TYO: Reinventing the Makeout | First Lay of My Tokyo Daygame Trip, +1 Tokyo
When I left this girl after our first date last Saturday afternoon, there was a spring in my step. I had that kind of smile that is an indication a man is “love drunk” on good chemistry. I wanted to see her again. She is 22. It was a great date. Tonight, we had another excellent date. And the date ended with her ankles in the air and my cock inside her. The first lay in my 2018 trip to daygame (once again) in Japan. +1 Tokyo.
And more than the lay, I think I have learned some things from writing this post.
It is a long, involved post… in large part as I give it a robust and very thorough “Yohami treatment”… using his comments from other posts to learn, to grow as a man of game, and to turn this lay report in something more meaningful than another story of conquest.
The featured girl here is Miss Surprise. I wrote about how I met her in my last post about some daygame dates. She was the second of three dates last week. Definitely my favorite of the three.
As that date ended, my body was flooded with chemicals and hormones. She had gotten under my skin. I like her very much.
The next day I woke up with the plan to work a bit and then to run some more street approaches… and maybe try to score a date for that night. I went to Starbucks to get some work done. I was getting a lot of messages from other girls, both new leads and girls I had met last year and pinged the night before… but it was this girl, in that moment in time, that I was most enthused about.
HER: Thanks for your lunch :)
This was from Miss Surprise after that Saturday date. It was now Sunday morning and I was responding:
NASH: Ohayo Pretty Girl
NASH: I had fun with you.
NASH: And you smell delicious.
She does. Again tonight, as well. And tonight it wasn’t just perfume.
Let’s say a girl has recently showered and is wearing some kind of product that makes her smell pretty… perfume, or lotion, or hair conditioner, or whatever. And you’ve had the kind of date where you end up peeling her clothes off. There is a certain point… where her smell changes. It’s not beauty product. And it’s not sweat or normal body odor either.
This is a specific thing. And wanting to document that smell is part of the reason I’m writing at this particular moment… I can smell her now… just minutes after she’s left my modern little apartment here in Tokyo. This is the kind of detail that is hard to remember, days later. But it’s one I can recall each time it happens with a new girl.
That “special smell” is not her pussy, or not entirely. It often seems to come from the back of her neck. I swear, it is especially strong as you get your face up near a girl’s nipples (like a nipple can give off a smell?). It’s got to be pheromonal.
Tonight, as I had her back at my apartment after our date… and I was just getting the seriousness of the makeout started… and I wasn’t sure if this was really on… that smell made it very hard to imagine I wasn’t going to fuck her. She wasn’t even undressed yet. That smell doesn’t always mean sex, but it usually does.
And that smell was right… I did fuck this girl. We’ll get to that.
Back to her and my text exchange:
(This ^ is a couple of hours later)
NASH: Did you just wake up??! You’re so lazy.
NASH: : ]
We went back and forth a few times, and she got a chance to call me lazy as well, and the vibe was good. We were sending gifs at each other and I was telling her that I thought that she was funny… in part, so she had some clear reasons why I liked her. I do like her.
More SOIs. More elements of the ill-defined potential of my interest in “Octopus Game” (I am still working out what that means to me).
NASH: Hey, Funny Girl…
NASH: When are you free.
NASH: Let’s be funny together.
HER: After school and weekend
She had told me this ^ before. I was looking for a specific time from her, but she wants me to make offers, not ask about times. Cool. I got it.
NASH: How about dinner tomorrow.. Or Wednesday.
HER: Tomorrow I have an appointment
NASH: You’re trying to tell me you’d rather see me tonight?!!
NASH: You miss me so bad.
HER: *crying/laughing emoji*
HER: Next week
Hmmm, okay. Chinese girls can be dry and practical in some ways, but that is not raging enthusiasm. I rolled off for a couple of days, ever so slightly wounded and insecure about the possibilities of seeing her again.
It still felt on to me… but I needed to give the affair some space and not crush the sparrow. I can see, in several elements of my game, that I am giving everything more room on this trip than I did last year… and it’s better game. Not being rushed by a short trip means you can run better game. You can let girls sit. It makes a difference.
Two days later I reopened, chatting about a big snowstorm that had come through the city and blanketed my neighborhood (and hers) with a half a foot of powder. We exchanged pics of the snow and I moved into the date set up.
NASH: Hey… Let’s get together.
NASH: How about Wednesday or Thursday? When are you free?
NASH: Let’s have some fun.
HER: Ok tmr
That short little reply… some small part of me took that as a lack of interest. But I was beginning to get the feel for this girl, and that’s just her way. It’s her no-nonsense Chinese style. And her difficulty with English. She likes me, she’s just terse via text. She has more sparkle in person.
I had been spinning plates… and stalling two different girls while I tried to get my favorites locked into choice nights, and get some “quality time” with them. Because I want the notch, yes. But also because I want the experience of being with those particular girls… there is a reason why I like them more than the other leads I have on the back burner. This girl is very cute by my standards. Not as objectively hot as some of the others, but I liked her the most.
I still do. More so. No one-itis here. But I have simmering feelings of attachment for her already. Not neediness, but appreciation and desire. It’s not a cold, calculating seduction… it has more juice than that… and it feels great.
I ran a solid, “cool” date tonight. I did a good job, more than making up for my first date of this trip (with Miss Hot Pic) where I made some logistical bobbles and made things harder for myself. I increasingly have my date routine handled and I’m running better game now.
Zooming in: I have been pushing myself to “know the territory.” I have been trying new restaurants/bars/cafes almost every day, trying to build a working vocabulary of places near my apartment for dates. I also know all the spots in my old neighborhood, which is a few blocks away (I have been taking dates there too). Men know their territory. It’s a huge advantage.
Today on a backstreet, I found a restaurant with a very limited menu. I checked it out anyway and… totally killer, cozy lounge. A+ vibe. Small, intimate, booth seats, no smoking, cocktails and a masculine interior, with a full bar. Apparently there is another like it in NYC. Imagine a small subterranean lounge at an old-school country club. Decorated with vintage photos of early American football players, hunting trophies and animal heads. No cigar smell to foul the place. Brilliant spot.
“This is why, before you can start to date women, you must be able to DATE YOURSELF! That’s right, DATE YOURSELF. Try going out to these places by yourself or with your friends first. This will: Make you more comfortable. You already know the place, are comfortable with it, and know what to expect.”
— Pook, from The Book of Pook
More from Pook in another post…
So I had her meet me at my local Starbucks. It was several degrees below freezing tonight, so I had to keep the plan tight so the extreme cold didn’t freeze my chances of some warm flesh and a notch.
As I spotted her outside of the Starbucks window, she waved and jumped up and down a little bit. Goddamn that was cute.
She was dressed in cool-kid, high-end fashion… just exactly like the wealthy Chinese kids that visit my city back home… and the girls that go to that art school, that has been a source of so many great experiences for me.
She wore all black. A complicated, but very cool jacket, over a sweatshirt thing. Black tights, with black shorts over them… which you couldn’t see, as the sweatshirt hung down to mid-thigh. Black boots that seemed modeled after riding boots, but more punk, and over the knee in the front. I am sure all of it was “designer” gear.
I was in black Vans hightops, black bootcut Levi’s jeans, a black tshirt, a plain, black, long sleeve Varvatos tshirt over that, my black scarf with the skulls on it, and a black waxed cotton jacket I only wear in Japan.
Both of us, head to toe in black. I told her we matched and she gave me a cute smile. I made her hug me. She is tiny and feels amazing.
We looked fucking great together… even though I am more than twice her age. We met in a high-end neighborhood in Japan, with each of us starting out in different countries… me, the United States, her, China… an unusual combination. And yet, a great fit. She is cool. I am cool. We’re cool together. Daygame was the medium that allowed something so unusual to happen.
I took her to dinner at this simple, but proper Japanese place, maybe 5 minutes from Starbucks. It was awesome. I have eaten there four or five times now. It is my local, go-to spot. Delicious, authentic, easy to get in/out of, not expensive at all… and close to my house.
On the short walk to dinner, we were joking around right away and she was giving me playful slaps on the arm. She did that on the date last Saturday too.
YOHAMI: “fake punching”
YOHAMI: Means you’re doing great.
YOHAMI: Girls punching you on the arm want to escalate physically, want more touch, etc.
That ^ is a comment from a post I wrote last time I was here. About another Chinese girl that was putting that same move on me during a date on last year’s trip.
After dinner I was asking Miss Surprise what kind of
cheesecake gelato she likes (I have some in the freezer of my place, for “plausible deniability“). She was bouncing along happily next to me, and was responding. I said, “I have…” and named three flavors… perhaps too subtly implying that I was taking her to my place.
She was right there with me, so I walked her along, winding back into the neighborhood toward my place. It wasn’t until we were maybe 50 feet from my door that she realized I wasn’t taking her to a business… but to my residence. She balked. No, no, she said. I coaxed her a bit. Resistance… I wasn’t sure how token.
So I walked her right past my door, teasing her a little, pointing to the light in my window as we walked by… and I took her to that “country club” bar I had found in my explorations earlier that day. I am glad I had a good spot prepared. Terribly cold walk… but not that far away.
We arrived at my bar cool…
I walked her down the stairs and… I tried to kiss her. She brushed it off. A look of seriousness and alarm on her face. As the stairs hit another landing, I tried again, I was more firm and she was more compliant. I had her against the wall and gave her a modest kiss on the lips.
