For the second time today, I’m inspired by the Chateau Heartiste. Both times related to “pickup techniques.” And the theme for me today is VALUE.
So much of the pickup talk in our community is retarded… "tough guy" techniques pushed by guys that don't have the value to pull them off.
Check out this HEARTISTE post that uses all those retarded concepts in a very cool way.https://t.co/bAeA2M9OYn
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) March 21, 2018
Posted ^ earlier today.
That is about a Heartiste’s post where Chuck shows us how to game a girl by “telling her how you will seduce her.” It’s a great post. And it looks like excellent game to me. It’s an example of exploiting “the fourth wall,” but in a clever way that could actually work.
And what I like about it is the ironic relationship that Chuck’s game has to the samples of game techniques that it draws from. Here is an example to show what I mean:
CHUCK: “I can see your interest level is peaking. Here comes the best part. Right when I notice your interest level is high, I disqualify myself as a potential lover.”
In the post, Chuck says this ^ to the girl.
And that’s is hysterical “fourth wall” game, as I see it. Yes, it IS funny to point out to the girl the techniques you’re using to seduce her. But for me, it’s extra awesome to take a bunch of flat-footed pickup techniques, and run them all together, narrating your own game as you go. It’s funny for me… as it’s the “greatest hits” of newbie dreams of how to run pickup. And it’s funny to the girl… because she knows that stuff isn’t actually working on her, and his arrogant confidence in those techniques comes off as PARODY. It’s “I know that you know that I know I’m being a social retard” game… done so well, it’s social genius (aka, it’s “charming”).
All this is super funny for me… as many of the guys that advocate these techniques are actual social retards. When Chuck clowns all that, in a perfect way, I love it.
Per the example… here Chuck is specifically telling the girl he’s using disqualification to “make her chase.” She is not actually chasing at this point in the example. But she is probably terribly amused. It’s excellent.
But this is a vaguely subtle scenario here… as a lot of guys would take each of those “pickup truism” as gospel. They might get that this is supposed to be funny. But they might also falsely believe that those techniques are relevant to their own game… and for most guys… these techniques are not relevant at all.
And this gets me to the point I want to make in this post:
The pickup community, LOVES techniques where we are “elusive” and “mysterious” and we “neg” and we “give zero fucks” and “we say less than her” and of course all this… “makes her chase.”
There is some truth to all of that… but under one very important condition:
You have to have what we call VALUE… a LOT OF VALUE… or these techniques are empty bullshit.
For most guys… hungry guys… looking to get laid… who probably have few options and little experience or success… “make her chase” is completely irrelevant advice. It’s total and complete bullshit for most guys.
These techniques are what I call “cool guy game.” And they are cool… when high-value, cool guys use them. For everyone else (which is most times they are attempted)… they are demonstrations of poor social skills… or worse.
Let’s look at some specific examples of community voices pushing this kind of advice:
In any social interaction, the one who exerts less effort has higher social status. Learn the art of being concise but impactful.
— pickupartist101 (@sexmanipulation) March 21, 2018
This ^ is from my Twitter feed today.
So, is that true? Is it true that in ANY SOCIAL INTERACTION, the one who exerts less effort has higher status? We know pickup guys LOVE to say this kind of thing… but is it true?
No. No, that’s fucking retarded. This is dipshit PUA advice of the worst kind. And the community is full of it. I feel bad for new guys… trying to wade through this garbage.
Every single leader, that is actively leading, is exerting more effort than his followers, and has higher status, at the same time.
Every time the quarterback from the football team walks up to the cheerleader, teases her, calls her a “brat,” snaps her bra and walks off with his buddies while she blushes and is passive and speechless… he was exerting effort, he was leading, she wasn’t chasing… and he had ALL the status.
We are not all “quarterbacks” but this ^ is much more practical advice for guys that want success with women than “cool guy game.” This ^ we can do. The “exert less effort” has some truth to it, but for most men, that is terrible advice.
And yet I see the “make her chase” platitude every single day. So boring. So “keyboard jockey.” So “one size fits all”… when that is NOT how game works. Game is NOT a one size fits all phenomenon. Game is about calibration. About who she is. About who we are. And how to connect the dots in each of those unique combinations.
