“Cool Guy Game” vs Real Value | There are No “Hacks” in Game
For the second time today, I’m inspired by the Chateau Heartiste. Both times related to “pickup techniques.” And the theme for me today is VALUE.
So much of the pickup talk in our community is retarded… "tough guy" techniques pushed by guys that don't have the value to pull them off.
But…
Check out this HEARTISTE post that uses all those retarded concepts in a very cool way.https://t.co/bAeA2M9OYn
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) March 21, 2018
Posted ^ earlier today.
That is about a Heartiste’s post where Chuck shows us how to game a girl by “telling her how you will seduce her.” It’s a great post. And it looks like excellent game to me. It’s an example of exploiting “the fourth wall,” but in a clever way that could actually work.
And what I like about it is the ironic relationship that Chuck’s game has to the samples of game techniques that it draws from. Here is an example to show what I mean:
CHUCK: “I can see your interest level is peaking. Here comes the best part. Right when I notice your interest level is high, I disqualify myself as a potential lover.”
In the post, Chuck says this ^ to the girl.
And that’s is hysterical “fourth wall” game, as I see it. Yes, it IS funny to point out to the girl the techniques you’re using to seduce her. But for me, it’s extra awesome to take a bunch of flat-footed pickup techniques, and run them all together, narrating your own game as you go. It’s funny for me… as it’s the “greatest hits” of newbie dreams of how to run pickup. And it’s funny to the girl… because she knows that stuff isn’t actually working on her, and his arrogant confidence in those techniques comes off as PARODY. It’s “I know that you know that I know I’m being a social retard” game… done so well, it’s social genius (aka, it’s “charming”).
All this is super funny for me… as many of the guys that advocate these techniques are actual social retards. When Chuck clowns all that, in a perfect way, I love it.
Per the example… here Chuck is specifically telling the girl he’s using disqualification to “make her chase.” She is not actually chasing at this point in the example. But she is probably terribly amused. It’s excellent.
But this is a vaguely subtle scenario here… as a lot of guys would take each of those “pickup truism” as gospel. They might get that this is supposed to be funny. But they might also falsely believe that those techniques are relevant to their own game… and for most guys… these techniques are not relevant at all.
And this gets me to the point I want to make in this post:
The pickup community, LOVES techniques where we are “elusive” and “mysterious” and we “neg” and we “give zero fucks” and “we say less than her” and of course all this… “makes her chase.”
There is some truth to all of that… but under one very important condition:
You have to have what we call VALUE… a LOT OF VALUE… or these techniques are empty bullshit.
For most guys… hungry guys… looking to get laid… who probably have few options and little experience or success… “make her chase” is completely irrelevant advice. It’s total and complete bullshit for most guys.
These techniques are what I call “cool guy game.” And they are cool… when high-value, cool guys use them. For everyone else (which is most times they are attempted)… they are demonstrations of poor social skills… or worse.
Let’s look at some specific examples of community voices pushing this kind of advice:
In any social interaction, the one who exerts less effort has higher social status. Learn the art of being concise but impactful.
— pickupartist101 (@sexmanipulation) March 21, 2018
This ^ is from my Twitter feed today.
So, is that true? Is it true that in ANY SOCIAL INTERACTION, the one who exerts less effort has higher status? We know pickup guys LOVE to say this kind of thing… but is it true?
No. No, that’s fucking retarded. This is dipshit PUA advice of the worst kind. And the community is full of it. I feel bad for new guys… trying to wade through this garbage.
Every single leader, that is actively leading, is exerting more effort than his followers, and has higher status, at the same time.
Every time the quarterback from the football team walks up to the cheerleader, teases her, calls her a “brat,” snaps her bra and walks off with his buddies while she blushes and is passive and speechless… he was exerting effort, he was leading, she wasn’t chasing… and he had ALL the status.
We are not all “quarterbacks” but this ^ is much more practical advice for guys that want success with women than “cool guy game.” This ^ we can do. The “exert less effort” has some truth to it, but for most men, that is terrible advice.
And yet I see the “make her chase” platitude every single day. So boring. So “keyboard jockey.” So “one size fits all”… when that is NOT how game works. Game is NOT a one size fits all phenomenon. Game is about calibration. About who she is. About who we are. And how to connect the dots in each of those unique combinations.
Until you have real value… “cool guy game” doesn’t not apply to you. Not sure if I’m talking about you? If girls aren’t paying a lot of attention to you (which doesn’t necessarily mean they are chasing)… you don’t have the kind of value that would make “cool guy game” applicable to you.
I am taking a hard look at myself right now… and I don’t really have the kind of value that I need to make those techniques work. And I am a VERY successful guy in a dozen disciplines. Even in game… I’m a “proven” thing. I can find/meet/attract/close YHT… even in a foreign land. But even so… most “cool guy game” isn’t made for me. And that doesn’t mean I can’t get laid from game… it just means that these techniques mostly aren’t for me… I will run different game… if I want it to work.
Back to this example… what happens when you’re low or relatively-low value, and you “exert less effort?” What happens? Nothing fucking happens. You get ignored. And you should ignored. You’re a low value dude, doing nothing… that is not attractive and it never will be.
Most of us… myself included… A LOT OF THE TIME… and with almost every single girl that I cold approach (that didn’t give me an IOI)… we start at “low value,” or “unknown value,” and we build up from there. That is real for most guys. That is the reality of game for most guys. It’s not weird… but it’s a long way away from a place where “cool guy” routines will work.
I think “cool guy game” is most often the “go to move” for to two very different groups of men:
First, 1.) actual cool guys. They, by definition, have value. Could be they are good looking, or famous, or naturals, or their game is practiced and solid, etc. They can “exert less effort” and look like “the buyer” and all that. And let’s be real… this is NOT most of us. This is NOT me… in most situations. Sometimes this is me… but most of the time, no.
And the second group of guys that this “cool guy game” appeals to are 2.) Low value guys, that are looking for “tricks.” These guys are mostly fools. I’ve been that kind of “fool” before… back when I thought some significant percentage of pickup was about “the line” or some “hack” that would “work” to help me “get the girl.” I laugh at that shit now.
Over and over and over… game comes down to VALUE. Game is a way to “showcase value.” Sometimes your game itself IS value… and that is sort of what is happening with Chuck in the Heartiste piece above.
Game is active. It’s about going “towards.” It’s about creating something. It’s about taking risks… which means being real, in some way or another. Game is not about “hacks.” That whole line of thinking is “gamma bait.”
Here are some quotes from Krauser about gamma qualities that is close to the heart of this post:
“The gamma’s strategy, fundamentally, is to climb, not though having value… but to have a ‘secret system.'”
“The gamma knows that he is not tough enough or courageous enough or athletic enough to be like, say, an alpha fighter… So he’s got to sort his ego out to be tough in another way… so he figures out a ‘secret system.'”
“You can probably see why pickup attracts a disproportionate amount of gammas… it’s a way to get the hot girl without really deserving them. And that is like catnip to gammas.”
— Krauser
Notice that reference to VALUE in the first line above…
I’ll get back on track… but I think Krauser is nailing WHY this kind of technique is so overplayed, and has so much appeal, to so many community guys… they fundamentally don’t get the VALUE piece. They avoid that part of the work.
They get feedback that they are low value, consistently, so they avoid the value game… and look for a “hack.” I think this is very common for new guys (I did it… in part because I didn’t know better at the time). But for some guys… for “Super Gammas”… this will always be the preferred path. And avoidance of building value… avoiding the real internal work of game… and a search for a “technique” or a “hack” that will work with women that will otherwise reject them.
And of course… there is no such thing. There are no hacks to game.
Here is another example of this “cool guy game” thinking in the community:
“You need to show her you have all of that, and more… by being 100% chill, nonchalant, and non-reactive in the way you talk to her. No matter what she says, or does… you have to genuinely not give a fuck.”
— 66 Texts
See guys? Just “don’t give a fuck” and she’ll chase you. It’s that simple.
Except it isn’t. This “don’t give a fuck” is another retarded meme from the community.
I’d argue 90% of the guys that say that… totally give a fuck. They really, really give a fuck. I know I give a fuck… I do. And saying “I give zero fucks” is a way of pretending. It’s completely transparent, and no one is convinced at all. It’s more lame “cool guy game” from guys that aren’t actually cool. And the community pushes this CONSTANTLY.
