Breakfast Date (A Lay Report)
How do you set up a date to get a girl into bed? Common wisdom says: Meet late, for “drinks.” One drink, and then maybe another in a more intimate venue. Then bounce her back to your place. Everyone knows “drink dates” are the sexy dates, right?
I like Game stories that open our eyes to possibilities. This story is about an everyday possibility that shows the fundamentals are much more important than the venue, liquor, or the time of day.
I took the girl in this story for a first date for coffee and conversation at 9:30 AM on a Tuesday morning. We talked. She wasn’t quite finished with her coffee when I said: “I am going to the bakery to get some bread. After that, I have to go back to my place to get my books for school. Come with me.” She agreed. We bought bread. I took her back to my place…
We had sex.
If I were Roy Walker that would be the whole story. But since I am me, I have more to say.
We’ll call her Miss Breakfast. And I met her that week, via daygame (of course).
“SO CLOSE TO ME.
“She was tall, tight jeans, great ass, slow walk. I opened her, she checked me out, and when she answered my first question, she basically PRESSED HER BODY UP AGAINST ME.
“SEXUAL TENSION. Wow.”
— From my notes when I picked her up
She is not (actually) that tall, but it was a crackling good set. I have opened thousands of girls and very few of them step in on me like she did. She both turned me on and was a little too much for me.
Despite being somewhat intimidated, the set went well. I took her number, and we started texting.
She was messaging me a lot. More than just responding to my messages, she was “reopening” me.
Maybe she felt she’d found a “bold man?” Maybe she was a “yes” girl?
That week I was working through a ton of new leads and had six dates with five girls. I was juggling timeslots, and she was saying “nights were busy,” so we set up a lunch date.
As the day arrived and I got a text from her. It came unexpected and at the time of day that often means a girl is cancelling. “I can’t.” Guys will say “that always means…” but this time, it felt like an honest cancellation. She sent several messages with times to reschedule. I had three other new girls to date in the next few days, so I wasn’t overly desperate or eager.
HER: I want to make up for yesterday
I haven’t written about Miss Healthy (wonderful girl, and a +1 from November), but I also had trouble getting her out. At one point I offered to meet her for a “breakfast date” before work some day. As she ended up in my bed one evening after she finished work, I didn’t get to test my “Breakfast Game.”
A breakfast date is totally irregular, but that was part of the appeal. There is a myth that “lunch means friendzone” (amateur comment), but I have closed several girls over lunch (I am not an amateur).
Could I meet and close a girl for “breakfast?”
I took a shot at the breakfast setup:
NASH: Have you ever had a date with a strong man in the morning before?
NASH: I am happy to see you at night
NASH: But if you are so busy…
NASH: We can still have an interesting date in the morning
That would mean I would (in fact) get her out before things fizzled. But more than that…
Good seduction is about masculine/feminine tension. It has nothing to do with “nighttime” or “drinks.” Guys argue, but they never really try the alternatives. They pay more attention to the booze than the fundamentals of leadership and escalation… so they don’t know what is possible.
I showed up to the café early and managed to snag a good spot with side-by-side seating (more important than “drinks”). I pinged her and she responded quickly saying she was on her way.
I didn’t really know much about her: I knew she was 23, and was going to college to study pharma. I had these assumptions: That she was a little bold, that she might have some sexual experience, that she might be a “yes girl.”
I looked up, and… there she was.
She looked fantastic. Big, beautiful, black hair, full of curls (and a few, faint highlights). She wore a black down jacket over a big, flowing sweater. And… a very short skirt. Big thighs. Knee-high boots. Great look.
I met her eyes, and she paused a little. I stared at her. She gave me no giggle, no “little wave,” only a cold, confident march over toward me. She took off her coat. She had already bought herself a coffee. She turned around, sat down next to me, crossed one sexy thigh over the over and…
The date began.
This girl was all attitude and eye lashes. She wasn’t a sweet girl or full of charm. She had edge.