Then… into that lounge. It was awesome. Only four other people in there, including the mellow, Japanese-hipster bartender and the skateboarder-looking waiter guy. Everyone was super cool. Drinks. This is the girl that claims to be a big drinker, but she was very reasonable behind the straw sticking out of her glass. She is a completely tasteful little thing, from a great family. Exactly the type of girl I want to date.
We left at 22:30, but I thought it was later. The staff was on the stairway closing up, so I pushed her into the elevator to get us alone and I gave her an aggressive kiss as soon as the doors closed. It was properly hot. I was impressed. One my best first kisses in a long time.
Then I walked her back toward my place, asking her how she was getting home. She said the train. I just kept walking to my place. The neighborhood is all little, twisty side-streets, I’m certain she had no idea which direction she was going.
She balked again at the main junction, very briefly. I repeated a line I had taught her on our first date… that I would “make sure she was comfortable.” And I said it as if I was a little outraged she would accuse me of anything unsavory. I said, “you’re all right,” and playfully rolled my eyes. She was trying to show me a pic of the Mercedes SUV her dad bought her… because I had just correctly guessed that she drove a Mercedes. She is that type. She was surprised at my amazing mind-reading skills.
She got antsy again as we turned the corner onto the tiny dead-end street where my apartment sits. I got her to the front gate. She said no, several times. A serious look on her face… with almost imperceptible flickers of amusement (which are easier to see in retrospect). She didn’t walk away.
I continued to try to put her into a trance that would help my aims… You’re alright, I repeated calmly. She said, what will we do? I said, listen to music. And?, she said. And talk, I said. And then what?, she said, feigning impatience. Talk a lot!, I said, with emphasis and a smile.
C’mon. I tugged her arm, in a light leading action, staring her in the eyes. And then it was her turn to roll her eyes in impatience, but… she walked through the gate. And for that moment, the false-struggle was gone.
My place, music, water. Her, suddenly mouse-like, sitting next to me on the tiny two-seater couch. My whole apartment is less than 200 sq ft… and the bed was six feet away.
I moved in to kiss her… and I got LMR. Of course I did. Because with some girls, it is just like that. She looked very serious. Again, I couldn’t tell how token it was. But I had a clue:
YOHAMI: All girls say and do has the ultimate motive of telling you what to do and how to seduce them.
When I originally approached her on the street, she was barely looking me in the eyes, often looking off into the distance. I almost walked away from her that day, thinking it was disinterest, but then… she would spit out an answer to one of my questions. And then look away… and then… show me a pic on her phone. In the freeze >> flight >> fight >> fuck spectrum of a girl in a dangerous moment, I think that is her “freeze” look… hoping against hope that the predator will just walk on by and her womb will be safe for another night.
As I write this post, I am starting to get that my goal should be to take her from that “frozen” look… to “aroused.” A lot more on that below. That is where this post is going.
Yohami’s comment above is from my story about Miss Nature… an odd, but interesting night I had with a virgin in my bedroom… but could never get her onto the bed. Could never get her to do much of anything. And… Yohami kicked my ass in the comments section of that post. I learned a tiny bit then… and I’m still trying to learn what Yohami is trying to say. And to expand his “stern read” of my game that night against the broader range of mastery and the reality that a player like Yohami can teach.
I will sample a lot from that post in the rest of this story.
Back to this date:
I have Miss Surprise in my pad, and I’m physically escalating her on the couch… and she was looking like a frightened rabbit… and I did what is normal to me, but goes against a lot of what is in the mainstream culture right now:
I heard her saying “no”… and I watched her closed off body language… but I tested the waters anyway.
As we discussed at length in my Janka/LMR post, I am perfectly confident this is often our job as men. It is a fucking balancing act. And it is not easy. And that is just the way it is.
She was giving me a serious look like I was in trouble. Or she was. Almost defiant, but in a relatively mild, hopeless way. Arms crossed in a X over her knees. Very closed off physically and emotionally… it would seem. But she was still looking at me. Very still, intense, and almost angry…
So I leaned back. The front door was five feet away from her, and I was not blocking her path. She had a clear route to escape if that’s what she wanted. This is “basic, legal/moral consideration.”
And I reviewed my options of what to do next. I didn’t ask myself “WWYD”, but I will do that now.
In the case of the story where most of these comments came from… the girl in that post (Miss Nature) was a shy, young, Taiwanese virgin, in my bedroom back at home, after a date. We had had a good date. I took her back to my place. We had made out a bit in the kitchen. And when I took her down the hall into my room:
“…she stops at the entry of my bedroom, and literally hugs the door jam. Like… fucking hugs the door jam. Like my doorway is a teddy bear for virgin Taiwanese girls that might otherwise get some cock for the first time.”
So she was another LMR story. Or as Yohami would clarify… “a resistance story.” I can see some parallels between my dates with Miss Nature and Miss Surprise.
In that story from last year, I was concerned for the girl. I wanted to fuck her. I was more than willing to “push”… but I also was interested in her level of comfort, as a very inexperienced girl with a dangerous man. As always, I want these girls to have good experiences. And I also want to get laid. Sundance has been pointing to some Captain Jack material lately where Jack wants us to be clear that the girl and you are often on the same team (or should be)… you both want sex. And yet Janka is right that there is a lot of tension in these moments. There is a lot going on here.
In the case of that date with Miss Nature, I was using very lame “verbal communication methods.” This is what we’re taught by mainstream culture, but that is shit game. It is safe, but repulsive. And that’s what I was doing. I was checking with her, verbally, to make sure she was okay and had a voice and all that…
NASH: I tell her she can leave anytime she wants
NASH: I told her over and over that she could leave anytime she wanted
NASH: and despite clear and consistent escalation from me, she doesn’t want to leave.
NASH: I had told her 100 times she could leave any time she wanted
From ^ the post.
I hadn’t read these comments in months, so they were not on my mind tonight when I brought Miss Surprise back to my apartment… except in the larger sense that I am learning from all this… and all the
beatings lessons Yohami has given me as he’s helped move me closer to Top Guy.
YOHAMI: She’s not there because she wants a way out – so offering it / repeatedly doesn’t make any sense
YOHAMI: Offer your dick instead, that’s what she’s there for. But she has to want it first.
YOHAMI: The way to find how / when she wants it is all the courtship and push pull that precedes it, aka flirting, talking, kino, etc.
Yohami was starting to get through to me in that post. In very small ways. As I have more experience now, I am now able to take in what he was trying to say months ago.
NASH: Yeah. This is right and I’m learning from this.
She is, or she is not, comfortable. But saying that over and over is not the tool for the job. Saying it doesn’t even make her comfortable. All I did that night by saying that the way I did was communicate that I couldn’t really read her. When I rely on the words, I’m missing most of the story. Not good game.
YOHAMI: The question is why? what made you say that.
NASH: Hmmm. Part of me likes this. I like it, as it deals with all the “mainstream culture” stuff. “Are you comfortable?” “You know where the door is, right?” “You can leave anytime you want, of course.” “You know how to call yourself a car, right?”
NASH: You can *wink* at her when you say all this… but this is basic legal courtesy. I don’t do this every time, nor with every girl. But with timid girls, brand new girls, any hint of craziness, I make it very clear.
This ^ was my thinking for a situation like this, from almost a year ago. There are still bits that I like. Particularly in a Janka-mindset of trying to escalate super hard… keeping an eye on the legal boundaries as a form of guidance. A “bare minimum” reference point. It’s a reasonable backup plan… assuming you don’t know what else to do.
YOHAMI: You’re moving on her which may make her uncomfortable so you want to balance things out by giving her a way out. Is that reading correct?
Yeah, that was what I was doing then. And I do a little bit of that again on this date.
For this post, Miss Surprise was acting something like “scared.” Her facial expression and body language were completely closed off. It was our second date, and first date after dark. Her first time in my place… I wanted to make certain she was clear of her options… but… I also want to do better than that.
YOHAMI: Let me ask a better question. When you’re telling her that she can go, and you repeat that framing 3-4 times, is she getting aroused?
YOHAMI: Are you trying to arouse her, or give her comfort? Which is it, and why?
YOHAMI: When you’re moving to her – are you pushing towards her, or pulling her into you?
This is where Yohami is beginning to make a dent in my thick-skulled consciousness. This ^ is at the heart of the rest of this post. This is magic is he pointing to here.
Okay… so I learned something with Miss Nature back then… that I was never going to offer the girl a chance to leave like that, not over and over, as a band-aid for my lack of skill as a seducer. Certainly not in combination with “pushing” her, and escalating in what is basically an uncalibrated way. I know I am very “socially tuned” in many ways, but Yohami is trying to show me how I need improvement at this particular stage. And I still have a long way to go.
If standard American pickup teaches to “escalate hard”… to “run the train,” as RSD Ozzy would say… we know that IS, in fact, sometimes better than being a pussy. Most “soft” guys, and beginners, need a little of that in the mix of their game. But it’s clearly not “great game.” It’s the “brute force” version of pickup.
YOHAMI: PRESSURE dude, no. No. No. No. No. No. No.
From ^ yet another post.
He has been trying to teach me this for months.
Instead of just sexually pestering her before she really “wants it,” and making her “pump the brakes,” what can we do that might get us to arousal? Why run my game in a way where she has to hit the brakes? Not because she doesn’t like sex… but because I am running less-than-sophisticated “Caveman” style game.
And it should be no surprise that girls don’t like that kind of game. And that cooler guys have shown them better game than that before. Caveman Game is what Ansari did in that now infamous story with the silly little “child” known as “Grace.” That girl was a dumbass… and Ansari was a caveman. No crime in either, but we can do better.
