Mar 14 2022 03/14/2022 03/16/2022 13Comments by Nash

Shit Tests and Frame: A Case Study

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I recently met this lovely, young girl – we’ll call her Miss 19. Pickup was solid. Got her out: Nice daytime coffee date (I was excited about her). Got her out again, did the “coffee to makeout” plan and she got the first kiss of her young life (yes, really). And then we had another date (back to my place) where the little thing and I “made it to second base” – and she felt a hand down her pants (another first for her). And then… before what would be our fourth date, Miss 19 tossed a shit test into my seduction.

“When she [tests you] – she will play. It’s play as long as you’re playing. As soon as you take it seriously, it’s game over, you lose, and she can’t trust you. For most of us, that is most of the time.”
— Deida

Below we’ll look at her shit test and review some suggested ways to respond.

Then I’ll show you what I did. And as we talk though this case study, I’ll breakdown some opportunities deepen our understanding of Game.

HER SHIT TEST:

How it started:

ME: What are you doing today?
HER: I am going on a date

Why would a nice girl say something like that to a guy she likes?

“If she views you as a contender, she will test you. A woman often won’t even bother to test a low-value male; instead, she will just become non-responsive and then leave as soon as possible. A test can be considered an indicator of interest of sorts.”
— From “Mystery Method”

Miss 19 is young and inexperienced, but… yeah. Girls (even young ones) have a built-in, natural ability to present tests that allow proper men to step up, or give less-effective men a chance to hang themselves.

I knew she liked me. She had given me some really direct statements showing interest (“I am totally into you”). We’d had some good dates. Why test me like this? I assumed she was just fucking around.

But I didn’t like it. It was “bad Game” on her part. Her test was noise that was keeping me from asking her out – which was my goal that morning.

As it was an interesting test, I wanted to see what other guys would say.

SOME RESPONSES TO HER SHIT TEST:

“ME: What are you doing today?
HER: I am going on a date

…

QUESTION: What do you like as a comeback to that?”

I showed her test to some guys and asked them what they thought.

My initial reaction wasn’t playful or confident. I was irritated – which is not attractive, but a lot of guys might react like that.

“Def stay silent and ping her later.”
— GayKhalDrago

GayKhalDrago doesn’t like this kind of thing either.

“Silence is the magic trick.”
— Dark Horse

Right, let her sit.

Silence can be powerful. And it can be a bad idea to “reward her” with attention when she is causing trouble.

In my case, I don’t like being “intentionally passive.” It is part of my core philosophy of Game that masculine value is about “what he does:” It’s about action, not “waiting” or passivity, or being reactive to the girl. I had a plan and I wanted to move us forward. Are my plans as a man being influenced by the whims of some goofy teenage girl?

Is that my only choice?

“Honestly bro; my best answer would be to do the ‘thumbs up’ to her response and leave it there. Make her fumble the football now.”
— Antifragile

I get it. But then…

She “fumbles,” and I punish her by rolling off, and that stalls out the affair… it’s “all struggle, no snuggle” and nobody gets laid. I don’t really like that either.

And “going silent” (particularly suddenly) risks looking butthurt and crushed by the test.

“How to FAIL a shit test: Let her see you stumble, struggle to respond, go uncomfortably silent, get noticeably embarrassed or upset, or try to defend yourself.”
— Bobby Rio

“Struggle to respond, go uncomfortably silent.” Bobby’s right. Part of the purpose of shit tests is to see if you’ll flinch. Going silent could look like “I get hurt easily.”

Other guys had light-hearted responses that could work in a situation like this.

“In this situation… I respond with a variation of ‘lol ok’ or a đź‘Ť. Not saying anything makes it feel like she got under my skin. Dismissive fits my style better.”
—Jack North

I like that. The vibe is “at ease” and unbothered.

“Always have a couple alpha dismissive lines in your pocket:

“ME: What are you doing today?
HER: I am going on a date.
ME: gay”
— FortWorthPlayboy

A dismissive response can be a good solution to a test like this.

And I personally like “gay.” That counters some feminine BS with a Heartiste style, “bro-y” response.

“Two options:
1.) Ignore for a few days then hit her with a ping text.
2.) Try cocky-funny with something like, ‘Very nice, I hope you take your mom someplace nice ;).’
As an older guy I’d do #1, it has more gravitas.”
— Magnum

Both work. And that second response by Magnum is a good illustration of another way to see tests…

“I love shit tests.
I LOVE THEM.
And here’s why you should to:
They are an easy opportunity to display VALUE.”
— Bobby Rio

Bobby is right again. While shit tests can throw a seduction off track, they can also be an opportunity.

“Where a NICE GUY CHUMP sees barriers, the TAKE CHARGE MALE sees open doors.”
— Swingcat

I love this line from Le ‘Swing. Yes.

