I have a theory that “The game is played in the text messages.” It’s true, but I don’t want to oversell it.
There are a lot of opportunities for artful practice in text, but I don’t think we really “convert” that many girls via our “brilliant text game.” Nevertheless, the text messages are the bridge that connects the initial “meet” phase to the dates, so that stage is a crucial step. And while most of her attraction was likely decided when you originally picked her up… almost all of the opportunity to keep the ball rolling (and occasionally give it more momentum) happens as you message the girl.
“Daygame Infinite focuses on the specific over the abstract, so there are many text chats with real girls, and I walk you through my calibration and decision-making.”
— From Krauser’s Daygame Infinite, pg 171
Krauser most recent textbook features a ton of text exchanges with girls, which is part of what makes it a joy to read. That kind of instruction is an obvious and relevant way to showcase game, as we spend so much of our time in the texting. And while it may not be where we make the most gains in terms of raw seductive power, it’s in the texting where we find out if she’s really into us or not. It’s where we find out… can we get her out?
The game is played in text messages.
In this post I’ll show threads from two girls. One where I “win” the exchange. And the other where I lose.
We rarely really know for certain why a girl did or didn’t do a certain thing. With that said, below I will show what “I” was trying to do – the emphasis is on what “I” thought was happening, and how my level of experience influences how I read the girl and the choices I made. I’ll show how I tried to game these girls, based on what I could see from her messages, and what I know about women in general.
Let’s jump in. We’ll start with the one where I lose:
Most of this thread was all in one text session, over an hour or so:
NASH: Hey Miss Shanghai
NASH: Very nice to meet you yesterday… You are an interesting girl.
NASH: And, a little bit charming. : ]
There’s a typical opening ping for me. Nickname based on something I know about her. Some validation (I like validating girls). And a slight tease/take-away with “little bit” in the last sentence. That “little bit” is also a test I float out to see if the girl is playful… very often she’ll banter with me over the “little bit” element. In this case, she did not.
HER: Oh… hi, thank you
Dry, simple response, but not terribly bad… and it came fast.
I date a lot of introverted girls from foreign countries. Often their English isn’t strong. I don’t expect much from text from these girls. I have had girls respond like this that really liked me… at this point, it was too early to tell.
NASH: You interested me when you say you don’t want to look “cute”
NASH: I am curious to hear more from you
NASH: I am going to San Diego/Mexico later this week, but I want to see again
NASH: I have some time tonight… Or maybe Tuesday?
That first line is me calling back to something she said when I picked her up… she rejected the label “cute” in set, and we had an interesting moment of conversation about that. It’s true, it did interest me. And I was curious about her.
But… I gave her two options. And while she seemed to accept… she didn’t pick either of the choices.
NASH: Tonight or Tuesday? Tell me when you’re free and I’ll make a plan for us.
HER: Tonight works better for me
NASH: Okay, great.
Ahhh, seems like she’s jumping on it. This seemed to me like a girl that was at least a little bit interested. I didn’t assume it would “go this well,” but I was happy to try to capitalize on it and keep it moving.
NASH: [link to a hotel]
NASH: Let’s meet here ^.
NASH: Nice place, quiet, we can have something to drink.
Okay… I think she read this wrong, and that’s my fault. I think she assumed I was trying to take her to a hotel… instead of the HOTEL BAR, which was my plan. It’s a misunderstanding, but it’s possible this was a big deal for her, and that it soured the mood.
I said in the intro that I don’t think we really “win the girl over” via text that often (very rarely, I bet). But we definitely lose girls in the text phase, all the time. A lot of game is about having a good start, and then just not fucking it up.
I have a theory of “womb management,” where girls have to constantly steer dicks away from their wombs… they disqualify us for any and every reason… which is smart… or they’d be on their backs their entire lives. It’s possible this misunderstanding derailed my seduction… but I don’t think so.
NASH: 5th floor… very nice lounge.
NASH: Have you been?
I didn’t try to explain my gaff. I could sense she was judging me here, and it was no time to back-peddle or offer wormy apologies. I clarified about the lounge. And I stacked further, asking if she’d been, assuming everything was normal.
She parried again:
HER: I don’t want to drink tonight
Does this seem charming or graceful? No. It doesn’t. -1 for her. She is showing defence and screening… she is not being warm or attractive at all.
