Roleplay: when you make up a feel-good story that involves you and the girl.
This is specially good at the beginning when you’re establishing the frame. It’s different to walk to a girl and tell her “we’re going to india together” or “our kids are going to be pretty” or “let’s get married and divorced in las vegas” or “what our kids are going to be named like” – different than telling so to a girl that you already have a relationship with. The value of the roleplay is you get the feelings from the story but none of the compromise. It’s a game, a fantasy, not a real invitation.
The situation with Dardo is that he’s using that roleplay with a girl he already (quasi) banged, so he’s increasing the current commitment status of the relationship, in a moment when he cannot use the arousal (if it happens at all given that she’s with foreign dick). He cannot do anything with that roleplay. He’s not in a bar with her, or in bed with her – nada. He’s not increasing the tension or going anywhere with it. The only extract that can be taken from it is that he wants ‘more’.
Context is king.
———————————————
“the comfort and having things in common together that gets you to sex”
This is ridiculous.
“Not the attraction, banter or being high value.”
Burn whatever source you got this from.
Or, how about you try.
Dedicate a month trying to have sex through comfort, having things in common.
Then dedicate the next month trying to have sex through attraction, banter and being high value.
Tell me what you find.
———————————————
“girls for fast anonymous fast sex want purity of connection much more than they want a high value top man”
When fuck boy / Krauser say “value” they are basically talking about wealthy betas with good manners, who rely on their societal position and resources ONLY as their means to being attractive to women.
That’s not what Im talking about when I say “top guy” as I’ve written a million times here.
Translate nonsensical K’s line to this:
Girls go with fast anonymous sex with sexual, confident man with authority who know what they are doing and how to arouse them.
The trick for YOU is that the only way you’re going to be comfortable being a ‘confident man with authority who knows what he’s doing’ is going through the steps required to become a ‘top guy’, which is the same as the ’emotional guy’ in Fuckboy lexicon. Or, the same hurdles that are preventing you from being an actual attractive man are also preventing you from being who you really are and being in command of your own life. And you simply can’t become that man by focusing on getting laid only – because you’ll carry the wrong frame with you and will bounce against a wall. You need to become the man, then be that man with girls. When you are that man, girls will want the ‘purity of the connection’, translation, COCK, and if you really deliver then they’ll want more and more and more, then some more. And they will want this more than they want the ‘value guy’ or ‘wealthy well mannered beta’, because they never really wanted that other guy.
———————————————
“Why do this? Because if she enters your world, she views it from your perspective. And if in your own world, you are the most important person in your own reality, then she will view you as the highest status man that exists because you are the center and master of your universe.”
That’s a nice theory, but
Fuckboy Tim lets the energy too low to the point the girls start feeling bored. Bored isn’t good seduction. He doesn’t let it pass the threshold and remains cool chill connected, but still.
And, girls never see you as the center of the universe and can’t never, ever, see the world from your perspective. Every girl is at the center of her own universe. What can and will happen is that they put you inside of it, and pamper you and feed you like you’re a kid on their garden.
What happens when you’re at the center of your own world, and you’re the highest value thing there, is that, such thing is precisely, TOP GUY, which is what girls find attractive. So she’ll want to have it. When she wants to have it, what she’ll do is soak in your energy and mold herself to you and take possession of one thing at a time, luring you to take her in (by displaying her arousal stuff). Once you’ve taken her in, she’ll start taking more and more possession then will start nesting. When she’s nesting she’ll start replacing all these oh so beautiful spaces where you are the most important thing in the world and putting her imprint there, then taking control of these. It all ends becoming her house and then kids pop up. If you’re dumb enough then you get kicked out of that house. Rinse and repeat.
So what you’re doing in courtship is just the very first step of that whole dance. And the easiest part too.
———————————————
“Even RSD guys like Tyler and Max make sure the girl doesn’t realize you’re going to have sex”
No, this is pure bullshit.
In the case of Tyler, he still doesn’t believe he’s attractive, so he’s still, after all these years, ‘tricking the girls into fucking him’. He doesn’t know yet, apparently, that when he’s doing the moves the girls are getting aroused and they want to fuck: him, because how he’s making them feel. All the paradoxes in Tyler is that he still thinks he’s violating some natural order, when actually he’s just doing things as intended.
“otherwise her alarms go into defense mode.”
This happens when you’re bottom guy and want to fuck them.
It happens when you move ahead of the pace, too. It happens when you ‘put them on the spot’. Ok another definition:
Putting them on the spot: when the act of sex depends on her.
The reason girls don’t like that is they don’t like responsibility, and run away from blame. The reason for that is that their natural state is submission, and what they are looking for is a dominant LEADER who knows how to get things done and is in command, and is successful at it. When you ‘put them on the spot’, when you require a YES / NO from them and they must decide, then they naturally recoil from it because 1) they don’t want the burden and 2) they are not attracted to a man who doesn’t know how to make things happen.
But of course they know sex is on the plate.
This is a real head scratcher. I cant believe this is the blue pill reality even though I was there a long time ago. It just doesn’t fit. The girl you’re flirting with is wearing sexy clothing that she picked herself, and she knows the effect it has on men. She likely depilated her legs and her vagina. She likely knows if she’s menstruating or not and if sex will produce offspring. She had an array of men all salivating over her and from all of them she picked you, for the sole reason that you are the man who arouses her the most right now. You KNOW all of this. However you think that, for her…
… she’s clueless that sex is going to happen?
… she doesn’t know that you want to fuck her?
… after you picked her up and flirted and are pulling moves and kissed her?
What do you think she’s there for?
You think you’re interacting with a carrot?
You need to get to know more women. Many more.
So.
It’s your job to make things happen without passing the leadership ball to them. Which leads me to this:
“They don’t even say: let’s go to my place.”
The reason why this can be a bad idea (not always) is that it’s putting them in the spot (read above). They KNOW (surprise) that you want to fuck them, and if they say YES to going to your place they are consenting on having sex. So it comes down to ‘are they ready to have sex now’? if not, then they wont want to go to your place.
So the best for this is the false excuse or plausible deniability – you offer something else that can happen at your place, aka eating pizza, so that lets them not having to commit to more than they are willing to commit now. Say if they get to your home it doesn’t necessarily mean that they say YES to sex, it remains a MAYBE, and it will depend on how you escalate back home.
In my particular case, what I did was to arouse women before getting them to my place. So, flirt flirt kino tease flirt flirt, kiss, makeout, hands in boobs, if the temperature was enough in my estimation I’d just say ‘let’s go’
Guess what, they knew what I meant.
Go figure!
“where?” “my place” “what are we going to do there?” “same as here, but better ;-)” “ok (puppy eyes)” “Taxi!”
This a million times.
So you don’t even need the plausible deniability if she’s ON. You’ll need it when you’re mid escalation.
“Never really making sex obvious because girls fear for their reputation and having sex with a stranger can damage their reputation as a dirty little slut.”
This is bottom frame.
The girls reputation goes UP when she bangs top guy. If anyone finds out that is. And people will find out because she’ll tell all her close friends how she met ‘that guy’ omg omg. Then the friends will want in too.
———————————————
“is this belief that women are constantly horny and chasing new dick a useful “delusional” belief to have, or is it in your view reality?”
It’s just what is. You need to meet more women, and get past the facade.
You know what K calls ‘secret society’, well you’re not in, which why:
“In my experience, except in a few places in the world, most women are not chasing new dick and they might stay 6 months or a year without sex.”
You don’t have experience.
So where are you getting this story from? What’s the source?
But again, even looking on your own experiences, that should make you wake up from the blue pill trance because your own experiences are, already, incongruent with what you said there.
You got these numbers form girls. All of them are not looking for hot dick, but they were willing to bang YOU. Just that you blew it up for now being congruent. But these girls are also telling you something: they have abundance or they wouldn’t just let you go. If they were spending six months without sex and living in scarcity, how do you rationalize they let you go so easily? don’t you think that if they can let you go and treat you like you have no value – it means that they have access to better value that you’re offering at the moment? where are they getting that better thing from?
If you get close enough to them, they will tell you. You have to cross into up and center in the tribe. Then they don’t even have to tell you because you’ll see it with your own eyes.
Cheers man
Fix: All of them are not [only] looking for hot dick, but they were willing to bang YOU.
[You know what K calls ‘secret society’, well you’re not in]
Secret Society is something that Tyler introduced about 12 years ago, way before the Red Pill, he’s the originator and people took it from him.
Here is the article he wrote:
The Secret Society – by RSD Tyler
Many guys will dislike this, because it implies that women are sluts and untrustworthy. Well, I
can only speak from my experience and report back what I’ve seen. I’m also posting in a semisatirical
tone – I haven’t gone off the Deep end….. yet… :)
A secret society exists. Around 52% of people on this earth are a part of it.
In the 52%, 50% are women, 2% are men.
Of the 2% of male members, half are gay, the other half are players.
What I’m talking about is the sex secret society – and you are either IN or OUT .
SOME RULES OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:
1) Don’t talk about the secret society.
2) The priority of the secret society is to have perpetually good emotions in all members.
3) Create shrouds around the secret society, like “all men are dogs”. Hide the truth that women
are far more likely to cheat than men.
4) If you are part of the secret society, you will never be denied anything at any point.
5) If you are not part of the secret society, you will scrap and beg for everything you get.
6) Communication in the secret society is less often verbal, and more often spoken through body
language, subcommunications, and verbal subcommunications that would only make sense to
members. Any other way, and the 48% of men would pick up on it, and it would no longer be a
secret.
7) At the first sign that someone who is not part of the secret society is possibly trying to pretend
that he is, berate him with both love-rhetoric, and accusations of chauvinism and nit-witted-ness.
It’s OK to cheat on someone who is not a part of the secret society, so long as it is for the
purpose of fulfilling the needs of someone who is, or if it is to fulfill your own needs and it is with
someone who is a part of the secret society. Sleeping with a rare guy from the secret society is
no worse than grinding with a girlfriend at a club and making out with her. “It doesn’t count”.
9) Nobody judges each other in the secret society. There is no such thing as a slut. A is only
as slutty as people who are NOT in the secret society are aware of.
10) Secret society members COME FIRST. If someone in the society is not having fun with an
interaction, it is cut off. Conversely, if a secret society male is with a non-secret-society male,
and a secret society female (all females) decides she wants sex from the secret society male, the
friend of the female may have sex with the non-secret-society male, because EVERYONE in the
interaction must feel good. However, if the non-secret-society male is blowing himself out so
badly that he makes the female member feel very bad emotions, then the secret-society-male
must face the consequences of bringing negative emotions into the equation, and lose out on his
privilege for sex in that interaction, until he ditches the non-secret-society male. Bear minimum
requirements for non-secret-society males being grandfathered in with the male member, is that
he not qualify himself or make anyone feel uncomfortable. Failing to meet those requirements,
both are blown out.
WHAT IS THE SECRET SOCIETY?
Women are repressed by men, and so must look out for themselves. They will take care of:
1) Their own sexual needs.
2) The sexual needs of anyone in the secret society.
3) The sexual needs of the few males who make the secret society possible (“players”).
The secret society is what allows women to appear wholesome and allows them to screen for a
longtermprovider/emotionaltampon.
Women hold off to find the perfect boyfriend, while sleeping with a guy who is likely sleeping
with all of their friends, and their friends’ friends.
They also fuck their gay boyfriends or jerk them off or give them head.
They’re part of the secret society too, so they can’t be left out.
EYE WITNESS ACCOUNTS FROM SECRET SOCIETY INSIDERS (based on dozens of interviews I
did over the summer, with girls in London England, as well as some from my own experience as
a player):
1) If you tell a girl that you’re gay, and that you want to “see what it feels like to be with a girl”,
she’ll sleep with you. She won’t insist on using a condom either, unless you do. You’re part of the
secret society, where condoms aren’t necessary because they are logical entities and not
emotionally relevant.
2) If you subcommunicate that you are a part of the secret society, and tell the friend of your
target “I’m really lonely. My girlfriend cheated on me, and I need to re-validate myself tonight”,
she’ll tell her friend to fuck you. Her friend will realize from this that you are a part of the secret
society, and she’ll fuck you. Moreover, if the friend refuses, the ugly girl will offer you a blowjob
to help you out.
3) If you manage to verbally subcommunicate that you are a member (it’s still subcommunication,
because the verbal ways you communicate it aren’t direct at all), the secret society members will
gladly tell you all about their sexual exploits and adventures. As soon as you subcommunicate
that you desire romance, she will immediately retract all of her previous statements (and she’ll
look completely congruent doing so), and downplay them that it was something she did just one
time and that she’s looking for a relationship. PUA: “I love to go out and hook up. I hate it
when girls try to run my life”.. HB: “Me too.. I hooked up with guys all last year.. My boyfriend
tried to control me, but I do what I want.. My girlfriends all do it too.” PUA: “Really? Cause to
be honest, I’ve always felt like I’m a romantic guy.. And girls always cheat on me.. I want to find
a girl who won’t cheat.” HB: “I would never cheat. Guys are dogs. I’m always loyal.” PUA: “But
didn’t you say…” HB: “No, I said nothing.” PUA: “No, you said that you don’t let your boyfriend
control you and you do what you want.” HB: “No, I didn’t mean that. I’m not a slut. I have no
idea what you’re talking about, I didn’t say that.”
4) If you are a member, and say that you are really lonely and you need someone to snuggle and
makeout with, all members of the secret society will agree to do so with you. If you are a girl,
you have privilege to snuggle and kiss and sleep in the same bed as all other girls. If you are
gay, you can do the same. If it escalates to sex, its an accident and does not count. If you’re a
player, and you make girls around you emotional, and the friends are all in good emotions about
it, they sleep with you. No one is a slut in the secret society, because the secret society does not
judge.
5) If a group of girls living together find a guy who is in the secret society, they will all fuck him.
They’ll recommend him as an honorary secret society member, and enjoy him. Meanwhile they
may be in relationships with non-secret society members that they’ve fallen in love with, however
this is not an issue because nobody in the secret society judges and sex with people in the secret
society does not count. If you are a secret society member now, but in the past enjoyed a
romantic relationship, what you may not realize is the part that was left out of the romance novel
story (due to rules no1&2 of the secret society code), which was that after you dropped her off
your romantic star watching, a secret society member came by and fucked the shit out of her
without a condom and gave her the money shot all over her face.
6) If a secret society male has a non-member male friend, the friend of the girl who wants sex
from the male member will have sex with the non-member even if she doesn’t like him. However,
rules state that if if the non-member is “creepy/scary” (kinos too much, leans in too much, asks
dumb questions, tries too hard to impress, overqualifies), then the male member will be expected
to return either alone or with another male member. Also, the male members must remember
that positive emotions are always priority, and if he is alone he must still maintain the positive
emotions of the female member who will not be getting sex, secret society rules not to be
breached. Number 1 rule of the secret society, outside of not talking about it, is that EVERYONE
maintains GOOD emotions.
THE UNDERLYING MISUNDERSTOOD TRUTH OF THE SECRET SOCIETY:
The 49% of men who live outside of the secret society don’t understand the mental model of
attraction of people who are in the secret society.
Men view attraction in their MALE MENTAL MODELS. They believe that attraction is “sexual
aggression”. They understand attraction as having a physical urge to have sex, and then mentally
deciding that you will go after it.
They try to seduce women by touching and grabbing them, and getting them very horny. They
try to seduce them in the SAME WAY that a woman would do well seducing THEM. They try to
seduce them as if they were seducing a GUY. This sometimes works, and the propaganda is
spread – “this is how to get chicks”.
Secret society members will not fill them in, due to breach of the code.
What the secret society members are not telling you, is that they understand that most sex occurs when women are not sexually AGGRESSIVE, but sexually RECEPTIVE.
They understand that for women to be ready for sex, they need not feel horny, they need only feel EMOTIONAL.
They understand that women are not logical, and that they are emotional.
They understand that for women sex is not a big deal at all, and that its their LOGIC that puts the breaks on it.
They understand that most women are afraid of sex because they lack TRUST, and because their LOGIC is putting on the breaks.
They disarm logic by making the women EMOTIONAL, so that their LOGIC (which is the BREAKS
of emotion) becomes disarmed, and at the same time maintain TRUST, so that the emotions
generated won’t be interfered with.
Then they simply have sex, because although the women are not WANTING sex, they are too
EMOTIONAL to DECLINE sex. Then, once they BEGIN to have a physical interaction, the women
become horny and sexually aggressive as a result, and sex begins.
(NOTE: This is why girls must COCKBLOCK for each other. Because they know that clubs are
emotionally charged environments, and that it wouldn’t take much for a guy to use her resulting
sexual receptiveness to lay her. The guy may not be a guy that the girl would lay normally, were
she feeling more logical, so the girls must look out for each other. Guys don’t need to do this
because firstly, they will not be judged for sleeping around (no logic), secondly, they are sexually
aggressive – not receptive – so their decisions will not be regretted later usually, and thirdly,
because they do not need trust because they are not usually in any physical danger).
They also understand that value + trust + attraction = sex (rough lazy model).
Value = being someone in the secret society (it can also be SO many other things, but being a
member can in some cases be sufficient)
Trust = not telegraphing interest
Attraction = increasing her buying temperature by making her emotional (emotionally aroused,
not necessarily physically aroused.. the former will cause her to be too illogical to prevent you
from causing the latter, when she’s ready)
Don’t tell anyone about this. All knowledge will be denied and you will be ridiculed.
Ok Yohami, so here is Jon Matrix, which is probably the best Daygamer we know of.
His style is unique because he seems to almost not be doing anything from the Daygame techniques, his style is “lazy”, not flashy. He is also short. Yet he gets the hottest girls from any Daygamer pro we know of.
Could you please analyze this video of his? Most people fail to find out why his stuff works so much better than anyone else, yet he doesn’t really seem to have “amazing game” or be super alpha or whatever.
He’s running anti game, has the body posture of a handicapped monkey, leads her in the wrong directions, stacks useless lines.
The girl is also weird – stoned and not human. So this is either
A) Fake, paid model
B) She’s in drugs / autist
C) Lucky interaction (1 in 100 type thing)
D) All of the above
There’s nothing to learn from it, other than – hire stoned models and you have 1 in 100 chance to get their phone numbers.
