Here are the final notes on my NYC daygame trip… but first, a confession:
I promised to approach 30 girls per day, for five days. I was targeting 150 girls that week (I had my reasons for that number). I did not do that. I promised I would, and I did not. I want to own that.
When I tally up the numbers (and I just did), I talked to 127 girls in six days. That’s a lot of girls… but 127 is not 150.
I am disappointed in myself that I made a promise and didn’t keep it. And… that I was unwise enough to make the kind of promise I made (more on that in a bit). I can do better and I know it.
Making promises is a great way to hold yourself to the fire. My commitment did exactly that. And while I feel very good about that trip on many levels, I don’t want to gloss over the fact that I said I would do something and didn’t do it. I want the folks around me to trust me. And perhaps more importantly, I want to trust myself.
Alright. Confession is over. Let’s get on with the post.
Here are my final numbers:
MON: 28 approaches, 1 lead
TUE: 27 approaches, 4 leads, 1 date with the Japanese Teenager
WED: 33 approaches, 2 leads, 1 i-date with the Preacher’s Daughter
THU: 17 approaches, 3 leads, 1 date with the Chinese Fashion girl
FRI: 14 approaches, 3 leads, 2nd date with the Chinese Fashion girl
SAT: 8 approaches, 1 lead
So. 127 girls. Not bad for a week. It was an unwise commitment, but it did the job it was meant to do: I talked to a lot of girls. And I got three women out on proper dates. That’s good work.
Why 150 approaches in a week? That’s kind of insane… why do that?
I had a very short window to get laid and that was obvious to me. I really wanted to claim a notch while I was in NYC, and dammit I tried. It’s totally possible to get laid in a week (or even an afternoon), but the shorter your trip, the more you’re relying on luck. While “fortune favors the prepared mind,” it’s hard to be prepared when you’re new in town. It takes time to become a “master of time and space” in a new location. “Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics.” I made excellent progress everyday, but I didn’t have my local logistics locked down when I arrived.
I knew this ^ would be true before I left, so my plan was to compensate with extra work.
Since time was limited, the thing I could most control was my work output. So… I worked hard. And because of that work, I had some great adventures. 127 girls in a week is a bit ridiculous, but it did the job. I earned some stories and some time with cute young girls.
No I did not get laid. But the biggest issue I have with the week was the terrible approach-to-lead ratio. It’s obvious my leads were very low given that amount of work.
I took 14 leads that week. That would be very good for a week… until you consider the number of approaches it took to get those leads. That was about one in nine approaches. That sucks. I am painfully aware of that. That is worse than at home (certainly), and worse than I did in Tokyo. But… in terms of total leads, it’s great (great = 14 leads is enough to get something going). Again, even with a terrible conversation rate, the plan worked (to a point).
Should you get more than one lead in nine/so approaches? Yeah. You should. That’s beyond obvious to me (at my level of skill/experience). In this case… part of my problem was that I freaked myself out.
Part of the reason why I didn’t hit my goal (and why I could do it now, even if I think that’s a foolishly over-aggressive work rate) is that the sheer weight of that commitment stressed me out. Days before I arrived I was already nervous. 30 girls a day is hard enough, and it’s even harder when you’ve made a public declaration about it… and feel serious pressure to hit your number, every day, for five days.
Putting that kind of pressure on yourself makes your sets more “tense” and “forced” and that likely had something to do with why my approach-to-lead ratio was not great at all. I make no claims to being especially good at this, but I was even less-so with that pressure looking me in the mirror each day before I went out.
The girls weren’t seeing the best version of me. That’s for sure.
However… as the days went by, I loosened up.
This post is mostly all “business,” so I’m not telling the stories about all the great interactions I had in those 127 approaches. Yes, I got blownout. But my wings could tell you all the times I “fell in love” or was charmed out of my sneakers by some daygame girl. There was the crazy-fancy power-shopper that I had a stare-down session with, the Chinese girls in the 50s dress, the girls that blushed… or made me blush.