If you actually ARE high value, actually in demand, actually distracted by some kind of real abundance in your life… then your “not giving a fuck” will be a BYPRODUCT of your actual badass lifestyle. “Trying” to be a guy that just doesn’t give a fuck looks like “trying.” No one believes that stuff. It looks like a guy that is “laboring” to look at ease. It’s fake, uncalibrated nonsense.
The thing about pickup advice is this… most guys aren’t that cool. Especially not in the beginning. A lot of the time… even “cool guys” aren’t that cool. Even very cool guys, when they are “taking a risk” will show “uncool” sides of themselves. That is normal. And when you’re in an “uncool state,” all this “cool guy game” will not work for you. You will look like an ass.
Chuck’s “routine” in that Heartiste post is brilliant, in part because of that aspect of parody. A “straight” version of that could work… but it would be less over the top. And it wouldn’t have a jokey vibe. And there would be fewer “techniques” in it. And it would work when a very confident man delivered it in a solid, professorial way. And she would get quiet, not giggly… and she would get turned on. The whole thing would be slow, and quiet, and seductive… if those techniques were being shown in a “straight” way… which they are not.
Chuck’s version works… because most of those pickup platitudes are bullshit when implemented by “low value” guys… so they become a joke in this context… and she laughs. And then Chuck SHOWS VALUE, because he is breaking the rules, and she knows it, and he and she are sharing the joke, and his arrogance is humor (humor is a type of VALUE)… and she loves him for it.
Chucks shtick is bogus “cool guy” techniques transformed into humor. This ^ path will work for some guys that aren’t quite “James Bond,” but are close enough to parody “cool guy game” in an effective way. Their real confidence in this situation comes because they KNOW it’s a parody, not because they believe the tropes in those lines.
For non-cool guys… and for guys that can’t quite pull off the parody… don’t try this. It’s a setup to look like a clueless amateur. And don’t try any of these “cool guy game” techniques. They will fail. You will inspire disgust… not arousal or attraction. Nobody likes a fake.
So this brings me to the last example for the day… fresh off of Heartiste’s site. This is a brand new post called “Preemptive Rejection Game:”
HER: Can I pet your dog?
PLAYER: You’re not my type
HER: Would you like your receipt?
PLAYER: Stop hitting on me
HER: Press the button for 5th floor?
PLAYER: I’m dating someone
HER: Good Morning
PLAYER: Too bad, I’m gay .. Try that guy
He is rejecting her as the opener. Is this ^ good game?
I think it’s hysterically good game… for a very small group of high value guys that can pull it off.
Take the 2nd example: “Stop hitting on me,” as said to the girl at the super market. What kind of “vibe” would it take to pull that off? What kind of man would you have to be to make that effective?
If you are a badass guy, that is getting IOIs all day long, that is dripping with sexual threat… and you roll up to the checkout girl… and there is tension because of your presence… everyone in line can “feel” you… and she offers you the receipt and you accuse her of hitting you… it works. She gets it… even if she is not flirting with you. She gets it… because you are a guy that stinks of sex and is generally badass… so of course the comment makes sense to her. It’s arrogant, but it’s rational. That guy really IS that badass. So accusing her of hitting on him… is funny, but it’s also realistic… yes, she might want to flirt with a guy like that… most girls would.
The guy that can pull that off… is high value.
This mandatory quality that the guy be genuinely HIGH VALUE… is what is missing from all this game advice.
Now imagine some slightly nervous, average guy, with mediocre fashion, that is a bit unsure of himself when he drops that line… it will be flat. It’ll be worse than flat. It’ll be uncalibrated and weird. It won’t be “1/2 a point of value,” it’ll be -10 value. “Too bad, I’m gay,” from that guy, will come off as… creepy confusion for everyone involved. And more than likely, she’ll think you actually are gay, and that you are inappropriate about talking about it, and it won’t matter (other than you’ll be a social pariah), because it won’t be in the realm of flirting at all.
In the community, we do a terrible job talking about “types.” Types… as in “not everyone is the same.” Not the girls… and not the guys. We are all different types. And that means that we need game that applies to our specific place in the SMP.
We could start talking about “types” by saying there are “cool guys” and “intermediate players” and “game-aware newbies” and the totally clueless. Those are some “types.” And most of the techniques we’re highlighting in this post will ONLY work (in a predictable way) for the cool guys. And these techniques will work for the intermediate guys when they are “in top form” or with a girl that already likes them. And they will never work for newbies. Period. They will never work for gammas. Not at all.
Back to my point about BYPRODUCTS… I know from my own experience that when the girl already likes me (for whatever reason), I naturally do “cool guy game” without trying. It’s a byproduct of the chemistry with a girl when I really am high value, and she knows it, and I know she knows it. I’m not forcing it. It’s not a “hack.” The value is real… so the “cool guy game” byproducts are real too.
This ^ is how “cool guy game” actually works.
One last example to take us home…
TRUE OR FALSE: Telling a girl “no” is good game?
I can’t think of the source, but I saw this one in my Twitter feed in the last week as well. Some guy preaching how guys need to say “no” to girls more. So is that good game? Well… it depends.
I know, from my personal experience that I can tell a girl “no”… when she is already chasing me. There it is again… “chase game.”
It really can’t be done intentionally. Or rather… it will always be watered down when you try to “force it,” because it’s not coming from real value. Girls chase value. Girls will never chase sub-value guys using “techniques” that they are not ready to own.
This Korean girl I know… is a mess… and she chases me… and I tell her “no” all the time. And I can do that… because she is chasing me. She knows me very well, and can actually see all my real value (I used to be her boss, she has seen me “kill people” in business, she has seen my work drive real results in terms of big dollars, she has seen other girls chase me, she has seen my house, my art, all of it… this is real VALUE). Notice the order there… she knows I have real-life value. She chases me. Then… then… only then I get to say “no” to her in an effective way.
But how many guys point to the value that is required to make this work? Not enough guys.
For most guys that don’t come off as “cool guy” from the start… in that kind of situation… our job is to hustle. Or job is to “exert effort.” Or job is to SHOW VALUE. It’s an active process. Then, and only then… can we start in with “disqualifying” ourselves and other “cool guy game.”
Yes… we could get the value proposition right quickly. It happens to me, sometimes, instantly, right as I approach. And then I can jump right into “cool guy game.” But again… be honest with yourself… are you that guy? Most of the time, I am not… not instantly. Very often I become “cool guy” after a date or two.
My recommendation for all the guys out there that aren’t quite “cool guy” (yet) is… work on your goddamn value. That… is where the opportunity is for most of us. It’s one part “work on your value” and one part “go talk to girls.” We do both at the same time. We don’t need negs. We don’t really need more “funny lines.” Disqualifying ourselves to the girls will go exactly nowhere most of the time… until we have VALUE.
Keep talking to girls (don’t wait to start that… face to face skill with girls, is its own kind of value)… but beyond that… you need to work on developing value… and then REALLY FEELING IT, on the inside. This is INNER GAME. Yes, we back to that.
“Cool guy game” most works… when your inner game is so tight, that SHE CAN SEE IT… she FEELS how credible your value is… because you know it… you reek of value… you FEEL it… so then… and only then… does “chase me” game work.
Value… is a million things. Today… I talked to 17 girls on the street. It wasn’t hard for me. I am genuinely confident and comfortable talking to girls. I EARNED IT… by talking to over 4000 girls in my daygame sessions alone. I did the work… and that VALUE is mine. So when I approach a girl… not always… but often… it’s not my lines that she is responding to… it’s my dead calm at talking to her… which is rare…and she knows it… but it’s real… so she sees VALUE.
I strongly encourage guys to avoid these bullshit techniques… at least unless your “special meter” is maxed out. At least try to get WHY they work (when the work). When you’re super on… or she’s already into you… that’s the time to use this kind of “cool guy” shit. Yes girls… strong Maybe girls… when you’re feeling hot… those kinds of situations.
For the rest of the time… be real with yourself and the girl. Drop the cool guy gamma hacks. Be funny. Be bold. Step up and be earnest about something… earnest about your attraction to her… earnest about “giving a fuck,” because you probably DO, in fact, give a fuck… or you wouldn’t have stepped to the girl in the first place.
These “cool guy game” techniques are absolute shit advice… for 90% of guys. And yet, these techniques are “90% of the advice” in the community. Irrelevant platitudes preached out of context.
I love this community, but I would also like to help clean it up… brush some of the intellectual garbage off our streets.
Viva daygame.
This post is all bottom guy, man.