Im sure you can do better than this already
Yep, guy is fake. The body alone itself tells you everything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr456y_J_TM
Guy stands ‘tense’ in front of her and she doesn’t back down even an inch, and doesn’t react to him at all the whole interaction. Stiff and non human. The guy is uncomfortable and creepy as fuck. The girl is a stone. This is not human territory, so it’s either
A) Paid / fake
B) The guy has a radar for picking up alien masterlords masquerading as humans
C) All of the above
Maybe Jon “has a radar for picking up alien masterlords masquerading as humans,” because he got challenged multiple times and was able to pick girls off the street that are better looking than most other daygamers.
The puzzling thing is he does a lot of things “wrong” and still makes it work.
My theory is it is because of his eye contact. Look at his eye contact with the girl in the video you linked.
I do that. And when I lock in eyes very steady like that, girls just keep looking into my eyes non stop, their eyes don’t move, they don’t look anywhere else so they might not even notice about him whether he is tense or his clothing or even face.
Here is how a normal good daygame interaction goes, but notice her eyes do move so he did not lock in eyes with her like Jon. When I lock eyes with a girl and not stop looking into their eyes, and I think Jon does that too, their eyes get Bambi and they just cannot stop looking at my eyes. Tyler says that when women look at a man’s steady eyes that is equivalent to a man looking at beautiful boobs.
Anyway, here is the interaction, and Jon Matrix has been followed for a while in the streets and filmed, and also with his students, and he got the girl doing almost everything that we learn to not do.
Here is the video of a normal daygame interaction:
Jon Matrix eye contact is creepy weird, and the girl is stiff and has zero human reactions. I’d have to see the challenges. Don’t try to learn from Jon, learn from actual human interactions.
And Torero is fake.
Just so you know – this guy is weird, weak, frail, insecure, unaware of social interactions, zero social / emotional intelligence, no humor, doesn’t know how to flirt etc.
He’s creating ‘weird tension’ and he thinks thats sexual tension. It’s among the worst I’ve ever seen.
Question:
Who does daygame and is not a fake? Torero? I know he’s been known for faking some of his pick-ups, but I reckon he’s, in reality, good with his shit, right? Krauser? Sasha? Todd? I just love Todd, I think he’s very precise on his way of addressing different topics, and one of his last videos “The Art of Game Manifesto” was fantastic for me. This guy Tim, the Fuckboy? I’m checking him out also; seems legit to me.
I’m fairly new to the daygame model; I was more of the “become a man that naturally attracts women” school, the De Angelo school, who’s later I found was also fake or something of the sort, but his books and ideas opened a new world for me; he was the first guy who told me “go work on yourself, become attractive, from every point of view, and people will start orbiting around you like moths on a flame”.
Non fakes:
Fuckboy Tim, Max, Todd, Tyler, Jabba, Krauser, Street Attraction, 4weeknatural. Not all are good though.
DeAngelo is fake but had good stuff, that was my introduction to Game as well… 2006?
Watching some more Jon Matrix, this interaction looks legit, see how this girl is human – Jon also looks human
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KdanNZ84ak
He doesn’t take any of the girl cues, and the body language is still weird as fuck – but at least it’s a human interaction unlike the other two. The girl is liking so, to each their own
Just compare him when he’s not in front of a hot girl – his body language is much better, no weird facial expressions, more dominance etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuDCie5edXo
Our friend Jon has it easier being a top guy among other men who see him as a leader, than when he’s picking up a girl and he has to demonstrate his value…
:-D
You’d think he has to practice becoming this leader of men more, and then be that man when he’s with girls too.
[The girl is liking so, to each their own]
Well so that you know Yohami that Jon Matrix is a legend in Daygame circles because he does get girls doing “everything wrong” and until now we cannot explain it.
He is also one of the people Nash learned a lot from and respects. I think Nash watched probably 20 hours of Jon Matrix infields and breakdowns and Nash’s game is inspired by Jon just like many people.
Jon’s advice is be normal, be yourself, and you can get any girl. That is the secret. Not game or techniques or being alpha or any of that. All you need is to be comfortable with yourself and talk like a normal guy without putting on a persona, and it will work.
Yohami, you can also that Todd is weird as fuck infield. He seems nervous and shit. Compared to Todd, I am mister smooth player pimp, I do better than both. But it is inspirational to show a little bit of Top Guy can really have such a HUGE effect (in their case, having the balls to approach).
Look at this and tell me if it seems Top Guy to you:
https://youtu.be/WJvHKYgzwcs?t=4m27s
He’s worse than Fuckboy but still way better than Jon Matrix.
Read body language.
A few thoughts on Jon Matrix and emulating other guys in general…
I think a common issue among newbies (I was guilty of this myself) is seeking the ‘holy grail’ of daygame and revering certain figures in the community. I think for newbies it’s actually good to find someone who’s style you want to emulate and to learn the core principles from. But after a while you realize what your personal strengths are, your personal preferences, circumstances, temperament/energetics etc and you build on that while taking a bit of inspiration from others.
While every guy needs to get down the fundamentals which are universal, on top of that you can be successful with different styles. So for instance, it may be universally important to build polarity but one guy might do this through verbal challenging, another through playful teasing, and a third guy through non-verbals alone and each approach may work equally well.
The notion that there’s a holy grail is bullshit. If you violate the fundamentals though you will pay…
Back in the day I listened to all the London Daygame podcasts which included ~50 with Jon Matrix so I have a decent sense of the guy, at least from a distance. Like any guy he’s got some things working for him and others against, in my mind….
Assets: low investment, non-reactive, in his own reality, steady voice tone, sincere vibe
Liabilities: lack of social ‘calibration’, over-reliance on structure (though keep in mind these vids are used for teaching the LDM so he may exaggerate the structure), some anxious body language (I see this more as low-level social anxiety than nervousness over the girl’s reaction)
I think the most interesting thing about his game is his ‘in my own reality’ almost detached vibe which depending on other elements of his vibe at different points in time can come across as either socially uncalibrated/awkward/creepy OR non-reactive, low-investment, dominant, and powerful. I think we see this in the videos: one leans more toward the former and the other toward the latter.
I believe Jon’s background was as a professional poker player/programmer and he’s a logical/highly introverted guy. And I’m not sure what he’s up to nowadays but back when I listened to him he was into spiritual stuff e.g., did lots of meditation, psychedelics, did tantra and went months without ejaculation etc. So for a very spiritual oriented, highly introverted/logical INTJ/INTP type Jon may be a good sort of guy to emulate. Whereas for a different sort of guy, emulating him may come across as creepy as fuck. So if you emulate his style YMMV.
[And I’m not sure what (Jon)’s up to nowadays]
He retired from game, has a girlfriend, and is into spiritual stuff and meditation above all else, as his main interests.
Yohami, maybe then you’ll like Steve Jabba, which is one of the world’s top naturals that Daygame PUAs studied intensively (like K studied him and wrote a book about his style of game, called Primal Seduction, and all other Daygame guys spent time with him to learn what he naturally does).
Does he have Top Guy in him? He’s not a PUA, he’s naturally VERY good with women.
This?
Hahaha, I like the way he goes away after the interaction, laughing as if saying “I’m the shit”. Awesome video (Y)
I don’t know if he’s Top Guy (he clearly exhibited dominance, congruence, calm, fun, phisical proximity before the kiss) but the interaction was pretty awesome. Kiss close in less than 5 minutes and number. Let’s way for the master to address the video.
Krauser is for real. Start with his beginner product, the Black Book:
http://www.blackbookvideo.com/sales_pages/37681-black-book-sales-page-1
This right here is the problem with all Game. Can you see it?
“The big secret to my outrageous results is I have a SYSTEM. It’s a system that allows a normal man like you to pick up girls WAY OUT OF HIS CLASS.”
Yes. I see it.
However, in his newest book “Daygame Infinite” he says Game as a system is only a way to deliver your value. You cannot get girls out of your class. You only get girls who are somewhat +1 or +1.5 grade better than you had as a blue pilled beta.
So in his latest thinking, game is not what gets your girls. It is your value in the sexual marketplace that does.
Yep – the costumer for that kind of thinking is the bottom frame. “Hey I don’t want to change, just give me a system”
“1 to +1” that’s still bottom shit.
If you are getting the girl AT ALL she’s seeing you as higher value than she is. Otherwise there’s no attraction.
You may be inflating your value by parroting negs and doing Game stuff that you don’t actually believe in, thus it’s ‘inflated’. But posturing that sort of stuff consumes more energy than doing the life changes required so these things come naturally. Either case, for the girl, if you’re getting her, she’s still banging someone above her, or she wouldn’t be there.
For you – Game is either lipstick on a pig with very limited effectiveness, or your second language that fully allows you to express who you are (when you move to top guy). So you’re either posturing game or expressing yourself with game. When posturing you maybe get girls +1 above your value (because you can’t posture that high). When expressing, your value actually goes +5 so you bang hotter girls that you would when posturing, even with ‘supreme god like fake Game’. At the end of the day you’ll be shit tested for congruence and that’s something you can’t fake.
Not being able to fake it is also why most pua advice for newbies is ‘shut up’. The more you express the more you mess things up.
Which stops being a problem when you address the basics.
Btw the main reason I haven’t read a book about Game is, who the fuck is going to buy it. I haven’t seen that market. The market seems to be ‘get abs with no work’. “get girls above your league”. “do this trick and everything changes”
The reality is that you have to die several times and change your whole life and go against the things that scare you. It’s not a shortcut: but it is a fast road.
Instead of spending 1000 approaches and doing suck years, you do 2 months of actually changing and growing. 2 months or so. But who the fuck wants to grow.
Heh
If I write a book on that it should be ’60 days to X’ and tell you what to do on each day.
Bottom guy would love that.
Well, when Krauser wrote his books, he said the person who benefited the most was himself.
When he needed to explain things in a way anybody can understand, give concrete examples from his life, and also realize which parts were unclear in his mind that he needed to go deeper into and clarify, that put his game 10X because the book enabled him to turn abstract things in his brain into a structure.
Plus, man, there is always a market for “hard” stuff. Beach Body did it with Insanity which turned out to be very popular. Don’t believe too much in the people who talk about how the market is just made up of people who want the easy fix BECAUSE IT DOES NOT WORK.
So people start looking for the easy fix. They try it for a few years, and fail miserably. Then they give up.
But the message of: the easy fix does not work. This is the hard fix, it works but it is fucking HARD. That does have a market, and it is the people who tried the easy way and were disappointed again and again, so will be open to the hard.
There are many people who go for that market where you need to totally change. In online business, Rich Schefren does that. In workouts, BeachBody Instanity or many others like Daily Burn Inferno:
https://dailyburn.com/inferno
Or even Krauser himself, he’s not in the “easy newbie” market.
But anyway, as a Top Guy, I think you’d do things first and foremost for you to grow. So a book can be first and foremost for you to crystallize your thinking and also as your legacy, something you can leave to your children and contribute to the tribe of men who are willing to die and die again and be reborn. THEN, when coming from this place of pull and letting go, the success comes ;)
That link you just gave me promises a 6 pack after 21 days. See what Im saying? :-D
“I think you’d do things first and foremost for you to grow. ”
Yes I agree.
Yeah, Jabba’s got it. I grew a lot just by watching that kiss close back in the day.
Jabba is a ‘sexual monster’, a good example of what ‘swinging your dick’ is about. Watch him standing in front of the girls, moving and taking, teasing and flirting, the girls get all giggly. Great stuff. Much more masculine than Fuckboy Tim or the rest of them.
The problem is, I don’t see Steve Jabba breaking rapport. He compliments the girls, does not challenge them, does not screen them, and asks them boring questions.
So how can he be Top Guy protecting his high quality semen?
You can see that in all infields, including this one:
He was ‘breaking rapport tonality’, and he constantly interrupts her. So where you don’t see it?
The question he asks are not important, all the communication is physical, plus he’s direct in wanting to bang her.
“So how can he be Top Guy protecting his high quality semen?”
Not sure what you mean here. You’re not a girl protecting your eggs. Your screening consists on judging if the girl is worth your intent. Sometimes the only bar is that she’s hot and receptive. That girl is hot, he pinged her and she showed to be receptive = that can be plenty.
You’re not a woman keeping invaders out. You’re a seeder trying to put your seed on fertile ground. This girl is fertile.
On the other hand there are some videos of Jabba hitting on old hags. Whatever rocks his boat.
But the point is that most of your preselection is done before you talk to the girl. You are the one taking action – so you have to know that you like the girl enough to initiate contact. That preselection is where you ‘protect your high quality semen’ most of the time. It’s you deciding who you interact with, and who you don’t.
Philander, moving here so I dont hijack every Nash’s post with a QA
—————————–
“would waiting also work with girls where I screwed it up, like with that Nadina, who eventually blocked/removed me?”
Blocking is a permanent wall, anything you do there is chase. You can bring it down by bypassing it, aka, talking her in another channel where she didn’t block you, but it has to be non-chase. You can talk with authority to them and tell them not to block you. But you are in murky territory. The reason she blocked you is you messed up hard, to revert the blocking you need to understand what is what you did wrong and correct course, she has to ‘feel’ she wants you in.
By going after a wall you’re stacking all the odds against you.
“hey party girl”
Party girl can be both qualification and disqualification, are you trying to flirt or neg? pick one and change the nickname to something that is unambiguous. Make it snap to the meaning you want, set a solid frame.
“work or would it be chasing, not punishing her for bad behaviour, aka bottom guy try hard?”
She blocked you – you’re the one being punished.
“Do I need to write off every girl I fucked up texting with for good?”
Don’t necessarily write them off – ping new ones, and when you’re feeling good, ping the older ones with the same good mood you’re having with the new ones.
When you’re feeling in abundance and dominant, ping the old ones, invite them to your new party. Some of them will like that.
Philander
————————————-
ME: We have a drink?’
HER: When
ME: 9pm old town
HER: Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?
ME: Ok tomorrow time X place Y. Wear sth. sexy to make up for it
————————————-
Let me fix the context for you
* * *
ME: We [HAVE SEX]?’
HER: When
ME: 9pm old town
HER: Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?
ME: Ok tomorrow time X place Y. Wear sth. sexy to make up for it
* * *
Do you see how you are messing up? Let’s slow down
“ME: We have a drink?’”
Good call to action. “Drink” is SEX, you both know it. So will she comply, come closer, farther?
“HER: When”
This means YES. She will have sex with you, now when do you want it? set the logistics
“ME: 9pm old town”
Good, clean stuff, to the point.
“HER: Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?”
Pause. Look for the opening, and the wall.
The opening, or what she is saying Yes to, is Tomorrow. She is saying “I will have sex with you tomorrow”
The wall, or what she’s saying no to, or the conditional, is that it will happen IF she says home today. And this is within her control and out of yours.
So your job is to double down in the openings and push or manage the walls. This goes different case by case. You have to reward the Yes, and punish or ignore the No.
When this actually happened in your interaction you simply didn’t reply, so you lost the opening, bad move. In this one, look what you’re doing:
“ME: Ok tomorrow time X place Y. Wear sth. sexy to make up for it”
You’re punishing the YES.
So IF this happens tomorrow, now she has to make up for it?
Make up what for what?
You made the YES more difficult. You punish her compliance.
The only situation where this would be good is when negging her is a reward. For example if she loves guys telling her that she has to dress sexy to make up things for something. If she likes that game, then what you did is perfect – but as a rule, reward good behavior and punish bad behavior.
—————————-
PUZZLE:
The combination of the YES and the NO, or the Opening and the Wall, or the Arousal and Non-arousal.
The puzzle is ‘solved’ when you make her flip to Yes, which is done when you invest on the Yes and push aside or make her retract her No.
Case example:
—————————-
Translate:
“HER: Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?”
Into just the opening:
“HER: Tomorrow”
And fix the context
“HER: Tomorrow [I will have sex with you]”
Put that big, bold in your forebrain and react to THAT.
She just put her vagina in front of you. Get aroused yourself and act on it.
“HER: Tomorrow [I will have sex with you]”
ME: Perfect ;-)
ME: Awesome
ME: Fantastic
ME: Can’t wait
Etc. You acting on the YES part directly is a reward. This is rubbing her the right way.
Now let’s flip it an interact with the wall only.
—————————-
Translate:
“HER: Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?”
Into just the wall:
“HER: maybe, if today I stay at home”
Can you tell how annoying that is? It annoys the shit out of me. I have no control over what she does, she’s bouncing this ball against me and there’s nothing I can do with it. So let’s react to that:
You can answer to a wall by retrieving your investment, example:
ME: Whatever
You can answer to a wall by passing the ball to her side
ME: Sure, ping me when you know
You can answer to a wall by stacking it up and calling her bluff
ME: Looks like we’re not meant to see each other again :-o
You can answer to a wall by negging her
ME: you’re such a nerd
You can answer to a wall by reframing the wall into an opening (make sure this is not chase, and that the reframe is more inviting than your original call to action)
ME: Let’s have drinks at your home then
You can answer to a wall by negating the wall and doubling down on your original call to action
ME: It has to be today, Im leaving town tomorrow
You can answer to a wall by bypassing it completely
ME: “maybe” means yes, see you tomorrow xxx old town
* * *
Which one is best? depends on context exclusively. Let’s look back at the puzzle.
—————————-
—————————-
—————————-
ME: We [HAVE SEX]?’
HER: When
ME: 9pm old town
HER: Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?
This is not even true yet. We need to fix some more context.
HER: Tomorrow if today I stay at home ok?
This is bullshit. This is what’s going on. She has another option for dick today and she’s waiting on his confirmation. If she fucks the guy today then she won’t fuck you tomorrow. If she doesn’t fuck the guy today, then she’ll fuck you tomorrow. So here’s what’s shes saying
HER: [I WILL HAVE SEX WITH YOU] Tomorrow if today I [ DON’T HAVE SEX]
Managing pussy is hard. So much dick so little time.
—————————-
—————————-
—————————-
So giving that this is the actual puzzle
HER: [I WILL HAVE SEX WITH YOU] Tomorrow if [ I DON’T HAVE SEX WITH THAT OTHER GUY ] today
Look back and see how you feel about it, given your history to her, and come up with something that addresses both. You can choose to interact with the Yes part only, which is usually the most productive thing
ME: Awesome
ME: Sounds good, see you tomorrow
You can choose to interact with the No part only, in this case it would be about taking the wall out of the way, this needs to be strong and competent. Dealing with a wall is murky territory, you have to be stronger and more qualified than her objection, it has to be non-chase, this varies greatly with context so all of these are either dead-on perfect, or miss the mark by a mile, this is case specific:
ME: Sure, ping me when you know (shows you’re not that invested, elevates your value)
ME: It has to be today, Im leaving tomorrow (forces her to rank you against the other guy now)
ME: ‘maybe’ means yes, see you tomorrow XXX (bypasses her shit with a stronger call to action)
—————————-
—————————-
And having the whole context opens up new scenarios
ME: Ping me when you’re home, I’ll bring a bottle and we’ll have a good time ;-)
THIS above is what I’d have replied in this specific scenario.