Caveman Game works… sometimes, at some level… maybe more so in the short term. It’s standard pickup advice, in many ways. But it’s ugly seduction. When I do stuff that is even remotely Caveman, it doesn’t help my inner game. It doesn’t make me feel like Top Guy.
Yohami is pointing to a level up. Yohami is pointing to Top Guy. I want to be a great seducer. I want to be Top Guy.
YOHAMI: The framework where you think that offering a way out is “comfort” is one where you are making advances that are not preceded by her arousal – she’s not going to say yes, so you give her a safe out in case she gets too triggered by you. This is bottom guy. This is pushing against rejection, and giving her the power to stop you, or run away.
Caveman Game is making her “use the brakes.” Caveman isn’t “beta,” but it is Bottom Guy.
One of my all-time favorite teaching lines from Yohami is this:
“That’s what I’m referring to when I say that you take the accelerator and let her have the brake, but then you drive in a way she never has to use the brake. She has control but is never required to use it.”
I’ve quoted that line many times. There is endless genius in that line. Watch me get more and more out of that line in this post (I get more from that line, every time I seriously revisit it).
And that line, my brothers… is our ticket out of Caveman Game. Caveman Game is my term, but I think what I am talking about works well with this comment from Yohami:
YOHAMI: What this ignores is what girls want. The girl is not a passive thing that you conquer. The girl is a hungry beast. Instead of pushing when she’s not ready and giving her a way out, move when she’s going to say yes and use her hunger for you and give her what she wants.
This stuff from Yohami used to drive me crazy… but I’m starting to get it. If you can read that line “one time,” and instantly apply it… good for you. I heard this a year ago. And I am just now getting it such that I can begin to use it “on the fly,” in real life situations with YHT.
Q: How do I move away from “tussle” and “struggle”… into “hunger” and “arousal?”
This ^ is where I want to put more of my focus in terms of what goes down at the “sex location” aspect of the model… in the moments before “first time” sex (or “anytime” sex, for that matter).
I haven’t even really tried to break down this moment before. Not at this level. We teach guys how to escalate, but not how to do it well. That leaves many of us clumsy, at the level of Caveman, or both. I have been both.
Writing this post is helping me see that “pushing” vs “pulling” distinction much more clearly. I can see it now. Maybe for the first time.
The question is not a choice between escalating vs being passive. Yes, we lead, we escalate. No doubt about that part. And it’s not about “verbally barfing your uncertainty” on the girl (“Are you comfortable??? Are you comfortable???”)… that’s not it either. This is about the possibility for sensitivity around pushing vs pulling. This is the lesson I’m after in this post.
If I can see that distinction… if I can begin to tune toward her “hunger,” and quit “pushing against resistance”… I am a better seducer, at an advanced level, instantly. And now… I just need to think a little harder about what that looks like in practice… in terms of specific moves to employ… for a given girl, in a given situation.
Back to Miss Surprise…
I think I had a good head start on doing some of what Yohami would have me do here. It took me a minute to get it going…
I told her I didn’t know her that well, and that I was happy to give her a break. I said all that with a big, smile on my face. And I did back off, way off, relaxing the scene, like a vampire retracting his fangs, in a moment of pause.
I told her how it’s my job to give her a good experience (I had been saying stuff like this all night, and I truly believe it all). And that our first date was a good experience and she agreed. And I said we’d been playful, and gave her a little shove. And she laughed an easy little laugh. I was getting good reactions. So even this… was giving her “more of what she wants.” It’s not sexy, but it’s on the right path… a path with no resistance.
The tension was gone (for a moment)… but so was the sexual vibe. I talked about how I taken care of her tonight, and she agreed again. And how this was playful too, and I made a big open gesture with my arms and she smiled.
In some ways, this sounds a bit like my date with Miss Nature again. All this verbal stuff. But the tone was very different. And I hadn’t created much resistance yet. And the main difference was… that tonight, this verbal pacing was NOT my only strategy. Tonight, I wasn’t going to “push” and then offer her a place to run if she wasn’t “aroused by pushing.” I was aware of more options than that.
"What I'm saying is, you can press, but she can pace it. She can say, 'yes, I'm interested, but not right now.' Often beautiful girls are very good at pacing. They'll pace you. They'll let you push, but they'll say 'I need more time, I need more time.'"
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) January 7, 2018
I can see better now why Yohami would think that “pushing” is low level game. When “we push, and she paces” (which in many ways is good advice, albeit at a “lower level” of game) there is some utility in that… but Yohami is going to nudge us even further into “advanced game” here.
YOHAMI: The way to find how / when she wants it is all the courtship and push pull that precedes it, aka flirting, talking, kino, etc.
If I read this correctly, Yohami is talking about a lot more pre-sex, “pre-foreplay” flirting. All highly calibrated, until she is so worked up, she will devour your attention as you move into sex.
I think Yohami means more “sexual negotiation,” more pre-sex seduction, at the level of the dance, and then sex flows much more smoothly, as “it’s already been decided.” This isn’t “covert,” but it’s unspoken and non-verbal… at the level of her turn-on… all of which is orchestrated by the seducer.
This was actually how sex was for me, when I was full AFC… as I was ONLY ever with girls that really liked me (by default, I had no skills with “maybe” girls at all)… and I took so long to ramp into sex that it was always a foregone conclusion when it was on the table. That model was unconscious, and far too passive. And I missed a million good experiences.
So to try to move toward arousal such that there is no (serious) LMR… to move into “Foregone Conclusion Game”… is a great plan. It’s very advanced seduction. But I’m not sure how to do that in combination with a fast-sex model? To run this kind of game… and sweep her off her feet at the same time? I know Yohami sees no conflict there.
I do, however, think I can work some of this into the way I currently escalate my dates… Maybe I don’t wait until she non-verbally “signs on the dotted line.” When Yohami says “it is all the courtship and push pull that precedes it, aka flirting, talking, kino, etc.,” that IS already happening in my current dates. Maybe I can improve there? Experiment more? Looks for the “more of what she wants” that leads to her arousal… in a more conscious way.
This is Yohami’s “ramp,” but from another angle. The “courtship and push pull that precedes it, aka flirting, talking, kino, etc.” IS “the ramp” into sex. I am starting to put this stuff together.
I don’t really get this yet, but I can point to an example of “experimenting” and “swinging my dick:”
On New Year’s Day, I had that Korean girl in my bed, and she was giving me something like LMR. And physical dominance wasn’t getting her to submit… or, in Yohami’s terms, it wasn’t arousing her. It was the wrong move for that girl, so she would hit the brakes. And each time I made her hit the brakes, her resistance would increase… moving us away from sex… not good “advanced” game.
But when I said, “spread your legs,” she would spread her legs. And that felt like a small breakthrough, at the time.
It’s not a choice of words over physicality (because it is just as often the other way around, with other girls, on other nights)… in this case, it was “trying something else,” aka “swinging my dick,” and I found what worked… at least somewhat (I didn’t fuck that girl). Instead of “pushing against resistance,” I had found something she responded to. And she spread her legs and I slipped my fingers insider her… things progressed.
By trying various moves, I was “screening” (Yohami will use that word in a comment below) for what worked for that particular girl.
We can try things… other things… “flirting, talking, kino, etc.”… other than repeatedly trying to pound our square “peg” into her soft, little, round “hole.”
“Try other things…,” that is a big clue. Sounds so simple, but it’s a struggle to put all this together. If you have experience, I bet you know what I mean.
NASH: How about this… what if I’m not quite calibrated to what her arousal looks like. This isn’t how I feel I am, but maybe this is true. That I can only see massive GREEN lights, and miss more subtle ones…
This ^ was/is exactly my problem, in some ways. I can react to “massive green lights.” And I can “push.” But what about that space in the middle?
Part of the deal here is… it is NOT a “one size fits all strategy.” It’s in an entirely different category (“framework”) of game than that. And no surprise, it involves calibration. If Caveman Game has little-to-no “advanced calibration,” Yohami Game shows us a way out of that. It gives us another way to read the seduction, and other options for how to move the girls toward a good experience.
A responsive “ramp.” One with subtlety. One that constantly bounces off of resistance very early on. Tries something else. Zero-ing in on all moments of arousal. Giving her “more of what she wants.” Until she is “gagging for it.”
NASH: I am trying to connect the dots between “offer her your dick instead, that’s what she’s there for” and what she is like standing there, looking nervous, coat on, big smile, but all defense.
NASH: Thinking about what you’re saying about not creating resistance, I could keep backing up. Trying something else, less of that kind of escalation, as I am getting that kind of display. Try moving her around.
I was starting to get the concept ^, even back then.
Back to Miss Surprise, once a again…
At this stage of the night I had got Miss Surprise inside, escalated, bounced off my old solution of making sure she was “comfortable.” But this time, I didn’t stay there. I was ready to experiment. I was ready to be more subtle… and more calibrated.
I had given her some space, and then tried to get back on my game. She went back to that serious look. I started “trying some things.” Little experiments, rather than constant brute force in the same direction. And this time, I got her to started to moan.
Okay. There it is.
Through a little experimentation I had found something that was closer to her sweet spot. That… and/or I had given her enough time (more physical and verbal “courtship”) to warm up into a racier pace.
More importantly… I wasn’t trying to “break through resistance.” I was looking for arousal. And I was doing a better job.
I pulled one arm up over her head to the back of the couch, and pinned it down, opening her up. And gave her a forceful kiss. This wasn’t about the “force,” that was just the flavor of the move. “Force” was just another experiment here. I was testing to see what she likes. I already knew she responds to that kind of dominance… I’d already kissed her like this on the stairs, and in the elevator, at the bar.