“For most guys that don’t come off as “cool guy” from the start… in that kind of situation… our job is to hustle.”
No – your job is to learn to come off as a cool guy.
This will be less work than all the hussle you have to put to get any result. Less work and will produce much better results. And at the end any kind of results you get with the hussle, you are getting them DESPISE the hussle, not because of it.
Some day this will click. You’re getting some reference experiences to make you switch to the light side.
That princess came to you when you stopped chasing, miss libs came to you when she knew you’re not chasing her, etc. Something should click soon.
Work and hussle is bottom guy and you’re setting that frame for yourself. It’s the game you’re choosing to play. For reasons unspecified.
“chase” is the default female behavior when she sees something she likes. It’s not something you ‘make’ her do. It’s who they are.
Any day now.
:-)
Hey Man….
>> No – your job is to learn to come off as a cool guy.
I knew you were going to say that. : ] I almost wrote in your lines.
But this kind of stuff from you is also “shit advice” for most guys. It’s why you made me worse before you made me better.
>> Less work and will produce much better results.
Less work “works” when you have the REFERENCE EXPERIENCES to back it up. And you get the reference experiences through work… period.
You are making the mistake of not talking about TYPES here, man. You are a type. You can do things my type cannot. And YOU would even say that the type you are now… is not the type you were when you were learning. I know that is true.
>> Some day this will click. You’re getting some reference experiences to make you switch to the light side.
Yeah. I am a lot of the way there. This post isn’t really for me.
But even in Japan, man… (and I have several more stories to drop about that trip)… it was WORK that got me there. Not “tussle.” You are 1000% right about tussle. But WORK… dude… that is essential.
Don’t push guys away from the work.
And certainly don’t push them away from VALUE… which is quite obviously the point of this post.
>> That princess came to you when you stopped chasing, miss libs came to you when she knew you’re not chasing her, etc. Something should click soon.
I am not advocating “chasing girls.” That is not what I am saying.
I am saying “make her chase you” is a retarded way to teach guys to level up in game. It’s not going to happen, not at first, not for 90% of guys… so it’s a distracting way to teach.
Her “chasing” is a BYPRODUCT of your value. That is the point of this post.
We look at her “chasing” after the game is over. We see that most clearly in retrospect. We don’t set out to make her chase… especially when… it is a fact… most guys will not get girls to chase in cold approach… not off the opening move.
I love your version of game… and I am beginning to get it (it’s much more IOI based)… but most of us will work our way up to that level… we won’t start there… doesn’t mean we won’t get laid along the way.
>> “chase” is the default female behavior when she sees something she likes. It’s not something you ‘make’ her do. It’s who they are.
This ^ is the other side of my point. “SOMETHING SHE LIKES” is value in the player. Here, we are saying the same thing… but I am pointing to us… you are pointing at her psychology… same interaction.
VALUE. VALUE. VALUE.
>> Any day now.
>>
>> :-)
I’m getting there. : ]
THANKS, Yohami.
“This post is all bottom guy, man.
“For most guys that don’t come off as “cool guy” from the start… in that kind of situation… our job is to hustle.”
No – your job is to learn to come off as a cool guy.
This will be less work than all the hussle you have to put to get any result. Less work and will produce much better results. And at the end any kind of results you get with the hussle, you are getting them DESPISE the hussle, not because of it.
Some day this will click. You’re getting some reference experiences to make you switch to the light side.
That princess came to you when you stopped chasing, miss libs came to you when she knew you’re not chasing her, etc. Something should click soon.
Work and hussle is bottom guy and you’re setting that frame for yourself. It’s the game you’re choosing to play. For reasons unspecified.
“chase” is the default female behavior when she sees something she likes. It’s not something you ‘make’ her do. It’s who they are.
Any day now.
:-)”
yohami, we talked about this on the phone, remember? this is one of your blind spots. it’s IMPOSSIBLE to come off as the “cool guy” from the start. from what start? from birth? what are you talking about? every man needs to create his value. remember we talked about your example, you in BA with your penthouse apartment, your parties, your guitar and music…. that’s called HUSTLE and it’s called PUTTING IN WORK. nash put in similar work, hitting the street and doing 4,000 approaches. i have put in similar work too. every man needs to hustle — not just act the cool guy sitting on a stack of smoke and mirrors.
“that’s called HUSTLE and it’s called PUTTING IN WORK. ”
Putting the work to become a “cool dude” or a “top guy” it’s a very, VERY different kind of work than…
Putting the work to chase women while remaining as the same person.
Or, talking to 4000 women while not being a cool / top guy doesn’t necessarily make you attractive. It doesn’t necessarily make you a cool guy / top guy. You CAN make it happen while talking to women, if you’re focused on your transformation, but it wont happen if you’re focused on the chase only, and focused on the wrong frame, the wrong frame being
“women are higher value than me and I have to trick them into liking me”
Game as a trick vs transformation as a man.
Different work.
“Nash put in similar work, hitting the street and doing 4,000 approaches.”
Put the same amount of hours into becoming a cool guy / top guy. And compare.
Hey Nash, I agree with Yohami’s line of thinking. What I think, to use the already established terminology here, is if you’re top guy you’re always top guy. You’re top guy even while you’re sitting on the shitter. I don’t think it’s helpful to believe you start at low value with a girl and build. Your value is there always, however high or low, and the job through street game is to successfully deliver it, present it, make her aware of it. The ‘work’ is drilling the process of presenting your value, and then skillfully seducing the girl who’s you notice is at least somewhat interested in buying what you’re selling. It’s an important part of the whole package to improve, if that’s your method of choice to funnel new girls into your life. The art of the deal. It it can also indirectly build value by increasing your confidence through the sheer volume of experiences. But directly it’s delivering value not building, and that’s why most players reach the conclusion that intense work on ‘inner game’ is where real leaps and bounds are made. Building a better product to sell. The old-skool techniques are just claims to value that isn’t there. Guys who get good at just techniques can definitely still have success but they’re no more valuable, it’s a separate thing. All glossy red paint and no V8 engine. You’ll want both the engine, and a kick-ass custom paint job.
Nice writing, as usual.
Most of those techniques were codified by Mystery who was playing a cool guy / mini celebrity game. Remember he was in the bar or club doing magic tricks surrounded by people. That’s where the ‘neg’, ‘ignore your target’, ‘make her work for it’ ideas come from. Lets leave aside for the moment Mystery’s self-worth and how he may have been covering up for a lack of it through this type of game.
If you’re an average or below average guy just starting out you’re not necessarily going to be in that place.
I agree with you that there’s a difference between what good game looks like and the things you need to do to get there.
But in my opinion that many people can benefit from a canned line or gambit because it’s a way for people to fake it until they make it. I’m not talking about relying on canned material for everything you say and do but little bits here and there to help you from one stage to the next.
For example I have a particular way of asking a question about a person’s interests that helps shift things in a deeper direction. It’s just the best way of doing it that I’ve found. I think anyone should use it, even if beginners won’t get as much compliance as I do.
Back in the day people would rely on David DeAngelo’s (cringy) cocky funny lines. As silly as they were it helped new guys get in the right headspace (which was more important than the reaction). Yes often they’d fall flat but when they gave your brain a good reference experience (if it worked all the better). The problem was that people would become addicted to positive reactions and use that material to start pushing buttons in the girl rather than concentrating on the feeling that it created in yourself.
I’m in two minds about the value model. Of course as you become more centred and confident in who you are you (through experiences, achievements and self development) you’ll radiate more value.
But personally I saw my biggest leaps in results when I stepped away from the ‘value’ paradigm to an arousal > value, assume attraction and set the right frames paradigm inspired mostly by 60 Years of Challenge and Captain Jack.
I would summarise it as.
1. When interacting behave the way someone who has attraction would behave
2. Focus on escalating things logistically and physically
3. Communicate in ways that pre-suppose the frame that you want (whether that’s making friends, looking for a GF, a ONS or an FB).
I don’t know if this is the ultimate most efficient game for me but this way of doing things helped me get better results more easier and the change happened quickly.
BTW, I’ve finally sorted out my life situation so I’m going to be out socialising more. Check out my blog for the last couple of interactions I’ve had.
Introvert… I always appreciate your “old school” view on this stuff. I know those times too.
>> But in my opinion that many people can benefit from a canned line or gambit
I am okay with canned lines. I don’t use generic lines much, but I “reuse” my own lines, constantly. I’m okay with guys working with other guys stuff…
“I saw you walking, and I thought you look nice…”
^ Classic Daygame.com opener. I don’t like it, but it’s a perfectly fine place to start.