Until you have real value… “cool guy game” doesn’t not apply to you. Not sure if I’m talking about you? If girls aren’t paying a lot of attention to you (which doesn’t necessarily mean they are chasing)… you don’t have the kind of value that would make “cool guy game” applicable to you.
I am taking a hard look at myself right now… and I don’t really have the kind of value that I need to make those techniques work. And I am a VERY successful guy in a dozen disciplines. Even in game… I’m a “proven” thing. I can find/meet/attract/close YHT… even in a foreign land. But even so… most “cool guy game” isn’t made for me. And that doesn’t mean I can’t get laid from game… it just means that these techniques mostly aren’t for me… I will run different game… if I want it to work.
Back to this example… what happens when you’re low or relatively-low value, and you “exert less effort?” What happens? Nothing fucking happens. You get ignored. And you should ignored. You’re a low value dude, doing nothing… that is not attractive and it never will be.
Most of us… myself included… A LOT OF THE TIME… and with almost every single girl that I cold approach (that didn’t give me an IOI)… we start at “low value,” or “unknown value,” and we build up from there. That is real for most guys. That is the reality of game for most guys. It’s not weird… but it’s a long way away from a place where “cool guy” routines will work.
I think “cool guy game” is most often the “go to move” for to two very different groups of men:
First, 1.) actual cool guys. They, by definition, have value. Could be they are good looking, or famous, or naturals, or their game is practiced and solid, etc. They can “exert less effort” and look like “the buyer” and all that. And let’s be real… this is NOT most of us. This is NOT me… in most situations. Sometimes this is me… but most of the time, no.
And the second group of guys that this “cool guy game” appeals to are 2.) Low value guys, that are looking for “tricks.” These guys are mostly fools. I’ve been that kind of “fool” before… back when I thought some significant percentage of pickup was about “the line” or some “hack” that would “work” to help me “get the girl.” I laugh at that shit now.
Over and over and over… game comes down to VALUE. Game is a way to “showcase value.” Sometimes your game itself IS value… and that is sort of what is happening with Chuck in the Heartiste piece above.
Game is active. It’s about going “towards.” It’s about creating something. It’s about taking risks… which means being real, in some way or another. Game is not about “hacks.” That whole line of thinking is “gamma bait.”
Here are some quotes from Krauser about gamma qualities that is close to the heart of this post:
“The gamma’s strategy, fundamentally, is to climb, not though having value… but to have a ‘secret system.'”
“The gamma knows that he is not tough enough or courageous enough or athletic enough to be like, say, an alpha fighter… So he’s got to sort his ego out to be tough in another way… so he figures out a ‘secret system.'”
“You can probably see why pickup attracts a disproportionate amount of gammas… it’s a way to get the hot girl without really deserving them. And that is like catnip to gammas.”
Notice that reference to VALUE in the first line above…
I’ll get back on track… but I think Krauser is nailing WHY this kind of technique is so overplayed, and has so much appeal, to so many community guys… they fundamentally don’t get the VALUE piece. They avoid that part of the work.
They get feedback that they are low value, consistently, so they avoid the value game… and look for a “hack.” I think this is very common for new guys (I did it… in part because I didn’t know better at the time). But for some guys… for “Super Gammas”… this will always be the preferred path. And avoidance of building value… avoiding the real internal work of game… and a search for a “technique” or a “hack” that will work with women that will otherwise reject them.
And of course… there is no such thing. There are no hacks to game.
Here is another example of this “cool guy game” thinking in the community:
“You need to show her you have all of that, and more… by being 100% chill, nonchalant, and non-reactive in the way you talk to her. No matter what she says, or does… you have to genuinely not give a fuck.”
— 66 Texts
See guys? Just “don’t give a fuck” and she’ll chase you. It’s that simple.
Except it isn’t. This “don’t give a fuck” is another retarded meme from the community.
I’d argue 90% of the guys that say that… totally give a fuck. They really, really give a fuck. I know I give a fuck… I do. And saying “I give zero fucks” is a way of pretending. It’s completely transparent, and no one is convinced at all. It’s more lame “cool guy game” from guys that aren’t actually cool. And the community pushes this CONSTANTLY.