She was never rude, but her comments had a consistent coldness to them: She was “not interested in other people.” We talked about the typical Japanese “kawaii” cuteness and she said “I hate those girls.” As for boys and dating, “to be in love is annoying,” she said, “I always want to be free.”
You get the picture?
I bantered back at her with a similar edge, challenging her, “breaking rapport,” disagreeing with her. I touched her (a little). I was more serious (and less sweet) than I might be with a softer girl.
Did I like her? It’s amazing how we talk so much about girls but rarely ask that question.
Yeah, I did. I liked her crispy energy. She was a bit of a “bitch,” but never directed that energy at me. And she was very sexy, down to the beautiful perfume she wore that morning. I also had the feeling there was more to her than what she was showing me.
I wanted her.
I announced my plan to go to the bakery and then back to my place. I think the quick transition and lack of “comfort” fit her style. There was surprise in her eyes as I put my offer to her – “Come with me” – but she was in.
She was cold and didn’t volunteer much on the way – in part as she is this “difficult” girl, and in part as taking her home this fast was a sign I was a “dangerous man.”
More cold independence in the bread store. Strained conversation on the walk to my place and into my building. A few more comments to keep us going as we rode the elevator up to my floor. Inside… I had made sure my apartment would be toasty warm.
I put on some music. She sat on my couch… and busily toyed with her phone.
It was time. I put out my hand and she pretended not to see it. Hey, I said. She looked up, still pretending not to see my hand. Come here. She took it and stood up. And I gave her “that look” and…
“No,” she said, as I moved in to kiss her. She looked at me with disapproval. She would say “no” a lot that morning.
I said, okay. And she was tossing up obstacles. She was a bit agitated. “What do you want?,” she said. I want to get to know you. It’s was true.
She used her phone to translate and showed me: “Friends with benefits?” on the screen. I told her I didn’t like that term.
I tell every girl I date that I like the term “Lover.” I am a seducer, not a “fuckboy.” I want to be a lover to these girls, not a “friend” with “benefits” (that phrase is cynical).
A lover gives a girl three things: Attention, affection, and sex. As her English isn’t that good, I said it slower, and demonstrated each part. And when I got to affection, and I was softly pushing her hair back and stroking her cheek… she melted a little. Her tone had changed.
She turned her face as I got close to her lips. I moved in by her neck… and she took it. And I put my lips on her skin and ran my hands over her body, down to her hips, up under her sweater…
(Notice how the escalation > drinks.)
It was around now when she told me she was on her period. Her eyes bulged a little when she said it. I assumed it was another “hurdle” between me and sex, and maybe a test. I was going to play on as if it was true. But we could make out. I could get her hot. I could show her I was for real, and maybe she’d come back another time.
Maybe she said something about a “condom.” Her English wasn’t good, I wasn’t sure. And the look in her eyes said that “no, I mean, maybe, no, no, well, maybe, yes, but, no, no, no…” kind of thing.
I pulled her to my bed… and she complied.
And I pushed her back and really tried to kiss her, and she said, “no” again, “only for a boyfriend!” Her eyes snapped as she said it. She was a little too serious, and also… pretending.
Pretending. That is a huge clue to what I think about this girl. She isn’t “fake.” She is just more, and different, than what she pretends to be.
She squirmed around. Pinning one arm to the pillows above her, I slide my free hand down to her waist, under her sweater, found her skin. She was a bigger girl than I was expecting (maybe even chubby), very soft.
She was still “pretending” to be tough. She smelled fantastic. I wanted her. I stared a lot. I was serious.
I had her shirt off (no resistance), and her bra, and her very large, D-cup tits spilled across her chest. I sucked on dark nipples. And I grabbed a fistful of hair (to hold her head still) and pushed my face against hers and finally got her tongue in my mouth. (Turns out, “being her boyfriend” wasn’t really required to kiss her, after all.) It was good. And she was getting into it.