A girl who’s willing to fuck me tomorrow if she doesn’t have sex today, is a horny girl chasing some alpha dick who hasn’t given her a solid answer for a date today. That is a girl who will have more fun having sex with me than chasing some guy who’s also chasing some other bitches. To me, this means sex today, and I’ll arrange the logistics to make it happen, by becoming her second best plan for today
* * *
ME: Ping me when you’re home, I’ll bring a bottle and we’ll have a good time ;-)
Bang.
Let’s assume she sets a wall to that:
ME: Ping me when you’re home, I’ll bring a bottle and we’ll have a good time ;-)
HER: hahahah
HER: Tomorrow, if I stay home today :-)
Then you can just interact with the wall
ME: Sure, ping me when you know
After that – you’re done here, she’s dead to you, now she’s on the wait list. The ball is in her park. You ‘let her go’. She WILL come back to this. It will either be tonight, or tomorrow, or in a week, or in a year. But here you showed enough ‘top guy’ value, and eventually, which means in an hour or in ten years, she WILL be ranking all the options she has and she’ll have this open thread and she’ll come back to you. This is what girls do. They can’t stop it. They are wired to manually rank all the dick they get and put everything with their proper labels.
So when she comes back, she’s receptive, and anything you do there will have a x10 greater impact than any chase / pull attempt you do when she’s in a less receptive state.
In other words, make your moves, state clear your flirt or call to action, then let it be. Just fucking let it be and wait. Get busy with other women. All the time it takes her to come back at you is her getting read for your particular shape and form. And it’s not your problem, it’s hers. When you don’t chase, you let her find her best spot to receive what you have to offer.
But still you need to take on all the openings, ping all her yeses, and get all her walls out of the way and deal with them when needed, so the ‘tip of our intent’ is in touch with her ‘arousal spot’ and there’s nothing else in the middle.
—————-
Another thing she could reply to my call to action is a shit test
ME: Ping me when you’re home, I’ll bring a bottle and we’ll have a good time ;-)
HER: hahahah I don’t like drinking home
This is golden and means it’s a yes, you keep escalating
ME: Don’t be boring
If you feel like dealing with a wall
ME: pst, it will be great, what’s your address
If you feel like going for the yes part
On and on and on and on.
And of course she can also do compliance
ME: Ping me when you’re home, I’ll bring a bottle and we’ll have a good time ;-)
HER: hahahah I don’t like drinking home
ME: pst, it will be great, what’s your address
HER: XXX avenue XX this is crazy :-)
ME: I love it. 9pm?
HER: Yes
ME: Awesome
—————–
Opportunities are taken
Walls are pushed aside
Compliance is rewarded
Non-compliance is punished
Arousal spots are addressed
Non arousal spots are ignored
Problems are solved with escalation
No ‘banging your head against a wall’
No ‘validating to her’
No ‘chasing for rapport’
No ‘chasing when she’s moving away or setting barriers’
Not ‘getting stuck with real or imagined barriers’
Makes sense?
—-
If you watch Jabba’s pushy but determined pickup that ends with the girl taking him to her room he’s doing all this – take it as a case example.
Look for Max doing night / day pickup, he’s doing all this. Or Todd.
No ‘announcing’
No ‘asking for permission’
No ‘pampering her with compliments’
No ‘frame clash’
No ‘adding a puzzle of your own on top of her own puzzle’
No ‘passing the power to her so she makes all the shots’
No ‘asking her for salvation’
No ‘asking her to take the lead’
No ‘trying to be difficult’
No ‘trying to prove anything to her’
No ‘doing demands to make her qualify to you that are not strictly necessary’
No bullshit!
Well, it all is also very complex. Good to have this as a checklist to go over.
The next challenge, after doing the homework going through my texts, will be to apply the Yohami Top Guy Frame principles in the actual live interactions. That requires training, like speed chess, reading the openings, becoming aware of the context, weighting my options and then saying the right things (or rather DOING the right things, incl. shutting up or walking away).
In Daygame, ideally, because although I see Yohami’s points against Daygame, I still love it (even though I currently am lazy bum approaching), because it has made develop so much as a man.
Good list for printing and placing it in the wall (Y)
Thanks, Sensei.
By the way, Yohami, in the previous post about the Cuban girl, I left a couple more questions I’d be thrilled if you could check. There’s no rush, of course! I’ve already sent her the messages (I sent them today, not yesterday). As soon as I get her replies, I’ll come back here with the answers.
Yohami
Can you clarify what you mean by “announcing”?
To me when I thought of that. Could be something like this:
“I’ve got a do in the city Wednesday evening. Come have a drink with me after”
So the first part of that was the announcement.
I’m not clear what “asking for salvation” is either.
Sure
Announcing:
Verbalizing what you want to do with her, instead of doing what you want to do with her. Example “when we get to my house Im going to kiss you” (instead of kissing her now)
The problem with announcing is that its asking for permission, it’s a ‘testing waters’ sort of thing.
Also it reveals your intent but blocks your intent, or, if you want to kiss her, why are you not doing it? so it reveals your block more than your intent (she already knows what you want)
When you remove your own block the announcing goes away
* * *
This ins’t announcing, but a call to action (and looks fine)
“I’ve got a do in the city Wednesday evening. Come have a drink with me after”
If that call to action is a fantasy, like “let’s have a drink in paris this afternoon” when you’re in texas, it becomes a roleplay.
————–
Asking for salvation:
When you point at the ‘special thing’ you have with her, to make her care and do something. Specially when you point at it to let her know how much you care and how this is something she should care about too. So she ‘saves your hurt heart’ from seeing your shared special thing destroyed by her.
What will happen most of the time is she stomps over as a result. Why? if that thing is valuable to you, your job is to make it work and lead. If you pass the ball to her it means you’re bottom guy so she doesn’t want whatever ‘special thing’ you’re trying to use to snare her.
“but we had chemistry!”
“the depth of our connection was not normal!”
“but you said you liked me!”
That sort of stuff
Crystal clear. And looking so easy—AFTER reading your detailed analysis.
I think I have to do more homework, clear up the fog in my mind/perception, train my frame into this direction.
Thank you so much for the bullions you offer here!
Again you’re the precise surgeon with the scalpel (if not saving lives of many, at least making them much better with long lasting effect).
You got me with ‘be unambiguous’.
In pre-game times I used to piss off girls who were initially attracted in no time due to my ironic, sarcastic ‘humour’. Which was a mix of several messages in one, frustration about past rejections, putting her on a pedestal, trying not to, and hiding my insecurity.
That ambiguity was nothing else than fear of showing my dick, of taking the risk of showing my intent and possibly getting rejected.
Through hard work and game I got over that but obviously I still need to be more precise and straight to the point.
I may not come up yet with the right texts immediately but I notice that I start understanding that Top Guy frame, it feels sonehow natural—THANKS to you and Nash and all the fellows. Exciting
“In pre-game times I used to piss off girls who were initially attracted in no time due to my ironic, sarcastic ‘humour’. Which was a mix of several messages in one, frustration about past rejections, putting her on a pedestal, trying not to, and hiding my insecurity.” -Philander
great description! me too, big time.
that’s one thing i love about yohami’s tone when he texted with miss sunshine. he was incredibly “open”, relaxed, natural, just very very relaxed and calm. reminds me of the tyler phrase “walking through the world with ease.” love that.
You’re welcome man. Let me know what you find as you go about switching frames :-)
Today I went crazy, maybe approached 20 or 25 girls, just to bring back the joy of Daygame rather than the helplessness. And it was great. I met 5 great girls, I went on an instant date with a theatre actress super cute real redhead (which is rare where I am).
And as I was going home, I approached a girl who was both pretty and tanned (not normal for people to be tanned in winter here), and we had a great chat for 15 minutes on her way to the gym, and we talked about her trip to Amsterdam and how she tried weed there, and how she is an accountant for a large company but has trouble meeting guys, and how she was just in church before going to the gym and I met her on the way, and I told her: “You were praying to meet a great guy, well here I am ;)” and she really liked that, that spiked her emotions a lot. And she told me how romantic our meeting was because it was raining when we met. It reminded me of how special these moments are, because as Yad said when you approach a lot you forget how special each approach is for the girl, you just get used to it and it doesn’t seem special anymore.
Well, when we met I only gave her 1 compliment as Yohami recommended, which is “I like your eyes.”
Anyway, I pinged all 5 girls whose numbers I got, and this gym accountant girl answered fast. So here is the text conversation so far:
Me: Mr Blue
Her: :)
Me: I am listening to my favorite music and reading a cool story.
Me: [Photo of my music and the book I am reading]
Her: Nice
—–
That text is what Krauser has introduced to text game in Daygame Infinite, which is Window Into My World text: you send her texts with pictures of cool stuff you are doing so she feels she knows you as a person. It’s what Yohami would call a ramp. We do that before asking for a date.
I will not answer her text today. I do not feel like it.
I’ll send her tomorrow Yohami’s great line: When are you free? I’ll take you out ;)
Any advice Yohami?
Man, you’re a fucking machine. I envy that drive and the will to approach lots and lots of girls. If you manage to take control of your text game and follow throughs, you’ll be banging like there’s no tomorrow.
Keep up the good work!
As for the text, she seems to be a bit off, only saying “nice”. Seems there was a good connection in the insta-date; you talked about a ton of things. If I were you, illI freeze the conversation a bit and wait for her to come back. If that foesntd happen, then I’d ping again and attack for a second date.
But let’s wait for the master to come.
[Seems there was a good connection in the insta-date]
It’s not the same girl.
The Insta-Date girl is the actress, and she has rehearsal tonight, so she won’t answer my text now.
This girl is the gym girl, a different girl, who I did not insta date but talked to her in the rain for 15 minutes. I know she is eager, I can sense in her vibe she wants some cock in her life.
I think her responses are quite good. Like in Krauser’s video, you shouldn’t expect all girls to be PUAs and know how to text and to give you some wonderful stuff to work with.
The gym girl is an accountant, so she’s probably not used to a lot of social interaction. The sign of her being ON is how fast she responds to my texts.
[Man, you’re a fucking machine. I envy that drive and the will to approach lots and lots of girls.]
Thank you Dardo, I really appreciate the kind words.
You should try it. Approach a lot. In the beginning, it is scary as fuck and you will suck even if you know all the theory.
AND the weather is probably really nice in Argentina nowadays. So worth a try.
Remember though that Buenos Aires has a reputation for being a bad city for Daygame. Girls there really give harsh reactions to foreigners who talk to them on the street. But you are a local, maybe you will have better reactions speaking in Spanish.
Either way, approach a lot. Even do something stupid like approach 100 girls in the day, just say “Hello” and leave. Once you get over the fear, the game becomes fun. Rejection feels like nothing, it doesn’t hurt anymore. But you need at least 100 approaches to get there. And when you stop approaching, then the pain will return.
Do it every day ;)
I’ll do it, mate, and then I’ll come here to report. I’m more of a social circle / shared interest type of guy, but I know that’s not “abundant” nor “scalable”, as Todd says in the Game Manifesto. I need to generate more “opporunities” to be around girls and then just train and train and train and train until my “external” reality starts to affect my “internal” reality, as Fuckboy Tim says. I think my “internal” game now is pretty tight because I really enjoy my life now, but I need to work more on my external, that is, go out and fucking talk to girls and kill my AA.
Weather is really good now, yes. Summer, not super hot, luckily for us. I didn’t know Buenos Aires had that reputation, but it’s like Yohami and me say: “Las minas están locas” = “Girls are crazy” in Argentina.
Thanks for the feedback, man! Keep it coming!
Yeah, Buenos Aires girls have a reputation for being very rude to daygamers. In many other places girls are nice even if they are not interested, so you feel good about Daygame.
Still, perfecting your craft there will make you so much stronger because of adversity that if you go somewhere else, from Colombia to USA to Europe, you’ll be like Superman among mere mortals.
In all cases, Ross Jeffries said something once that I always remember: The pain of rejection is the price you pay for getting the girls you want.
So for you, facing you AA is the price you pay for meeting wonderful girls that you wouldn’t otherwise meet. It is the cost. It is the expense.
Good things in life are not free. So start paying with the pain of rejection until you become desensitized to it and then it won’t bother you anymore.
The first day approaching after a while of not approaching I feel like a little scared bitch. The only way out is to just do it.
Even every day when I start approaching, the first few approaches are not that smooth.
It is normal. It means you are not a psychopath.
Congrats man – taking action and taking to girls: yes. Also got 5 girls to like you. Way to go.
“Any advice Yohami?”
Yes, drop the shit game
:-D
This is shit game:
“Me: I am listening to my favorite music and reading a cool story.
Me: [Photo of my music and the book I am reading]”
I don’t care if God himself gave you these lines. That’s shit. Why?
Because you’re going for rapport, and rapport is asexual.
You see how I was saying that anything that is about how you like and what you are feeling is shit game? why? because it makes it about you and you’re pinging her empathy. What are you expecting to happen here? You are doing this, so she does what, exactly, after?
Do you want a ‘me too’ from her? what’s the move she’s supposed to make?
What do you think this means, followed by silence?
“Her: Nice”
No questions about your book? no deep conversation about your music? nada?
Why is that? because it’s shit game. You just increased the difficulty of the puzzle.
—-
So – this is about you rubbing HER. Sending a pic of your book is shit, unless you make it about her. This line is passive:
“Me: I am listening to my favorite music and reading a cool story.”
The exception is when you are talking to a girl who likes to read and is a true fan of music. Then you can ping her with music and books (because it’s about her). How do you do so?
Take a picture of the book, and send it, along with a question
ME: “Have you read this book? I just started it and it’s f*king great”
HER: No .. what’s it about? (this is why she has to be into books, otherwise you wont be pinging her interest)
ME: Come and I’ll read it to you in bed ;-)
HER: (melts)
See above? there the book is just a fake rapport into sexual escalation.
You are doing a SEXUAL dance. Don’t go for rapport. Friends do rapport. You’re not her friend. Do rapport only is rapport is what turns her on (very rare when this is the case, and when so, it’s usually about listening to her speak).
—–
That said, you need to close the loop you initiated, otherwise you’ll start going down in attraction.
So:
Me: I am listening to my favorite music and reading a cool story.
Me: [Photo of my music and the book I am reading]
Her: Nice
Me: Do you like to read books?
Her: Sometimes, Im not that much of a reader
Me: Well this one is fantastic, I’ll read it to you in bed ;-)
That above is not necessarily great game but you have to close that loop: the initiative you made needs to lead somewhere, or you’re just random. Random: wasted energy = bad game = her libido goes down. You can’t let her cold “Nice” be what stops your rapport attempt or you’re just letting there form a wall, you start playing a game where you try to lead and then get nowhere. So make that little convo land.
—–
The next time before sending the call to action “when are you free…” ping her before.
Me: hey babe [or nickname]
Her: Hi :-)
Me: When are you free? I’ll take you out
The ping is the ramp. Do a little warmer like that before the call to action.
Why?
When she replies to your ping, it means she’s receptive. So your call to action is escalation.
Prepare her before escalating: that’s good game.
You are absolutely right Yohami.
So the belief I should have is: girls only care about themselves first and foremost, they don’t give a fuck about me other than in how I can arouse them and not be bottom guy to them?
Well, here is how the convo evolved after reading what you wrote:
Me: I am listening to my favorite music and reading a cool story.
Me: [Photo of my music and the book I am reading]
Her: Nice
Me: They should write a book about meeting in the rain today. It was romantic. ;)
Her: :D
Me: When are you free this week? I’ll take you out.
She responded:
Her: Friday
Me: We meet 16h Friday at (XY location) ;)
Good. Congrats on doing the call to action, progress being made :-)
I hope 16h is not the time of the date?
————–
This line is still shit game:
“Me: They should write a book about meeting in the rain today. It was romantic. ;)”
So at least you closed the loop and gained congruency, but:
Wasn’t ‘romantic’ what she said about meeting with rain? if so you’re parroting back the lines she said to you (which is something you’ve done before). Parroting back her lines means you’re stalling and reacting to her. The dance is about you leading FORWARD, not you remaining in the same place shielded by her approval of you.
There’s a reason why I closed that loop with a roleplay of me reading the text to her in bed. That happens in the future, it hasn’t happened yet, it’s not me parroting her approval of me, Im not going for a ‘me too’ etc.
Talking about the ‘romantic meeting under the rain’ is the same as insisting that ‘the coffee was nice’ or ‘the kiss was good’ (factory).
Anyway, now go and bang her. Time to lose that virginity!
[There’s a reason why I closed that loop with a roleplay of me reading the text to her in bed.]
In my mind, that is too sexual and will lead me to lose the girl.
It is announcing ;)
[Time to lose that virginity!]
Daygame virginity. Yeah. Always working on that.
“It is announcing ;)”
No, announcing is “I want to read you a book in bed”
Leading is “I’ll read it to you in bed”
Announcing is, specially “I want to kiss you” when you’re actually in front of her, so you could just do instead of say it. Announcing is verbalizing stuff that you could be doing.
When you’re on the phone, even saying “I want to kiss you” is not necessarily announcing, it can find a place.
My text is roleplay, and believe me, it’s not too sexual: it’s barely sexual.
Start pushing things out of your comfort zone.
There’s no such thing as “Im going to lose her for being too sexual” for stuff like this.
You probably missed this:
Her:Nice (silence)
Her lack of interest is a ‘wall’. Her response to your brilliant game lines was to let you know she’s not interested and is letting you go. Women are that brutal (and you can burn that book you got the lines from, and my advice is cosigned by this girl).
So she just gave you a wall. What to do next?
PUNISH her fucking wall.
Me: Do you like to read books?
wait.
Do you see it?
The attempt to do rapport got blocked by her lack of interest. Keep insisting on how good the book and sending more pics of all the activities you do would be ‘pushing against her wall’ or rubbing on her non arousal, thus losing this game.
So what I do is to address the wall, and judge HER
Me: Do you like to read books?