Arousal goes up when I give her “more of what she wants.” Surprise, surprise. She moaned some more.
I swooped an arm behind her back, around her tiny waist, and pulled her to me and the moan got deeper. Then… I backed off again. Turned down the lights. Gave us both a sip of water. In and out of it. Not too eager… I wasn’t too eager.
“This is the perfect place for you to look at it. Look at the difference of PRESSURE and PULL. When you unbuttoned her bra and played with her nipples, these things are actions that go in a direction and turn her on, you’re taking her where you want her to be, that’s a PULL. See how quicker she was assuming there was going to be sex, like multiplied by your leading force.”
This ^ is from a different post where Yohami was trying to clean up my game with Firecracker. And those words also stuck with me, nagging me to pay more attention and to be more subtle with these girls… and to notice what is working.
Miss Surprise was warming up, but she was still serious and quiet. This is also how she was when I approach her on the street. She isn’t always a “massive green light.” As I get more experience I can read these “amber yeses” better.
YOHAMI: Girls role is to put themselves in situations where you can make a move, and follow your lead. If she’s there standing with you and not running – she is helping with the seduction.
Now… with Caveman Game out of the way… this ^ applies again. If she’s not “on the brakes,” we can focus more on our role of controlling the accelerator.
So I knelt on the floor, pried her legs apart, and pushed my body between her knees. I pulled the hair on the back of her head to get her chin up and out of her chest… and I kissed her. Hard. And she moaned.
And that… was basically it. I’d unlocked “arousal.” There wasn’t much resistance to kill the vibe. I had her at the right level of arousal now, and she was ready.
I took her to the bed… and… I did all the things I love to do to young girls when I have the opportunity.
YOHAMI: Your job is to arouse her, and when you do, you double down. When you do it like that, you don’t find any walls – or you find walls but you don’t crash on these, don’t push forward against walls and rejection, you keep screening, swinging, and escalate / double down when she’s aroused and will say “yes”.
YOHAMI: To fuck a woman you don’t ‘tear down her defenses with sexual pressure and game’
YOHAMI: The woman will signal when she’s ready and when there’s no resistance.
A key phrase here ^ for me is this: “or you find walls but you don’t crash on these.”
This is part of the piece I was missing. When Yohami says you won’t see resistance, I couldn’t see how I was supposed to experiment and explore (=”swing my dick”) without ever seeing at least some “resistance” and/or something other than complete acceptance of each move. That is a frustrating part of trying to learn from Yohami, because it sounds like he thinks a girl should love everything you try… and that is not my experience… and that’s not what he is saying.
Everything being perfect is not his point. The answer is, you will get “little no’s.” Maybe even just changes in her look. Shifts in her energy. And you can still play there (that is all good feedback), but don’t “push.” Don’t fuck your night over by “creating resistance” with your pushing. That is Bottom Guy. You stay in the game, but change the experiment, as a point of calibration and mastery. That is closer to Top Guy.
Also note that word “screening.” “Swing your dick” is the first part of how we “screen” girls for what makes them respond.
YOHAMI: There’s zero pressure put on the girls, there’s nothing they could defend against – so they also have no defense for the arousal that they feel. The only pressure comes when standing up by your frame, there are a few iterations of that too. Pressure in the frames clash, but not pressure to get what you want from her.
So much here ^… I am obviously still trying to figure this out.
To go back to the “driving the car” analogy… maybe this is like her gripping the seat a bit (excited), but not so much that she is hitting the brake (wants to get out). Maybe that is the place where you tune your experimentation… with the goal of getting her back toward moaning and arousal and less death-grip on the seat?
Gripping the seat is okay… but if she’s on the brake, you’re doing it wrong. We “swing our dick” and look for subtle signs, both positive and negative, so we don’t see “hard resistance.”
The kind of LMR I am used to is about “hard resistance,” to some degree. Legal, but counterproductive to seduction.
The goal is not to “defeat the girl” but to arouse her. Stay in that zone. Over and over. Until she is clawing at you. Then… fuck the happy little thing.
I feel like I’m reinventing “making out” here. And it’s not because I don’t know how to makeout. Of course I do. When it goes well and it’s super on, we all know how. It’s when we have this “dance”… it’s that tenuous space of what we call LMR… where we don’t have much information or trust. This is where Yohami Game is helping me move to another level. Of not just more lays (and I believe this definitely means more lays). But a better time for both her… and myself.
Arousal > tussle.
YOHAMI: Each girl has an opening or several of them (pun intended) where there’s no wall and no rejection as long as you match what they want and require right there, if you can match it, they want it more and more and more
In this case, I think I finally got it… to some degree… for this girl… on this night. I was “swinging my dick” to see what she likes. And… as the Myths of Yohami have foretold… I found arousal and the LMR was gone. I didn’t do it with persistence, I did it with experimentation. I was screening her… across the range of the ways I like to “swing my dick” (it was still about me, I love everything I did to that girl).
The difference may be subtle, but it’s real. It’s masterful. I could feel it on that date. I’d never been that subtle before. And then…
She was naked.
She is 90 lbs. Nearly flat chested. And a total turn-on for a beast like me. What a hot little girl.
I was very much enjoying watching her move past being self-conscious about her body, and shifting into the physical pleasure I gave her as I sucked her nipples and raked my nails across her pale skin. She would moan. She would look at me. There was raging heat in her eyes, in her stare… but she let me move her in any direction I wanted. Resistance was… completely gone. She was enjoying herself. I loved it.
I took my time pleasuring her. Holding her down. Choking her. But also stroking her hair. And laying next to her… going more sensual. Telling her how beautiful her white skin looked against the black sheets on the bed (this place is decorated in a perfectly masculine way). And then, I’d get aggressive again. Eat her pussy. And come up and kiss her, and smear girl-glaze that started between her legs across her own mouth. It was hot. And it was easy to throw her around… she’s light as a feather.
And she said… “do you have a condom.” I think that is the first time I have actually heard that line.
I hadn’t even hinted I was going to fuck her, but of course we were well along that path. I was still fully clothed. I hadn’t pushed my dick into her, nor taken it out. And when she said that, I said… “hold on, I’m not done with you yet.” And I kept going, doing all the things I like to do. Even her pleasure is about me. It’s all about what I want.
And then… I walked the two feet to my closet next to the bed, in this tiny apartment, grabbed one of the world’s best condoms… and fucked her tiny, sexy, beautiful little body.
And the sex… was fucking hot. It was excellent first-time sex.
I did a lot of the things I do to Miss Thick, and they felt natural and smooth with this girl. I haven’t said much about it, but this girl looks like she could be Siren’s little sister… they are very similar (that’s part of why I opened her). So fucking her, she felt to me, like she was in the Sorority of my other favorite daygame girls. A Chinese dream team. It was a fresh experience, a beautiful one, and even so, somewhat familiar.
(In the way of “new” experiences for me… at one point, as I had her on her back, she reached up with both of her little hands… and choked me. Hmm. Never seen that move before. It wasn’t a turn on, not exactly, not at the level of my body. I’m a dom, and things like that aren’t what excites me. But at the mental level, I loved her for it. 90lbs of youth, naked and smooth, a tiny Chinese girl, with both hands around my throat as I buried myself insider her. Good girl.)
I tried to get her to stay over. Even picked her up and took her back into the sheets, wrapping her in the comforter and burning eye contact into her for a bit. If I like a girl enough (and I almost always do), it’s important to me that she knows I WANT her to stay over. I’m fine with it if she leaves, but I want her to have the feeling of being “wanted” post-sex. I do want these girls (like 90% of them), even after I get off. I wanted her to sleep with me, actually sleep. I told her that. And I wanted her to feel desired… that is a gift I want to give little girls.
But she was ready to go. I got dressed as well. Feed her a couple of strawberries I had bought at a local produce shop. As she got the second of her two boots back on, I pinned her to the door and we had a great last makeout of the night. And I walked her a couple of blocks through the freezing night, stuffed her in a cab.
As the cab pulled away she didn’t look back or wave… all I saw was the dark shower of her hair on her little shoulders and that fancy jacket. I had a tinge of insecurity that she didn’t validate me with that move, that lookback, which I love to see from girls. I am a sentimental retard sometimes, even now.
And I walked home smiling through the freezing dark.
As I write this… my fingers smell like that sour-sweet girl goo. I love that smell. It’s vulgar and satisfying. Hot night. I love his game.
Thanks again, Yohami.
Fucking bravo. Congrats man.
“I wasn’t trying to “break through resistance.” I was looking for arousal.”
You got it.
Yohami, what do you think of the concept of Deep Conversion, by Krauser:
And how do YOU do it? :)
It took me so long to “get it.”
I remember how I felt as I thought through your POV as we had the big LMR post discussion. And I remember “mentally arguing” with you then. I did NOT get this then.
I still think “light LMR” and/or “token resistance” is a normal thing to see or expect, maybe even for Top Guy. I think that’s why a lot of guys can’t get you here… they know some LMR, every single time, and some of those were beautiful moments. So they can’t follow you when you say Top Guy doesn’t get “real” LMR.
But the “you will see walls, but don’t crash into them” is the thought that made me move deeper into this discussion. And of course, “just keep your game such, that her foot is off the brake,” … this is such good stuff.
I like the phrase “bouncing off resistance.” That is in stark contrast to “pushing against resistance.” Bounce off, swing your dick, “sexually optimize” away from pushing, and toward arousal.