The DIFFERENCE for me is… WHAT KIND OF LINE?
I’m cool with canned lines (not ideal, but I get it)… but COOL GUY GAME where you presume she gives a shit about you… when she does not… is the kind of thing I am pointing to.
Your take on Mystery’s influence is perfect, as I see it. And his reputation for being insecure… and overcompensating.
>> I saw my biggest leaps in results when I stepped away from the ‘value’ paradigm to an arousal > value
I believe you.
I was careful not to say what “VALUE” is… because again, we have to talk TYPES FIRST (the girl, the player), and then in their shared world… THEN… what is “value” to them.
So if you can arouse girls… you have value. Winner. Done.
But guys that think “cool guy game” is arousing… well, that depends on who’s using that technique.
Some MGTOW guy with a neckbeard saying “Girls are yucky” will be taken at face value. Whereas CHAD says that and everyone knows it’s a tease…
…it’s not the line. It’s the guy. And his underlying VALUE.
The actual source of my value may be a mystery… but my INNER GAME will shine when I believe in my own value… she will see that shiny inner game… and presume value.
We do this with dudes too… some guy walks into a room… we know he is high value… and it’s not because of his fancy watch or his leather shoes (I reject that kind of “status” shit). It’s how he holds his chin up… that’s an HONEST SIGNAL. That’s his INNER GAME helping me see his internal value.
………..
HACKS don’t work… unless they sit on top of HONEST SIGNALS. And value and inner game is where we showcase our “honest fitness.”
Maybe just work on being consistent. Being the same person all the time regardless of the outside feedback. The ship on a straight line course that can’t be blown around.
Being cool because of a situation is probably not totally authentic – which probably shines through in a subtle (subconsciously) yet unmissable way.
The ‘cool guy’ is probably being authentic in and of himself. Mimicking what a ‘cool guy’ does probably doesn’t work because of the place its coming from. I guess most people have their social, work, game face they put on. If you step to a girl and have some ‘face/act’ you put on it is no doubt picked up on subconsciously. ‘Just be yourself’ – so simple and almost trite – yet possibly quite hard to do (doubly so if your current self isn’t so attractive for a lot of people).
A have seen a few ball breaking asshole bosses be supplicating pussies to their wives and girlfriends. These guys are usually heading for divorce, have cheating wives or girlfriends etc. Being too extreme in one thing usually indicates too much of the other in different areas – none of which are any good.
>> Being the same person all the time regardless of the outside feedback. The ship on a straight line course that can’t be blown around.
This ^ is solid.
When guys talk like this^ … I already trust them more than ” hey, I got this hack… check it out.”
Yeah… I am with you.
>> The ‘cool guy’ is probably being authentic in and of himself.
This is about authenticity. What I call “real.” Yes. That is a part of what I am saying.
In this case… there are many kinds of “inauthentic.” And “assuming she’ll chase”… or actually, FAKING THAT YOU ASSUME SHE’LL CHASE… is a particularly lame choice, IMAO. One that is suggested too often… and often is suggested by guys that aren’t making it work, not even for themselves… but they say stuff like this, as they are trying to game US with the same lame “cool guy” fake persona they try with girls… and I reject this POV from game guys… looks try hard to me.
If we are going to “use training wheels,” we should pick a frame that works of us. And guys walking around trying on “heavy push” game, fake high value game… when they have no obvious value to the girl… when they don’t even see the role that genuine value plays… have made a particularly bad choice of what “persona” to try on.
And I think they make that particular choice… they choose COOL GUY GAME in particular, so often… because it protects their ego.
I think that retards their growth… wrong ladder… leaning against the wrong wall.
They invest in COOL GUY GAME… instead of being honest about who they are, what their relative value is, who she is, what she is attracted to… and working on being an attractive man in the first place.
Hi. Which products do you reccomend for who is starting? daygame blueprint, daygame by todd, streehustle from torero, stealth seduction?
Plz , I need some help
Hey man. Welcome.
Check this out: http://www.daysofgame.com/theory/notes-beginner-daygamers-hanging-root/
I wrote that a year ago… but that is still pretty good advice.
I have so many feelings about this post. These thoughts have all been on my mind recently. I agree with you, but I also agree with Yohami’s first comment.
First of all, I hate the phrase “Improve yourself as a man, and the women will come to you.” This is a Red Pill adage, frequently posted on their subreddit. It was never true for me. I was always in great shape, very social, tons of friends, successful at work, etc. Women almost never chased me, at least not really the women I wanted to be fucking. This is why I had a grand total of 4 notches at age 27. But then, suddenly, I get into Game and I start *actively* gaming. Two years later, those 4 turn into 50+. The women never “come to you” unless you are the king of your social ecosystem, are very physically attractive, or both. You have to exert effort — at least a little — to kickstart the process.
Now, as someone who typically runs “value game” but is still in the learning stage regarding technical game, here are my comments:
>> I am taking a hard look at myself right now… and I don’t really have the kind of value that I need to make those techniques work. … most “cool guy game” isn’t made for me.
Why not? Do you not want to do it, or do you not see yourself ever being capable of doing it? The way I see it, Game is all about mimicing alpha behaviors. I would never settle for anything less than what the most successful guy does, thus I seek out the most successful guys and emulate their game.
Yohami is correct: “No – your job is to learn to come off as a cool guy.” I see it like acting. Fake it until you make it, and then it will eventually become your attitude.
>> Now imagine some slightly nervous, average guy, with mediocre fashion, that is a bit unsure of himself when he drops that line… it will be flat.
Wouldn’t the guy get blown out whatever he said, though? So in that case, isn’t it a good idea to practice these lines for a year or so while every evening he hits the weights, improves his fashion, works on his entrepreneurial idea, builds friendships, and other things that improve his value?
>> If you actually ARE high value, actually in demand, actually distracted by some kind of real abundance in your life… then your “not giving a fuck” will be a BYPRODUCT of your actual badass lifestyle.
Agreed. For example, lifting for 10 years has given me great posture and body language. And having lots going on in my life has naturally made me a “good texter” since I always waited a long time to text girls (and everyone, really) back.
But I still don’t see a problem with guys practicing “cool guy game” until they actually become a cool guy.
P.S. Nitpicky, but in that Cheateau Heartiste post, it’s the author saying the lines, not Chuck.
>> First of all, I hate the phrase “Improve yourself as a man, and the women will come to you.” This is a Red Pill adage, frequently posted on their subreddit. It was never true for me.
I agree with you. I’m not saying ^ this at all.
I am a MAN OF GAME. I approach, that is responsible for 99% of my action with women. But WHEN I APPROACH… what style of pickup do I run? Not “cool guy game” … that is mostly bullshit, for most men, most of the time.
VALUE is a thing. My value is for ME, in large part… I am better FOR ME (not for girls)… and my value shows through me (to the girls) via my INNER GAME.
My point is low value men cannot compensate with more “tough guy” pickup techniques. No technique will make up for having low value… but “cool guy game” is particularly bad, as it presumes value… often where there is little to none.
>> I was always in great shape, very social, tons of friends, successful at work, etc. Women almost never chased me, at least not really the women I wanted to be fucking.
Agree with you 100%.
For the most part… women DO NOT CHASE MEN.
Here ^ Yohami will come through to tell me women are always chasing men. And he is correct… for a very small percentage of HIGH VALUE MEN… and only AFTER those women are aware of that value… via game or whatever else.
The “women chasing men” is mostly naive garbage from ego-sensitive guys that can’t handle rejection… so they preach “cool guy game” and “women will chase you” when in fact… women don’t chase those guys. Most of the time that is… true.
>> The women never “come to you” unless you are the king of your social ecosystem, are very physically attractive, or both. You have to exert effort — at least a little — to kickstart the process.
I am with you 100%. I am pro-effort. Men do work. That is real. When I say “VOLUME,” and I say that a lot… I’m talking about effort. Man’s work.
>> Why not? Do you not want to do it, or do you not see yourself ever being capable of doing it?
I already run “cool guy game,” when she and I have that dynamic. It happens… mostly on accident. it’s a BYPRODUCT of some combos of me and girls.
Aiming for that… or using “cool guy game” as the path… that is THE misunderstanding I am pointing at.
>> Fake it until you make it, and then it will eventually become your attitude.
A lot of ^ this is normal and necessary… but in this context I’ll say no.