If you actually ARE high value, actually in demand, actually distracted by some kind of real abundance in your life… then your “not giving a fuck” will be a BYPRODUCT of your actual badass lifestyle. “Trying” to be a guy that just doesn’t give a fuck looks like “trying.” No one believes that stuff. It looks like a guy that is “laboring” to look at ease. It’s fake, uncalibrated nonsense.
The thing about pickup advice is this… most guys aren’t that cool. Especially not in the beginning. A lot of the time… even “cool guys” aren’t that cool. Even very cool guys, when they are “taking a risk” will show “uncool” sides of themselves. That is normal. And when you’re in an “uncool state,” all this “cool guy game” will not work for you. You will look like an ass.
Chuck’s “routine” in that Heartiste post is brilliant, in part because of that aspect of parody. A “straight” version of that could work… but it would be less over the top. And it wouldn’t have a jokey vibe. And there would be fewer “techniques” in it. And it would work when a very confident man delivered it in a solid, professorial way. And she would get quiet, not giggly… and she would get turned on. The whole thing would be slow, and quiet, and seductive… if those techniques were being shown in a “straight” way… which they are not.
Chuck’s version works… because most of those pickup platitudes are bullshit when implemented by “low value” guys… so they become a joke in this context… and she laughs. And then Chuck SHOWS VALUE, because he is breaking the rules, and she knows it, and he and she are sharing the joke, and his arrogance is humor (humor is a type of VALUE)… and she loves him for it.
Chucks shtick is bogus “cool guy” techniques transformed into humor. This ^ path will work for some guys that aren’t quite “James Bond,” but are close enough to parody “cool guy game” in an effective way. Their real confidence in this situation comes because they KNOW it’s a parody, not because they believe the tropes in those lines.
For non-cool guys… and for guys that can’t quite pull off the parody… don’t try this. It’s a setup to look like a clueless amateur. And don’t try any of these “cool guy game” techniques. They will fail. You will inspire disgust… not arousal or attraction. Nobody likes a fake.
So this brings me to the last example for the day… fresh off of Heartiste’s site. This is a brand new post called “Preemptive Rejection Game:”
HER: Can I pet your dog?
PLAYER: You’re not my type
HER: Would you like your receipt?
PLAYER: Stop hitting on me
HER: Press the button for 5th floor?
PLAYER: I’m dating someone
HER: Good Morning
PLAYER: Too bad, I’m gay .. Try that guy
He is rejecting her as the opener. Is this ^ good game?
Take the 2nd example: “Stop hitting on me,” as said to the girl at the super market. What kind of “vibe” would it take to pull that off? What kind of man would you have to be to make that effective?
If you are a badass guy, that is getting IOIs all day long, that is dripping with sexual threat… and you roll up to the checkout girl… and there is tension because of your presence… everyone in line can “feel” you… and she offers you the receipt and you accuse her of hitting you… it works. She gets it… even if she is not flirting with you. She gets it… because you are a guy that stinks of sex and is generally badass… so of course the comment makes sense to her. It’s arrogant, but it’s rational. That guy really IS that badass. So accusing her of hitting on him… is funny, but it’s also realistic… yes, she might want to flirt with a guy like that… most girls would.
The guy that can pull that off… is high value.
This mandatory quality that the guy be genuinely HIGH VALUE… is what is missing from all this game advice.
Now imagine some slightly nervous, average guy, with mediocre fashion, that is a bit unsure of himself when he drops that line… it will be flat. It’ll be worse than flat. It’ll be uncalibrated and weird. It won’t be “1/2 a point of value,” it’ll be -10 value. “Too bad, I’m gay,” from that guy, will come off as… creepy confusion for everyone involved. And more than likely, she’ll think you actually are gay, and that you are inappropriate about talking about it, and it won’t matter (other than you’ll be a social pariah), because it won’t be in the realm of flirting at all.
In the community, we do a terrible job talking about “types.” Types… as in “not everyone is the same.” Not the girls… and not the guys. We are all different types. And that means that we need game that applies to our specific place in the SMP.
We could start talking about “types” by saying there are “cool guys” and “intermediate players” and “game-aware newbies” and the totally clueless. Those are some “types.” And most of the techniques we’re highlighting in this post will ONLY work (in a predictable way) for the cool guys. And these techniques will work for the intermediate guys when they are “in top form” or with a girl that already likes them. And they will never work for newbies. Period. They will never work for gammas. Not at all.