It doesn’t matter if she does or not, but because I ask this, now she has to qualify to me. Everyone has shame that they don’t read enough books. Very few people are proud of not being readers. So when she sets a wall of desinterest and sets a wall, what will she experience now?
Shame.
That’s your punishment for setting a wall. She’ll do it less and less from now on. Set a wall? feel shame. Set another wall? be judged. So.
Me: Do you like to read books?
Her: Sometimes… Im not that much of a reader
That line above is compliance now. We’re not longer in a game where I try to show her the things that are important to me and she pushes me aside with disinterest, but a new game where I am the judge of the cool things and she’s qualifying to me, which I REWARD now
Me: Well this one is fantastic, I’ll read it to you in bed ;-)
Judging the book as ‘fantastic’ is me tripleing down on my first judgement, and ‘reading it to her in bed’ is the reward.
This whole thing is not great game because the starting point, telling her you’re reading books is SHIT, so it’s starting with the wrong foot – but the followup is ‘great game’ so it’ll arouse her. Unless she’s a girl who hates being read in bed and dislikes books that much.
Which would make the initial line even more shit :-D
So don’t send stuff like that again.
Send a message that you know or are pretty sure will arouse her, and know where you want to take things next.
[Me: We meet 16h Friday at (XY location) ;)]
Well, the girl read this message then went silent. Another girl lost.
No other girl responded. I let them all go now in my mind.
Back to zero.
Is 16h the 4pm afternoon? or friday the 16th?
4PM.
I do not feel I can pull a girl home on the same day unless she is already ready.
So I was going for 3 dates before sex.
Oh well, I guess she expected me to tell her 10PM or something. I’m not a mind reader, she could have just responded “4PM is not good, XPM is better” or whatever.
We never know. Maybe she’ll text Friday to confirm.
Yes – she’s expecting a fuck date (even said friday, there’s no ambiguity here) and you arrange for a matinee.
Strike one – “look at what Im reading” (chasing for rapport)
Strike two – parroting her own lines to her (good boy staying safe in her approval, not leading)
Strike three – 4pm (you defused the sexuality of her opening)
“I do not feel I can pull a girl home on the same day unless she is already ready.”
She’s already ready: she’s talking to you. Plus she was low energy answering your bs but went straight to fuck date when you asked her out.
“Oh well, I guess she expected me to tell her 10PM or something.”
Yes of course. Fuck date after work. Not 4pm. She’s not 13.
“I’m not a mind reader”
You’re supposed to read HER and have experience with other women to know what’s going on.
“she could have just responded “4PM is not good, XPM is better” ”
This is asking that she saves you, or guides you, or leads you, or set things right when you’re messing up. This right here is you asking that she lowers the bar and lets you in when you falter. The quicker you get rid of this desire, the quicker you’ll rise the bar for yourself. You need to LEAD here. If you pass the ball to her, you lose.
“We never know. Maybe she’ll text Friday to confirm.”
Hopefully. Give her all the time in the world to reply, maybe it will get reframed when she’s needy and she’ll ping back.
Another thing about me compared to other daygamers is they go for girls who are 6 or 7 in beauty (Even K does this).
I do not talk to a girl who is less than 8/10 in beauty.
The girl from “4PM” is a true 8.5. That is why you see me talking to models and actresses etc, because any girl who doesn’t stand out in beauty, I don’t bother with.
That probably makes the game much harder, because Top Guys will be around such girls, so if I drop into Bottom Guy, it’s often bye bye. Compared to an average girl who 1 inch of Top Guy will make her drool.
The only exception is if a girl is 18 or 19. I would allow her to be a 7 lol Because in that age range, I add +1 for being a teenager. So a teenage 7, I consider her an 8.
But most girls I talk to are not teenagers. I often talk to the type of girls who other men will be looking at her in the street, then look at me talk to her with no fear and be like “wtf?!” Girls like that girl Fuckboy Tim approached in the street, or better, are who I talk to. I did not get in the game to fuck average girls, it is not my motivation.
Or maybe I just suck lol I am still coming from the Bottom Guy paradigm, and try not to “scare the girl away” after I get her number, which is not attractive, it shows she is important to me.
25 is a lot, well done. And 1 out 5 NC ratio is also good. Curious about how you will apply Top Guy Text Game…
And also about where you live – Buenos Aires?
[You are doing a SEXUAL dance. Don’t go for rapport. Friends do rapport. You’re not her friend. Do rapport only is rapport is what turns her on (very rare when this is the case, and when so, it’s usually about listening to her speak).]
Yohami, what you say really contradicts what we learn as gamers.
Listen to this podcast by Tom Torero. Yes, Tom did fake an infield BUT what he teaches is the best of what other people teach, so he’s no inventing this, it is what is agreed on in game. Plus, Tom Torero is Riv’s Top Teacher, and we understand why he faked that infield, not because he is 100% fake, but because he wanted to do something extraordinary (kissing a girl within 2 minutes of meeting her) as a marketing plan, but it backfired.
Anyway, no matter who says this, this is what game guys think of rapport, and that too much “arousal” and not enough rapport will end up in not getting the bang. That if the girl laughing a lot, it is not normal, you are viewed as a player and you lose the girl. Comfort is the heart of game according to them, arousal is only to hook the girl in the beginning.
https://youtu.be/Xk5OmKIdBJE?t=11m
Well, listen to him and please respond to what he says, to the main points, so we know.
Torero is bottom guy plus clueless, creepy, week and fake. Get better teachers (there are many).
” you are viewed as a player and you lose the girl. ”
No, you gain the girl when you’re the player.
“Comfort is the heart of game according to them”
Can you define comfort? what is more comfortable to a girl: Top guy cock, or a backrub by a bottom guy?
“arousal is only to hook the girl in the beginning.”
Nope, you’re mixing up words. What they say is “Attraction” not “arousal”, and they usually define Attraction as “negs” and “qualification”
And the robotic dance is split something like open / attraction / comfort / pull / close?
You understand that to have sex, her arousal needs to be increasing all the time, right? from 0 to 100, so when you take her to bed she’s fully aroused?
Or would you say that she only needs to be aroused when she sees you, and then no more arousal is necessary?
Is the only way to be attractive to a woman to ‘run attraction rutines’ aka qualification, negs, etc?
Man no wonders this crap produces so much LMR.
Week = weak
Honestly, look at this approach Tom did, and tell me if he is weak:
Yes, that’s all sorts of wrong.
I’m watching Todd’s Game Manifesto again. Just heard this:
“The comfort you want to have with girls is what I call “High Value Comfort”. HVC means that she being with you won’t be a degradation of her. She’s comfortable it won’t make it look slutty, won’t make it look bad socially, won’t give her a venereal disease, won’t have her have a kid inside her that has bad genetics or that won’t be raised by his father, all of that. It’s comfort that it won’t be a loss”.
High value = top guy. Why did he have to add it to “comfort”? shouldn’t comfort be enough?
@Yohami, what do you think about this video from Todd?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM182pKzrPA
The messages I sent to this girl are what Todd here is calling “hard game”, right? Like “alpha male” / “top guy” kind of messages, which, according to Todd, are to be used mostly with girls that don’t like you or don’t know you yet. When you have established a connection (after fucking, quasi-fucking, making out, touching, etc.) he’s suggesting using “soft game”, trying to get into the comfort/connection zone.
Taking into account my story here, shouldn’t be using a mix of soft + hard pings and messages instead of going all in? I’ve already sent the messages and I’m really happy with them; I’m asking for future references with new girls and to see what’s your opinion on the topic. For example, how do you, in your experience, know when to tone it down a little bit? Or, even better, do you *ever* tone it down? After what? Sex? Multiple sessions of sex? A certain amount of time?
Hugs and thanks in advance!
Dardo
I’m replying to my own message, yes.
After writing this and thinking of it a little bit, I think now the proper option for me was to play “hard game cards” because of the loop I created with the other messages and because of the context of the situation (she being in Cuba, me being here). Maybe that’s why?
The other question remains, though :P
“For example, how do you, in your experience, know when to tone it down a little bit? Or, even better, do you *ever* tone it down? After what? Sex? Multiple sessions of sex? A certain amount of time?”.
What Todd means here with “hard/soft” is “punishment / reward” and this is the issue with every PUA creating their own idiom (me included).
At the beginning she’ll do more shit tests so you’ll do better punishing her more. But then she’ll switch to compliance, and punishing compliance is stupid because you’re punishing good behavior, so you kill the good thing.
Punish the bad thing and reward the good thing. This isn’t on a fixed timeline but the normal thing is that there should be more bad stuff at the beginning and less after that. But bad shit will pop up here and there. So don’t think of it as something you do on your own after a number of dates, don’t ‘soften’ just because time is passing (that will work against you). Instead reward her for good stuff and punish her for bad stuff. If she’s always good, then you’ll be rewarding her all the time, which looks like ‘soft game’ to Todd.
Super clear, man. Formula is easy: “Punish the bad thing and reward the good thing”, all the time.
Thanks!
Yup! np.
[parroting her own lines to her (good boy staying safe in her approval, not leading)]
In Daygame, we have the concepts of Trance Words, where we repeat words that seem important to the girl, and mirroring and matching, which is before leading the girl, to act like her to make her comfortable. So we match how she is to let her relax, and then we become ourselves and she will follow because she feels we are similar.
So you think such ideas are Bottom Guy? Nash, for example, likes to repeat girl’s “Trance Words.” So that is what I was trying to do by “parroting” that because the way she said “romantic” showed it is important to her, not some random word.
Let’s see, so how well are the trance words working for you?
Do you note that her interests goes up and up and up when you act like her?
Does she look more and more comfortable the more you do this?
Yes, this is all bottom frame.
Why?
Because, what’s your initial assumption? can you tell me?
What will happen if you don’t do this? and why?
Isn’t it that you’re doing this stuff because otherwise you lose her?
Are you trying to arouse her?
Or are you trying to make her not run away?
Are they the same thing?
——————————————————————————————
Now to the useful part. Nash mentioned the trance words and I commented on that before. Here’s the thing: the girls tell you how to fuck them. They specially do so in the beginning. They will say things, mention things, give you the walls and the openings, they will say words with a specific intonation, they give you all of the ‘puzzle’ data upfront.
So she says ‘romantic’ and paints that scene about rain.
This doesn’t mean that you now have to repeat ‘romantic’ to her as a ‘trance word’
What this means is that acts of romance arouse her.
Every girl has a different combination. Some will react bad to romance and want adventure, some want a drunken hookup, some want an asshole, some want a prince, some want a skateboy, some want – something else. This one, early on, very early, said it was ‘romantic’ to meet you. Then stop.
Is she saying that as a compliment or as a neg?
If its a neg then you switch to something else. You keep switching and poking, thats your ‘dick swing’ dance. Eventually something clicks / resonates.
Is she saying ‘romantic’ as something she likes?
Then pay attention and double down there.
What is romance for her? to find this you can’t ask directly. Roleplay. Make up a situation about you two, tell a story, initiate conversation, pass judgement, and note how she reacts. What is romantic for her? dinners? old couples? puppies? being fucked in the ass by an octopus? fucking a random stranger in paris? saving an orphan? chocolate? art? sadomasochism? What does ‘romantic’ mean to HER?
Do you know?
Do you see how parroting back ‘romantic’ at her means you are not getting it? “trance words” is surface level thinking.
This isn’t about you ‘acting like her’
She wants something. Is it in your repertoire to deliver it? are you compatible there? can you LEAD HER THERE? if her ‘romantic’ is something you can perform?
“trance words” pay attention to the elements she gives you, and do more of that. Give her what she wants.
Parroting back and being more like her is, instead, bottom game trying to be a girl.
You have to be the KING of her dream and make it happen.
Instead of trying to camouflage yourself with her words.
“So we match how she is to let her relax, and then we become ourselves and she will follow because she feels we are similar.”
Pacing and leading http://www.mindwhirl.com/marketing/marketing-psychology/how-to-persuade-anyone-using-pacing-and-leading/
Scott Adams is often talking about this sort of stuff
Yes, that’s what I was talking about.
Most PUAs recommend it, except Tyler because he says it is you reacting to her rather than being in your path.
But we are supposed to do it as a way to help her feel more comfortable with the interaction.
That audio from Tom, he talked about something critical: you don’t need rapport / comfort if you are from the same social group, if she knows who you are.
So since you specialize in Tribes Yohami, if you are part of her tribe, you don’t need rapport / comfort.
But as an outsider “invading” her tribe, we need rapport to let her know it is about sex not aggression. Like Arash Dibazar says, “What are the chances in prehistory of an encounter between a woman and a stranger man to end up in rape? 100%. So you should show her you could be dangerous but you are nice, so the fear changes into excitement.”
Do you agree with this? When you are the center of her tribe, she is already safe with you so you do not need to make her feel safer or rapport / comfort. But us as men roaming the streets, we’re strangers, so we have to give her a level of comfort / safety / rapport.
Honestly, what we do as daygamers is nothing short of pure magic.
Yohami, if you’d try it in Buenos Aires in the street or mall without talking to anyone before to show the girl how you interact with others to raise your social value (and not in bars and other places where girls expect you to approach them). Just see a girl walking in the street, no pre-approach so she doesn’t give you IOI because she doesn’t see you, and just go talk to her. You will see how difficult it is to open with direct intentions (not asking for directions, showing your cock) and creating a 10-15 minutes conversation with a stranger girl out of nowhere. Especially in Buenos Aires.
I am not getting laid from Daygame. Yet, what I can do is a miracle to 99% of men out there. And whatever happens later, during those 15 minutes where I honestly am not pushing buttons or trying to game the girl, I just use game as a way to make the interaction more fun, in her eyes I am Top Guy, and she is in love. Later on, whatever she thinks, whether she thinks I must be a player and she’s just another pussy or whatever, that is not the point.
The point is: in Buenos Aires, go talk one on one to 10-20 girls in the street or malls in 1 day. You will find some VERY friendly girls, but with most girls, you have to create the magic. That is not easy. It tests the Top Guy metal. No clutches there, the man has to be either almost perfect Top Guy or it won’t work. You won’t have automatic good reactions because of who you are or how others react to you, it is about who you are 100%.
I am not a huge fan of Roosh, but this video means a lot to me. He is right.
Man, in Buenos Aires I can go ANYWHERE and get laid, day, night, noon. It doesn’t matter. You’re not getting the basics yet.
TOP GUY is the product.
The time of day is irrelevant.
A lot of my lays were girls I’d see on the street and I talked to them. It wasn’t called “daygame”, it’s just Game.
Don’t get stuck in a system, it’s never about the system.
Watch Fuckboy Tim – the way he talks to girls at night is the same way he talks to girls during day.
Tribes – you’re signalling all she needs to know with your fashion style and body language, before she even says hi.
You don’t have to ‘persuade’ a girl to bang her. That’s assuming she doesn’t already want what you have, so it’s bottom guy. If you’re bottom, then you can’t persuade her of anything anyway.
Basics first.
The reason I don’t like daygame is that it’s a bad scenario to LEARN how to be topguy. Because the framing is already off. If you were dedicated 100% to game at all times of day, nonstop, that would be ok. But with Daygame you’re picking it because you’re afraid of the competition with other men at nightgame, and who knows what’s preventing you from the other areas of your life where you can be flirting with women.
Then the whole embrace of the chase system where you run to a girl and get their phone – having sex with a woman has nothing to do with all this system. It has gaps. Then because you’re alone all the time you don’t have the exposure to what girls are actually responding to, you don’t see the girls picking men, you don’t see the couples forming, your feedback loop is broken – running after girls from the bottom / outside of the tribe when they are not specially sexually receptive is the ‘wrong’ setup to learn to be top guy.
The proof is that everyone in this side of game thinks you need 1000 approaches and years of suck to get started.
Wrong!
If you could get this thing sorted in two months, would you do it? if so what’s preventing you from doing so? why are you embracing the suck? why not embracing the win?
Something there I can’t understand.
Honestly I don’t think “Top Guy” is that common, so going to clubs or whatever I will just be exposed to Bottom Guys.
Also, there is a belief that is common which I share, which is that “No Pain, No Gain.” Daygame is the most painful type of game that exists, so it must be the best growth opportunity.
Finally, all Daygame people, including Todd, say that Daygame is the purest form of game. In Clubs you can “cheat” by seeming popular or interacting with people. In Daygame, you either have to be Top Guy or you get no results. Plus, the guys who do Daygame talk about how much better they become in clubs and social environments when they have Daygame experience. They believe in themselves much more because any results they got it is not because their friends introduced them to girls or they are popular in the venue, it is them 100%, so their confidence becomes independent of the external world. I can feel that too. Yes, Daygame hurts but man now when I deal with people at work or prospect with clients, I am not doing anything on purpose yet I am SO MUCH MORE CONFIDENT I almost intimidate myself lol
Even K in his latest book talks about it: If you do not become a high value man, daygame will not work for you. So we are forced to become Top Guy.
Plus, the experience of meeting a girl who’s like “Yes? Who are you?” and within 5 minutes making her melt for you and be “in love” is true power. Taking a girl who starts a bit interested and building her emotions and sexual tension in the middle of the day, making her delay going to her meeting because she likes being around you so much, that feeling is addictive to be so desirable.
I am forced to become Top Guy. With Daygame, unless you fuck ugly girls, you are forced to become Top Guy or you will cry in your bed every night alone with so many opportunities that you cannot lead into sex.
Plus, Yohami, yesterday I went in front of a big school for nurses and met a lot of female nurses. And then in front of a Yoga workshop and met girls into Yoga. I feel I can choose the type of girls I want to meet much more than going to a club or group.
You bypassed all my points in that response, this is a very strange case of cognitive dissonance.
“Honestly I don’t think “Top Guy” is that common”
We’re not talking about the purest archetypical top guy – but the basic thing women find attractive, even in small dosis.
Every group has at least one top guy (by definition, as groups are hierarchical). How many groups are out there? how is this uncommon?
“so going to clubs or whatever I will just be exposed to Bottom Guys.”
It’s not about ‘what you think’, it’s about what is.
Going to the places where the girls are going to find alpha dick, will show you the nature of women when they are aroused, and teach you how they behave, and the kind of game they do respond to. Just by watching. Same with groups.
Can you see that during day in the street? No?
No.
“No Pain, No Gain.”
Pain doesn’t mean gain. Focus on the Gain. Where can you GAIN more?
Which is more bottom guy?