I’m in a trance about all this right now… I am fascinated.
It makes me laugh how many times I have stared these concepts in the face but never seen them.
And, if I am wise… of course I get that there is SOOOOOO much more I still cannot see. Of course there is.
BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE FOR YOHAMI!
I like “experimenting” and “looking for arousal.” Good terms.
“swing your dick / pay attention to what she responds to” -> “experiment and look for her arousal”
Re: walls and resistance. The fact is that when you’re experimenting and looking for her arousal, and you consistently identify her arousal, double down there, then retreat and keep experimenting, coming back to the previous arousal spot you found when it pleases you – the walls and resistance are nowhere to be found. You identify them a mile away because they are ‘not arousal’ points. So walls are ‘not arousal points’, they only become resistance when you try to escalate through ‘not arousal points’
And the reason why this is Bottom Guy is because ll the Bottom Guy knows is ‘not arousal’ so he doesn’t know the arousal point even if it’s in front of him.
While Top Guy only knows ‘arousal points’ so why would he waste any of his time trying to push through a ‘non arousal’ point.
Beta / Bottom guy see the girl as a well guarded ‘non arousal’ and wonders “how to get there” “maybe I just need to push more here, what is that” often flying on the face of the actual arousal spots. With you, funnily enough, you have found many of these spots on many girls, including the ones that you didn’t bang, which is what I started calling “puzzle pieces” you know, these ‘magical moments’ when something clicked. That’s arousal. Do it more. Sex happens frenetically fast there.
And Top guy / alpha sees the girl as a net of arousal points or a bunch of clits tied with strings. So the question is not “will she have sex” but “do I bother to get on this”, so that’s your screening, finding her arousal points and rubbing them to see how much you like that. That place where you’re not actually that invested and you’re just fooling around is the detachment / self amusement / outcome independence part. That’s the “non willingness to push against a resisting girl”. Why bother? you rub the clit and have sex when you want to – you’re not going to spend the night rubbing her elbow, trying to fuck her knee. You know where things are. The rest is enjoying the moment.
And that above, if you do that congruently from the ‘hi’ is what flips every girl, and their friends.
All snuggle, no struggle.
Hey, man. Good to see you here.
We were using that line almost two years ago. And now… I am beginning to know what it means in the moments right before the close. AND… how if we really get “more snuggle, less struggle,”… we’ll have more closes.
Nice work Nash feels like you got into a flow state with this one.
Something tells me more great things to come for you on this trip
I have a date tonight with this girl, first time I have seen her since.
And I have a 3rd date coming on Thu with a girl I haven’t even kissed yet (believe me, I have tried). I’ll get to practice this arousal/pulling thing more with her.
And a 2nd date with Miss Hot Pic on Friday. I am going to take her to the “country club” bar.
And maybe a 2nd date with another girl on Saturday… this girl is a mix of sad/sexy/sophisticated… really turns me on. Very lovely girl.
We’ll see. This is a good trip for me to “train” and learn.
“I didn’t do it with persistence, I did it with experimentation.” -Nash
yohami’s genius being interpreted by nash’s brilliance.
this is groundbreaking stuff here. amazing field report.
Hey Riv… are you feeling “breakthroughs” too? You/me/Yohami have been in this conversation for coming on two years… and you have known Yohami much longer than I have…
Are you starting to “get him” more? Is it starting to make sense?
it’s starting to make more sense theoretically. in practice, i have baby E and skinny miriam and warsaw girl taking up almost all of my “girl time”, so i haven’t gone on any new dates in a while. actually, i did have an instadate last week that went NOWHERE and i was thinking after, what did i do wrong? i really have no idea. maybe if i write a detailed field report like yours, yohami could figure it out.
also, yohami **is** helping me BIG TIME with some texting i am doing with ana and another new girl, so that’s amazing.
“I hadn’t even hinted I was going to fuck her”
This cracks me up every time. This is a girl you picked up because you want nothing but to fuck her, and now she’s naked on your bed while you are eating her pussy. Ask her when she knew you wanted to fuck her, and when she knew she may have sex with you. Then go back and reconfigure the whole story to match that data.
That should help, it puts things in context.
She was a YES girl early on. The little resistance and aprehension is that you moved a little before her pace so she had to catch up (in arousal) which you did (clap clap) properly.
If you move this new thing of nuance back, and it starts earlier, and you’re looking for her arousal since the beginning, then it will happen that ‘magically’ there’s no resistance ever because you’re moving things around several meters before touching any wall.
Still, you’ve gone such a good mileage here.
You’re right, she might have been a “yes” girl. It’s not what we usually mean when we say “yes girl,” but she might have been.
As for “I hadn’t even hinted I was going to fuck her”…
What I mean was… I was fully clothed. I had my pants and shirt on. It was funny to me that she was naked, asking for a condom, and she hadn’t seen my cock yet.
Hey Cawa… I didn’t add your last two comments. I don’t want this to get too specific the details of this girl. Your last two comments were more about this girl.
And THAT ^ is already showing a pattern.
When you are all about a particular girl… SHE IS THE CENTER, and you are in orbit around her. And that… is not attractive to girls. We talk about TOP GUY here, and top guy doesn’t focus on one girl too much. He focuses on himself. And he knows it’s a PROCESS, which is about HIM, and about talking to lots of girls… and any particular girl will/won’t like his show… but is about him, and making his show better.
And this blog isn’t not about some random girl… and what she wants. Who cares what the girls want. This is about us. This is about game. The girls are just case studies.
If you want to talk about game, and about themes, that is welcome here. But this isn’t going to be Q/A about particular girls in these comments. I’ll delete that kind of comment.
We can use specifics… and tell stories… all the guys here do that… but the comments here aren’t to go off about particular girls.
>> I was just getting the seriousness of the makeout started… and I wasn’t sure if this was really on…
It’s funny, no matter how many notches I get, I still have the trepidation in the back of my mind every time I start kissing a girl in my bedroom that I’m not going to fuck her that night. And then I usually do. But somehow, the fear never subsides.
>> She likes me, she’s just terse via text.
This is why I throw the “write 1/3 less than her” mantra out the window most of the time. The *majority* of my girls are terse texters. Writing less than them would be somewhat impossible, so I write double what they do, but try to stay away from novels, and it still seems to work.
>> at one point, as I had her on her back, she reached up with both of her little hands… and choked me
This has happened to me multiple times recently, and almost always with Asian-born girls. I had the same reaction as you. I didn’t love it, but I was amused. I wonder if girls have some sort of reverse thinking “If I like this, maybe he’ll like it too?”
Hey Pancake. I just had a side-convo with some guy named cawa… and that guy doesn’t know what a good comment looks like (not yet), or how to be cool to each other in this space (and we are very cool to each other here)… but you do.
Super refreshing to come back to this from you. This is more of what I want this space to be about.
>> the fear never subsides.
Yeah. I’m with you. It’s not quite a fear… but it is always uncertainty. I get smoother, but the self doubt is still there.
And then… doubts about getting ghosted. Definitely on my mind… even with the girl in this story.
>> This is why I throw the “write 1/3 less than her” mantra out the window most of the time
Yeah. This is real. A guy called Red Introvert and I passed this back and forth on Twitter this week a little… he was pushing “be mysterious.” And I get that, but that is not what I see with most girls. That would mean “nothing happens.”
And part of that is me having some work to do before I am Top Guy. And it’s about how I manage my leads…
But it is also about feminine girls. Feminine girls are not going to slobber all over some guy. Introverted girls are not going to do that… not at first.
I think the “American Game” school of thought, and the emphasis on “club chicks” has made that more of thing than it should be.
>> I was amused. I wonder if girls have some sort of reverse thinking “If I like this, maybe he’ll like it too?”
Yeah. Maybe. I’ve had a lot of girls in my bed… and she is the first one to do that. If she were bigger, I think I would have made her stop… but since she was so little, it was cute.
>>that is not what I see with most girls. That would mean “nothing happens.”
I have a similar problem. I can’t “pull” girls through text. I have to be the one moving the seduction forward with texts. It feels sometimes as if I am “pursuing” more than I should, but nothing happens if I just wait for a girl that I didn’t lay to message me and to keep the conversation going.
It’s not just the amount of text but what you’re texting. If you text the right things the girls text more back. I just had a little chat with Riv on this topic. Should be easier with some case examples
I would add the timing of your texts can be as important as the content. Text timing is a big avenue for push/pull.
For example, it’s often good when working a lead to have her be the last one to text at night…where you reply the next day. Keeps her wondering and feeling the tension
yohami has some KILLER examples of fixing my texting with this girl ana, and explaining why i was texting wrong, and how to text like a top guy.
i need to post them on my blog, or here.
Please do rivelino. It would be a KILLER learning opportunity
Good stuff Nash, congrats. Basically you’re talking about turning a maybe girl into a yes girl, I agree that’s the mindset to have. I had a French girl give me LMR last night… first date and she’s in my place, no resistance. I escalated until she put on the brakes, then I chilled. When she said she should leave, I said probably, but she stuck around to make out anyway. Finally, after wavering and getting really turned on, but not allowing to push further, she decided to get her coat, which again I said was fine, then walked her out. I didn’t run the car off the road… we’ll see if that gets her out again.
Great! I think what Yohami is talking about is not just for LMR. I think he means the whole game is you swinging your dick and going for arousal.
This right here.
I also think Yohami means there is no LMR because by the time you are in the bedroom you already know what causes arousal and what doesn’t. Then, you won’t be pushing against those walls because you already brushed against them while seducing the girl and already know what causes arousal and what does not.