We could get pissed off… or we could see a shit test as: “She wants to be Gamed.” You take her “chaos” and you use it as an opportunity to show off. That is how a Take Charge Male might handle it.

Here is another great answer that shows some value:

“If you’re still unmarried by Tuesday, come out with me.”
— Runner

I like the feel of that. It’s “jokey,” but it calls her bluff, shows no insecurity, and plows through in a confident way. Bobby would approve.

“A very simple framework to remember that will help you pass almost any shit test is: Agree and amplify.”
— Bobby Rio

Right.

Here is similarly sharp response that passes the test with style:

“Oh cool, are you in love?”
— GTG Education & Consulting

This is my favorite. It’s so short, it feels effortless.

WALK AWAY:

There are dismissive or playful ways to handle a shit test. But some guys felt like the best move was to drop her.

“Shit test or not, that’s dishonest and manipulative. I walked away from the last chick who was dishonest and manipulative. I don’t want those kinds of women in my life. There are way too many options out there to tolerate that kind of disrespect.”
— John Wick

This is a really common expression in the Game community.

Should we walk away when we’re tested? Is it “disrespect?”

I say: If you’re flush with pussy, maybe blowing a girl off for this kind of behavior is valid.

But first, be real with yourself. Do you actually have “too many options?” Or is that impulse all “ego” or a lack of creativity?

I have been a player for a long time. I’ve known 100s of men who were trying to (and often actually were) getting better with women. Almost none of them had “too many options.” 95% of the time, the guy has little-to-no options (even players that have some skill).

This “cut her off” attitude is mostly self-defeating. Both short-term (you lose this specific girl), and long-term, in that you lose the chance to practice, to grow, and maybe pass the test and experience what it feels like to move on to glory.

A willingness to stay in the seduction is the focus of the rest of this post.

“CRITICIZE HER AND QUIT:”

“Not worth the effort.
Too much work.”
— God

For any given reason, guys will tell you to “walk away.”

I understand the impulse, but this “criticize her and quit” is dramatically over-recommended in our scene. Wise men know when to back out of “a bad investment”… but most guys learning Game aren’t actually “wise men” (yet). They love this “criticize her and quit” solution because it appeals to ego (and pride), it’s “safe” (less risk of rejection), and it requires no effort (it’s lazy).

I want to find that “warm, wet, sticky space” between being a high-ego, lazy quitter (a lot of guys) and a low-value, dancing monkey that doesn’t know when to quit (also a lot of guys). I have some love and understanding for men in these situations, but I have enough experience to challenge both ideas.

We can do better.

“One of the mindsets that all player’s share is something I call ‘being comfortable in the grey area.'”
— Bobby Rio

This is excellent. Red hot.

Guys should resist the urge to “criticize and quit.” They should instead “hold the tension” of the moment, and practice displaying some value when tested (by girls or by life in general).

That’s right.

MY RESPONSE: An Example of FRAME and RE-FRAMING

I could have ignored her. I could have come back with something dismissive or used humor to cruise through her test (which is a pretty good solution). I could have dropped her (which is a pretty lazy solution). We have good examples of all those ideas above.

As I didn’t like her test, my first instinct was to “smash” that behavior. I wanted to use the opportunity to teach her what I want, to receive her chaos, punish her a little (chaos sucks), and then add structure to coach her into better behavior. That would allow me to make the test into something constructive.

How could I do all that?

I did this:

HER: I’m going on a date
NASH: Is this how you like to FLIRT WITH ME?
NASH: You can do better than that.

I like it. And it’s a good example that demonstrates what we call “frame control.”

I took her comment about a date and I played it back to her in the frame of “her trying to flirt with me.” It’s not dismissive (not really). It could be humorous, but it’s not super funny. What it really does is work to control the “frame” in which she and I see her test.

Maybe she was thinking: “Watch this, this will make him squirm.” I step past that frame by changing the meaning to: “I see you like to flirt with me… but you’re not very good at it.”

“Frame” is not some juvenile, power-monkey technique where you “win battles” by telling her “no.” That attitude is missing the power of frames to be more constructive and seductive. Frames are about creating a specific meaning in the relationship.

“To understand frame control, we must first have an understanding of frames: A frame is the surrounding meaning of any interaction (your reality).”
— Jon Sinn

I looked up this stuff from Sinn and Bobby Rio after I made my response, but this is almost exactly the effect I wanted to create:

“Reframe the underlying meaning to her chasing you
EX: Are you a player?
PUA: You know you’re not gonna talk your way into my pants like that
PUA: If you want me, you’re gonna have to do some serious courting”
— Jon Sinn

By correcting her and reframing her intent as trying to flirt… I had now taken her bullshit move (that was killing our love bubble) and spun it into me leading her.