And then there were the leads… and from those leads came four dates with three different girls in six nights. I dated four of six nights I was there. That’s pretty awesome. I think that’s better than I expected. This is the part of the story when I get proud. That is not easy to do. There is some skill there. All cold approach. No “pipe-lining” (in advance of the trip) via online game. Street hustle only.
And of those four dates, I had two of those girls back in my room. Not bad. If the Daygame Gods
weren’t such cunts were more generous… I would have had my notch.
As it is, if you’re a skeptical spectator, I would imagine this would be more evidence that daygame isn’t worth it. I talked to 127 girls and didn’t get laid. True. And if you’re one of the best in the world, I could also see you thinking this was lame… for those few guys, I humbly concede. There are men that are much better than me. That is for certain. Other men could have worked less, and gotten laid. Very true.
Once I got past the first few days (Monday was painful and Wednesday afternoon also sucked), I had a great time. Both on the street and on those dates. I did. Some juicy excellent moments. Overall, I am totally satisfied and came away more confident.
And while I broke my promise… I made progress in terms of my experience and education. And I collected more evidence that I can do this whenever, wherever. I worked very hard. And with more time, I know I could have produced more. And I know that if I could do those exact six days over, knowing what I know now, but starting over with all new girls, I also would have produced more… because I would have the confidence and logistics of a man with some local experience. That matters.
It was a great experiment. I’m quite glad I did it.
The place to get good at daygame is where you live, NOT while travelling. Period. But… if you want to “test yourself,” test your game, “away game” is exactly that. A wild test of your ability to track, trap and close in a foreign land.
And beyond the experience with the girls, I had some great interaction with Runner. He and I have been friends for a long time, but we’ve never spent that much time together. I would have traded some of my results to ensure that time with him… but that wasn’t necessary. We winged each other, and improved as daygamers in each other’s company. And I also met and gamed with David Burn of LongBurnTheFire… also a great guy, and another chance to learn and share. And move forward.
It was cool to share the streets with my wings that week. Big thanks to both those guys.
So, NYC was awesome. It had volume, and volume equals opportunity. For a guy (like me) that likes Asian girls, the quality of girls was surprisingly similar to the girls in my little foggy town in California… but there were more girls in general (NYC has a much bigger population than my town), and perhaps a few more Japanese girls, in terms of percentages (which I loved… Japanese girls… oishii desu).
And back to my commitment:
30 girls a day is totally doable. In Japan, I had no such commitment, and did 30+ on several days. But five days in a row?? I’d never tried that before… I do not recommend it.
30 girls a day, for several days in a row… is too much.
In other news, I’m going to Tokyo early next year. And I will approach a ridiculous number of girls while I’m there, I am sure. But I won’t force myself to do 150/week. It may happen. But it won’t be forced. That was a mistake I made in NYC that I won’t make again. Goal setting is a great idea. But too much pressure is counter-productive. I will be wiser about that in the future.
30 girls a day… is too much.
About the stats:
Time to fly back go mother Russia ??. A non-jaunt trip resulted with 2 daygame lays/2 new flags ?? ?? (3 dates & 32 approaches). I’ll be back and hopefully get the ?? flag. pic.twitter.com/hMItdjXGwj
— Seven Daygame (@seven_dg) November 24, 2017
See Seven pulling two lays in 30 approaches? I have never run game like that. Not even close. Obviously not on this trip.
In general, the stats I report are lower than other guys in the community (I’m thinking of Krauser, Roy Walker and most recently, those stats above from Seven). I’m not overly interested in comparing my stats to other guys. I want to compare my stats to my life BEFORE I had any daygame talent… and compare how I’m doing now vs how I was doing last month, or last year. The only competition I’m into is me vs my former self… and I’m winning there. No doubt.
With that said, there is a “story” in why my stats show low return on investment (I’m not complaining). I know I’m not that bad at daygame. I’ve seen enough other guys in the field to know I’m pretty solid. But I’ll come back to this point in some other post. I have some theories.
BELOW I have more to say about this trip… In addition to my experiences with the girls, the NYC trip inspired some more thoughts about game and life. Below I go over a few loose notes I took on my plane ride home.