Pain?
or Gain?
“Daygame is the most painful type of game that exists, so it must be the best growth opportunity”
The best growth opportunity is anyplace where you have a lot of cheap opportunities to learn the right things.
In daygame you don’t have any measure of what are the right things.
Unless you have an onsite mentor. If you do, more power to your daygame.
If you’re alone, what bar do you use to measure against? how do you create the winning loop?
What’s preventing you from doing 1000 more approaches while making the same exact mistake?
“Finally, all Daygame people, including Todd, say that Daygame is the purest form of game.”
And Christians say Christ is the path.
You’re not getting it man :-)
The purest form of game is one that doesn’t require a system. One where you are just being you, flirting with a woman, enjoying yourself. So.
WHO ARE YOU?
The qualities that you must convey during pickup – where do you acquire these? why do you have a bottom guy in you to begin with? how do you get rid of it for real?
What does it have to do with what time of day you pickup?
How do you become the kind of man who is attractive?
What does that man look like?
What’s even preventing you from being that man?
“Yes, Daygame hurts but man now when I deal with people at work or prospect with clients, I am not doing anything on purpose yet I am SO MUCH MORE CONFIDENT I almost intimidate myself”
Good for you – that part is good
“Even K in his latest book talks about it: If you do not become a high value man, daygame will not work for you.”
YES.
“So we are forced to become Top Guy.”
Except you can’t be ‘forced’ into it. Guess who’s forced into things? bottom guy.
So how do you BECOME a top guy?
“[…] that feeling is addictive to be so desirable.”
Sure but you’re not doing it. Not for real. Why?
“With Daygame, unless you fuck ugly girls, you are forced to become Top Guy or you will cry in your bed every night alone with so many opportunities that you cannot lead into sex”
So why are you choosing a path that is full of pain and crying and scarcity?
That setup is a nest for bottom guy to grow into more bottom guyness. Crying in scarcity has nothing to do with top guy frame.
“I feel I can choose the type of girls I want to meet much more than going to a club or group.”
So are you able to choose them? how many of them did you bang?
Yohami, the most “Top Guy” in Daygame I can think of is James Marshall. And he also gets rejected a lot.
Can you see this video and say what he might be doing wrong from Bodylanguage / Top Guy frame?
Or maybe it doesn’t matter, a majority of rejections even if you do things right is the nature of the game?
https://youtu.be/wk6Qcc7rx5U?t=3m17s
What makes you see him as top guy? really curious.
Well, his story is cool, he is a musician. He also left Australia and gave himself to a monastery in Asia to become a master at Kung Fu and meditate every day. Then came back to the “Western” world and start doing pickup without learning Game. And how all other PUAs say how he is the same exact person when with them, or teaching a seminar or with women.
K hates him. He says he doesn’t have game, is cheating with his looks, that his looks are what make him get the girls.
But really, when James does not get rejected, he is very good. What do you think of this?
He’s pathetic, K got this right.
But what makes you see him as top guy?
Measure the attributes
Dominance?
Swagger?
Commanding?
Taking space?
Body language?
Teases her?
Roleplay?
Takes opportunities?
Deals with walls?
This guy is a tall long haired BEGGAR. He’s at the bottom of every tribe he joins and has no intention of moving up. The opposite of top guy.
But how is he passing as top guy for you?
He seemed to be an embodiment of The Blueprint: unreactive, drawing state from within, in his own way, he was also screening her and challenging her (the girl from Serbia). He teased her about looking like a girl from a harem, about being a gypsey, and told her to calm down calm down before she asked to give him her number. She asked to give him her number, so a girl viewed him as Top Guy, so he had at that moment Top Guy in him.
Him taking opportunities and dealing with walls, I do not understand that deeply enough to spot it.
Aight – so the guy is doing 10% right. The 10% are the teases you mentioned. But he doesn’t take these anywhere. Then he says he wants to be in a gym so he can watch her cycling which is bottom guy creepy rapist territory. The few inches of things he does right plus his looks can give him a % of success. But
Horrible body language
Non commanding
Doesn’t lead anywhere with the teases the initiates
Robot emotionless dead inside
Passive
Reacts to the girl EVERY TIME, he’s a puppet
Pathetic, I could barely watch it.
That these are your heroes in Daygame illustrates clearly the problem I keep pointing at.
You’re so far from the path you can’t see what’s actually going. You need more exposure to both women, and winner men, so you can see the dance firsthand, so you can get something to emulate. Without a reference, how do you know where go grow towards to?
Like in the Torero video. Right when he’s leaving the girl he picked up makes a sad face with disgust, and the client that Torero called sister responds with a shocked face. The end result is that he blew that and made everyone uncomfortable including the girl he picked up. And all while he was at it, look at his body, check what he’s doing with his legs, see how he’s curved, like needy, pervy, weak, crawling. There are a couple of positive things in what he did, specially his ‘commanding voice’, but he doesn’t flirt with the girl, he doesn’t invite her. His whole move there was to find a wall to crush and press against it to bring its defenses down. He’s doing all that ON the girl, not WITH the girl. Can you spot that?
Then the guy shares this and a lot of people says “balls” and “hero” wtf is going on :-D
That girl never picked up his calls. Dead lead. He blew it.
But how do you know?
You need a reference to compare so you know when a girl IS resposive, IS compliant, IS aroused, IS receptive. How do you get exposed to that?
You could do what Torero did in that video every day of your life and get a number. And you’ll still wont know what a girl looks like when she’s into it.
[You need a reference to compare so you know when a girl IS responsive, IS compliant, IS aroused, IS receptive. How do you get exposed to that?]
You are very correct Yohami.
I have no reference to really get how how a girl is when she is really responsive and aroused and compliant. Literally, zero. Or maybe just some ex GFs when they’re going to have an orgasm in bed, but I wasn’t aware enough to pay attention and know how that really makes her be.
Im watching more of that guy – like Jon Matrix, he’s infinitely better when he’s not interacting with girls. Funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px9bU92DWNs
Better body language, tone, he tells stories, looks self amused, is in command. Inches – but inches count. Compare him against himself when he’s with a girl. That difference is his fear – he’s positioning under the girl.
Anyway – here in this video he talks about the ‘practice doesn’t make perfect’ but “PERFECT practice makes perfect”
In other words you must be doing the right things, and practice dong the right things, to get perfect.
Which is how “years of suck” lead nowhere.
Now all he has to do is practice being this guy more, then try to convey this guy when he’s on dates. He’ll get so much better, too.
I was watching Krauser’s Black Book, and in it he talked about this: if you don’t try to fuck a girl on your date, she’ll never forgive you. Girls don’t forgive guys who do not take their sexual chances.
Well, so I understand my mistake now. It is not the girl’s fault that they ghosted on me after the dates, I was too “patient”, too much of a “good person”.
The actress who I insta dated told me: “You are a beautiful person inside”. The virgin girl told me she loves my “Chivalry”. The writer girl told me: “I want to become like you, you’re my ideal.” But that is all fucking asexual, all those girls now went silent. It is my fault.
Well, the girl who I met in the rain did not see that side of me. I noticed what arouses her: Dominance. At one point, she said something, and I was judging her (It happened truly, not a technique), and I looked at her with a harsh intense eye, and I noticed that spiked her emotions a lot and she did the same thing with her eyes playfully.
This girl is DTF. I am going to go for fucking her. I am losing girls anyway, I’d rather lose them by being a man than by being an asexual little bitch.
Anyway, I am retyping the conversation and also adding the updates:
Me: Mr Blue
Her: :)
Me: I am listening to my favorite music and reading a cool story.
Me: [Photo of my music and the book I am reading]
Her: Nice
Me: They should write a book about our meeting in the rain today. It was romantic. ;)
Her: :D
Me: When are you free this week? I’ll take you out.
Her: Friday
Me: We meet 16h Friday in front of McDonald’s ;)
(I think this is what pissed her off, I just wanted to meet her in front of McDonald’s because it is an easy place to find, maybe she was like “wtf, is this guy so Bottom he’s taking me to McDonald’s where it is sure that sex won’t happen?!” I think this was the problem with the text conversation.)
[Silence for two days]
Me: Ready for today?
Her: Hello
Her: For me, better tomorrow
Her: Today, is a very busy day
Her: :(
Me: What time tomorrow? I want to try the new bar near McDonald’s
Her: 7PM
Me: Ok. (1) don’t make plans after our date. (2) do not wear heels.
Me: See you tomorrow 7PM ;)
Her: [Very happy smiley]
——
I said “do not wear heels” because 7PM is quite early. I am going to take her someplace first, then we will walk like 5 minutes to the lounge bar. If she is falling all over because of heels, I won’t enjoy it.
Plus, that (1) do not do this, (2) do not do that is me being a BOSS.
This is shit game
“Me: Ok. (1) don’t make plans after our date. (2) do not wear heels.
Me: See you tomorrow 7PM ;)”
Do you know why?
I do not know why.
It seemed to me super Top Guy, because: I am telling her what to do. I am solving problems before they happen: so she will not say I had plans with my friends at 9PM or whatever, and falling around in heels will not be sexually exciting.
“I am solving problems before they happen”
Do you see it now?
What are you interacting with there?
I know. Walls.
Bingo.
So after you blew it, you were able to recover and do a call to action and she said YES.
YES is compliance. You have to REWARD her compliance.
Instead you made up new imaginary walls and went to crash on those, trying to top-guy them. The result is that you punished her compliance.
Because of this, you’ll be shit tested :-)
Live and learn man.
If she does come to the date: bang her.
If I may add (as a peer, a fellow Yohami student ;)
High heels are very sexual, not only for us guys but also the girls, they feel much sexier with them (adds to the ramp to fuck). So you making it LESS sexual by telling her that.
(Side story: I once in a party at home asked everybody to put their shoes off – two girls refused outright. They’d first drop the panties and everything and the heels last.)
If she’s falling, rescue her. I’ve done it with KGB agent: literally swept her off her feet and carried her across a puddle (I fancy slim or petite girls, so she was not too heavy). I know, it’s cheesy – but she loved it so much.
If V2 is too far away, call a cab. You can afford it and protect her, if not yourself, by delegation.
[Me: What time tomorrow? I want to try the new bar near McDonald’s]
I wouldn’t ask her. I see your caring and making sure everything fits but it’s stronger to suggest. She will let you know if she can’t make it at all otherwise adjust (assuming attraction is there – and you have to assume that with Top Guy frame). You lead her.
The second part sounds like an insecure wish. You are the man, you just make it happen. I guess the new thing is ok, makes her curious. Letting her know the bar is near is also part of your caring in advance. So
Blue: Tomorrow 8 pm ok
Blue: We’ll try a new bar
I like Fuckboy Tim’s cure for texting: “Remove all question marks for a certain time, and then only use them very sparingly” but to be not 100% commanding (which may also be good) added the ok but without question mark.
Girls explicitly told me in the past that they like how I lead them and organize everything, and you had the same with the girl in the rain.
[If she does come to the date: bang her.]
She did not show up to the date. No bang.
I let her go.
Yohami:
(1) Those are MY walls. Not her walls. So in my mind, I am being Top Guy. I set boundaries. It is part of dominance. She showed compliance.
(2) I am not coming from the frame of making this girl like me at all. I am just moving towards sex. Moving things forward. So not sure why what I do will be Bottom Guy if I am not coming from a Bottom Guy frame.
(3) If she doesn’t come to the date, I’ll let her go. It’s fine. I am getting rejected all the time anyway, so her not coming to the date will hurt a bit but I’ll soon be getting new rejections that make me forget her ;)
I honestly do not think it is good for me to focus on my mistakes. That implies I am Bottom Guy and does not help me become Top Guy.
I like how in that interaction I did not do beta ramps, I did not seek for rapport, I was the boss in text not expecting her to reply.
I even let go of her so well that after I pinged her today after 2 days of silence, I deleted my chat with her as a true way of letting her go.
Plus, every inch of top guy matters. I’ve got multiple inches of Top Guy that soon will be inside her ;)
Pay attention, closely:
“(1) Those are MY walls. Not her walls.”
Exactly. You’re dealing with walls that are not there. You’re setting conditions for problems that haven’t happened. This is BOTTOM FRAME.
You’re putting walls when she was in compliance. You have to reward her compliance instead.
“So in my mind, I am being Top Guy. I set boundaries.”
You’re setting boundaries when no transgressions have happened = so you introduced the transgressions. As a result, she’ll do transgressions to follow ‘that lead’
This is like when Nash creates resistance by roleplaying he’s a wolf and she’s a bunny. Here you’re creating a roleplay that the interaction is difficult, when it was not.
This is not top guy, this is bottom guy.
” It is part of dominance. ”
No. That’s ‘domineering’. You’re going for frame clash, thus creating frame clash.
“She showed compliance.”
She sent you a smiley. She also sent a smiley to your book romantic line. Compliance / arousal would be “hahahah” or a verbal “I will”.
“(2) I am not coming from the frame of making this girl like me at all. I am just moving towards sex. Moving things forward. So not sure why what I do will be Bottom Guy if I am not coming from a Bottom Guy frame.”
Punishing her compliance is bottom guy. Going for frame clash is bottom guy. Assuming there will be problems that you are proactively going forward to fight is bottom guy. You’ve done it before, you’re doing it here.
“I honestly do not think it is good for me to focus on my mistakes.”
ABSOLUTELY WRONG
You need to look at yourself frontally in order to fix things.
This is also why daygame is shit if you’re a newbie. You need to understand what you’re doing wrong, and going solo isolates you from real world feedback and nothing to compare against and no reference of what a proper winner positive loop would look like. You have to look at yourself frontally, understand what’s the opening, and the wall, or understand what’s the opportunity, so you can take it.
In this case she showed compliance: the proper action is REWARD. TAKE HER.
If she comes to the date, she will also show compliance at some points: and when she does so you have to escalate and TAKE HER.
Instead of coming up with walls of your own and fighting them.
Look back at all the frame clash you’ve created with all the girls. You’re putting it here. You think that’s ‘top guy’ because you go on a power trip or something. But you’re fighting an imaginary dragon.
” That implies I am Bottom Guy and does not help me become Top Guy.”
Look straight.
“Plus, every inch of top guy matters. I’ve got multiple inches of Top Guy that soon will be inside her ;)”
Best of luck :-)
So I checked out my phone now, and I found a missed call from the girl I set a date up with tomorrow.
So I was like “Oh shit! This might be what Yohami is talking about
[Because of this, you’ll be shit tested :-)
Live and learn man.]
I was like: “Oh man, she’s calling to cancel the date tomorrow. But hey, you live and you learn.”
So I sent this:
Me: Hey little tanned gym girl, did you call me? ;)
Her: Mistake
Me: It was a good mistake. Bye bye (Thumbs Up Emoji)
Her: ;-)
—–
So I rewarded even her mistake because it is chasing and so is good for Top Guy.
Or maybe it will turn out to be Bottom Guy because I am rewarding a mistake or making it seem special that she calls me by mistake.
In all cases, I still feel she is DTF. So my Top Guy cock is still ready to manifest into her mouth ;-)
:-D oh man.
“Me: Hey little tanned gym girl, did you call me? ;)”
6 flirts in one text!
“Me: It was a good mistake. Bye bye (Thumbs Up Emoji)”
Lol!
Cut your investment to 10%.
—————————-
Me: Did you call me?
Her: Mistake
Me: That’s what she said
—————————
Compare?
“Hey little tanned gym girl” = I remember, I remember, I care, I care, I really care, I can list all your attributes, I care! and I even wink for no reason!! ;-) :) :-) ._) X-)
“Mistake” is again a very LOW investment from her. Your reply is to invest a lot of sweet sweet sweet sweeeet cream on top. Why not send more emojis?
The emojis are useful when you’re calling to action or flirting. You’re sending emojis to be nice
Why?
I was copying you. I guess doing stuff without understanding is stupid lol
Also, you said that when I talk about her, it spikes her emotions. So I thought I would talk about her. I did not mean it as listing her attributes but talking about her. You wrote before when you were explaining something “Hey little nerd ;)” So I thought I was doing something similar.
I am sending emojis to make it flirty rather than being monotonous.
Also, in this specific set, I do not think the girl is sending low investment texts. Yes, they are short. But when I met her, she was not a talkative girl BUT she reacted hugely in emotional ways to what I said and did.
So my bet with this specific girl is that what I am doing is making her react emotionally and invest emotionally even if her responses are low text investments.
Well, in my mind I am higher status than her. I imagine I am making her go into an emotional roller coaster with my texts and her short responses are because she is too intimidated to write more, not because it is a low investment.
Notice that she is not shit testing me or putting walls. So my guess / bet that she is shy and I am giving her emotional spikes MAY BE true. That is my theory and what caused my texts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G60Am7ArEQI
Fuckboy Tim on Top Guy frame and shit tests – this guy gets it
[No. That’s ‘domineering’.]
Yohami, honestly thinking about it deeply, I do not know exactly the difference between dominance and domineering.
Dominance is setting the path, the rules, doing the call to a actions, telling her what to do, with a clear goal and control.
Now break that into a million contradictory pieces, add nagging and micromanaging and feminine energy and you get ‘domineering’. It becomes dominance for the sake of it. Girls do it all the time and it’s a form of shit testing, the objective is simply to see if they can dominate you, but there’s no real goal, example when the girl tells you to ‘shave your beard’. The point is not to have you shaved, but to see if she can command you.
When you’re actually dominant you don’t need to ‘see if you can command her’, you simply command her. When she’s compliant you reward her, when she’s not compliant you punish her.
When she said yes to the date, and you added a couple of extra rules on top of her compliance, you made the situation more ‘difficult’. You didn’t do so to reward her, and didn’t do so to arouse her, you’re ‘micromanaging’ her compliance without even acknowledging her first.
The actual things you asked, can still be asked, you can still tell her to do these things and be ‘top guy’, but first reward
You: Excellent ;-)
Or
That’s the reward for her compliance. Then you can say the other stuff. Do you want her to dress sexy?
You: Excellent, dress sexy ;-)
Do you want to make sure she doesn’t make other plans?
You: Excellent
You: I want you for me the whole night ;-)
That above is taking the opening somewhere – as opposed to dealing with walls. Telling her what to do – without conflict.
All the conflict comes from bottom guy trying to fight it’s way into the girl.
Yohami, this is Liam McRae which is a student of James Marshall who became a Daygame teacher.
I think he sucks. This is a bad approach and weird too. I am much better than this, in my honest opinion.