Yohami. I remember you say that Top guy rejects girls. What are the Top Guy reasons for rejecting girls that you screen for?
The “top guy reason to reject a girl” is that you’d rather be banging another girl instead of dealing with bs from one.
Abundance also means rejecting a bunch of girls. Every time you put energy into a girl you’re negating that energy to the rest. When you have a pool of available women, every time you pick a girl for the day you said no to all the rest. So why did you do so?
Because it wasn’t ‘on’ enough. Compared to the one you picked.
This is mirrored in female psyche with their intrasexual competition.
I understand. You talked about how you started with a top guy frame even before you are living a top guy reality.
So won’t rejecting girls who are not on enough means: (1) you’ll only be picking up Yes girls and not deal with Maybe girls? (2) if you think you are a top guy but in reality you are still work in progress, will you not just end up with zero girls? It is especially for us, the guys who daygame, because girls do not have a way to know we are cool based on our reputation or our place in the hierarchy.
So in your experience, do girls stick to you more when they feel you are willing to walk out on them? even if you are on the outside a normal average man who is working on himself? does the internal belief that you are a top guy makes that much of a difference even if on paper you are not yet there?
I guess my question is will you get more and better girls because you are rejecting girls or at least willing to reject each and every girl, or do you end up with less girls but better experiences for you?
Acting like top guy creates top guy things, acting like bottom guy creates bottom guy things.
There’s not a reality where acting like bottom guy leaves you with more abundance.
(Well there is – I can come up with examples, but let’s stick to the basics)
You know how moods are contagious. And how frames incite others, say, if you’re dominant submissive people will attach to you, if you’re masculine feminine girls will attach to you, if you’re childlike children will attach to you, if you’re a pushover abusers will attach to you, etc. To avoid metaphysics let’s just call this ‘games people play’. You’re playing games, all day, at all point, you find people to play the game with, you’re playing their games, and they are playing yours, they are telling you what are the rules of their games, and you’re telling them yours. Nonstop. This is all we do.
And all the games are the ways we use to get the actual things we need, material and emotional. So all the above is a negotiation.
Playing certain games with certain type of rules makes you feel in different well defined ways.
For example, in broad strokes, dealing with someone who is abrasive and imposing makes you feel ‘small’. Dealing with a small defenseless delicate being makes you feel ‘protective’. The frames and games from others make you feel things, which makes you switch your frame to match.
Even if you’re a good person, if a pushover interacts long enough with you, you’ll end up becoming their abuser.
We play games.
The courtship is a game, and it’s predefined. It’s simple – the man wants to fuck the girl if she’s hot (receptive) enough, and the girl wants to fuck the man if he’s top (dominant) enough. To that there are a million variations including some that subvert the whole thing, but at the basics, it’s penis and vagina.
The girl is pushing and make you react to ‘taste’ how much of a top guy you are. And you push and make her react to ‘taste” how receptive she is.
So you’re always stimulating her taking initiative and rubbing against her (experiment, swing your dick) (leading, roleplaying, flirting, push pull) to arouse her and make her receptive.
She in turn is always giving you hoops to jump, walls to avoid, goals to reach, and putting herself in situations where you can make your moves, all that to see if you go hard or soft, up or down, if you’re confident or weak, etc.
That’s male/female and nature and there’s nothing you can do about it.
All the girl does all the time nonstop figuring out if you’re top guy or bottom guy and all her behaviors and responses to each are predetermined. With flavors, but pre-scripted, hard.
What all this means is that ‘top guy’ is what she wants by default. So.
And bottom guy is what she rejects by default, so any inch of it backfires. Increases walls, resistance, aprehension, disgust.
Top Guy frame comes from having authority, power, abundance, and skill. The result of these previous traits is dominance, self amusement, outcome independence, a tendency to cross boundaries in a non-caring, bordeline abusive playful manner that comes with usually blunt honesty and humor.
That frame, and it’s associated behavior, is a game, and when you play it, people play it with you.
In girls, this means arousal.
Not as a trick or a mental thing or something you have to chase. Slow down the frame:
Interacting with a top guy IS arousal.
Arousal means receptiveness. Willingness to engage more. Wet vagina. Hunger.
Top guy is attractive.
So all this to tell you that ok, if you’re in scarcity and bottom guy, there’s NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL that acting in any way in concordance with your actual reality is going to leave you with more abundance that moving your core to top guy frame, even if an inch at a time.
Yes, being willing to walk away works even if you’re at your core, bottom guy. Because there’s not a situation where ‘not being willing to walk away’ is more attractive than ‘not being willing to walk away’
Being able to push a girl, or neg a girl (playfully or not) IS attractive, and there’s not a reality where not being able to push a girl, being unable to set boundaries is attractive.
There’s not a reality out there where being bottom guy is conductive.
So back to you.
“So won’t rejecting girls who are not on enough means”
First what things mean –
“reacting girls who are not on enough” means you’re giving more time and energy to girls who are more into you. Just like with a single girl you’re looking for her arousal and not investing energy trying to go through her ‘non arousal points’ because you know there’s only resistance there, and why would you spend time pushing through resistance when next to it there’s a clit you can rub that opens the whole girl – when dealing with multiple girls some are more open than others so these are the ones you deal with more, and give your energy to more.
But also that thing I just described above IS top guy behavior, it IS a game you’re playing with all the girls, not just the one you’re giving the attention to.
The other girls you engaged in contact but then stopped or slowed down your attention to, they are STILL in the game with you and just watched you walk away from them, when they were not that ‘on’, or started playing games with you, you walked away. So you walking away was your response to their ‘non arousal’, you didn’t chase because you have better pussy, which is all Top Guy, which they find attractive, so they get aroused. So when you do the cycle back and ping again, now they have changed and are more aroused and receptive, and want to try again but this time making things easier and more favorable for you.
Do you see it?
“(1) you’ll only be picking up Yes girls and not deal with Maybe girls?”
Maybe girls are yes girls that you just need to spend some more time with. If you have the time, then you spend it there. Till some other luck girl turns into a Yes then bad luck to this one, she can have another chance tomorrow.
” (2) if you think you are a top guy but in reality you are still work in progress, will you not just end up with zero girls?”
You’d end up with zero girls when you are congruent with bottom guy.
Say you forget about all this and start playing a game where the girl has the power and you’re begging her “please stop begging games, just tell me what to do”
“It is especially for us, the guys who daygame, because girls do not have a way to know we are cool based on our reputation or our place in the hierarchy.”
Precisely my issue with Daygame is you don’t have a proper platform to learn top guy behavior. You have to stop a girl and convey all the stuff then she walks away then you iterate – but there’s not enough feedback loop.
This is different if a guy who is already alpha does Daygame because the behavior is already there – he’s not trying to acquire it through pickup.
The other issue with Daygame is that you’re probably in it because you’re already out of the top guy reality and accepted bottom guy frame and now you’re trying to catch the girls while they move fast and loose and no top guys are watching.
All this is bottom guy and I assume this is why it takes thousands of approaches to get leads. Which is insane (that’s thousands of girls who told you you are bottom guy, and you decided to iterate instead of to change).
So my advice if you like Daygame is to find other venues where you can develop top guy frame and then apply it to pickup. Other venues like, probably the sort of thing you’re not naturally inclined to do (or you would be doing already) like organizing stuff, being the center of attention, boss of something, contextual alpha in a job, or a hobby, plus doing highly aggressive masculine stuff, maybe combat sports etc. The frame has to change, it’s up to you. It won’t change on it’s on by doing pickup, specially if you’re coming from the wrong frame, as that’s a game you’re playing, and then the girls also play it with you, by pointing effectively that you’re bottom guy and not giving you time of the day or a playground to play.
So more power to nash for pushing through with his thing but man on man if there are faster ways to get this done.
“So in your experience, do girls stick to you more when they feel you are willing to walk out on them?”
“even if you are on the outside a normal average man who is working on himself”
Yes, every inch counts.
“does the internal belief that you are a top guy makes that much of a difference even if on paper you are not yet there?”
Yes but you get shit tested. The shit test will come every time there’s an incongruence between your self belief and your behavior vs your actual reality and context. And when the shit test comes you either perform like top guy or you’re out. Also reality and context gives you plenty of opportunities to perform as well. And then there are actual life sized important things to solve, and the whole thing that is you. And who you are in these things. All sums up.
That said a girl is just a girl and she’s not God, she’s fickle. She has specific needs and all is rather small and petty. This is not about you becoming the god of greece so you can score a girl – girls are not that high, they are all, rather, very low.
All I write out is just a guide, or an attempt of guide on how and why to do the switch in frame, which is just the basic, very basic step that makes everything else click.
“I guess my question is will you get more and better girls because you are rejecting girls”
Yes plus a thousand.
Rejecting girls is more attractive than chasing girls. Plus a million.
“willing to reject each and every girl, or do you end up with less girls but better experiences for you?”
You end up with MORE and BETTER experiences.
Abundance leads to abundance, and abundance produces quality (because it lets you pick).
Thank you Yohami, that was probably the most important post I have read in a looooong time, I needed to know those things more clearly.
[a tendency to cross boundaries in a non-caring, bordeline abusive playful manner that comes with usually blunt honesty and humor.]
[Being able to push a girl, or neg a girl (playfully or not) IS attractive, and there’s not a reality where not being able to push a girl, being unable to set boundaries is attractive.]