Thank you, NYC. Thanks to my New York wings, especially Runner (great to hang out with you, man). Thanks to all the beautiful girls that danced with me on the sidewalk. It was another great adventure. Another chance to growth and to share some tales with this Tribe of Men.
I love this game. Very proud and happy to be a part of the daygame community.
“Different bait for different fish.” This… is something that’s been on my mind for a while. It was a vague formulation before I went to NYC. I thought about it a LOT while I was there. And will write about it more another time. EX: There is a pattern of how I end up with artsy girls… and with smart girls… and with high-end girls… and with sober girls. Over and over these are the girls I end up with. Both of the girls in my bed in NYC had advanced degrees in art. Fishing for femininity… all three girls I dated there were very feminine. Very much so. I ran Octopus game on them each time. More on this later.
“Leaning back.” The impetus of my NYC trip was a men’s seminar (the first weekend I was there). In an exercise at that seminar I got some feedback that I need to lean back. The man that was counseling me meant I lean in physically. I thought about it a lot, and I think it applies to me at the emotionally level as well, and at the level of attention I give women (but in those areas I’m less certain). I think “different bait for different fish” might help me make more sense of it all. Or maybe not. And then on the street with David Burn, he also noticed I “lean forward” (physically) a lot. David advised me to push my hips forward a bit to get me to lean back. That was great coaching. He has excellent presence on the street and I have been working to improve my posture and… lean back a bit more. I’ve asked Sundance to keep an eye on me and to speak up when I’m too “forward” with women on the street.
“Octopus game.” This is related to both of the points above. I have hinted at this a bit, but I’ll go ahead and spit it out now… This is about my “style” of seduction. The way I envelope the girl, both physically and emotionally. I’ve talked about the way I run my dinner dates… sit side by side, her facing the table, me straddling her, a leg on each side of her bar stool, literally wrapped around her. If an octopus could date cute Asian girls, I’m convinced it would look remarkably like I do on dates. It was the way I wrapped around Fashion Girl at Roof Bar. Or the way I held Siren when we slept. Or the way I used to feed my ex on dates when she/I were together (we’d only use one fork at dinner sometimes, we’d share plates and I’d feed her every bite). And the way I lean forward. I overwhelm these girls with words, with closeness, with knowledge, with leadership, with dominance in bed (girls are almost always passive/reactive with me… Even when they are active, it’s because I make them do it, pull them on top of me, tell them to suck my cock, etc.). Octopus game. Can an octopus lean back? Would it want to? I don’t know. I claim no innovations here… this is a description, not a breakthrough. This is me, exploring me.
“You get more IOIs with a wing.” It was very clear out with Runner that he and I had a synergistic effect when our vibes combined. If we each had an individual vibe of “3,” combined we were 10. And the girls could feel it. Runner said it’s because we’re having an interesting conversation, we’re “awake” on the street, we’re looking around, and we’re predators. Girls notice all that. I like it. I have never been into IOIs when I’m alone… they don’t seem to indicate much (I’d much rather surprise her). But when I get an IOI with a wing… much more indicative of something real. True also when I’m out at home with Sundance and YoungGuns.
“Venue game.” Another thing I took away from David Burn was “venue game.” At first, I hated the idea. I was daygame-centric, and assumed this was some kind of weasel to get out of cold approach. I was wrong. David runs cold approach, but sometimes a half-step removed from the sidewalk… and because it’s not out on the street, it’s a bit warmer. We did some approaches in his favorite venue (which I’m intentionally being vague about, out of respect for him… but the venue doesn’t really matter). I love his idea… I’m trying to find similar venues back at home. Warmer opens means more hooks. I’m 100% into sidewalk game. But David is onto something. I like it.
“Types.” For years I have been complaining that we often are too generic in our advice/discussion about game. We over generalize, meaning… we miss the nuance of “what kind of girl” vs “what kind of guy” and the “type of game” that best suits each combination. In marketing, the nuance of each “type” might be referred to as “segmentation.” But that word doesn’t work for most folks. Talking about “types” is easer for people to understand. I’m going to use that term more. The “Instagram” type. The “Business Girl/Career Woman” type. The “Shy Artist” type. The “SJW type.” Etc. A lot of interesting guys have written about types and I want to do a post on that topic soon.