YES… you can “fake it” in terms of approaching girls, trying to be “normal” when in reality, you’re nervous. That is good “faking it.” You fake that it’s “normal” to talk to girls for you, even when it’s not (yet).
NO… if you roll up, and are a bit nervous, and want to fake James Bond COOL GUY GAME, you have introduced a new problem… one of your own making… that is a the FALSE PERSONA. You’re still nervous. But now you are also “falsely cool.” Now you have a new problem of congruency to deal with… and for what upside??
There is a difference between trying to be a calm/sexy version of yourself… and trying to be an dark-triad James Bond persona… as a way to getting some action with women. The former… is recommended.
This is a tiny bit subtle… but COOL GUY GAME (dark triad, all that) is a particularly bad choice for most guys… as they aren’t cool, dominant, aloof guys… so they will not only add “negativity” to the pickup, but they will be extra incongruent with that particular image.
>> I would never settle for anything less than what the most successful guy does, thus I seek out the most successful guys and emulate their game.
I have no doubt my responses from women are getting better and better.
Let’s not confuse SUCCESSFUL GUY with “cool guy.” Not the same thing. That IS the misunderstand, again… that “cool guy” game is what success looks like. There are million kinds of success… and those techniques are a shallow stereotype of what actual cool guys look like.
YES… I work on my value. My personal value. This is how I can look in the mirror… and see someone I respect. Someone who is “on his game” in life.
And THEN… I approach girls, as ME… not some fake “cool guy” persona that expect girls to chase.
SHE… likely stops for me at all, NOT because of some line, but because she “trusts my eyes” and is picking up HONEST SIGNALS from my inner game.
And THEN… in set, I get to talk about those aspects of my life that actually ARE high value (work, projects, accomplishments, travel, art, sport, whatever).
MEANWHILE… my hand-on game with girls (logistics, escalation) is better and more solid… which is also value.
Finally… I continue to get better and better as I have more experience and get more/better responses from women.
At no point did I try to be “DARK TRIAD ASSHOLE.” It was never a required step. It would have been distraction from a real path to success for me… and for most guys.
I have no self esteem issues here. I’m just clear that “cool guy game” is a BYPRODUCT of having high value… it’s not a goal… it’s not even a smart path.
>> Wouldn’t the guy get blown out whatever he said, though? So in that case, isn’t it a good idea to practice these lines for a year or so
Actually… no, I don’t think so. This is right at the center of my post.
I think he is MORE LIKELY to get blown out for choosing a “cool guy” persona that is miles off of where he is. That is completely inauthentic. He has then increased inauthenticity, and that has never helped anyone’s game.
Yes… we “fake it until we make it,” but we also have to “get in where we fit in.”
As influential voices send guys down the “cool guy path,” they are adding problems to that guys learning curve.
The “not so cool guy” — which is almost every guy in game — SHOULD practice game, but he has other choices besides the tough guy nonsense.
What “persona” (or TYPE) is he? What kind of guy does he want to be? What kind of girls would attracted to who he is now?
From ^ there… he can find an approach that suits him… and I doubt very much the answer is “more cool guy game” for most guys. It is not… because… most men are not that “cool.”
Nash, I admire your strong frame with what you says. An I invite you to consider other views too because in your writing you come across as intense and sure, which is a by-product of great game ;)
I know you are familiar with Krauser’s Womanizer Bible video product.
In there, he talks about the difference between the maxist view of value, that the value is in the things itself, and between how the (more accurate IMO) Austrian economics view things, that the value is in the mind of the consumer.
What does this mean?
It means the value you have as a man is not self evident to the woman (unless it’s an obvious one, like good DNA).
So yes to building value for yourself. But unless you learn how to communicate it properly, a guy will lesser real value but better “marketing” skills will take the girls.
We don’t just need to do “high value guy push game” because we want to fake being a high value guy. We do it because that’s what women like and enjoy.
Yohami is right, although I haven’t gotten it yet to work, but the type of men that women value highly and wish to be with are men that women pursue and chase. And the men who chase those women, the women view them as inferior, do not give them the perks of the high value guy (even if the guy is objectively high value, he becomes subjectively low value in their eyes).
Plus, remember how many decades of the wrong programming and habits we all have. That stuff doesn’t go away on its own or just because we’ve built value. You have to clean yourself out of the wrong programming and train yourself for the correct way of being.
So a guy who has no real value would get a “taste” or the reactions of girls by having the “fake game” which will motivate him to build real value (I still do believe that women would respond to such guys but if they have really low value, the women won’t push it through to sex. But still, the guy had a taste of the “forbidden fruit” and the positive spiral starts).
Finally, I remind you of Tyler’s comment in Hotseat @ Home. He said: “If you don’t follow the girl’s blueprint for how she wants to be picked up, then good luck to you.” Meaning, if you don’t interact with women with the way they want to be interacted with, in the way they expect a high value guy to interact with them, they’ll view you as a loser even if you are a cool guy on paper.
Many rich powerful men become little bitches around women and women despise them, treat them like their little bitches, and go fuck the pool boy when such men are away. On paper, those men are Top 1% in real value, but they communicate low needy value and so they end up treated like low value needy losers.
Hey Blue.
>> We don’t just need to do “high value guy push game” because we want to fake being a high value guy. We do it because that’s what women like and enjoy.
Dude… women like this no matter what the guy is like??? Do you see how your sentence doesn’t have enough nuance to be true?
BETTER QUESTION: What is more likely to work… a high value guy running simple, direct, game, telling her he likes her and wants to take her out… or a low-medium value guy running “cool guy game” trying to get her out and “make her chase?” Which guy to you bet on?? Which is more ridiculous???
We don’t have to agree… but I know which guy I’d rather be… for 1000 reasons… 999 have nothing to do with the girl (=inner game), but in the end… the first guy gets more girls, and better girls, who stick around longer, and… it’s because he is genuinely higher value.
Case closed.
There are no hacks. Hacks ARE LOW VALUE. And high value people can spot low value “cheats” and reject them.
High value people don’t chase low value cheats. Period.
The more high value the girl is… the more this is true.
Yes… women enjoy “jerk boy” game. Women like “the rub” as Krauser would say. Cocky/funny. I get it, I do all of this…
But NO… it’s not the fucking technique. They ONLY like this from guys that have value. That kind of game is PART OF their value… but it’s not a substitute for value.
>> the type of men that women value highly and wish to be with are men that women pursue and chase
I recommend you use this for AFTER THE FACT analysis, not as a STRATEGY for getting girls. Does that make sense? Many of the TRUISMS of game are great post-game analysis… but are “retarded” strategies for real time game.
For me… I run whatever my game is (very little “cool guy” stuff), and I get girls, and I see IN RETROSPECT that girls that chase me see me as high value. Those same girls also THINK OTHER GIRLS CHASE ME (whether they have seen that or not).
This is all looking backwards… I don’t try do “manufacture” that stuff in real time. That would “sneaky” gamma shit… which is what it looks like when you see people intentionally trying to produce the “result” without being the “thing” that produces the results… creeper game.
>> the type of men that women value highly and wish to be with are men that women pursue and chase. And the men who chase those women, the women view them as inferior
I’ll fuck with this (and Yohamis frame here) in that I physically run after girls on the street… right? When we say we are “out chasing girls today,” we are doing daygame… I physically chase.
Do those girls see me as “inferior?” Some of them, sure.
But that is a LOW FIDELITY view of what is going on.
BETTER QUESTION: Am I inferior? Increasingly… I am not. In terms of being a “warrior” in the SMP… I am increasingly deadly.
Now all I have to do… is show how “deadly” I am (via game) and then she knows I am NOT, in fact, inferior.
I am not talking about “abstract” hidden value (which counts, but isn’t my focus here). Like maybe I’m the #1 World of Warcraft Champ (which is a type of value). Or even that I have $100 MM in the bank. That is all “value,” but it’s not relevant to the pickup… because it’s abstract and she can’t see it. It counts… especially beyond the pickup… but that’s not what I am trying to say her.
I have a lot of “hidden” and “abstract value,” but I have VALUE I CAN SHOW, right there, on the street. And that value is how she knows I’m not “inferior” even as I show effort.
EXAMPLE: When I read her emotions, in real time, in the first min of the pickup… that is fucking super high value. It is NOT “chase me” game. It’s real time social skills… which is a type of value. Or even when I start talking art with the art school girls I pick up. When I give them a sticker (which I have with me), and can then talk about art in a credible way… dripping value.