I also do not think this girl will message him back. There were some emotional spikes there, but it is probably his looks working for him.
That shit of the girl telling him: Facebook is better than giving you my number, that shows she will never respond. She only gave him her number because girls are submissive and do not want to confront men.
His body language was pretty feminine and weird too. And his questions show no social skills.
What do you think?
This one is AWESOME looool
He met a girl who is “Top Guy” and he was the feminine energy in this set. Yes, it ended up in a kiss, but probably he was receiving the kiss from a dominant woman rather than being Top Guy about it.
I guess like you say Yohami, if we’re learning Daygame from such losers, no wonder we’re not progressing as fast as we could.
I can’t watch this stuff! X-)
Watched it a couple times – most likely fake.
Besides all the asexual kissing everywhere before the actual kiss (wtf was that), note the several camera angles – there are 4 cameras around them, and none of them captured the actual kiss.
Also note the incongruence – when the guy is talking to the girl he’s more of a girl himself – is that what you meant with ‘being like her?’, then when he’s alone talking to the camera his feminine energy is gone and he’s a fake / psycho scammy frail shaky weirdo who doesn’t have a clue of what he’s talking about. At least he is BETTER impersonating a human being when he’s with girls than when he’s alone (which is an improvement)
Liam is teaching men how to become more masculine and more “Top Guy” ;)
https://www.thenaturallifestyles.com/masculine-touch-blueprint-vip
He teaches good stuff. Too bad he doesn’t embody it in his Daygame.
Also, he does make his voice low volume on purpose. Is that good?
https://youtu.be/V3Z4Nq0OrrM?t=24m55s
No, that guy should be in prison (after her refunds all the money)
Yohami, what do you think of these two things Icy Seducer wrote?
“PUA guys game other guys and if you’re not a PUA guy you’ll be persuasion oblivious and rather gullible indeed. […]
That he makes you aware of a problem, and then provides you with the solution, is a classic approach to grasping your prolonged attention. You see, he wants a following. He doesn’t just want to impress you. He wants to convert you. He isn’t a cult leader but it’s that type of thinking but much milder and more acceptable.”
AND
“That aside though, seduction is real. You can learn it and benefit from it, and actually, the only thing weirder than a guy learning how to pick up women, is a guy not learning how to pick up women.
In the opening pages of Neil’s book, he dedicates it to the thousands of women he talked to, presumably while out gaming, and he lists the locations as: clubs, bars, subways, malls, grocery stores, airports, and elevators (not in that order). He mentions that was over a period of two years.
Now as a professional pick up artist I can tell you that once your approach count gets into the thousands you become a forever changed man. Take note though, because even if he has slept with 500 women, that would still be a success rate of well below 50%. Just having a little understanding of math here in this brief little portion of the beginning of his book can help you get a grasp of the real reality of the situation. Many self-proclaimed professional seducers claim to be able to seduce any woman they want and that would be a 100% success rate if it were true.
You can easily tell from their approach count to lay count ratio whether that is true or not and let me just tell you, it is not. I’ve lived in a PUA mansion and I’ve seen the best of them get rejected. That doesn’t mean seduction isn’t real though. It just means getting rejected is part of seduction, just like getting knocked the fuck out is part of being a boxer, unless you’re Floyd Mayweather. Oh, and don’t let that example fool you into thinking it’s possible to be an infallible seducer because Floyd is an infallible boxer. He would get knocked the fuck out by the best heavyweight.
Rejection isn’t akin to getting knocked out though. It’s actually closer to being about as frequent as simply getting punched in a boxing match. Pick up artists get rejected a lot if they are approaching a lot. If they are not approaching a lot, they are either burned out, or are theoretical pick up artists like David De Angelo.”
Bottom frame trying to understand the pyramid.
Yohami, how does what you teach about “Top Guy” relate to Swinggcat’s Masculine Polarity course?
Did you learn from it? Did it inspire you? Do you contradict it?
Yohami and Nash, what do you think about what Icy Seducer said in this post?
“In my system of thought on seduction, a portion of it is about self-deception, self-delusion, and illusions, because these are commonplace among self-proclaimed seducers. They in a way have to do a number on themselves psychologically in order to access the required ongoing confidence necessary for success.
This brings me to one of my concepts and I named it, ‘pigeon superstition,’ after an experiment performed by B.F. Skinner. In the experiment, pigeons are kept in a box and given food at random times. After a while, the pigeons begin exhibiting superstitious behaviour.
For example they might turn around quickly on the spot because food was dropped when they did that before. Something very similar happens with famous pick up artists. They will swear by little tricks of body language and things like that.
For example Mystery has a thing where he has his back facing the woman and he turns only his head to the side to speak to her over his shoulder. When he taught that he was absolutely sure it raised his value because it supposedly made him seem less available.
Whether him doing that has a significant impact on the outcome or not depends on many factors but quite a few people mock him for his strong belief in it as a technique. Richard La Ruina has a similar idea, where if he is sitting down and a woman is sitting next to him, he will talk to her from over his shoulder by turning his head but not his body.
Supposedly, if he were to turn his entire body, he would seem overly interested in her. Now on paper, that sounds like it has some truth to it. It sounds logical, but I’ve had success by doing the exact opposite.
What I think this comes down to is a judgement call. You have to make a judgement call: should you show interest or lack of interest? You also have to consider that at times you might be engaging in pigeon superstition.
At those times you should just let it go and admit you don’t know. Importantly, you need to admit that to yourself. Many professional pick up coaches tell their students things they’ve made up but then have come to believe these things themselves through repetition and accidental self-persuasion.
You can end up like Mystery, where you have weird rules of behaviour that you think work like an algorithm to get you your desired result. Again this type of thinking requires judgement calls. Half of what you’re doing might be getting you less of what you want even though you think everything you’re doing is working in your favour.
If you can face that then you can have the malleability required to change your personality. Being able to change your personality, like an actor, is of utmost importance.
If you watch a film where you really like one of the characters, but then you see how the actor that played it behaves in real life and you see a huge disparity, you’ll understand the power of personality. Different personality = different outcome.
If you can’t change your personality you can’t gain the control you desire to have. If you have a malleable personality, you can incorporate new mannerisms, facial expressions, voice tonalities and inflections etc., into your persona.
You won’t always know what effect every little thing has and that’s part of the collateral damage involved in all of it.
One problem with that is the prevailing scientific worldview is that everything is an accident of physics, a fluke, and that there is no purpose, objective, or order to things. Now if that is true, then there can be no such thing as a disorder because there is no order.
Claiming that people are wrong, incorrect, or faulty, implies that there is an objective, purposeful, order to things and that some people are somehow broken and need fixing.
This concept is well known in novel writing theory. In novel writing theory it’s said that humans have a hardwired habit of looking for an order in things, purpose, and meaning. This is why stories with no order where there is no sense of morality and right and wrong underpinning the story tend not to do well.
There is a psychiatric book called the DSM manual and it’s often said that there isn’t anyone on planet Earth that wouldn’t fit the criteria for at least one of the categorised disorders within it. Some people have said it doesn’t categorise disorder but instead categorises everyday human suffering under the authoratative guise of psychiatry.
These kinds of things in the world are an expression of our yearning for there to be an objectively correct way to be. What is glossed over is that this is an expression of an unconscious belief in a type of divinity.
This unconscious belief in a divinity affects the way we process information. For example, if an animal has horns, we say they are for it to defend itself with. Well, some animals have horns that can’t be used effectively to defend themselves with, so what are those useless horns for? Also, why doesn’t a rabit have any horns? It could sure do with some.
Some people believe that things are more of a coincidence than that they have an intended purpose, which is more in line with the prevailing scientific worldview. Instead of the purpose of your feet being for walking, it’s more the case that they happen to be able to be used for walking.
This is a different type of thinking to what is usual. Mystery is heavily influenced by evolutionary psychology but you can poke a lot of holes in so called insights gained from it because there’s a lot of things that simply don’t make sense if you probe further.
You have to make a decision in your mind. Does everything make sense, have a purpose, an order, and a structure, or are things more based on coincidence with meanings assigned them by lifeforms?
Despite western society being decidedly atheist and materialist, it’s surprising how much unconscious theism is taking place unbeknownst to most people because they are just not conscious of the intricacies of it.
If people really knew what real atheism would be like to live by, they’d run for the hills rather than face that level of psychological chaos. We can do away with a man with a beard sitting on a throne above the clouds in the sky, but we can’t do away with our projecting of order onto things.
Without that ability we’d be unable to put things into a sequence. Regarding Mystery, he has made himself deluded, and that’s why he’s saying something as silly as he did to the therapist.
The truth is, a super attractive woman can have any straight man she wants, even if it’s only the once. This creates an insecurity in a lot of men and Mystery would love to think he holds that same power over women that they hold over men, somehow by training and honing weird skills he has invented in his mind, such as talking to them from over his shoulder.
The worldwide phenomenon of pick up artistry is an expression of our insecurity over our powerlessness in comparison to the alluring women of the world that wipe the floor with us.
Britney Spears has a song with a lyric that goes, ‘all around the world pretty girls wipe the floor with all the boys,’ and she is right on, as that is very true.
Realistically, seduction for a man is more akin to luck, however, not the superstition of luck. I have a more useable definition based on the famous phrase, ‘luck is when preparation meets opportunity.’
This is one of my rules and it’s named, ‘prepare for opportunities.’ There are lots of seduction opportunities in the world. Now, I am of the dark side and what I’m about to describe will show that quite strongly.
Two of the best looking girls I ever got with had certain vulnerabilities and that’s one of the big factors in my succeeding with them. One of them was exceptionally pretty and she went to an all girls high school where she got severely bullied, which crushed her self-esteem.
She got bullied for being too good looking but she hadn’t figured that out. I was able to capitalize on her low self-esteem. If she had known her worth, she’d not have settled for anything less than the top 0.1% of guys the world has to offer.
Another high quality girl I got with had been in an abusive relationship and the guy had convinced her she was ugly and dreadful. That was not the case at all and all I had to do was be the prince charming and be the one to restore her self-esteem and make her feel attractive again.
If either of those two girls hadn’t had their confidence rocked, they would have been too bitchy and up themselves to effectively charm.
For contrast, I approached a super model that knew her worth and she told me I’d need to be a multi millionaire male model with a Ferrari to have any chance with her.
This is what I mean by luck being when preparation meets opportunity. Remember my rule, ‘prepare for opportunities.’ When you meet a girl that is an absolute stunner and she doesn’t have visions of multi millionaire male models with Ferraris, for whatever reason, capitalize.
The examples I’ve just described explain how you can punch above your weight. A lot would have to go wrong in that Ferrari woman’s life for her to end up dating anything less than the type of guy she described.
There would be a way to seduce her from an unfavourable position in life but it would require organic circumstantial ongoing contact with her for a long period of time, giving you the chance to figure her out psychologically, but again that would be luck.
The luck of having regular contact with her through happenstance. That would be an opportunity, and how able you would be to use that opportunity would be down to your preparation.
It’s here that we’re meant to be persuaded that Mystery really could have seduced the therapist. Remember what I said about basic math? Well, if Neil approached thousands of women, even if he slept with as many as 500 of them, that’s still much less than a 50% success rate, so realistically, Mystery would have had at best a 50% chance at seducing the therapist.
Neil says that Mystery was the best in the world is a fact. He even says he met many self-proclaimed best seducers in the world but Mystery could, ‘out-game,’ them all. For the millions of men who hadn’t ever given this thing serious thought, the notion that there are weird people like Mystery that can, ‘out-game,’ people, like it’s a psychological chess match, must have been a persuasive one.
Those that take the pains to do thousands of approaches, if they manage to keep their head screwed on and not get their egos inflated by fanboys that tell them they’re amazing, will always know you simply don’t succeed with everyone.
In fact, you spend most of your time getting either blown out or deceived by women that pretend they like you and are really nice to you but then just store your number in their phone under a name like, ‘don’t answer.’
Take note of Neil’s choice of words. He mentions people that are self-proclaimed best in the world. That’s what they are, self-proclaimed, but that’s also what he is and he glosses over that issue by finger pointing at others who do the same.
This is so common in pick up. So many guys think they’re better than you and even that they’re the best in the world. It’s embarrassing when you’re smart enough to notice the psychology involved and you have to entertain these idiots.
If you do a thousand push ups in front of someone, all in a row, if they then get down and do one push up and try to say they are your equal, you will think they’re retarded as fuck. The equivalent of that happens in pick up all the time.
A beginner will see you say, ‘hi,’ to a girl, and then they’ll think, ‘That wasn’t anything special. I can say hi to a girl.’ What matters the most is consistency. Consistently breaking the ice with women you don’t know, when it’s possible to do so.
That isn’t something everyone can do. It requires discipline and development of it as a habit. Very few guys consistently talk to women they don’t know, in places like bars, clubs, and especially hard locations like grocery stores.
This brings me to a concept in modern seduction and it’s called, ‘lifestyle seduction.’ It is sometimes just shortened to, ‘lifestyle,’ but make no mistake, it’s a type of seduction and not simply about your lifestyle.
The reason I’m bringing it up is because one argument that would be made against my Brad Pitt and George Clooney example is that what both of them do is actually lifestyle seduction rather than classical seduction. With lifestyle seduction, the idea is that if you live the high life, drive sports cars, live in a mansion, wear designer clothes, and can afford all manner of luxuries and to be able to spend lots of money on women, they will be seduced by all of that.
So Neil and Mystery could simply say that while Brad Pitt and George Clooney can have almost any woman they want through their lifestyle seduction, they would be able to seduce women without all that and so therefore they are more legitimate seducers.
Against that, I would say the reason Brad Pitt and George Clooney have those lifestyles is because they managed to seduce their way to the top of their field, which is acting, and there might not be anything more seductive than acting.
Just look at people like Scarlett Johansson and Leonardo Di Caprio with their legions of fans. Take Tom Cruise, for example, where if you see him go on a talk show, the women of the audience all go mad and scream.
If Neil or Mystery go on a talk show, they’re likely to get booed and at best get a courtesy applause, if they’re lucky.
If you go to a posh nightlcub, especially a members only one, you should run into a seductress at some point, and she will be some type of socialite. Make no mistake, she will be desirable and if you are somehow her mark, for whatever reason, you’re getting seduced, buddy.
She won’t be as good as Scarlett Johansson, though. So the question is, is it Johansson’s fame and lifestyle or is she better than the unknown members only nightclub frequenting seductress? I would argue that Johansson is better on the grounds that she’s managed to seduce the whole world.
You need to sort out some degree of hirearchy in your mind for all this stuff. If you don’t do that, you’ll be very confused. Justin Bieber has tens of millions of mostly female followers on Twitter. No matter how great you think you are, you’re not as good as him.
Yeah, you can do all kinds of mental acrobatics in order to find a way to believe you’re better than him but that’s just self-deception. Justin Bieber doesn’t even say he is a seducer or talk about theory. He just does it and it doesn’t even look like that’s what it is, but that is what it is.”
This was good:
“Obviously, Neil was very psychologically stable, and it was Mystery that was the nut, hence why he was able to come up with his seduction system in the first place. It’s often the case that a nut will invent something and then sane people will learn it.
This is because nuts go into altered states of consciousness where they gain access to ideas. The ideas are usually plays on things they’ve learned but creatively skewed or given a new interpretation to. It’s very rare that a crazy person will come up with something entirely new that isn’t based on something that already exists.
The same holds true for sane people that use drugs to achieve this. With this knowledge in mind, you can figure out a clever plan of action. If you’re sane and you don’t have epiphanies every five seconds, you can find someone who does.
If you’re slightly eccentric, one key to your success is to study a lot because your ideas will be based on what you already know, and therefore the more you can know the more and better ideas you will have.
I don’t recommend you use drugs because of how much can go wrong with that. You’d need to know what you’re getting into and have all the right rationales for exactly what you’re doing with them.
Notice I just used the word, ‘rationales.’ This is an important concept because if you don’t have the right rationale for what you’re doing, you will likely not gain from it what you are meant to be gaining from it, and you will probably quit as well.
If you’re told to approach thousands of women so you will gain technique, you will probably quit because to be honest you gain barely any technique from doing that. It’s more the case that you’ve either already got the common sense not to make stupid mistakes while doing it or you don’t.
What’s more, no one is going to spoon feed you about what they consider obvious and don’t even have to think about because they just know it. For example, I had one student that would stand right up against women, getting in their faces, as he was interacting with them. I had to tell him to give them some space and I felt like I shouldn’t have had to explain that.
There are lots of similar little screw ups that exist and I consider it beneath me to have to explain them, but I will do on occasion because it helps some people.
Going back to the rationale thing, if you’re told you’re to approach thousands of women so you can persuade at least some of them to have sex with you, then you’re on to a winner, because you won’t be worried about and focused on the development of technique, which for the most part doesn’t much happen.
It’s more that you already have the sense required to persuade a small few of the women you approach to sleep with you. You will discover underlying principles, concepts, theories, hypotheses, loose ideas, interpretations, and other intellectual things like that but much of it won’t be about how to get someone’s attention and how to hold it.
Once you can do that it won’t change a lot because it’s already very basic. What will change is your ability to get over failures, rejections, and abuse. What will also change is your level of detachment.
You’ll be fine to go in for a kiss, knowing you might get slapped or pushed away, ruining your relationship with that particular girl, because you’ll know to just move on to the next one and basically just think she was a dickhead.
You develop an attitude more than you develop techniques and skills. The techniques and skills are already in you because you’ve seen a thousand films full of interactions, including intimate ones and their setups.
Any women that don’t like you, are you detractors. You mustn’t care for them. You must feel disdain for them. If you respect and admire the women that categorically dislike you, you will be damaged by that.
Figuratively speaking, you must lower your temperature in regards to them. You cannot hold emotional warmth towards them. If you don’t hold this warmth, and are cold to them, some of them will feel effects because it will show in your non-verbal communication and that will affect them in some ways.
They may even begin to like you in a strange way because of it, but that is not the aim of it. You must have the right aim. You must not intentionally dislike someone in order to make them like you, because that is your still liking them in disguise.”
This reminds me of your teachings Yohami:
“One good thing about being an Englishman, is you already know about status because you understand class as a result of your cultural conditioning.
This comes in handy in your dealings with women because women naturally know about status and are on the lookout for it. Unfortunately, with the way their mind works, only a small percentage of men will ever have any luck with them, unless things somehow change, evolutionarily, in a way that affects their psychology.