Till now I do not understand why “borderline abuse” is attractive to women. I think of myself: if someone came and dominated me and crossed my boundaries and negged me, I won’t like the person. So what is the reason that girls like such behavior? And do “borderline abusive” behavior only works with girls? I imagine if you are dealing with men in a workplace or something, and you become too dominant and not prosocial, they will teach you a lesson and you will lose everything. Maybe only girls like assholes, but then why does borderline abuse make women wet? I imagine a leader is not abusive to his tribe, he cares about them and is graceful in dealing with them, so that is the top guy of a tribe behavior, I imagine it is graceful clemency but strong dominance only in very extreme cases. Is my thinking totally incorrect? And why would the opposite thinking be more correct? I can think that in my life every time I try to take more charge, be the person who decides in a group, people get pissed so I have to calm down and just follow to appease everyone so that it doesn’t lead to tension then the group would exclude me. So I think that asshole dominant behavior is not effective in groups, and I cannot see why it would make women wet. It just doesn’t make sense.
[when they were not that ‘on’, or started playing games with you, you walked away]
How does this relate to you and her frame clashing? When do you consider that she is playing games so you walk away? And when is it a normal frame clash?
[when the shit test comes you either perform like top guy or you’re out]
How does a top guy respond to shit tests? Like if a girl says “You say this to every girl” or “You are too old”. I mean I know specific lines to say, but what is the mechanism, the way of being that these responses to shit tests that a top guy has?
[“reacting girls who are not on enough” means you’re giving more time and energy to girls who are more into you.]
Ok, is this a reframe for rejection, so you think in your head when girls reject you that they are too much work to turn on compared to other girls? A top guy doing daygame, won’t he get rejected a lot more than finds receptive girls, just like we all do, where we might get 19 rejections to get 1 phone number or 2 on some days?
I’ll reply in more detail later, but in the meantime:
“Till now I do not understand why “borderline abuse” is attractive to women”
Because it’s about polarity. The key is ‘borderline’:
When you are having sex with a girl, what is your dick doing exactly?
Just go there.
Is your dick crossing boundaries?
Or respecting boundaries?
Does it do so with the intention to hurt, or to cause and gain pleasure?
Is your dick thrusting as it pleases, or is it asking for permission?
Is it hard and pushy an decisive?
“I imagine a leader is not abusive to his tribe”
Look outside instead of imagining, that helps.
Authority is not abusive in nature, but it’s where abuse happens. The abuse is attractive because it comes from authority – so you can be authoritative without abuse. But still.
Authority means that your boundaries matter more than the people you have authority over. Your decisions matter more, too.
Why is it attractive to women? because women like men. And men compete against each other till a winner is decided, and the man becomes the center and top on the tribe, in command.
And ‘playful dominance’ is one of the traits that flourish there.
“I imagine it is graceful clemency but strong dominance only in very extreme cases.”
No don’t imagine: look. Go to tribes and look at the leaders and pay attention.
This is important:
“every time I try to take more charge […] people get pissed so I have to calm down and just follow to appease everyone”
– How often do you attempt to take charge?
– Is this a stablished group, aka always the same people with already stablished dynamics? say, your family? or are you attempting that on many places?
– Who is ‘people get pissed’? is it the same person, or always someone else gets pissed?
– Why do you submit to appease? who is everyone?
My gut reaction is that you’re talking about a specific group where you are at the bottom, and what’s next for you is to quit that group.
[My gut reaction is that you’re talking about a specific group where you are at the bottom, and what’s next for you is to quit that group.]
Yes, it is a specific group. You are right, the frame I am coming from, I think it is a bottom guy frame, so it feels every time I try to succeed, something holds me back.
I felt something like this might be the real problem. I already made plans to leave my city and go live in a new city next month, and I want to start it from top guy frame because otherwise I will end up in the same situation just with different people doing the same thing around me.
Or respecting boundaries?]
Is there a right way and a wrong way to do this? I don’t want to offend girls, I think being this way, which I imagine is being domineering, will piss them off. Or is them being offended what you mean with a shit test, and if you stay acting like a top guy, girls soften and become submissive? I think this is what you said, when you are dominant, girls become submissive. So they get offended and make a tantrum first, then if you stay true to yourself, they change to submissive. I just imagine they’ll tell me to fuck off because they will think I am rude and not nice, then just leave.
[Precisely my issue with Daygame is you don’t have a proper platform to learn top guy behavior. You have to stop a girl and convey all the stuff then she walks away then you iterate – but there’s not enough feedback loop.]
I do not think being in an authority situation teaches men how to become top guy. Just today I saw an owner of a company who has money and employees, but he was trying to please people, talked in a lower voice, and I can feel he wanted people to like him.
I like Daygame because it is very difficult. It may be the most difficult type of game. In a club, you can raise your status by how other people react to you. In Daygame, it is one on one, you’re either top guy or not. So that pain and rejection again and again is said to make a man out of you. That is really my goal more than girls (which I love). I am tired of not being a strong man, where people treat me with disrespect. It hurts. So I am going to change it, no matter what. Things can’t stay like this forever.
>> Games People Play
Love that reference.
For those not in the know: http://rrt2.neostrada.pl/mioduszewska/course_2643_reading_3.pdf
It’s a heady read, so you might just want to read the cliff notes, but it explains a lot about human behavior.
Frame is game, and Yohami’s write up above on top guy frame is a great breakdown. Worth a read
It’s difficult to put into words what we do, and different explanations can all fit the same event.
From your description, I think you could equally say that what you did was this extremely simple formula:
1) Make a sexual move
2) Back off and let her come to you
3) repeat until fucking.
Also foreplay and sexual moves are highly contextual. It’s extremely difficult to describe what these moves are. And they are very contextual, and can vary widely.
Foreplay might be having a hand on her leg and chatting about each other’s lives, with concern, and laughter, for an hour.
It might be laying on your back and repeatedly playfully unsnapping her bra, while she puts it on and on again.
A sexual move that is resisted is SO difficult to describe. You can use the word caveman pejoratively. Or you can just admit that a move is a move is a move. A move is an escalation. Escalation is wanted, escalation is unwanted – both true. But in big or small ways we escalate. Sometimes, from the outside, it looks like a big way. Reaching behind and unsnapping her bra, playfully, when she didn’t expect it. You can call it caveman, to highly the fact that it’s an escallation. Of course IMMEDIATELY after that you back off. She has LOADS of space surrounding the escalation. No need to let her know she knows where the door is, because your entire vibe is completely playful and non-threatening. Inside you are having so much fun, an laughing. Your eyes are laughing. Your mouth most likely is laughing. She too is likely often laughing.
But a move is a move is a move, no matter what name or spin you want to put on it.
Sometimes the girl will offer less outward resistance. Sometimes her PREFERENCE is to have a bigger more dramatic resistance be physically overcome, as that is her PREFFERED style of dance. It’s not really up to YOU, or your seduction style. Some girls prefer more romance, some more comraderie, some will have various blends at various times in the dance.
We do what we do, and only after the fact try our best to put it into words.
I really strongly believe that we can’t encapsulate the seduction dance with words that even hint that we let the girl pace our advances to the point that they are not even advances – that all the caveman pressure dissipates into her desire.
No no and no.
Our advances are part of what she NEEDS. Almost always.
Just that sometimes the advances look very subtle, from the outside. Sometimes they look very overt.
What’s the difference between putting your finger on her clitoris and rubbing it, and putting your nail on her open eye and rubbing it?
How would you explain the differences in the ‘resistance’ you’ll get on both moves?
How would you explain this to the guy who ‘naturally’ want’s to put his nails into her pupils and is wondering if he should just press forward more?
Think about this.
I think you’ve been too good with women for so long that you’re not perceiving the struggle that other guys go through, maybe never had to deal with it.
A lot of guys are having issues at understanding ‘arousal’ vs ‘disgust’. Think about it.
It’s really something.
So what would you tell them?
When I say that we do what we do, and only later explain, I assume that I’m speaking for others also.
For me seduction has always been simply two people doing what comes naturally. I don’t recall ever planning out the stages or moves in my head as the dance actually proceeds.
For me, personally, that would be counter to the dance itself.
I realize that there are dancers out there who have dance moves, and their dance looks good. And then there are dancers who have dance styles, not moves – it’s always freshly created on the spot.
I’m of the improv school. If it’s not improv, it’s not a fun connection. It’s not real. She ceases to exist. I want to be so in the present moment of now, that any pre-planning is impossible.
I never plan or strategize.
But after the fact I can always explain.
“what comes naturally.”
All comes down to that above – but that’s akin to ‘be yourself’ and doesn’t help when, say, you’re ‘naturally unattractive’ and when you ‘push’ the girls run away and never return, and your natural habits and tendencies are sabotaging you.
“that would be counter to the dance itself.”
Nope. Think of skilled musicians, good storytellers, performers, or even good lovers (think of yours). Technique and know-how can be subordinated to ‘what comes natural’ and amplify it.
“I want to be so in the present moment of now, that any pre-planning is impossible.”
And then you need your skillset.
“I want’ this to be difficult”
Get out of that place man. For real.
I read this old post of yours, Yohami —
[girls can see you coming miles away. girls can see what you are doing from the very far. most of the time the result is already decided, and the girl already knows where she wants to put you in, and most of the times she will just let you do your thing, just to see you try, just to see your will to get her. so less is more. if there wasn’t a chance, chances are you are not going to get her by trying harder or playing it “clever”. put 10 cents of alpha instead of huge amounts of strategy]
It was from 2011. So do you believe that learning game, meaning tactics and strategies and structures, has a limited effect on whether we end up with a girl or not? So the real truth behind it all is who you are as a man: if you are a man who the girl sees as above average Top Guy, then you would get that girl even if you had a normal “boring” conversation with her? And if you’re an average Bottom Guy, even with the best tactics and strategies and lines and body language you will not get the girl? So do you believe that learning game amplifies a Top Guy’s interactions, but doesn’t really help a Bottom Guy? Then, why learn Game and not just become a better man without learning tactics and strategies?