And THEN… ^after I show actual real value, then I can text a little less and maybe they text a little more.
You see the ORDER?
I am “the THING THAT CREATES RESULTS,” and I use game to SHOWCASE THAT VALUE… and then I get results… and maybe some of the cool guy shit works, because I am actually cool… above/beyond those tactics.
The tactics are empty in themselves. They are dreams from little boys. They ONLY work when they sit on top of value.
Ok Nash, and I hope you do not take this personally, but aren’t you getting girls you like but that you personally describe as 7s?
I only say this because there is an important concept in game which is called Leveling (I’ll link to a video below explaining more).
So, if you are getting 7s, and girls do not really go after guys they see “out of their leagues”, it means your game right now is telegraphing to those 7s that you are an 8 or 8.5.
Which means a girl who is a 9+ will see you below her, inferior to her because of the same behaviors that will make the 7 feel comfortable fucking you.
Another indication is that girls ghost after sleeping with you. Because if they met a “Top Guy” 9 or 10, they’d make sure to stick around.
Couldn’t this, potentially, mean it is good to be open minded to another perspective? That maybe yes you have and display value, but it is the value that says “I am an 8/8.5” which is VERY attractive to 6s and 7s but very unattractive to 8s, 9s, and 10s.
Well, now, you know better. If you are able to get girls who are Japanese 9s and 10s, then yes, what you are doing is wonderful and is working perfectly. But if those 9s and 10s skip you, and the 6s and 7s stick, there might be a bling spot somewhere that indicates you’re an 8/8.5
Value is subjective. If is the value YOU BELIEVE YOU HAVE that matters, because it gives you the unshakable character which is grounded, masculine and attractive. You can feel weak and scared with a billion in the bank that you are afraid of losing, or you can be a hippie gypsy traveler who loves his life and himself and will convey to girls you are a 10 while the billionaire will appear to girls to be a 6. It is all in your inner game and what are your own personal criteria of value that you need to allow yourself to behave like a Top Guy.
Here is the video, btw:
https://youtu.be/8Z6HVIrgL5A?t=2m45s
>> Which means a girl who is a 9+ will see you below her, inferior to her because of the same behaviors that will make the 7 feel comfortable fucking you.
Oh nooooo… I can’t fuck “9s.” I should give up on game.
(Meanwhile… show me the “middling value” guys using “cool guy game” to “get 9s”…. I’ll wait here… still waiting… still waiting. 9s want value even more than 7s…. so you’re back to value, man… 9s have even more choice… and more time with Top Guy… you think they are easy to trick?)
: ]
My personal wings know sometime last year I became completely free from that noise.
YHT is a great standard. I support it 100%.
And for me… I am into YOUNGER/TIGHTER… but the endless chase to “fuck models” is something I care nothing about at all.
I want to be “excited” by the girl…and turned on. My COCK IS MY CEO. I want lots of attention. I want to maximize sex/affection in my life. Girls that do that… are PERFECT.
If I never fuck a “9”… I am quite sure I won’t even notice.
Viva daygame.
>> Another indication is that girls ghost after sleeping with you. Because if they met a “Top Guy” 9 or 10, they’d make sure to stick around.
Alright… so you have talked to the “9 and 10” guys… and they fuck often… with many girls… and those girls never ghost?
I am infinitely confident that GIRLS commonly GHOST AFTER SEX when you are having fast sex with lots of girls. I bet Paul Janka would agree. This is function of high volume sex life.
>> That maybe yes you have and display value, but it is the value that says “I am an 8/8.5” which is VERY attractive to 6s and 7s but very unattractive to 8s, 9s, and 10s.
I think you are down some rabbit hole where “faking value” works…and if you want “high value” girls… you have to “fake it even harder” to get them. That’s not what you’re saying… but I feel you defending “hacks.”
All that assumes that 1. Girls suck at screening guys for HONEST SIGNALS. And 2. That 8s-9s-10s are as bad, or worse, at screening for value as my lovely, delicious 7s.
I will counter your argument with the idea that high value girls have MORE CHOICE and MORE EXPERIENCE WITH TOP GUYS… and any “faking” will be even more obvious to them.
The “tricks” work… when they are done “on accident” or you don’t need them. If “faking cool” is your game… it’ll never work…and especially never with truely high value girls.
There are no hacks. Seriously. What kind of man is how “hack hunting” all the time? Does that sound like a solid guy to you?
>> it is good to be open minded to another perspective?
I am open to it… but this isn’t my first day in the community. I respect you, man… and I know it’s not your first day either.
It’s not that I can’t wrap my head around what is SUPPOSED to happen when you try to FORCE “chase me” game on girls. I get it.
But I’ll leave it to you to point to examples were “middling value” guys are fucking above their value by using those techniques.
That’s on you to prove.
And even if you did… I know what path feels more solid to me.
And MY POINT is that guys are adding problems to their game by trying that shit… they would be better served by BEING VALUE and showing that to the girl… not “techniques.”
Nash. I agree with you and I sometimes ask questions and put on perspectives to encourage debate.
I value authenticity over everything.
I actually met a true 9 yesterday, a beautiful 20 years old art student which is from a rich background, and every time I tried to “Game” her, she tells me that is weird.
But when I was “normal” and authentic, she liked me.
However, I’ve spent 10 years working on myself as a man. If I were “authentic” 10 years ago, I’d be a needy shy guy.
The hundreds of approaches and momentum I built help too, I am very open now.
All I am saying is that I am against hacks and faking things, but this should not be used as an excuse for guys to emulate any and all new kinds of behaviors just to test and see how they work in the real world.
And when they see they work, they should become that guy that is worthy of those responses.
I am becoming more and more of the man I am proud to be. So my inner game is solid because I like who I am becoming. If I were putting a fake persona and was staying a little bitch inside, girls would pick up on the honest signals of being a sleazy dude and I’d get no results.
All my intention is that: maybe there is a way to encourage girls to chase, and girls do enjoy it more when they do their part and chase at least some, so if we can gift them the gift of allowing them to chase, and there were some ways of doing that that would work, I am all for trying them out and see how they work and feel.
I also remember something Krauser said years ago which I tool to heart: The SMP is very efficient. High SMV women simply do not sleep with Low SMV men, no matter how “tight” their game is.
Bullseye. Great post. Wish every aspiring gamesman could be forced to read it.
I’m not a particularly cool guy, and the play-hard-to-get stuff held me back a long time. As a beginner, I needed to work on initiating, leading, and becoming less averse to conflict, rejection, and bad results.
By trial and error I discovered some stuff that worked for me as a beginner, but haven’t seen discussed much, that splits the difference between overeagerness and fake nonreactiveness. Ambiguous compliments and humorous compliments work well for me. By ambiguous compliments, I mean she thinks it’s a compliment but isn’t entirely sure (“You have very expressive eyebrows”). My humorous compliments are usually exaggerated or over-the-top, so the words are very complimentary but she’s not sure I mean it. These seem to work well coming from a position of medium value; I think partly because they’re indicators of interest that prevent her from responding because she doesn’t quite know how to take them. Instead, they simmer under the surface as she tries to figure out what they imply.
I think there are many places in game where what a low-value beginner should do and what a skilled, high-value cool guy should do are opposite. A beginner has to initiate more, indicate interest more, and overcome fears that inhibit his behavior. Often, once you lose the fear of doing something, you rarely have to do it anymore, because women can tell. But to lose the fear, you have to do it often.
>> I’m not a particularly cool guy, and the play-hard-to-get stuff held me back a long time. As a beginner, I needed to work on initiating, leading, and becoming less averse to conflict, rejection, and bad results.
Yeah, Johnny. This ^ is a comment that shows me you have experience with the lives of men… real men… trying to get this stuff.. This is the opposite of what cocky keyboard jockeys sound like… that’s why I trust you here. This is REAL for most guys.
We need REAL GUYS talking about real life.
>> By trial and error I discovered some stuff that worked for me as a beginner, but haven’t seen discussed much, that splits the difference between overeagerness and fake nonreactiveness. Ambiguous compliments and humorous compliments work well for me. By ambiguous compliments, I mean she thinks it’s a compliment but isn’t entirely sure (“You have very expressive eyebrows”).
^ This is great game. You are using some technique… but you’re also showing the role of your own hustle/charm in the process. You are recognizing how value is a part of what techniques work for us.
EX: “There is something kind of funny about you…” is a line I use via text that follows your ambiguous thing… and it can help me engage her… I only say it when there IS something “funny” about her.