With the way they think, for example, let’s say Star Trek was real. Well, in Star Trek your status is shown by how many studs you have on your collar. The more studs you have, the higher your rank. Well, I assure you, if this was Star Trek, the women would be very interested in how many studs you have on your collar.
If you didn’t have any at all, making you of no rank and of almost no importance, women would shun you, buddy. You’d have to come up with something really creative to get around that and you possibly wouldn’t be able to and would instead either have to attain rank or forego any success with women.
If, magically, it was made so that every guy was conventionally good looking, by mathematical proportional standards, and had the same amount of money and status as every other guy, women would find a way to isolate a small few men as being special. They just would find a way…
The equality would not last. Women don’t want things to be level. They want an imbalance. They want a disproportionate amount of something, anything, in order to feel attraction and have something to aim for.”
[If you can’t change your personality you can’t gain the control you desire to have. If you have a malleable personality, you can incorporate new mannerisms, facial expressions, voice tonalities and inflections etc., into your persona.]
I think with this he means what you always teach Yohami, of doing what works with the specific girl, and not doing what is not working with the specific girl.
He calls it in another place “acting” as well. But it is doing what the girl responds to in every level and not doing what she does not.
He gets closer to make valid statements but all is pampered from bottom frame, so there’s a lot of bs injected to close the gap. Would take me 500 comments to dissect it. Pass.
“The equality would not last. Women don’t want things to be level. They want an imbalance.”
So what do MEN want? do they want equality, or an imbalance?
Bottom frame man, bottom frame. To the core.
@Yohami
Hey, man, whatsw up? Quick question for the master.
There’s one lovely Venezuelan girl I’ve been checking for some days in a course werew both taking. I want to take her out, because we’ve been having some good eye contact (strong), and we’ve shared some laughs, there was good kino (not sexually, but kino nonetheless), smiles, etc., a lot of IOIs.
Do you think isit best I invite her to have a drinh when I see here again (probably 15 days from now) or do you think it’s OK if I send her a message / audio saying I think she’s a cute girl and that I want to take her out to get to know her bit more? You would have probably invited her already, or maybe you’d have escalated a little bit more, but in this course we were all together in a recording studio and there was not a lot of room to navigate there.
PS: No reply yet from the Cuban girl. Maybe she’s playing sith Mario’s dick, haha.
Hugs!
Sorry for the spelling, this cellphone is doing really bad.
Yeah man take her out and bang her.
Stick to a cleaner call to action, “hey [nickname] want to go out for drinks?” or “let’s go out for a drink”
And save this kind of emotional stuff for after sex “I want to get to know you better” for after sex
There are exceptions of course but “I want to get to know you” is you INVESTING emotionally, and has some ‘asking for permission’ on it. While “let’s go out for a drink” is just a command / invitation and will arouse her.
Get to know her better after sex. First pussy then relationship stuff, not the other way around.
“PS: No reply yet from the Cuban girl. Maybe she’s playing sith Mario’s dick, haha.”
Mario is history! she’s with Pedro and Carlos now. Manuel is cute too.
“recording studio”
Which one? El Pie? I went to a few studio masterclasses there
Hahaha, Pedro and Carlos. Sounds like black-Cuban-guys-with-huge-dicks names. She has a huge and lovely ass, so it’s appropriate.
I’ll send the Venezuelan girl an audio message today. Yeah, I was not 100% positive on the “get to know her better” part. I know it’s good sometimes, but not before pussy, apparently. A bit too Bottom Guy.
No, this one is a studio specialized in dubbing series and videogames. It’s in Palermo. I’m a videogame translator with a lot of experirexe in the industry and some good contacts; now I’m just exploring this world to see if I can act ;-)
Thanks, mate! I’ll come back here with the debriefing!
A text is better than an audio message
Yep, I sent her a text. Here you have the message exchange, let me know what you think:
ME: “Hey, compulsive hitter (she hit me like ten times when going to the bathroom and to the recording booth), how are you doing? It’s Dardo, from the dubbing course”.
SHE: “Hahahahaha, hey! Sorry for replying so late, I was working” (I think she’s one of those rare girls that don’t give a shit about her cellphone, but that’s my impression).
SHE: “How are you doing?”.
ME: “Haha, don’t worry, I’m also working”.
ME: “Hey, one of these days I’d like to invite you to have some beers ;)”.
ME: “I’ll pay, as long as you stop hitting me”.
SHE: “Hahaha, ay, I’m sorry!”.
SHE: “Yes, sure, we can go” (Spanish: “Seguro que si podriamos ir”).
ME: “For now, you’re forgiven ;)”.
ME: “Awesome. What’s your schedule. I see you work late shifts”.
ME: “This week I’m a bit busy, but the next one could be good”.
SHE: “Mmm, we can talk during the week if that’s OK with you! So we can plan it”. (Spanish: Mmm vamos hablando si te parece!! Y vamos cuadrando”.
ME: “Good, when I’m a free, I’ll write you and we can work it out ;)”.
SHE: “Awesome, perfect!!” (Spanish: Vale perfecto!!).
What do you think of that exchange, Yohami? I tried to tease a bit and reward her “mild” acceptance. If I’m not mistaken, there’s not “head against her walls”, right? Probably because she didn’t put any wall up. I wrote the Spanish version for you to clearly see what she wrote in the most important passages. That “podriamos” is a bit “mild”, right? The “mmm vamos hablando si te parece!!” also, but I may be wrong. I’m almost sure she didn’t expect me to write her.
If you see something good or bad in my exchange, please do let me know! I’m (we’re) here to learn. Maybe my “busy week” (which, in fact, it’s true; I’ve work and then I’m going to the beach for 3/4 days with some friends) put her off?
With the last line, I wanted to sound “Ok, you’re one of my options, I’m not dying to meet you, I’ve things to do and then we can meet and have a drink”.
The idea now is to throw some ice to the conversation (this is the first personal exchange we had; we’re in one WhatsApp group together with the other students) and wait until I come back from my trip to ping her again.
Hugs, master!
Dardo
I’d cut a few things in half but it was decent.
————————–
Here’s what happened:
ME: “This week I’m a bit busy, but the next one could be good”.
That’s you putting a wall. She is SUPER compliant, you could have taken her out last night. Instead you made it more difficult by pushing it for the following week and this requiring more planning and stuff. Here she’s objecting to it but willing to play along
SHE: “Mmm, we can talk during the week if that’s OK with you! So we can plan it”.
Or: you invited her out, she said YES, then you’re like “But not now! not that fast! this is not so simple! it’s more ‘complicado’ viteh!”
————————–
Breakdown
ME: “Hey, compulsive hitter, how are you doing? It’s Dardo, from the dubbing course”.
Good opener
SHE: “Hahahahaha, hey! Sorry for replying so late, I was working”
The ‘hahaha’ is arousal, she’s DTF. The ‘sorry’ is full compliance.
SHE: “How are you doing?”
She goes for rapport
ME: “Haha, don’t worry, I’m also working”.
Here you close the loop of her ‘sorry’, good. Because you’re rewarding her, a wink at the end of that line would work.
ME: “Hey, one of these days I’d like to invite you to have some beers ;)”.
This is shit game. “one of these days” is asking for permission to take her out, instead of actually asking her out. You’re softening the call to action, when all you need is the ramp of the opener. You get her ready then you call to action – don’t soften the call to action itself.
Also ‘one of these days’ is imprecise and muffled – you’re the one leading, your lead has to be strong.
Get used to go straight to the call to action after she has your attention, it will work better than this. Try my ‘when are you free? let’s go for a drink’ then let her respond.
ME: “I’ll pay, as long as you stop hitting me”.
This is triple shit game. You’re improving the offer and setting conditions before she even responds. Whenever you do a call to action, WAIT until she responds, before you add more stuff, more invitations, more offers, more accommodations. Put it out there, and let it be.
Also the second reminder that she hits you is now making you look dumb. You already touched the point and made her laugh – now you’re trying to get her out to fuck her, no need to go back to the opener.
SHE: “Hahaha, ay, I’m sorry!”.
She keeps with the ‘sorry’, now replying to your second reminder that she hits you. Noise.
SHE: “Yes, sure, we can go”
This is a YES and has to be rewarded. If you had asked for the ‘when are you free, I’ll take you out’ she’d have replied with a day, which means you are having sex.
ME: “For now, you’re forgiven ;)”.
See how that double ping is creating noise – here you should have rewarded and taken her
ME: “Awesome. What’s your schedule. I see you work late shifts”.
“Awesome” is a reward for her compliance, good
“What’s your schedule” now finally you’re asking for her free time, this is why the ‘one of these days’ was asking for permission, you threw that in instead of asking for the schedule directly
“I see you work late shifts” is shit game. Why? because ‘you care’ about her constraints before she has given you any, you’re stating out loud that you notice things in her you’re willing to accommodate to before she has even made a requisite of it. Her constraints are her problem, not yours. That’s why you ask for her free time. Let her do her part.
ME: “This week I’m a bit busy, but the next one could be good”.
ULTRA shit game. To the call to action, then shut up and wait. Here you kept talking and added constraints and obstacles. She may have been DTF that very moment or the day after, now you made a quick bang impossible. Why?
SHE: “Mmm, we can talk during the week if that’s OK with you!
See? confused girl. She was so DTF and you kind of invited her out, thought ‘nothing is that facil viteh’, now she has to work on this some more? which day did you want to take her out? did she even give you her free day? no?
ME: “Good, when I’m a free, I’ll write you and we can work it out ;)”.
And now you’re mirroring her, parroting back her frame to her. This was yours for the taking
SHE: “Awesome, perfect!!”
And she’s still DTF. They give you soooooooo many chances.
So, kudos to you for taking action.
——————————————
This is what the cleaner Game would look like
ME: “Hey, compulsive hitter, how are you doing? It’s Dardo”.
SHE: “Hahahahaha, hey! Sorry for replying so late, I was working”
SHE: “How are you doing?”.
ME: “Hah, don’t worry, Im great ;-) ”.
ME: “When are you free? let’s go out for a drink”
SHE: “Hahah yes, sure, we can go :-) Im busy tomorrow but Im free on tuesday”
ME: Cool, how about tuesday 8PM at Bar Caracas?
SHE: “Awesome, perfect!!”
ME: That’ll be fun ;-) I’ll text you
SHE: :D:D:D
—————————————–
See?
Haha, awesome analysis. Thanks, mate.
“Decent” is OK for me! A couple of months ago, that exchange would’ve been PURE SHIT! I’m evolving, and that’s good.
*[This is shit game. “one of these days” is asking for permission to take her out, instead of actually asking her out. You’re softening the call to action, when all you need is the ramp of the opener. You get her ready then you call to action – don’t soften the call to action itself]*.
— I know. When I finished the exchange and started analyzing it, I noticed so many stupid things. I was not overwhelmed by my stupidity, but I was sure I could’ve done better. The “one of these days” was the first mistake, very bland, very soft. Lesson learned! Be more precise, be more dominant, be more sure.
*[Get used to go straight to the call to action after she has your attention, it will work better than this. Try my ‘when are you free? let’s go for a drink’ then let her respond]*.
— I still can’t believe I didn’t use your magic line! I’m so stupid. I’ll use it next time ;)
*[This is triple shit game. You’re improving the offer and setting conditions before she even responds. Whenever you do a call to action, WAIT until she responds, before you add more stuff, more invitations, more offers, more accommodations. Put it out there, and let it be.
Also the second reminder that she hits you is now making you look dumb. You already touched the point and made her laugh – now you’re trying to get her out to fuck her, no need to go back to the opener]*.
— Completely on point. Lesson learned: when I throw the call to action, I’ll WAIT and remain silent. If she’s cooperative, I’ll reward; if she’s not cooperative, I’ll punish.
*[“I see you work late shifts” is shit game. Why? because ‘you care’ about her constraints before she has given you any, you’re stating out loud that you notice things in her you’re willing to accommodate to before she has even made a requisite of it. Her constraints are her problem, not yours. That’s why you ask for her free time. Let her do her part]*.
— Yes, on point again. I should have remained silent there. The exchange would be way better without that line. “Her constraints are her problem”, exactly! But the worst part is yet to come…
*[ULTRA shit game. To the call to action, then shut up and wait. Here you kept talking and added constraints and obstacles. She may have been DTF that very moment or the day after, now you made a quick bang impossible. Why?]*.
— I know, man, so lame! I just canceled myself, haha. Lesson super learned. Never again. Now that I think about it, I should’ve sent her a message later this week, when my logistics are going to be clearer and better. It seems I’m having issues with my “schedule”, right? The same happened with the Cuban girl; I sent her a message when she was travelling. Won’t happen again, Mario!
*[See? confused girl. She was so DTF and you kind of invited her out, thought ‘nothing is that facil viteh’, now she has to work on this some more? which day did you want to take her out? did she even give you her free day? no?]*.
— Yep, super visible there. I still she’s still determined to see each other (I don’t know if she’s DTF, but I know she’s determined to see what I can do on a date to then, possibly, fuck).
*[So, kudos to you for taking action]*.
— Thanks, man. A couple of months ago, I’d have done nothing. I’m evolving fast, I’m more confident than ever. 2018 is my year, I know. You made it look SO SIMPLE at the end with that clear exchange. Less is more, that’s another lesson to learn.
Thanks, Sensei. I’ll keep working!
Dardo
“Now that I think about it, I should’ve sent her a message later this week”
For a call to action, yes.
The best day to bang her is a tuesday (which is most likely free). The more you go near the weekend the closer you’re competing with her other offers. Which is fine if she’s 100% single (rarely) and / or you’re her best option (more likely if she’s giving you time).
Thursday is the second best option
Friday is most likely boyfriend territory. Saturday is for hanging out with friends (and meeting new guys). All this varies a lot. The idea is that the closest you get to the weekend the more likely you’re dealing with her other plans.
A casual minidate on a tuesday and a fuck date on thursday works nicely.
A date on a thursday (even without a minidate beforehand) means sex.
A date on a friday means she’s yours.
A date on a saturday means you’re the only person in her life.
Same applies to you (that’s how she sees you as well).
—————-
If you don’t plan to do an immediate call to action but you just feel like messaging her and flirting, you can do some light sexually charged rapport and push the call to action for later, example
ME: “Hey, compulsive hitter, it’s Dardo”
ME: “Look I don’t know what you’re drinking but my arm is swollen, you’ve got some serious muscle! ;-)”
HER: Hahahahaha (blah blah blah)
ME: Haha yeah. I may forgive you one day — (see this conditional?)
ME: What are you doing?
HER: Blah blah blah blah
ME: Cool, I was at XXX and blah blah but YY is better — (passing judgement is showing value)
HER: hahaha
ME: Hey let’s go for a drink later this week, cool?
HER: Sure we can go :-)
ME: Awesome (reward). I don’t know when Im free but probably thursday, I’ll ping you when I know
HER: Ok we can talk and plan some :-)
ME: Let’s do that. Ok I have to go work, kiss
HER: :-X
——–
So that’s some more rapport, ‘intense’ opener, which makes rapport happen, then you switch to a muffled ‘let’s do something sometime’ just to get her compliance and set the mood, and work on the logistics later
This is fine when you don’t know when you can take her out, but want to reserve some space in her busy cock festival.
She knows this so do you
Yohami, you are absolutely right. Every day, more and more of what you say makes sense.
I was wondering about this question today:
What is more powerful: being “normal guy” in behavior but being the center of the tribe, or being “Top Guy” in behavior but being on the edge of the tribe?
Concrete examples would be a man who is part of a small band but who has some bottom guy and some top guy, or a daygamer approaching girls in the audience with Top Guy behaviors but having no clear status in that environment?
Yohami, the fuckboy Tim has some really good new content:
I’ve been watching a lot of Fuckboy Tim lately. He’s really on point (Y)
“Game teaches you to overcome the act of being a loser” – Savage, I cosign, been saying this for 8 years :-D
“Im here at the bottom and here’s how I overcompensate to appear up here”
“but when you prioritize being attractive, girls see you differently”
My man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2lql10bgKY
Max killing it
“girls will tell you how they want to be pulled – listen”
Amazing video. Thanks for sharing. I’m an instant Max fan, haha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MY8iDHgf8w
Fuckboy Tim on how to focus on the opportunities and being surgical about repeating what specifically works – scroll to minute 9:00 and on
He’s killing it. After that piece of advice, he says “get a mentor”. I knew getting mentors was one of the most important things you could do, not only on game, but in life in general. That’s why I told you that if you come to Argentina some time, itdi be awesome to hang out!
Did you have a mentor in your time, man? I remember reading you here and you told us that at first you were close to some naturals and that you tried to absorb as much as you could, but did you have a proper mentor on game?
No mentors unfortunately, I had to grind.
But – once I switched from PUA to Player and started doing social game a lot, attempting to be the ‘cool guy’ of every group I joined, I met a lot of other ‘cool guys’ because every group has at least one. So I learned a lot just by watching. I’d be in a room and I wouldn’t be the most attractive guy there, but some other guy would be, right there in front of me. That’s enough if you pay attention.
Yohami
Thanks for all the texting advice above. It has been like finding gold.
I got my first street phone number last Friday afternoon (I mentioned I am a noob) on my way home from a sexy Brazilian student (Im in Oz). She had only been here 5 days when I approached her.
Hit her up via text on Monday night and things have gone ok. But we’ll see how things go..
She has (seemingly) tentatively agreed to a drink this Friday evening in the city centre. She is staying in the city and I work there. I also have a function on that evening which finishes at 7pm (which I havent mentioned).
Anyway, see below (I didnt include my little flirt after we first met on Friday – she replied well to that). I mentioned when we met – that we should go out for a drink sometime. That’s how I got her number.
(Monday night)
M: Hey sexypants ;)
H: Hi!!
H: :)
H: How are you?
M: Im good
M: Let’s go out for a drink soon
H: Yes! (she replied late, I had gone to sleep)
(Tuesday night)
M: Friday 8pm in the city. Sounds good?
H: Yes, which pub are you planning to go to?
M: Lets go to XXX rooftop
M: Meet in XXX mall first
She didnt reply to that. Albeit was getting late (she hadnt read prior to me going to sleep. I see she read when I checked this morning). So thats where its left now.
So from here what would you do about confirming the date?
Ping her on Thurs night saying something like:
M: Dress sexy so we match ;)
(?)