[so forget about chasing her and remove the stress on the “closure”. stand there, walk to her, talk to her, touch her, enjoy it, be the guy, let her play the girl, game over. if it feels “right” she´ll be yours. the less forced you make it, the more it will feel right for both of you]
Does this mean we should be authentic, and just let girls we have chemistry with, that feel right to have sex with, come to us? A fear this idea gives me if that we’d then end up with less girls because those who were hesitant we will just let them drift away rather than lead them to the bedroom. What do you think?
Let’s put it this way: Game is how Top Guy normally operates.
Being “authentic” from Top Guy means running superb God Like game.
You have to learn Game because that’s how we learn – we imitate. That’s how you learned to talk. But the end goal is to change yourself into Top Guy: the real act you’re doing is imitating to become, not just imitating.
When you approach it like that, everything changes.
That change is what Im preaching about.
That thing from 2011 – the translation is this: She’s been exposed to men for a long time and all men want one thing and one thing only. If she’s interacting with you it means she sees the possibility to have sex with you. So instead of playing hide and seek and acting like you’re a Game magician trying to manipulate her into having sex with you, stand strong, and go for her arousal. Standing strong and going for her arousal IS a mechanic, it’s a game, but it’s not a ‘trick’.
All Game is an attempt to extract, study and emulate the behaviors of the guys who are naturally good with women. So, imitate the behaviors, learn what you have to change in your persona so these behaviors are natural, and become the kind of man who is naturally attractive to women.
That above is what I label ‘top guy’. Again I could be labeling ‘Alpha’. Or “top guy is the frame where Alpha can be born”
“And if you’re an average Bottom Guy, even with the best tactics and strategies and lines and body language you will not get the girl?”
Correct – but more importantly how are you going to pull the body language alone, not even the lines etc if you’re starting on the wrong frame?
” So do you believe that learning game amplifies a Top Guy’s interactions, but doesn’t really help a Bottom Guy? ”
Game is Top Guy behavior.
Game can help dissolve bottom guy, if you do it with that intention. If you don’t, then you’ll have your identity dissolved (hopefully) after you fail enough.
“Does this mean we should be authentic”
You have to be authentic. That’s the only thing you’re going to be able to sustain on the long run.
And if being your authentic self is not enough to win, then change yourself.
That’s easier than it sounds.
My goal is to be that guy, more than use game as another way to beg for pussy and to put a front.
I was reading Icy Seducer’s blog the other day:
[She liked him up until the point he took out his phone. The phone must cost a minimum of $135. In the UK it must cost a minimum of £100. Many pick up artists say you don’t need any money to be a successful pick up artist. That is a lie. It’s just totally false. I’ve been acquainted with poor pick up artists and the way it works is you need to save up for a decent phone and at least 3 decent outfits. This is just a requirement. No matter how poor you are, you have to save up for the phone and outfits. Some really serious but broke pick up artists only use the decent phone and outfits when it’s absolutely crucial. When they’re going about their day to day business, they wear cheap outfits and use a cheap phone, to prolong the life of the decent phone and decent outfits. The good phone and outfits are for when they go out to do cold approaches and for when they go on dates. The outfits remain new looking if this is done properly.]
Yohami, you have been on both sides: before having money and after having money. In your experience, are the results of being a top guy better when you have money? I think it shows successful dominance. Or is it more as a good thing but being a top guy is so rare and good that it almost doesn’t matter? Like a girl with a perfect face and body but small tits, so it is great but if she had big tits it is even better but the difference in how stunning she is would be like 5%. What do you think about the effect of being a rich top guy vs a “normal wealth” top guy?
Money / visible social status is a strata. All the girls are looking up (materialistic hypergamy) so the guys with money and contextual power are screened first – they are screened for behavioral traits (behavioral hypergamy).
If you don’t have money you’ll have to close that gap somehow, but most of the time it just means you wont have access to most women.
(No, stopping them on the street doesn’t give you access to most women, you’re just making them screen you, but the act of pickup doesn’t magically reset all their history and what they are looking for.)
If you have money but no behavioral top guy in you, you’re screwed, probably worse than if you didn’t have money, because you’ll get either nothing or the leechers.
If you don’t have money and want to try to seduce women, go to where money doesn’t matter: social clubs, travel / hostel / pubs, anything where everyone in the same room has a similar social status. That isn’t the street: go for closed environments.
The rule is that girls gravitate towards focal points that are in the center of their social groups, and the guys there are getting all the attention. Be there.
Ok, so if I understood correctly, it can be categorized as 3 things:
Top Guy Frame => Top Guy Behaviors => Top Guy Results
The more of the 3 you have, the more and the higher quality women you will have.
In a closed environment, you can show all 3. The results being that you will be the center of that closed environment.
On the street, you can only show at best the frame and behaviors. But it’s just you and her, there is no context to show “results” and being the focal point / center of a social group.
“there is no context to show”
There’s plenty of context, just none of it is specially favorable (and likely why the guys who have trouble generating a favorable context go for this route)
There’s context: how you dress, how you talk, how you stand, how you speak – all the million tribe signifiers are there, if anything, maximized because her natural impulse will be to mistrust you, you’re in a setup where the default is rejection (go figure why you picked this starting point). So your window of opportunity is small, and through it you must convey all your context with mastery, on a second or less
“But it’s just you and her”
Before there’s a you and her, there are infinite layers of bullshit in the middle to be sorted out with mutual screening.
Anyway – if you talk to her with confidence and dominance, and you have winner vibe, she WILL react to that. If you’re afraid she’ll react to that too. She’ll react to anything you throw at her. x10. And mostly she’ll react to her own agenda and how she sees you fitting there. For some girls, you’ll be just what they need right now, regardless of what your state is.
[Let’s put it this way: Game is how Top Guy normally operates.
Being “authentic” from Top Guy means running superb God Like game.
You have to learn Game because that’s how we learn – we imitate.]
I hope you write a book not just on texting, but on Game in general. A big problem I see is that almost all Game advice is from bottom guys. So when we learn it from them (1) we internalize bottom guy beliefs, and (2) a lot of it will be good game mixed with bad game, because of the bottom guy beliefs. So most game we learn is bottom guy behavior sprinkled with top guy behavior. I remember you wrote that every inch of top guy makes a difference, so those guys get some results and think it is wonderful, but they cannot see their bottom guy behaviors. So if you wrote a pure top guy game book, that will be something so rare and so unique in this bottom guy industry, and will help all of us learn game from a pure top guy frame from the beginning, rather than ending up a mix of top guy and bottom guy that is lost and weird.
““I want to be so in the present moment of now, that any pre-planning is impossible.””
And then you need your skillset.”
I chose to learn the piano by pure improv, for two years.
It was purely a personal preference choice, and not one I would recommend to others.
I’m of the pure improv school, means that I realize that there are other schools.
I’ve also mentioned often that I do recognize that I’ve subconsciously incorporated skillsets into my improv.
My flow moment, to me, is my primary motivation. I spent two years being a crappy piano player, because I prefer flow moments to being able to play the piano.
It’s personal. It’s what matters, to me.
I have lots of references experiences to draw on.
If I was actually trying to teach, I’d have to say gather reference experiences.
My references experiences for the last decade or two are being devotedly and obsessively loved.
So when I go on a first date, I just assume and expect that’s going to happen.
It’s kind of how you describe. I ignore all fedback other than what I’m used to. The rest is noise – mistakes in her head. She just hasn’t seen me correctly yet, or is not in her true best self yet.
Much of what you and I say explicitly overlaps.
I try to use different frameworks and be at odds with what you say because the frameworks are nothing but frameworks – they are no substitute for reference experiences.
You and I are not offering mental maps – we“I want to be so in the present moment of now, that any pre-planning is impossible.”
And then you need your skillset. are offering our own personal interpretations of our reference experiences.
Our job is to get other guys to develop their own reference experiences, authentically.
Without substituting maps for experience.
You and I are not offering mental maps – we are offering our own personal interpretations of our reference experiences.
Our job is to get other guys to develop their own reference experiences, authentically.
Without substituting maps for experience.
Good tips from the middle on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX-T7OKKlzM
Ya, that guy is a good teacher.
I listen to a lot of WTF Marc Maron interviews of comedians, and one way that comedians learn their craft – I suppose the foundational way – is through improv on the spot, and being thrown into situations in which they must perform.
Comedians say it takes about 10 years, on the stage, to learn the craft of being funny.
Now of course you can and should study other comedians. But you can’t copy any comedian – that would not work. That can’t and doesn’t work.
Each guy HAS to develop and find his own authentic style, through feedback. It can and does and should take a LONG time. If it doesn’t, then you are stuck in the process of learning – there is more and deeper to go.
One thing I think a lot of guys miss is that feedback can happen within LTRs and MLTRs – not just on the street, or during the initial seduction stage.
LTRs actually should always stretch a man’s ability to the limit – if not, he could either be dating a hotter girl, or more girls.
[…] hates it when I say stuff like that… but this works for me again and again. My first lay of this trip, the girl asked me the same thing as I was about to walk her into my building, I said the same […]