As I ran my hand across her belly, she grabbed my wrist and push my hand down under her tights and between her thighs.
She is not as strong as she pretends to be, but she is no “virgin,” she has a bit of aggression to her, and definitely some sexual experience. And even though it was only 11 AM, I now had her very hot. With her pushing my hand into her panties, and the look in her eyes, I slipped a finger into her… and she was sopping wet. And so into it. Kissing me hard now.
Are you really on your period? I had no signs yet. And she looked a little childish, less certain. She wasn’t lying and I assumed this was maybe the last day.
You’re ready, I said. Her eyes burned back at me. She was. I went to the other room, got a towel. I pulled her tights and her panties off in one slow movement.
Again here she said something about a condom. She was stern. So much emphasis on condoms. I never hear this from girls.
This detail is important, as I think this is her showing both some sexual experience, and… that she has had some bad experience where a guy pushed too hard for taking her “raw,” or that she has been made pregnant before, or who knows. Very serious about it.
Yes I did have a condom (of course). And within reach (in the case I keep between my bed and the window). I pulled one out. And made a show of it, so she could see it. And laid it on the bed next to her.
And I slid a finger in her, and she loved it. And then another. And no blood. And I worked her with my hands, and she moaned, and she was softer with me. Warmer. More real. And then, yes, a little bit of blood.
And she took my other hand and put it on her clit. Clit girl: That is a type. That she was so explicit, directing me on our first time in bed (very rare), also taught me something about her.
The seduction was a little harsh, and rushed, and there was very little tenderness. But she was ready, and like a good solider I got naked, and stroked my cock hard, and…
And I reached for that condom. Tore it open, and rolled it on, and…
And she checked to make sure it was on. She reached down, and felt my cock to be sure I was wearing a condom. I have fucked a lot of girls and girls never do that.
But the condom was on, and…
The sex was… just okay. Which is unusual for me, actually. I have really fantastic sex these days (it’s the Tantra thing). The sex with Miss Breakfast lacked any depth, and I could literally feel the difference. I had fucked her… but she hadn’t really surrendered. Sex can only be so good when she hasn’t really “opened” to you as a man.
And yet, a conclusion: Yes, you can close a girl, dead sober, first date, on a “breakfast date.” Of course you can.
I like this girl. And I am not here to “check boxes.” But in terms of the pursuit of the fundamental truth of Game: Alcohol and “darkness” have absolutely nothing to do with what is really important between a man and a woman.
Don’t get distracted by “nighttime” or “drinks.” All you need for a sexual date is: You, her, some privacy, and your ability to escalate.
We had had very fast sex. And after: It was quiet and a bit awkward.
Mystery has his claim that “solid Game” means you should not try to fuck her before you’ve had “seven hours together” (to bond). It can be done (much) faster than that, but his point is basically right: Fast-sex will often leave you “naked” and exposed in uncomfortable ways… not always the best for everyone’s self-esteem or if you want to see her again.
I gave her a wild experience, but it left us – post sex – in the same cold space we started in, and without the sexual tension to keep us warm.
I wiped myself down, and pulled my jeans on. She dressed quickly. She looked amazing, as before, but was even less friendly.
Back down the elevator, and almost silently, we moved together toward the café where the morning had begun.
It was only 12:30 now. I told her I wanted to see her again. And I said goodbye.
Some of our messaging:
HER: I wish I could be friends with you
HER: Do you want to be a lover with me?
NASH: I have many friends
NASH: You told me you wanted to be free. I understand it and respect it.
NASH: If you want to spend some time with me…
NASH: I will talk to you. And touch you. And fuck you.
NASH: Yes. I want to see you again.
HER: If the timing is right
NASH: I can’t tell if you’re dangerous or vulnerable
HER: I’m just a college student
NASH: Again, I mean sex, but I mean all of it
NASH: Attention, affection, and sex
NASH: When we were alone, I gave you all three. And I always want to give you all three.