I liked it.

STRUCTURE:

I have been using the word “structure” a lot recently when I talk about the potential of Game. It’s a big concept for me right now.

“In the Third Stage, you’re helping manifest the unseen thing that has to happen, that should happen, that is the right thing to happen. You intuitively feel what should happen (like an artist), what the universe wants to do, and then you use structure to create it. That is the masculine way.”
— David Deida

“You need to have the structure of: ‘What is this moment for?’ Whoever is playing the masculine in an intimacy has to define that.”
— David Deida

Gorgeous stuff from Deida.

My initial impulse was to “crush” her for fucking around. Not only to “knock her down,” but when I think of “structure,” the impulse is to lead her toward what she needs to do to have a better experience with me. We have this opportunity with all of the “women and children” in our lives.

This is a big lesson: Proper men provide structure to help the girls and the relationships thrive. This is really what I wanted that morning as she tested me.

So I “reframed her,” and then… I dove into some “role playing” so I could provide some structure:

NASH: Is this how you like to FLIRT WITH ME?

That is me setting the frame that she is a bad flirt. It is a little bit of a “gotcha” – a pretty accurate read of what she was doing.

I went on to “teach her” how to flirt better:

“You can do better than that.

Like this…

You: I wonder if the STRONG MAN is thinking of me???
Me: GRRRRRRRRRR
You: Ohhh, he is a little dangerous…
Me: GRRRRRRRRRR
You: I want to kiss him and touch him!!!
Me: YES, YES, YES

This ^ is better… it will help you get what you want”

I am framing myself as the “strong and dangerous man.” And I am framing her as being very into me. It’s good frame (and it isn’t about “winning” or “power,” can you see it?).

I am trying to building something. And I am specifically teaching her how to think about me. And how to do it in constructive ways.

While this kind of Game isn’t for everyone, I think this is me showing some really solid understanding of how men can lead women and create what they want. Instead of indulging my ego, or protecting myself, I used the moment to set up some structure (once again) via this “Beauty and the Beast” material.

I am “framing” her as the feminine girl seeking the attention of this “big monster,” in a way that should make her feel good. Those are actually the “roles” I want for her and me. And I am coaching her into her part of our affair.

I am literally putting words in her mouth – and words that will help us to seduce each other. Words that would feel good if she felt them. Words that help craft a beautiful image of her and I in healthy masculine/feminine polarity.

I could have done the “criticized and quit” move. But instead, I passed her test, I showed some value, and I used the opportunity to introduce more structure into our relationship.

Yes, I am happy with that response.

I didn’t actually have to “crush her.” I can get her on track so we can be “the happy girl and the dangerous man” together. And then I can praise her – which is how I want to spend my time with her. In praise, and lust, and looking “up.”

That is what I want. I am leading myself (and her) toward what I want.

HOW DID SHE RESPOND?

This is a real case study from a real girl, and she had a response:

HER: Haha
HER: Just kidding

And just like that – shit test, obliterated.

Was she really serious? No. Was she really trying to “manipulate me?” No. She was just a young girl being a brat.

After her “just kidding,” we banged out a few more back-and-forth messages and set up a date.

I didn’t go silent (which would have killed any momentum and leadership I had). I didn’t drop her (which would have killed the whole thing). I led in a masculine way, and…

The following Sunday we met up, she came directly to my place, and…

That little 19 year old girl lost her virginity. Yes, that happened. It was a beautiful night.

CONCLUSION:

You get laid more by what you do, than by what you don’t do.

“Not worth the effort.
Too much work.”

Guys are giving up way too often, and too early… and missing a lot of really great experiences.

Try a little. Put in some effort and often you’ll land on the other side, happy, more sexually satisfied, and will learn a lot more in the process.

(It’s hard to learn anything when you give up before the Game gets past the opening moves.)

“You don’t have to collapse. That is practice: Not to collapse – specifically when she is ‘insulting you,’ her rejection, pushing away, closure, creating combat, etc.”
— Deida

A girl I call Miss Pierced was “one and done” with me after I fast-closed her in December. But I kept going, and she has turned into a regular (she’ll be with me tomorrow night). In Fall 2020, I had to “double text” with Miss Words. She came through, and I had the most meaningful relationship I have had in years (I love that girl). And this Miss 19… I have since fucked her a few times. She has become a wonderful lover. I like her a lot (for a variety of reasons). And it’s “on” with her because I didn’t quit.

Those seductions happened because I wasn’t too proud or too stubborn to show a little effort. I had to “penetrate” the situation… really stick my dick into things to get it done. Sometimes it feels good to stick your dick in there.

Lots to learn here. And it all started when a man walked up to some girl at the mall and said, “Hey…”

Viva daygame.