Many thanks
Some self analysis firstly:
I actually felt it was incorrect after sending (at the time) and more so now I skim through Yohami’s notes above.
I made the mistake here:
“M: Meet in XXX mall first”
The mistake was saying this directly after the first call to action:
“M: Lets go to XXX rooftop”
I should have just left it at:
“M: Lets go to XXX rooftop” (and WAIT)
I think it “muddies the waters” so to speak, jumps a step ahead, wasn’t required at all (can come later – less is more).
What do you think Yohami?
Cool. She’s DTF and doing a lot of compliance. Every time you reward her compliance her arousal peaks, you’re not rewarding her at all so you’re missing out and likely her arousal starts sliding down. Also she’s doing rapport and you’re ignoring it. You should rapport back even if it’s just to break it (breaking rapport is attractive)
—————————
“H: Hi!!”
VERY high energy. This is good.
“H: :)”
Very compliant from the start
“H: How are you?”
Going for rapport. All this is very feminine behavior, which is fantastic.
So the things to ping back are: 1) her high energy (you like that) 2) her compliance (reward it) and her rapport (even if just to break it).
“M: Im good”
This is addressing the rapport part only, so it’s missing 60% of her. What would have been better?
ME: Hey [energetic nickname] ;-) Im awesome, you?
I take her high energy and give her a nickname. I take the rapport to say Im awesome (hehe). I take her rapport and ping it back with a ‘you?’ but then I BREAK that rapport by switching themes and doing the call to action.
You did the call to action which is fine – it just needed to close the loops first.
“M: Let’s go out for a drink soon”
That’s decent. My default “when are you free? I’ll take you out” is better and actually going for the kill, which means she gets turned on. Even “when are you free, let’s go out for a drink” without question mark is better as we’re breaking rapport would kill it. Note how she will respond.
“H: Yes!”
This is full compliance (has to be rewarded). If you had asked for the time she’s free, she’d had come up with a date herself which means sex is happening. Because you said “soon” instead, now you have work more. You’re setting yourself up for work.
What I’d have responded here is “:-) When are you free?” The smiley rewards her compliance, and asking when she’s free makes her ‘reveal her cards’ without you having to do any chase. If she says a weekday she’s got a boyfriend. If she says friday you may become that boyfriend. If she says saturday you’re up for a ride.
“M: Friday 8pm in the city. Sounds good?”
This is decent. “in the city” lacks precision again (setting yourself up for work). She says yes, but then where and how? there’s no need to be this vague, this would have been better:
ME: Friday 8pm at pub Mercedes. Sounds good?
“H: Yes, which pub are you planning to go to?”
This is her third HARD COMPLIANCE, but she’s having to spoon the information out of you.
Focus on leading (needs to be clear, direct, clean, commanding) and rewarding her compliance when it happens. So figure out the stuff first and then take her there.
And every “Yes” of her needs to be acknowledged, with an awesome, cool, perfect, or an emoticon. Rub her compliance, it increases sexuality.
“M: Lets go to XXX rooftop”
Finally some call to action. It’s better to meet at the bar or the entrance (different logistics. If you know everybody meet at the door so she sees how everyone knows you when coming in. If you don’t know anybody, meet her inside so you have time to socialize and set the hierarchy properly)
“M: Meet in XXX mall first”
And now you sabotaged your own call to action.
She’s been in DTF mode all along so probably this wont kill the lead but – what are you doing? what’s the purpose of taking her to a mall. She asked which PUB you’re taking her (party girl, she’ll get dressed up, she’s already thinking how many drinks she’ll have and planning the sex ahead. Now you’re taking her to a mall? different wardrobe and shit? are you going to macdonalds?)
“M: Dress sexy so we match ;)”
What I’d do is cancel the mall, unless there’s a very specific reason of why that’s more optimal than meeting her at the pub (or picking her up somewhere)
Me: Nevermind the mall (long story) – meet me at XXX rooftop (simply restate the call to action)
Then on the day if she hasn’t responded
Me: Ready for today?
When she comes with a Yes! again, then flirt
Me: Great. Dress sexy ;-)
—————————————————
Here’s how a cleaner game would look like
H: Hi!!
H: :)
H: How are you?
M: Hey energizer :-) Im awesome, you?
M: Let’s go for a drink
H: Yes!
M: :-) When are you free?
H: This friday :) :)
Me: Perfect :-)
Me: Let’s meet at XXX rooftop 8pm
H: Ok yes!
M: Love it. Dress sexy ;-)
H: <3
Another awesome analysis. Thanks again, Yohami, and thanks also Factory for sharing your game here. Congrats on the number!
Again, I’m so stunned by the last part, the “cleaner game”. I’d use that “cleaner game” as soon as I get another number or lead.
Thanks! We’re gold mining here.
The mall!!
Its not a shopping mall but a street with no car traffic (its where I met her). We call them malls here. There are bars etc on it. The bar I mentioned is there. People do tend to congregate here and there are buskers (street musicians) etc.
Anyways, I see what your saying. I should have left that out.
One of the biggest mistakes is not rewarding the compliance. Good to know this and focus for next time.
Thanks again Yohami
Ah – I thought it was a shopping mall!
“hey girl get all dressed up and let’s buy some milk! X-D”
I was actually asking her out for a milkshake all along ;-)
Thanks for the breakdown Yohami. And thanks Dardo for the encouragement! I think these examples are good for everyone to see.
Although the mall thing probably wasnt as bad as it originally sounded. You headbutted me out of the wrong frame. I’m starting to put the puzzle together. My example above I was saying to myself (while texting).
“minimum investment – maximum impact”
I thought about returning the rapport, which is normal good social calibration. But I told myself NO, dont go for rapport.. Minimum investment son.
Which is the right context is good. But here she was investing emotionally and also going for rapport. Thus in this case, I should return BOTH to arouse her more (or keep the arousal there). You can see her arousal dropping through the course of the text interaction because I was giving her nothing in return. BAD
I was being one dimensional (concentrating on min investment). And to be successful with girls you need to show you have good social skills, are fun as well as being confident, low investment etc
I’ve actually learnt more (of good value) in this thread than anywhere else. Yohami, Todd and now Fboy Tim. So fucking good, especially Yohami and Tim!
Anyhow
Turns out she texted me back last night. Very late again so I was asleep (I love my sleep, its very important you know ;). So I guess, it’s still on!
I notice she has lowered her vibe closer to where mine has been in the interaction. She has also “ignored the wall” (Yohami style) of my mention of meeting in the mall lol.
H: Good evening
H: Is XXX pub near XXX Street?
My reply:
M: Morning pretty girl
M: Its on the cnr of XXX and XXX. Meet me there at 8pm. Sound good?
Much better
“You can see her arousal dropping through the course of the text interaction because I was giving her nothing in return. BAD”
This.
When you do ‘your own thing’ and go offsync with the girl, energy is lost in the gaps. Imagine you’re dancing something that needs coordination (which is effectively what’s happening).
You have to keep the energy and do things that generate more.
Which is not necessarily ‘high energy stuff’. This girl sounds like a party girl but with some girls what produces energy is to have quiet moments and introspective conversations. Each will have a different variation.
But each is also telling you specifically what it is.
This one – high energy / positive rapport / fun / easy going / to the point.
Bang her.
Thought I’d add the resultant interaction from my call to action above. The end of the logistical set-up. It had an interesting turn at the end which I saw as some kind of shit test (?).
Would be happy to hear your thoughts on it and opinion of what she is doing/thinking there.
M: Morning pretty girl
M: Its on the cnr of XXX and XXX. Meet me there at 8pm. Sound good?
H: Yes
H: we meet in front of XXX at 8pm
M: Awesome
M: Yes we’ll meet out front
M: Dress sexy ;-)
H: Kkkk
H: No, no
M: lol
H: I’m will go to talk to you
M: Great, see you there!
H: Ok!!
H: See you
So that was it. All she has to do is show up tonight.
Good man, best of luck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQFPr1UzUmI
Fuckboy Tim on point yet again – go to 3:32 “instead of saying”
What he’s doing there is the ‘cleaner game’. Ramp, do call to action, let her react to that, then you act on it – will be either double down or swing your dick some more.
Lead – wait – let her react – act on her (reward, punish)
As opposed to
Lead, push push push push accommodate try to not make her run (she objects) chase chase chase
Top vs bottom behavior
Yohami, could you please explain more in detail for texting the concept of ramp?
What is the correct way to ramp and the incorrect way? What are the things that create the ramp? And how does the ramp make the girl feel? etc
Just a detailed explanation of the text ramp in one place which will make it clearer for us and put this all in one place which will help with your texting book ;)
Thanks
The ‘ramp’ is a small thing that teases and makes her receptive to the bigger thing you have coming.
So the “hey energizer” opener is the ramp for “let’s go out for a drink” which is the actual move
Also “let’s go out for a drink” is the ramp for setting logistics.
Setting logistics is the ramp for telling her “dress sexy ;-)”
The ;-) is the ramp for that when you see it, you get very close.
Getting very close is the ramp for kissing her.
Basically ramp is: the thing you do before escalating. Or, ramp is why it’s called ‘escalation’ as opposed to it just being “do your thing”
——————–
The idea of calling it a ramp came when I was teaching some guy how to pull a girl. This was over text.
HE: “come to my place, we’ll have a good time”
HER: “what are we going to do there”
Her line is a massive shit test. He runs the risk of ‘over escalating’ and falling in a trap if he say ‘sex’, but also he can’t backtrack and defuse it’s sexuality like ‘look at my pets’ because that’s lame. So the answer is to escalate but ‘ramp’ into it
HE: “we’ll drink hot chocolate” (it was winter)
HE: “And have loads of hot sex”
So, “hot chocolate” is semi sexual, has ‘hot’ there, and it would be a perfect de-escalation from being cornered. But instead of de-escalating, it becomes the support for the next line of ‘hot sex’. So the first line is punch 1 – shows calibration and constraint, and the second line shows you don’t give a fuck about the calibration and constraint and you’re in for the kill. It also gives her an anchor to hold on to. “chocolate” is now a magic word that means sex.
Predictably, the girl loved it and came back with a
HER: mmmm chocolate, you know how to reach a girls heart ;) ;) ;)
To which I rewarded (all through his text lol)
HE: Hey my chocolate is famous ;-) (reward, plus cocky funny)
HE: Take the train at 8pm, I’ll pick you up at the station (breaking rapport, tell her what to do)
Or something like that, I’d have to check.
Then he blew it because he couldn’t make his car work or something.
Guys and their car problems.
So is the ramp making the girl emotional in some way (and you wrote before about how to make the girl emotional), that makes her receptive, then you ask her for what you want?
It’s not “making her emotional in some way” – it’s arousing her, then escalating there
“then you ask her for what you want?”
You’re always asking her for what you want, that’s “leading”
And you’re always giving her what she wants too, that’s also leading her
I say this because if you frame it as “make her emotional then ask for what you want” it sounds like a trick for bottom guy to steal something from her.
But the ‘make her emotional’ is not a trick: women ARE emotion. What you’re doing to ‘get her emotional’ is interacting with her from top guy frame, and top guy is what she wants. So she’s emotional because she’s getting what she wants. So she opens to get more. And the more she gets is your dick, which is what she wants. There’s no trickery.
@Yohami, how do you know when to ping a girl that hasn’t replied to you in a while? Is it Bottom Guy to ping her again before she answers, let’s say, a week after you wrote to her?
The example here is the Cuban girl. After my messages (Kamasutra, Taj Mahal, come back girl, etc.) she hasn’t replied. It’s been a week now, and I’d love to fuck her again (or fuck her, I should say, because I quasi-fucked her the first time). I think she’s already back in Argentina. I mean, I’m not dying to meet her again, hence, I can keep doing my shit and working with my other leads while I wait to see if she comes back (which would be a huge sign she’s DTF).
Thanks!
Short answer: never! long answer, it depends
If your last message was tease / flirt and she doesn’t reply, let that lead die. It may take her a day, a week or a year but she’ll come back to you.
The “it depends” goes like this. When you get busy with other girls and you’re in a situation where you don’t give a fuck at all about her, THEN it’s ok to ping her back, there you are on a level playing field.
Otherwise if your last text was a flirt and she didn’t reply yet, anything you do there is CHASE, starting on the premise that you want to fuck her and she’s so little interested she wont even reply to your text. So that’s you investing against her ‘wall’ and it will only make her strengthen it.
The exception again is when you don’t give a fuck. That’s not you right now. So, wait. Get busy. Bang her sister.
But likely she’ll reply eventually.
That’s what I thought and that’s why I didn’t send her anything else besides those three short and flirty messages.
Sadly, she only has brothers, haha. But a friend will do ;)
Thanks for the quick reply, man!
Dardo
[If your last message was tease / flirt and she doesn’t reply, let that lead die. It may take her a day, a week or a year but she’ll come back to you.]
Yohami, what Daygame people say, even Todd Valentine, is if she doesn’t reply, you keep sending fun interesting messages that do not require a reply.
It’s because of the concept of Social Capital: When we approach her on the street, we start with negative value then we get to zero and with our texts we build a bit more and a bit more.
If we delay or do no keep in touch with a girl we’ve met only for 5 minutes, in a few days she will forget we exist and would have met other guys who would keep her distracted.
So unless you are either someone who stands out in her tribe or someone she knows for a while, you are forgettable, and many guys are talking to her anyway if she is attractive, so you’re lost in the noise.
What do you think about this? That’s why I (1) fear just letting the lead die, (2) if I don’t text girls from daygame, they do not text. If I text them, even after a tease / flirt / date request that she ignored, some reply with a text that has some investment on her side in it. So letting the lead die would lose us too many girls.
Here is a video that explains Social Capital more:
You need to add the “it depends”
[When you get busy with other girls and you’re in a situation where you don’t give a fuck at all about her, THEN it’s ok to ping her back, there you are on a level playing field.]
Otherwise, what are you doing, chase?
“you keep sending fun interesting messages that do not require a reply.”
If you have a cue of 5 girls willing to come to your home and suck your dick, and another 10 who reply your messages quickly, and another 20 you know you can bang if you move your lazy comfortable ass and talk to them and take them out (and take the risk that they may not be worth your time –
IF that is your current context, then WHAT kind of ‘fun and interesting messages that don’t require a reply’ would you be sending to a non-responsive girl?
How much do you actually care?
The answer is nothing and barely anything. If you send something, if anything at all, it’ll be a ‘ping’ to see if she comes back. Stuff that I had sent for example, I’d send one of these a couple weeks after the last communication
“I fucking hate gym in the morning”
“I thought I had bought black tint for my hair and it was dark purple. Now I look like a raver”
“Justin Biever is again in front of the building and a million horny girls are jumping so much my whole building is trembling. Someone give them a salchiche!”
“What’s up”
If the girl is dtf in any way she’ll say haha and come back, if not she’s gone
In some other ocassions I’d be texting with a girl and some sexual innuendo would pop, that I thought was good, and I’d send these lines to 50 “dead lead” girls I had on my phone. Same exact text
“Im going for a shower, wanna come?”
But here’s the problem with Todd, 4WeekNatural and other people who advise to fill her phone with texts and stories and being an entertainer and keeping it alive when she’s not responding
1) Its fucking asexual
2) It’s bottom guy
3) It’s framing the interaction as in ‘you put way more effort than she does’ and ‘she doesn’t even need to respond’
Then, if she’s not responding to all your attention, how do you switch this dynamic to take her out and bang her?
And, more importantly
WHY IS SHE NOT RESPONDING TO BEGIN WITH?
The reason is that you’re not attractive enough. Or: whatever you’re doing on her, how you’re acting with her, doesn’t arouse her. So she doesn’t want ‘more of that’. So your wall of text and interesting story are not ‘what she wants’, so just ‘doing more of that’ is like trying to arouse her by rubbing her knee.
In short:
1) That she’s not reactive means you did stuff wrong already
2) Your focus shouldn’t be to keep ‘that’ alive, but to pay attention and do more of what she DOES respond to, what DOES arouse her, pay attention to the openings she actually gave you, instead of insisting on doing your solo act which is becoming you sending a lot of stuff her way, which is you throwing yourself on the garbage bin one text at a time.
—–
“If we delay or do no keep in touch with a girl we’ve met only for 5 minutes, in a few days she will forget we exist and would have met other guys who would keep her distracted.”
Then your value to her is zero.
You’re not going to elevate your value by sending puppy pictures.
“So unless you are either someone who stands out in her tribe”
Exactly – you have to be someone who stands out. BOLDLY.
“or someone she knows for a while, you are forgettable,”
If you’re forgettable, fix everything about you.
“so you’re lost in the noise.”
Be stronger than noise.
“So letting the lead die would lose us too many girls.”
No.
If you actually let die anything and everything that is not compatible with Top Guy reality, then you’re forced to YOU become the top guy.
The sooner you stop playing in bottom guy games, the quicker you stop being bottom guy.
The sooner that you stop being someone who will entertain a non-interested girl, the sooner that will reflect in your own behavior, from the moment you open her, so the more likely she’ll actually see a guy in top-guy frame, and she’ll react to that, and respond to that.
Makes sense?
“So letting the lead die would lose us too many girls.”
The funny and tragic part of that line of thought…
… is that
YOU DONT HAVE ANY GIRLS
The girls you think you’re losing if you don’t chase them: You don’t have them.
And you don’t have them precisely because you’re the kind of man who chases them.
You’re afraid of losing something you don’t have. And you don’t have it, because you’re the kind of man who is afraid.
So your chase is the kind of interaction that you know: and it consists on throwing yourself away against a non-interested girl, and to try to bring down her defenses. Trying to convince her not to push you away.
And that’s so fucking sad and pathetic.
The sooner you see it for what it is, the sooner you can do the click.
That same girl could be jumping on your bones and giving you more pussy that you can live with. All of them – every girl. Would be saying YES.
If you’d change and become the man you can be.
Or, you can remain the same and ‘chase them’.
And not have them.
[The funny and tragic part of that line of thought…
… is that
YOU DONT HAVE ANY GIRLS
The girls you think you’re losing if you don’t chase them: You don’t have them.]
You are actually SO FUCKING RIGHT, Yohami.
If I “did nothing” right now, no girl will contact me, so I don’t have any girl to begin with. The chase is killing it.
By the way, do you agree with what Todd here says about dealing with girl silence, or is the answer “It depends”?
https://youtu.be/7OZebLs6v7o?t=3m13s