Back to my point about BYPRODUCTS… I know from my own experience that when the girl already likes me (for whatever reason), I naturally do “cool guy game” without trying. It’s a byproduct of the chemistry with a girl when I really am high value, and she knows it, and I know she knows it. I’m not forcing it. It’s not a “hack.” The value is real… so the “cool guy game” byproducts are real too.
This ^ is how “cool guy game” actually works.
One last example to take us home…
TRUE OR FALSE: Telling a girl “no” is good game?
I can’t think of the source, but I saw this one in my Twitter feed in the last week as well. Some guy preaching how guys need to say “no” to girls more. So is that good game? Well… it depends.
I know, from my personal experience that I can tell a girl “no”… when she is already chasing me. There it is again… “chase game.”
It really can’t be done intentionally. Or rather… it will always be watered down when you try to “force it,” because it’s not coming from real value. Girls chase value. Girls will never chase sub-value guys using “techniques” that they are not ready to own.
This Korean girl I know… is a mess… and she chases me… and I tell her “no” all the time. And I can do that… because she is chasing me. She knows me very well, and can actually see all my real value (I used to be her boss, she has seen me “kill people” in business, she has seen my work drive real results in terms of big dollars, she has seen other girls chase me, she has seen my house, my art, all of it… this is real VALUE). Notice the order there… she knows I have real-life value. She chases me. Then… then… only then I get to say “no” to her in an effective way.
But how many guys point to the value that is required to make this work? Not enough guys.
For most guys that don’t come off as “cool guy” from the start… in that kind of situation… our job is to hustle. Or job is to “exert effort.” Or job is to SHOW VALUE. It’s an active process. Then, and only then… can we start in with “disqualifying” ourselves and other “cool guy game.”
Yes… we could get the value proposition right quickly. It happens to me, sometimes, instantly, right as I approach. And then I can jump right into “cool guy game.” But again… be honest with yourself… are you that guy? Most of the time, I am not… not instantly. Very often I become “cool guy” after a date or two.
My recommendation for all the guys out there that aren’t quite “cool guy” (yet) is… work on your goddamn value. That… is where the opportunity is for most of us. It’s one part “work on your value” and one part “go talk to girls.” We do both at the same time. We don’t need negs. We don’t really need more “funny lines.” Disqualifying ourselves to the girls will go exactly nowhere most of the time… until we have VALUE.
Keep talking to girls (don’t wait to start that… face to face skill with girls, is its own kind of value)… but beyond that… you need to work on developing value… and then REALLY FEELING IT, on the inside. This is INNER GAME. Yes, we back to that.
“Cool guy game” most works… when your inner game is so tight, that SHE CAN SEE IT… she FEELS how credible your value is… because you know it… you reek of value… you FEEL it… so then… and only then… does “chase me” game work.
Value… is a million things. Today… I talked to 17 girls on the street. It wasn’t hard for me. I am genuinely confident and comfortable talking to girls. I EARNED IT… by talking to over 4000 girls in my daygame sessions alone. I did the work… and that VALUE is mine. So when I approach a girl… not always… but often… it’s not my lines that she is responding to… it’s my dead calm at talking to her… which is rare…and she knows it… but it’s real… so she sees VALUE.
I strongly encourage guys to avoid these bullshit techniques… at least unless your “special meter” is maxed out. At least try to get WHY they work (when the work). When you’re super on… or she’s already into you… that’s the time to use this kind of “cool guy” shit. Yes girls… strong Maybe girls… when you’re feeling hot… those kinds of situations.
For the rest of the time… be real with yourself and the girl. Drop the cool guy gamma hacks. Be funny. Be bold. Step up and be earnest about something… earnest about your attraction to her… earnest about “giving a fuck,” because you probably DO, in fact, give a fuck… or you wouldn’t have stepped to the girl in the first place.
These “cool guy game” techniques are absolute shit advice… for 90% of guys. And yet, these techniques are “90% of the advice” in the community. Irrelevant platitudes preached out of context.
I love this community, but I would also like to help clean it up… brush some of the intellectual garbage off our streets.