HER: I’m sorry, I’ve been busy for a while
HER: I will contact you when I have time again
The New Year season in Japan is for family, and who knows if she is really busy, but I have not seen her since.
On a basic level: This story is a great example of execution and possibility for a man that knows what is required in seduction (masculine penetration, leadership, a place to lay down together) and what is not (drinks, or even a free evening).
On a more personal level: She is a fascinating girl. A fist-full of clues, half-slipping through my fingers… and another fascinating foray into female psychology.
She is a type. Sexy. Young, but not innocent. On our first date together, she gave me all that “I want to be free” and “love is annoying” kind of talk. She is a little icy and hard. Her very-careful handling of me in that moment when I put the condom on shows something serious in her past. She is physically soft, but something about her history has knocked some of the girlish “magic” out of her.
I am intrigued by her, and even writing about her turns me on. I want her. And I want the chance to “show up” for her, so she can feel me being solid and real and more than “friends with benefits.” If she’ll give me the time, I’d like to take this girl deeper than she allowed me to do (so far).
With Miss Breakfast, the end of the year has been quiet. I have shown her lots of “pull.” I have shown not only intent, but an ability to lead and a very clear sense that I know what I want.
But I can only “pull” so hard before I snap the line. And a man can only lead the willing.
I’ve been inside her, but she is still “closed” to me. I like so much of what I have seen, even the rough, calloused quality of her edges. It is always “maybe” with girls, but I hope I see her again.
Hey Nash – Glad to hear about your adventure.
She sounds interesting in the fact that she stepped in during the set, is annoyed at love/relationships, and didn’t open herself to you.
She sounds like she normally does the choosing, escalating…the fucking…and she isn’t used to the other way. Seems like she’s having feel her way through this new dynamic.
A few thoughts:
There is a strong case that grabbing drinks at night gives the highest probability for sex BUT there is also an argument that if a man has his game and fundamentals down, throwing a curve ball with lunch or coffee is actually the better way to go.
For example, a week ago I met a Russian for coffee at 9 am and invited her back after an hour because it was on. “Just because I can’t doesn’t mean I don’t want to. I wasn’t expecting anything like this (blush)”.
Saying goodbye at her car her eyes were dialited, mouth open, rubbing against me like a cat in heat, and I was teasing her on levels that’re borderline criminal.
+1 a day later with 0 resistance
From my POV, the reasons for this are, most girls don’t have expectation for being swept off-their feet and they are less on guard for lunch/coffee.
A little bit like Daygame pickup vs nightgame pickup
A real question to ask, “is the booze (aka plausible deniability) for her or you?”
In my personal experience, it was mostly about me. Ego had to be checked.
In a fast seduction, in my experience, buyer’s remorse can be prevented by doing something borderline BFish after sex. Examples: lunch, take a walk around, etc. I think I read that from Janka and I found it to be true.
I’m surprised you didn’t pace the walk back, “It’s interesting when two people meet and get intimate fast…(take it where ever you want)”
“fundamentals are much more important than the venue, liquor, or the time of day.”…I couldn’t agree more
Hey Sundance. Happy New Year, man.
Hmmm. You know, that is interesting. Maybe. At one point she was grabbing for my dick, and I pushed her hand away and she made a face. You might be right on this.
Between you and I… from the level of “screening for a certain kind of girl,” that’s correct. But from the level of creating sexuality, and actually getting there… I don’t buy it.
It’s like saying online guys trying to get girls to come to their place as the first meet: Yes that would be a high % play for sex, but because only a certain kind of girl is going to respond to that play in the first place. High %, low VOLUME (as you turn off all the girls that think that is an insultingly bad offer).
I don’t really see it as a curveball. I think a girl WILL respond to the fundamentals as much OR MORE than to “novelty.” I am “all in” on the importance of the fundamentals.