I was starting to get the feeling she was a pain in the ass. Sometimes a girl is locked in “defense mode”: She met you on the street, and she’s not going to show you her soft side until you’ve made her comfortable or shown enough value. Chinese girls can also be a little bit “pragmatic.” But even so, it was increasingly hard to like her.
NASH: Okay… We don’t have to have alcohol.
NASH: They have some tasty non-alcoholic drinks.
This ^ is true. And I picked that lounge in particular, because it’s all ages and serves non-alcoholic drinks. This whole date is designed for nervous, non-drinkers like her. With that said, I wish I had teased her here.
HER: Can we do dinner?
Hmmm. I have satisfied her no-alcohol thing, but she’s tooling me again. “Moving the goalposts.” I like taking girls to dinner… but if it seems rare that a girl will ask for dinner… it is. Another red flag. I could feel this set quickly fading into bullshit. As she was fucking around, I was getting ready to change my approach… treat her less like a “partner” and more like an adversary.
NASH: Maybe? : ]
NASH: Are you picky about what you eat?
What she did was socially unusual, so I am kind of calling her out with that “ha.” And I throw in “maybe” – because I like it, and also to balance her forwardness with some ambiguity.
But that next line… “Are you picky about what you eat?”… that is maybe my favorite line in this post. I wish I had started the exchange with this attitude.
“Picky” is a bit pejorative and I was qualifying her a little bit. I was also constraining her, setting up a boundary. I was getting her to commit to something so I could have a little more control in the next round of conversation. I like that line a lot.
Okay, good. Now I have her in a box that she should accept my dinner suggestions, no matter what it is. At least on the surface…
NASH: If I could find us a table at a delicious place for 7:30… Could you do that, Miss UX Designer?
HER: Nothing fancy plz
I try to constrain her again when I pre-qualify the dinner spot. I had a tab on my computer open with the reservation, but I didn’t want to confirm it until she did.
But she did it again… trying to disqualify for “fanciness,” randomly throwing up criteria for me to react to. This is how girls treat “Bottom Guy.” The set was cooked at this point, but I was holding my ground at least. And since I had set her up when I asked if she was picky… now I get throw it back at her:
NASH: I thought you said you weren’t picky? : ]
If she had a sense of humor, or was a “fair” girl, she would have LOL’d and started to cooperate here. I had shown good handling of her bullshit and had successfully trapped her, and I had done it with some skill. I was flexible, but had boundaries, and was funny about it. All of this is a way to try to show value as you handle shit tests.
But… she’s not a cool girl. Not to me she isn’t.
I stack fwd, ignoring her comment.
NASH: Does 7:30 work?
NASH: [link to the restaurant]
NASH: Let’s meet here
NASH: It’s not too fancy, but I love the food
NASH: You can walk there easily from XYZ Station
NASH: Cool : ]
Okay, there she says “Yes.” One word answers. She’s still being dry and difficult. But I assumed I had her at the time. I thought I had passed enough tests, maybe I’d see a cooler side once I could get her face to face and run other aspects of my game. But…
HER: Ummm sorry I just realized I have a movie tonight
HER: Can we do another time?
HER: Promised my friend before
Nope. A proper flake. This ^ came an hour/so later. She sucks. This is just a girl tooling a guy. Over and over.
There are better ways to handle girls than what I am capable of. Of course. Some other guy could have done better… I agree. But this is her being a cunt about it. Not because she cancelled… but because of the whole thing.
NASH: Ahhh. Well, if you’re the kind of girl that tries to keep her promises to a friend…
NASH: I can respect that.
I try to reframe it… but it’s a rejection/cancellation. Not much I could do at this point.
NASH: If we were to try again… You’ll have to tell me when you’re free.
I left it here. No need to follow up with this girl. I doubt she would have replied. And if she did, high likelihood she’d tool me again. It’s not, actually, just a “little more effort” to try again with a girl like this. It’s about vibe. This girl is a vibe killer. She’s gone. Good riddance.
Okay, there is my loss for this post. It happens. And I am happy to show when I take an “L.” It happens to all of us and I’m real enough to show this side of my game.
But what I am also trying to show is a man that is in the process of learning to read women, even difficult ones. And I am increasingly solid in my skills at trying to hobble a girl like this when she is running Chaos Game back at me.
That “picky” line… it’s not much of a victory, but it still puts a smile on my face. I want to dance with women, not “fight.” But if they’re going to throw punches, I want to counterpunch in effective ways. Not to “win,” but to get the seduction back on track… so the fighting can transmute into rolling in the sheets.