“5th Avenue.” I did a bit of research and I didn’t see much emphasis on 5th Avenue as a daygame spot. A mention or two of Rockefeller Center, which is exactly where I mean. I was all about it. If I had to do over, I’d do 5th Avenue almost exclusively. High traffic. Lots of tourists. Lots of high-end girls… (goes back to “types”). Best time of day was 3-5 PM. 2 PM might have been good also, but it was hot when I was there (so I avoided the hot part of the day a bit). Gets LOUD at 5 PM… so many busses, but still very workable.
“Vibe by time of day.” You have your personal vibe, and there is also the vibe of the location… and time of day. I am more and more convinced that 2-5 PM is ideal for daygame. Most of us err toward 4 to 8 PM, as that fits our work schedule better (and that’s legit, I get it). But the girls on the street between 2 and 5 are qualitatively different than after 5. They are softer. Slower. Less of the “get home now!” after work crowd. I recommend that interval. I would trade some of the volume around end of work for the “softer vibe” of early afternoon.
“David Burn.” The guy behind LongBurnTheFire is a cool, solid guy. It was interesting to be out with him, I felt like I was learning from him almost immediately. He hasn’t hung out with many community guys, so he never gets real-life feedback. He does a lot of things very differently than I do. From my POV, everything I should see in his game looked very good. Does a mix of direct/indirect. He might prefer less foot traffic than I like. He has studied several guys, including Roosh. Showed me “venue” game. Gave me good feedback on “leaning back.” He’s going to do very well. I’m stoked to know him.
“Jason Capital.” I stumbled into an old product by this guy about body language called “Advanced Body Language Seminar.” I watched/listened to this program while I did some client work in the mornings while I was in NYC. It was very good, and I have been thinking about his “OGSPE” advice when I’m on the street. I’m not sure Jason is coaching anymore. He seems cocky/conceited… but in a charming way. I bet he was very good in game. He’s a smart guy and that was a good product. Not sure that product is still for sale… if you can find it, it’s worth the hour/two to watch it.
“Joshua the Lift Driver.” As I was riding back to the airport to go home, my Lift driver was a Puerto Rican guy named Joshua. He asked how I was doing and I hinted at what I had been up to, he was interested, asked for more detail and I told him. He was then very interested. He went on to school me on game for the whole ride to the airport. Excellent head for game. I think he has studied a bit, but mostly, he comes from a culture that really gets male/female dynamics. He reminded me of Yohami, in many ways (Yohami would like what he had to say). One interesting POV was that he puts a lot of the emphasis on “she is choosing you, just don’t fuck it up.” And that sounds passive to me (and would be confusing to new guys), but I think that’s because he takes his approach for granted. He’s not worried about the approach (or himself)… so the focus is different for him. Smart guy. He’s in a relationship now.
“Gutter game.” On Wednesday of that trip I took my 2nd pass at Gutter Game (which I am not good at). I did three approaches after dinner that night and took the Preacher’s Daughter off the street, on a date, and back to my hotel (no sex). Gutter game doesn’t feel quite right for me yet, but that night I felt very “on.” I was looking for single girls walking around “with their eyes open.” That night is seemed obvious who was ready. And I wasn’t at all surprised when I hooked that girl and took her on a date. I tried this in Tokyo and didn’t go well (perhaps because I was in a terrible mood at the time). Did I just get lucky in NYC? Maybe I should try late night game here at home? I bet this is MUCH better with a solid wing… I’d like to explore this more.
“Morning Game.” We were out on Saturday at 11 AM in Runner’s neighborhood. So many hot, single girls. I’ve never done “morning game” before. It seemed very wholesome. Tons of beautiful girls. I should try more of this.
“Night game vs daygame.” I didn’t drink much on this trip. I didn’t go out at night at all… except to scout date spots or to be on dates. This is a theme of my game progression… I am more and more interested in trading the bullshit and booze of night game for better health/vibe for the next day when I can hit the streets again. In case it’s not obvious… I love daygame so much, I’m not at all interested in wasting time/energy at bars/clubs anymore. I love to drink with friends. And I love to dance (at clubs/festivals). But that’s not about game. For game… give me the day and the streets.