Just doing the fundamentals well, is so thrilling for a girl (and for the player, too), she doesn’t need “novelty” on top it all.
I agree girls would be “surprised” by being SWEPT OFF THEIR FEET in a daylight date. But again, I think a girl is surprised in EVERY instance where she is swept off her feet. That should be the goal… and the focus.
I love that you said that. And I think that phrase is really missing from most of our expectations for Game and seduction. If we aimed for THAT, we’d all be much more successful (and the world would be a more beautiful place).
I think you’re on to something here too. The BOOZE isn’t for “plausible deniably” as much as it is for “HIS COURAGE” – or so we say. He needs booze to get himself to escalate… which is the key fundamental that is unlocked when he gets drunk enough to make a move.
Skip the booze. Just make the move.
Unfortunately… booze is not really “courage,” it’s a numbing agent. He is less sensitive, literally more “dull,” which kills a lot of his potential as a seducer. For a lot of guys, it’s a net positive trade… ACTIVELY playing in a low level of skill is “better” than being paralyzed and not making a move at all.
The booze IS for him. To spur him into action… and ACTION is the fundamental that gets her turned on.
She was really remarkable, man. It was a “hard one.” And I am feeling pretty skillful these days, but she was difficult. She still is. I don’t know if I’ll see more of her. That part of why I am writing about her… writing her out of me (to some degree).
THIS ^ sounds fantastic, BTW.
And I have seen you absolutely blow girls minds in broad daylight on the sidewalk, so many times. You, of all people, know that booze is secondary.
I think daygamers in general, should find it easier to see how sober, “broad daylight” seduction is not a strange idea at all. And yet… the London Guys are very into the booze component. That is a artifact of their culture more than what is essential to Game.
The point of this post was to help strip out some of the “cultural artifacts” of the various factions in Game, and get to what really matters. The essence.
Your Russian sounds exciting. Viva Sundance.
The basic template for “breaking the rules” in any skill is:
Once you’re good enough, you can break the rules.
The reason rules exist is so newbies don’t try to schedule breakfast dates like “oh I thought this is just what you did”.
The point of my post is that I did not break the rules. I followed the rules. Exactly. The rules that count. This is why I get laid on lunch dates. Or afternoon dates. Or… breakfast dates.
“Take her for drinks” is to totally misunderstand what the rules are.
I am not saying newbies can “get laid easily” over a breakfast date (although???). I am saying that that same newbie won’t get laid over “drinks” either… unless he begins to focus on what is important.
Sit next to her. Touch her. Lead her. Get her alone. Escalate. That is what gets guys laid (which is not my only goal, but I know that is a big part of what most of us want).
First off, it’s wild how so much of introductory game material leaves out tension/energy. Even Yohami doesn’t explicitly mention it, but it’s what he’s talking about when he says “make her feel something.”. “the more you are the man, the more you are the man.” – it’s the energy we feel in our bodies.
I’ve once heard Zan ask how do you say hi to a girl without saying a word. I think you’re doing that at a high level with how you’re building sexual relationships with girls while essentially having something like a language barrier. As I see it now, it’s all in leading, escalating, grounding the tension, being with the tension.
Incredible how much the girls will do part of the work for you when you remain comfortable in the tension.
I have a friend all he does is have a good job, minds his business, goes for want he wants, and is extremely comfortable with eye contact. I can’t even say he is incredible with girls, the girls practically do all the work for him, but he sure is great at taking a girl when he does want her. He doesn’t even understand when I try to tell him he is great at tension is the key to his successes. He’ll look at you like “what the fuck are you talking about? Just go for her if you like her”. He doesn’t have the faintest idea what “game” as we know it is.
Now, while knowing all this tension theory. I tend to cave in the moment. I break the eye contact (out of being unable to contain the tension, not from a place of comfort.). I start trying to bring up conversation (from a fear of now wanting the atmosphere to be dead). So, I’d like to know if you have suggestions for staying in tension, and grounding it, and not letting the fear of rejection let one fail to escalate?