But not this time.
“Read back through the chat with a focus on the key text game question: what does this tell me about where she’s at? That’s the question that guides your calibration and thus fine tunes your text game.”
— Krauser’s Daygame Infinite, pg 226
So Krauser is not talking about me. That line above is in reference to one of his own exchanges from his book, but I love this kind of talk. “What does this tell me about where she is at?” I won’t revisit that exchange above, but Krauser is pointing us toward greater skill when he encourages us to think like this.
Let’s get into the next one… a story with some wins in it.
This girl has a more interesting backstory. I picked her up last year. We messaged several times, but I couldn’t get her out.
Then, about two months ago while I was out with Magnum, he pointed her out, said she was my type… and even though I didn’t recognize her… yes, she was my type. I opened her, it was spicy and fun (great set), and as I tried to number close her… her number was already in my phone.
As I started messaging her, she was flirty and cool. She told me she had a BF. I tried to get her out anyway.
HER: I have a boyfriend already, is it a date?
NASH: A date????
NASH: With YOU??!!!!
NASH: Yeah. Definitely. : ]
NASH: I understand you’re seeing someone…
NASH: I want to see you anyway
HER: OK : )
She is clear and frank about the boyfriend, but this girl likes me. She is what Krauser would call “interested, but not available.”
There was more back and forth with this one. Stuff like this.
HER: We can be friend, if u want
NASH: I think maybe you are too cute for me to pretend to be friends
HER: Well, thanks :) but I am not interest in seeing someone else
NASH: Of course, of course…
NASH: I can tell you’re a good girl
NASH: I would stop now…
HER: : )
NASH: But when you and I were face to face…
NASH: A little bit interesting.
HER: You are definitely an interesting guy
We can see her caught in the dilemma here. She likes me, but is trying to show some loyalty to her BF. That makes her an interesting girl to watch.
I am not trying to argue with girls about how much they like me… unless I can see that they are conflicted. (This same kind of situation came up when I kissed the married girl earlier this year.) I don’t think she wanted to date anyone else… but this girls was into me. She was actively communicating with me and giving me “room to move,” despite me being a scoundrel. So I pushed it.
HER: I would like to have fun with you, but not date, haha :)
NASH: I would like to have fun with you too…
NASH: But you are VERY CUTE
NASH: For now I think it’s better if I keep you away from me…
NASH: I will definitely want to touch you
HER: If u think it’s the best way, then it does :)
Here I do a little more of my “Octopus Style” of push (“it’s better if I keep you away from me”) combined with a strong pull (“I will definitely want to touch you”) to make it crystal-clear I have sexual intent. And she continues to flirt.
NASH: I think I’m going to message you in two weeks…
NASH: And tell you you’re CUTE…
NASH: And that I’m still thinking of you
NASH: You want to have tea with me today?? : ]
I really was going to back off, that was my intention… but I could feel her encouraging me, helping me “to see openings” (Swingcat).
And I had said something like this with Miss Thick a year ago, before I got her into bed. She too was pushing back on me, but I didn’t panic. I told her I’d reach out to her in a week, and she seemed to warm to me in how I handled it. I ended up fucking Miss Thick, and she became my favorite lover of all time (for a while, I miss that girl).
I could feel her tugging on the line, so I tried to get her out despite the pushback… and I got her.
HER: Tea is okay
Hmmm. After all that. I have clarified that I will touch her, that I’m not a friend. Clear sexual intent declared. And she is still coming out. Very interesting.
I handled the logistics and then said:
NASH: I promise I won’t try to kiss you unless you beg me.
That’s ^ another good line. There is a lot going on in a line like that.
As it was, we had tea, and I got her into my place. And at one point, I stepped up to her, like I was going to kiss her… and I said, “Are you ready to beg me to kiss you yet?”
Saying that felt fucking fantastic. It was a good way to keep my promise, and escalate on her at the same time. It felt dominant. It was a somewhat difficult situation, and not bad work given the circumstances.
And as I said that, she held her little tiny fist up toward me, and shook it, in a playfully threatening manner. That was awesome too. She is a cool girl. I laughed at her, pushed her away. It was a good “dance.”
(BTW: She told me that the reason she didn’t date me last fall was because she had just met her BF at that time. And she also said that when I picked her up the second time, she knew exactly who I was, and just pretended not to know me. I love that about her too. She is awesome.)
We wrapped up that date.