>> My humorous compliments are usually exaggerated or over-the-top, so the words are very complimentary but she’s not sure I mean it.
This ^ BTW… is close to what I mean by Octopus Game. I’m saving this comment for when I write about that. You’re showing EFFORT (you’re “leaning in” socially), but it is “so much” it is not mistake for a tame move by a “lessor man.”
I think this stuff is 100% opposite of “nonreactiveness” and can be equally or more compelling.
But MORE IMPORTANTLY… “fake non reactiveness” is a complete DEAD END for guys getting started. Low value guys, doing low effort game… = nothing happens. At least with “over the top game” something is happening… it’s generative… always a better strategy, IMAO.
>> These seem to work well coming from a position of medium value; I think partly because they’re indicators of interest that prevent her from responding because she doesn’t quite know how to take them. Instead, they simmer under the surface as she tries to figure out what they imply.
Good game. I wouldn’t “AIM” for this… but if this was the BYPRODUCT of what you are doing… it would be very good game.
>> I think there are many places in game where what a low-value beginner should do and what a skilled, high-value cool guy should do are opposite. A beginner has to initiate more, indicate interest more, and overcome fears that inhibit his behavior. Often, once you lose the fear of doing something, you rarely have to do it anymore, because women can tell. But to lose the fear, you have to do it often.
Perfectly ^ said.
nash, i love this post. i think it’s a very important post for the manosphere, a good reminder: we need to work on creating VALUE. i was actually developing on a theory, the “five types of masculine value” that a man has. it’s incomplete, but it goes along with what your saying, and expands on it.
the five types of masculine value i identified:
1. the ability to cold approach, talk to girls without fear
2. a deep redpill understanding of women and their flaws
3. social proof and social connnections
4. actual skills, talents and abilities manifested in the real world, ideally tied to his masculine mission in life
5. being “edgy” and sexually dangerous
the last one, i actually separated out, because i think it’s that important. a man needs an edge. he needs to find his edge. the more dangerous he is, the more of a sexual threat he is, the more women get turned on by his masculine presence. and yeah, it’s not necessarily being violently dangerous, you don’t need to be an ex-con, but you need to be “sexually dangerous.”
best example, maybe, is the man with a guitar. a guitar isn’t violently dangerous, but women LOVE men who play the guitar, so if you play the guitar, girl A will get aroused, and she also knows that girls B, C and D will **also** get aroused — so now girl A is not only aroused herself, but knows she has to fight for your attention, so she is risking heartbreak. THAT is being a sexually dangerous man. a man who rides a motorcyle, he is also sexually dangerous, and this is a bit more tied to actually being physically dangerous.
so my theory is, a man needs to work on all five of these areas to become most effective and successful at slaying the pussy. and yeah, this all takes a lot of WORK. a lot of HUSTLE.
it takes a lot of hustle to be a “cool guy”!
[…] comment on nash’s […]
This is a great post man.
Some excellent comments around here, too.
Thanks, man.
>> talking to 4000 women while not being a cool / top guy doesn’t necessarily make you attractive.
— Yohami
You’re absolutely right.
I’m in an odd position where I advocate for VOLUME of approaching above almost everything else for MOST GUYS… but I do know that “SPAM APPROACHING” is mostly useless. So what’s the difference?
This is a hard for me to articulate…
……………………………..
In Japan… I hit a new level, for sure. I had such a gnarly Girl Tornado going (like nothing I had ever done before), I could see things I’d never seen before…
But notice… it started with tremendous EFFORT ON THE STREET… that generated leads (the effort worked)… that I would put more EFFORT into… to get them worked up over text and agreeing to dates… and then I had SO MANY DATES… and it was EFFORT to date them (it was exhausting)… but then… I had a POV I never had before… and things were happening with those girls EASIER than I am used to… and I cared less… and I was blowing off girls… and I could choose from the best options… I could GIVE ***MYSELF*** MORE OF WHAT I WANT AND LESS OF WHAT I DON’T WANT… I could focus on my favorites… I had choice… I was getting sex and intimacy… and I brought that momentum out onto the street… and I was better and better and BETTER with the girls… and then the new girls got added to the Tornado… and… UP AND UP AND UP.
It started with EFFORT. Effort became CHOICE. Choice felt like TOP GUY. Feeling like TOP GUY changed the “STYLE” of my effort… everything cycled up.
……………………………….
This ^ is still not TOP GUY game. I learned a LOT more about what TOP GUY is like for Yohami. I’ll talked about what I think more when I write about TEXT GAME… coming soon.
don’t develop a hard shell against beautiful women.
i like that line :-)
https://twitter.com/alpharivelino/status/977646148553977856
“Talking to 4000 women while not being a cool / top guy doesn’t necessarily make you attractive.” -Yohami
“You’re absolutely right. I’m in an odd position where I advocate for VOLUME of approaching above almost everything else for MOST GUYS… but I do know that “SPAM APPROACHING” is mostly useless. So what’s the difference? This is a hard for me to articulate…” -Nash
it’s not hard to articulate! talk to 1,000 beautiful girls, directly, with your balls out, telling them that you find them attractive, and get 900 rejects — this is very useful for a man because it CRUSHES YOUR EGO and helps you get over this fear of rejection because after 900 rejections, that fear can’t exist anymore.
so many societies and cultures have these “trials by fire” for young men, to PROVE that they are men. men have to BECOME men by overcoming their fears.
so by doing this TRIAL and getting 900 rejections, this helps you become a stronger man, and then, when you talk to girls, they notice this. they notice that you are not afraid of them, they can sense that inner strength, and they are AROUSED.
but yeah, don’t chase 1,000 girls out of desperation. be outcome independent. don’t be results oriented. do it as a TRIAL. do it for the process of KILLING YOUR EGO.
[…] my comment on nash’s blog: […]
I am figuring out how I feel about all this by talking about it…
This is a paraphrase of what I said above to Blue:
— We want to be THE THING that produces the RESULT… not try to force the result.
That is why those techniques are over-prescribed. They ignore the VALUE at the center of those results… and try to aim for the results… which is “fake game” and doesn’t work.
And that kind of advice is particularly unhelpful for most guys:
>> MORE IMPORTANTLY… “fake non reactiveness” is a complete DEAD END for guys getting started. Low value guys, doing low effort game… = nothing happens. At least with “over the top game” something is happening… it’s generative… always a better strategy, IMAO.
Yeah. “fake non reactiveness” is a dead end, because of the fakeness. But let’s slice it
Fake is bad
Authentic is good
Reactiveness is bad
Non-reactiveness is good
When you mix things like that you get combinations and will get random results
Faking non-reactiveness will work on a girl who takes non-reactiveness at face value and is less bothered by fakeness
Authentic reactiveness will work on a girl who values authenticity more than she values dominance, aka she can put up with your reactive nature, is ok with taking the lead, likes the other traits that come through with your authenticity (likely your candor and vulnerability)
But if you can, be authentically non-reactive.
Like that you have all the girls.
—-
So for every trait that you’d like to fake, find a way to make it real (TM).
>> When you mix things like that you get combinations and will get random results
That’s right… if you’re just throwing things against the wall… you’ll get hits/misses… almost randomly.
>> But if you can, be authentically non-reactive.
>> Like that you have all the girls.
This is more “treacherous territory” for guys…
“Non-reactive” is a “dead state.” You have to do a LOT more than be “non reactive.” Again, a “middling value guy doing nothing gets nothing.” So what is the crucial thing?
It’s the ACTIVITY… not the “non reactiveness.”
EX: If a little kid is freaking out… and the adult freaks out too… we have chaos. And the kid won’t feel better, nor will the kid have any reason to trust the adult.
But are we “non reactive” to kids? Do we ignore them? Sometimes, yeah… but not really. Good parenting is not about “being non reactive.”
We can “react” (that is normal, healthy behavior), but don’t let the kid lead. Don’t let the tantrum become pattern for attention getting.
This is more “judo.” It’s not A.) freak out or B.) “be non reactive”,” it’s C.) Lead that little bastard into some distraction that calms the kid down.
Lead. Be creative with your “distractions.” It’s an ACTIVE process of “doing” not “not doing” that is much closer to “good game” than the cool guy tactics.
………….
I get the non reactive thing.
On the street… sometimes girls stand really, really close to me. And I think sometimes that is a kind of test. Where she is using her sexual power and proximity to see if I “react” and step back… and that proves I’m not super solid with her (or my own) sexuality.