Also, years ago, I’d have asked “what do you say to girls on a date”, now what I’d ask is how do you create the right tension between you and the girl when you’re together? And how can you sort of gauge when it is the a good moment to escalate.
Agree. On the the “After Breakfast” post you talked about how mainstream community tries to avoid “wooo.” We can’t talk about “Energy” or even “tension” (which is easier to understand) if we avoid “woooooo.” The deeper I get into Game the more I understand “woo” just means “advanced stuff that most guys aren’t ready for.”
For basic guys reading this… just read it, take it in, go practice… and see if any of starts to make sense when you see things happening in the field.
I always PAUSE for “1.5 seconds” on the open, before I say anything. I put my hand out… and just stare. She knows what that means. So do I. On my best sets… she rips into a huge smile right away. It’s “on” before I say a word. That is all deeper, better communication than anything I might say.
That is tension. Flirty tension. Serious tension. “This could lead to sex” tension. The is “the conversation” as Lance Mason would say.
That “being with the tension” is huge. If you’re doing that, seeing that, feeling that… you are way ahead of most guys.
Yes. 100% this right here ^. Yes.
It is that tension, and the “grounded out” part (that you can HOLD it). That you see it, and don’t flinch. It is amazing when someone can hold tension. High value men can do it (alpha CEOs, military guys, criminals, yoga masters, etc).
ADVANCE NOTE: In sex, or even in amateur porn… when the feeling cranks up, she will “turn her head away.” Maybe just her eyes. Often both. Why? She is overloaded with the tension… breaking eye contact, and/or “spitting the tension out” off to the side… very common. She is diminishing the potential when she does that.
You can increase sexual intensity by maintaining eye contact as you fuck. And I basically force her to keep looking at me (not always, but maybe 30+% of sex). And the girls love it, have huge reactions, but I have to actively keep prompting them: “look at me, look at me, yes, yes, like that, wow, WOW, WOW, yes, yes, hey, stay here, look at me, yes, yes,” Almost always bring me closer to climax. It’s amazing. This is all stuff I learned originally from John Wineland.
Eye contact is HUGE. I could say more, but it’s pretty “wooo.”
This is YOUR CONTAINER. As the man, you are the “CONTAINER,” she is the “CONTENT.” How solid are you as a container? If you want to see MOAR of her, don’t let her leak out. That starts with you HOLDING it.
It takes practice. You are training your nervous system (credit: John Wineland, Deida, Brian Begin).
A fireman is comfortable running into a burning building, right? Was he always like that? No. He TRAINED HIS NERVOUS SYSTEM until it almost felt good… or it did feel good… to “run into the fire.”
I gave a few examples above.
As for practice, just holding eye contact. You can do it with strangers. Hold eye contact. If she doesn’t look away (often because you’re creating attraction), say “hi.” And then… keep holding the eye contact. This was a big breakthrough for me… those “hi’s” to strangers. I am still impressed when I do it.
If you’re making out with girls… spend more and more time staring at them. They will say “what?!” and don’t flinch, hold it, stroke her hair, tell her she looks beautiful, hold the stare… if you’re for real, you’ll see her POP OPEN… the reward for holding that tension.
And outside of Game, embrace some CONFLICT. “Hey, I don’t like it when you talk to me like that.” And then, hold the eye contact. Not with everyone. I am diplomatic when I need to be, but I tell people how it is, and then look at them. Own the statement. Own the reaction. Own the space I am in for all of that. It’s mine. It’s a kind of territorial DOMINANCE. Not (always) aggressive, just ownership.
Call people out when they are being manipulative, not necessarily aggressively, but don’t couch it, say it clearly, and then hold your position. “Hey, I feel like you’re trying to rush me, and I don’t like it.” “Oh, oh, Sir, of course not…” “It is what I feel. I want you to give me some more space.” And hold the eye contact. This is BEING DIRECT (lots of tension there). Watch them back up. Be gracious when they do. Own the whole experience.