And BELOW I continue the seduction, trying to get her out on the second date:
I had pinged her, we were chatting about seeing each other, and then:
NASH: The museum is open late that day…
NASH: Come hang around with me.
NASH: Or Friday… Let’s have tea!
HER: Friday works
HER: What time
She and I have a bit of history at this point. I know she is interested. And she is being compliant above.
NASH: How about 4:30?
HER: Where are we meeting?
NASH: Let’s meet at that same coffee place.
I wanted to get her back to my place again, and this coffee spot is very close to where I live. Notice this time… I am making no promises about not kissing her.
Ahh, what is this? Suddenly, she is being a little difficult… or so it seemed to me at the time. I assumed she knew this was close to my place, and that I would make a move if I could. But for now, I needed to get past this friction:
NASH: Because I said so. : ]
NASH: Because they have good tea.
I doubled down. I am showing strength, but also trying to show that I can be playful and that this is about a good time… not me “winning” the fight.
HER: That takes me a long to get there
More friction. She is being lazy… and not complying.
NASH: okay, okay : ]
NASH: Tell me again where you live?
Here ^ I’m doing something like what I did in the with the first girl. I am pre-qualifying her. I am trying to get her to cooperate with helping me with the plan.
HER: XYZ and ABC St
There ^ is a little bit of compliance…
NASH: How about if I get us both tea and then pick you up… We’ll take a drive.
HER: To where?
That ^ is a fair question, but again, I take this as bullshit from her. And I was starting to feel tested.
As I type this, I assume this is actually all about her boyfriend. That is my conclusion. She doesn’t care where we meet, not really. And the trip to my neighborhood (which really isn’t a big deal, even by bus) wasn’t the issue. This was her dilemma again… she doesn’t want to cheat… and she is on her way to exactly that if she sees me again… so she’s kicking up dust trying to slow me down. More womb management.
NASH: You ask a lot of questions. : ]
There is a little smack. Also very similar to the exchange above, where I call her out in a slightly indirect way. I want her to get in line, so I’m calling out her difficulty here.
NASH: Right now… I would choose down the coast, toward XYZ City
NASH: Or across the bridge to the North
NASH: No place in particular… just ride and sip tea and talk.
NASH: Sounds good to me.
So, here ^…. I just relaxed and told the truth. If I couldn’t get her into my place… a drive down the coast sounded like a great afternoon. When in doubt, take her on the date YOU want to have. And this trip was something I actually wanted to do.
HER: That sounds good
HER: I would like to go to XYZ City
And she gave in. Done. And I think she was not only being compliant with my planning, but also indulging the part of her that likes me, that does want to spend time with me. It was a type of surrender.
Were the incidents of pushback above shittests… or just honest questions? I don’t know? It’s hard to know… all you can control is yourself.
If I had given up, I wouldn’t have seen her. If I had over-reacted, she would have had all the evidence she needed to “guard her womb” and disqualify me. But I didn’t freak out, I weaved through her tests, I held my ground, I showed some strength. Not bad.
And I took her on that drive.
We talked about men and women. And about sex. And the chemistry between us grew, and I got turned on. And at some point I pulled over, I said, “c’mere”… and I really made out with that girl.
And it was a fucking great makeout. Really good. She is a decent kisser, but more than that, I think she and I have excellent chemistry.
We made out a few more times, I took her back to her place, I kissed her one last time… and I went home.
“Text interactions are measured in days not minutes.”
“You must be creative in expressing yourself from a distance and be sharp in reading between the lines of her replies to understand where she’s at mentally.”
— Krauser Daygame Infinite
I agree. I agree. I agree.
THE GOOD NEWS: I am 43 and dating two pretty, feminine girls, 25 and 26. I met them doing #daygame.
THE BAD NEWS: It took me over five years, thousands of approaches, thousands of hours, and thousands of mistakes to get where I am now. And I’m still barely an intermediate PUA.
— Rivelino (@alpharivelino) August 25, 2018
I like that second part of Rivelino’s tweet from this week. I wouldn’t call it “bad news,” but it’s the truth.
Mastery is no joke. It’s not “a few interactions.” It’s hundreds of interactions. These two girls are part of how I fill-out my experience. How I “get in the ring” over and over and test myself, my real-time skills of routing and rerouting the energy a girl throws at me toward something constructive. This is how I sharpen my leadership skills… and work at being a better seducer.
It’s a wonderful game. I hope to play for many, many years to come. And it starts, each time, by talking to a girl on the street.