“Tourist Game.” I think the best odds of you getting laid when you are trying to game in a foreign city, is to game other tourists. I’m confident that’s not an original thought, but I’ve never heard anyone specifically say this before. Hitting on tourists is a good strategy if you’re a tourist. EX: Two of the girls I dated on this trip were tourists. And several of the girls I’ve fucked at home from daygame were visiting. You’ll do well with tourists as a daygamer, particularly if you can lead. Biggest disadvantage of being a tourist as a man, is your lack of knowledge/confidence in the local territory… Harder to lead local girls than it would be for a local guy with equivalent skill. You should be better than a local guy that’s low-masculine, low-leadership… but all else equal, his command of the territory will make him better equipped to impress with territorial knowledge and to be able to get around easy and take her home. Non-local guys should look clumbsy by comparison. But if you can catch a tourist, and you lead well, she should notice no handicap.
“Logistical Notes.” Have good logistics, don’t underestimate this. You can out-game a local boy if you have better logistics. Logistics means… Having a good place for sexual isolation potential (private, no judgment, few roommates, close to central transportation to minimize her commute, to make it easier to go home after she has been back to your place, to make it easier to go out near your spot… all reduces friction for your trip). Having a place close to your hunting grounds make is easier to game, saves you time, allows you to pull if you have SDL skills, makes it easy for her to come to you, etc. Once you have your place nailed down, KNOW THE TERRITORY (immediately try all the food/drink/relax spots near your place, different lunch/restaurant spots every day to build a range of options and comfort with those options). You can even use your place as a talking point, and it gives you a reason why you’re out gaming (you live there) and you can accuse her (“why are YOU in my hood?”). You’ll know the food/drink, service people should be able to social proof you (and boost your state), you can pull easier (both SDL and post-date). Caveat is that this has to be a place with girls you like (see TYPES)… If you like hoodrats, all this needs to be in the hood… if you like young students, this needs to be near college area… if you like party girls, near the bars/clubs… fancy shopping girls, near the malls/shopping districts, etc.
“Attention, Affection, and Sex.” When I was out with the Preacher’s Daughter, I spit out some line that “relationships between men and women are about ‘attention, affection, and sex.'” I know I went this direction, as she was “no to sex” (for religious reasons). I said that what men and women need from each other is about getting high-quality attention (and I gave her the eyes), affection (and I demonstrated on her liberally), and that you can’t really know someone intimately without seeing what they’re like sexually (“there is an ease that comes post-sex”). All this was good “birdsong” material. She ate it up. I like it as more of “stuff I say to girls.” Sundance likes it too. I’ll use that angle again.
“Girl Tornado.” I did not quite get a girl tornado spinning in my six nights in NYC. But four dates in six nights is not bad. And I had girls texting me I wasn’t even bothering to read. That’s what the beginning of a tornado looks like… just not enough time to whip up a full “feeding frenzy.”
“No Daygamers in NYC.” I didn’t see a single daygamer out on the street. Not one. I’m sure there are many… but I never saw another guy other than me and my wings. I was out weekdays, but still. Hmmm. 5th Ave. Didn’t see a single guy out approaching.
“A Week Is Not Enough Time.” Six nights is totally possible to “get lucky.” Particularly via SDL. But, it was hard to warm up to a really aggressive “tornado level” game when you’re still adjusting to a city, and you don’t have time to build much critical mass and work your leads. In Toyko when I was doing idates almost every day, and eventually my SDL pull, I was super warmed up. So SDLs are the strategy for short term, but most guys don’t have themselves/town figure out short term. Practically speaking, SDLs are better for mid-long term trips… just like dates. For me, I’d plan to start with a long stay (2+ weeks), aim for a mix of SDL and date-based game, and expect things to “whip up” after a few days of number farming and pinging each day’s leads. By the time I got that far in NYC, it was time to go. I’m planning on gaming Vancouver next year… and I’ll plan for two weeks, min.
Cool…. that’s it.