All of this will STRETCH YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM.
This is a different question. But fear of rejection… that is TENSION, all internal. Go walk into it.
I have plenty of self esteem, but I sometimes say, “Let’s go get this blowout.” And I suck up my energy, ball it up, go give that “hot bitch” a proper penetrating stop. If she blows me out, don’t couch it. Don’t chase her, but own the rejection. “Ummm, yeah, okay.” Don’t dismiss her reaction. Take it all. Own it.
That is MY REJECTION. It’s mine. I own it. Watch me go get it. That is my rightful emotion, that I created, and it’s big, and not “pleasant” but it’s mine. I made that happen. Drink it in.
That is one way to see it.
Balanced with good self esteem… not every set is a blowout. When she hooks… that is yours too. It is all yours. Your energy created it. All of it “stretches you out.”
Can you BUILD EMOTIONAL CAPACITY?
Really good notes on TENSION from Brian Begin/Fearless Man:
“fundamentals are much more important than the venue, liquor, or the time of day.” – this is so true. And becomes clear when one sees that it’s the energy between the guy and the guy that matters most.
But it’s rare that one’s early exposure to structured game teaches that “creating positive tension (that you feel in your bodies) and then going for what you want” is what is fundamental – every other thing you’re “doing” is almost always secondary to how you’re “being”.
How else do you get to close someone who doesn’t speak the same verbal language as you.
No one stays in Game long enough to teach the really big, beautiful stuff. They “turn into Gold” and move on before they can bring you with them.
I am still here, growing, dragging guys with me. I am in a great period of Game right now, learning a lot. Lots of experiences.
Krauser was really showing his “gold” (sounded more and more “high end” and often even “Buddhist”) – but he bailed. Sneaky Tom was too insecure, so he was stuck teaching the “basics” forever (and all the beginners loved him for it). Paul Janka’s final comments before marriage were very high end (he was a real genius). My New Years post two years ago when I quote Braddock was all quoting his high end stuff (Patriarch, real alpha stuff). Brian Begin is a very good example of a guy that has been around long enough to teach pure Gold (I’d love to collab with him). Zan too… although he came at this via romance, and was on the “highend path,” skipping basic masculinity, so he is hard to learn from. Lance dissolved into “golden rays” (I saw him in person 4 years ago… he was radiant)… he was always completely tuned it (total genius).
Meanwhile… all the “smash and grab” guys coming up, repeat the same lower level, “grasping at coins” kind of wins. Too self focused. Too much structure, no sense of “art.” No dis. I was at the level (somewhat). I respect that stage. I do. It can open doors to better things… but…
Basically everyone in Game is at the beginner level. A few guys get into intermediate and think they are advanced (they don’t know what advanced is). It goes way, way beyond “notch count.” Real advanced guys tend to graduate out.
TDDdaygame is another great example. He was too good at Game, and liked having a GF, so I never saw him “single.” And he’s basically done with Game. And he is so solid. If he had stayed “single” for longer… he’d learn more, become more articulate, teach more.
It is hard to get anyone to stay long enough to talk about anything other than “never double text” or “don’t take her to dinner” and all that BS. All the beginners want the “gimme the coins” level teaching. Or the anti-Game like “dread” or any of that “ego” content. There is no market for “advanced” stuff…
I just read Om Rupani’s book. THAT is where a guy like me can learn. It was fantastic. I am practicing “Patriarchy” (Deida, and owning structure) and really learning a lot… things I can apply immediately to Game, even early in The Sequence – at the pickup, the first messages, the first date, etc. Stuff I am learning for the Tantric Sex part I can apply to the first date (during dinner as much as in bed). All of which makes me more “grounded” and makes my approaches better.
Hard to teach this stuff to guys that haven’t been actively practicing for a long time.
But if they read notes from guys that are deeper… they will FEEL some of the truth of those comments, often in real time, as they are with a girl… and then they’ll “get it.”
I channeled things I learned from Lance, real time, on dates, for years. I still do.
Insightful comments here, Nash. Your stories are why I keep coming back to this blog.
And as an aside, your pinned tweet from 2020 about one of Brian Begin’s videos was really a game changer for me. It’s striking how Brian makes the guys make eye contact with the girl and makes them stay through whatever tension and fear they feel and get them to start enjoying it (sometimes, you’ll even see the girls start to melt and get overwhelmed with the tension that they break the eye contact themselves).
I believe that video is a must-watch for everyone who has spent years reading game theory. It brings the information from your head, to your body. It takes you up to another level.
But I do see I have a lot to learn from you also, especially on the idea of “opening her up”/ “being a lover”. But I guess that’s not for everyone, some just want sex, but some of us want to build actually connections and healthy relationships with people that’s more than just sex.
Keep the stories coming, man. It’ll click for me soon.
I recall 2017/2018 when you used to have disagreements with Yohami about “being the man” and “taking the lead”, and how people misunderstood his idea of how when you’re a man radiating sexual energy, girls will melt for you. People mockingly called that “Justin Beiber game”. I recall you used to call him “Zen Master Yohami”. But now it makes sense the points he was trying to make, although he didn’t get into all the “opening the girl up/tantra” parts of the sexual dynamics. It really is Buddhist in some way. There’s a lot to learn from Eastern philosophies in relation to being an integrated human being.
It took me a while to understand Deida’s language too. But once one internalizes the idea of holding and grounding tension, it all begins to fall in place. Pat Stedman speaks a similar language too, although it’s colored with a bit of modern psychological tropes, which are all insightful, btw.
And it’s awesome to see your progress along these years. Do continue to rock on, brother.
When I talk about this “tantric” stuff I am doing in bed… I am doing exactly this.
I hold the eye contact, match breath with her, match the breathing to the thrusting, and make her hold eye contact… and its “UNLOCKS” a lot of extra physical pleasure, and much, much more intimate.
It is a lot of work to make her hold eye contact. Like you say, she “get overwhelmed and looks away.” I have to bring girls back, over and over. Back to my eyes. Back to “the moment.” Don’t let her off the hook… and it gets soo intense.
What Brian is doing is the beginning of what Deida and Wineland would call “Yogic Sexuality.” At it starts fully clothed, but can continue into mutual orgasms. I first learned this in “intimacy” training with Wineland (I didn’t realize how sexual it would be when I was practicing with him).
If you’re on this path, you’re going to get it. “FEEL, FEEL, FEEL.”
That is intimacy, and quickly becomes very personal and HOT.
Neat. I’d be looking out for this.
I see where I constantly fail though, I fail in the first two steps; or more precisely in the second step.
“She feels what I am feeling.”.
At many points, I feel vulnerable, afraid, and ashamed and afraid that she feels I feel that way. I feel my eye contact gives it all away.
Lord, if I get comfortable with eye contact ever, then I’d have been blessed with a sort of miracle.
That’s where I run off. That’s the story of my life. With everyone.
But I’m learning, albeit slowly. Thank you, Nash.
Keep at it Choad. I can say it’s difficult to do, having practiced for the past month (taking a break now to develop other things). But if you can practice holding eye contact on the street/in the office/wherever you are, with anyone, and then break it off after the 5 second mark or so, it really is good practice. Commit to try it for a few weeks or so. Whenever I remember to do it, it makes me feel significantly more grounded and present with the other person, sexual intent or no.
This blog is where it feels like where my experience is really shared with others, to a huge degree. Same as on DeliciousTacos’ blog. But the growth I’ve seen from guys here gives me hope that huge progress can me made if I keep at it.
Thank you, again