In that case, if I can stand still, remain calm, maybe even nudge closer to her without showing too much emotion… she should like that… that should turn her on.
Here too… there is an “active” quality. I am delivering VALUE in that moment… that is what turns her on… my solidity… she can feel my experience with women… not my “nothingness.”
……………
>> So for every trait that you’d like to fake, find a way to make it real (TM).
Yes to this.
And I am saying that based on my experience… those traits are real when they are “on accident,” when they are a BYPRODUCT of a good relationship with the girl.
So I will continue to advise guys to forget that whole “cool guy” school of thought in terms of their PROACTIVE game and their in-set strategy. Forget it. As a strategy that will lead guys toward looking “fake.”
Look for the lessons of that kind of game in RETROSPECTIVE analysis. That is the time to learn those lessons.
In set… show the authenticity… by focusing on your value and logistics and escalation. There are ACTIVE steps we can take there… to move our seductions forward.
When we do ^ this well… the “cool guy game” comes out naturally.
Yes. Non-reactiveness doesn’t mean ‘inactive’. It means that you’re leading, not following, you’re acting, not ‘reacting’. She’s reacting to you, and you’re acting on her. You have the hand on the wheel, you won’t jump scared or jumpy or be at the mercy of external stimuly, you’re the rock, so she can ‘let go of control’.
You’re not over excited, you’re calm, confident, self reassured, etc. “non-reactive”. But still very active.
And very active taking the opportunities she gives you.
First time dropping by here. Your comment section is on fire, my man! Awesome.
I really enjoyed your post. There is a lot of bullshit on pickup out there and a lot of guys who haven’t mastered any social skills themselves go out and start ignoring chicks.
Next thing you know, the bouncer is escorting newbie PUA out of the bar because he looks like he’s about to shoot up the place (happened to me once).
“Sir, can you come with me?”
>What’s going on?
“You’re making other people uncomfortable.”
>ohshit.jpg
I think you’re pretty spot on. You’ve got to start from somewhere, you’ve got to put in work.
A lot of guys look at the advice and get lost because they’ve never seen it work in context. For example: having a Devil May Care attitude or being aloof or indifferent.
I understood those things pretty well, but they never really gelled so perfectly as when I got married. My new bride and I went out to a bar, and I starting hitting on this cute college chick that was there.
I realized immediately what pieces I had been missing through my years of pickup when it came to attitude, aloofness, and abundance mindset.
I was able to truly have fun hitting on this girl because I realized it didn’t matter if she rejected me – I’ve got a sure thing tonight regardless, so this is just for me. Just to have fun.
A lot of guys miss that feeling, and try to read their own definitions into being aloof or carefree, and they come off as serial rapists.
As a parting thought: I’d love to blend two of these concepts together that you covered: Shutting a girl down as an opener, and explaining game as a way of gaming a chick. I feel like they might could work together pretty well. I’ll have to give it a go.
Anyway, good shit, brother!
Some further thoughts
————————————–
————————————–
RULE: GRUESOME WORK IS DEATH
When your self perceived value is beneath the girl’s (you’re bottom guy), closing that gap is ‘gruesome work’, and is unattractive.
Any and all of your work deflates your value and pushes you down further the bottom.
Anyone telling you that ‘pickup is work’ / ‘seduction is gruesome work’ is working on filling the gap of value from bottom guy to the girls value.
This is seduction as an uphill battle, and at the end of the day it can’t be won – any success means the girl either doesn’t see you as bottom (she gets the right combination of value so she pushes aside or can’t see what’s actually happening), or is intentionally exploiting your bottom frame and benefiting form all your free work.
So any success while on bottom frame is either:
A) Her actual self perceived value is under yours, so to her you’re not bottom (thus all your work was unnecessary). This disorients you as you don’t know exactly what you did to get this girl? it’s not something you can repeat on command, what happened??
Or
B) She’s taking you BECAUSE of the value gap AND because she benefits from all the work you’re putting in. This is the real danger as it gives you a taste of validation. This one teaches you to work more, and fixates you on specific things you did that somehow don’t tend to repeat and can’t get another girl by working the same exact bits, but you keep trying!!!
When Im writing about seduction here Im always talking about case 1. The girl who is seeing you as above her value and is offering compliance, is turned on, is not playing machiavelic games, doesn’t want your demise: the girl who is HAPPY to see you UP, wants your leadership, wants to play the feminine to your masculine. So that’s the context for all what follows.
Girls type A are the majority, it’s the natural order of things, they all want the ‘top guy’ and run away from the bottom guy. You playing bottom guy games explains the super high rejection rate in PUA, basically you’re screening all of them out. Then end with a handful of girls who have a self perceived value inferior than yours, girls who actually see the ‘top guy’ in you in spite of all the unnecessary gap/closing games you’re playing, AND
A bunch of B type girls, vampires, crazies, dysfunctional girls who likely have ‘holes’ on their personas and require external work for them to be functional, AKA, they are using your bottom guy work for their own sustainance. But the more you work on them, the more you have to work!
Death.
What would be non death?
Seduction without any of the gruesome work. Seduction with no work put in whatsoever. Seduction for the A type girls. Seducing “girls who like you”
Heh. Seducing girls who like you!!!!
But is it possible? yes.
But here I’ll write about how Beta is death, then do some pointers to illustrate the difference.
————————————–
————————————–
RULE: CHASE IS DEATH
When the girl perceives you’re bottom, she’ll raise walls. Any attempt to bring these walls down by putting more ‘work’ only increases the value difference, and likely makes her raise the walls some more.
————————————–
————————————–
RULE: BETA IMPERSONATION IS DEATH
One of the “gruesome work / ways to fill the gap” behaviors that come from bottom frame is the adoption of a beta personality. But what is it?
“I am like you, and Im not a threat”
Basically ‘friendship’.
Any time where you’d require the girl to engage in your SAME EXACT BEHAVIOR for things to work out.
Asking questions but she doesn’t ask any? telling stories but she doesn’t tell any? you’re investing but she doesn’t invest back?
Would that be solved if she would JUST do the same as you’re doing?
Then you’re playing a beta game – or, look at it:
* * *
Do you want the girl to behave like you?
Then you’re acting like a girl.
* * *
You can’t get a girl to ‘chase you’ or invest, or ask questions, or tell the truth, or anything, by ‘leading by example’. You need to LEAD, but you can’t “lead by example”
Seduction, or ‘the courtship’ is not about sameness.
————————————–
————————————–
RULE: BETA INTERROGATION IS DEATH
When you ask questions, then act as if you care about the answers she gave you (and believe anything she says), and proceed to ask more questions.
So the energy is going down and you try to fill that gap by asking more stuff.
Hey! If she would just engage more and ask questions back, everything would be fine!
* * *
Me: Are you going to university?
Her: yes
Me: What do you study?
Her: Medicine
Me: Do you know how to stitch a wound?
Her: I do
Or
Me: How many boyfriends have you had?
Her: one
Me: Did you kiss?
Her: a little
Me: Are you a virgin???????
Her: …. yes?
(Nash we’ve found another one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
————————————–
————————————–
RULE: BETA STORY TELLING IS DEATH
1) When you’re giving unprompted information / telling stories that require her to be invested and ask more information for any of it to work
If she would just care, everything would be fine!!
* * *
Me: I have an uncle that studies architecture
Her: oh yeah?
Me: Yes, he went to Boston
Her: oh
Me: my other uncle studied engineering
Her: …
Me: When I was a kid I wanted to be a veterinarian
Her: puppies are cute!
Me: I liked cows…
* * *
2) When you’re telling stories or sharing unprompted information that serves the purpose of telling her “Im like you / Im in your tribe”.
If she would just find this sameness attractive, everything would be fine!!!
* * *
Her: Im ecuadorian
Me: (talking with latin american accent) hola como estas??
Me: I went to ecuador, muy bonitas playas! (beautiful beaches)
Her: yes… they are pretty
Me: I know how to cook enchiladas, look at this enchilada I made (shows picture)
Her: ….
————————————–
————————————–
RULE: BETA ROLE PLAYING IS DEATH
A ‘roleplay’ is when you narrate a reality outside of normal reality and make it about you both and this progresses escalation. So, a ‘beta’ roleplay takes you out of the equation, makes it just about her, and puts her on a pedestal to be admired. Or, take all the edge of a roleplay, tamper down all the tease, and fill it with compliments.
* * *
Me: I have to tell you I like your style!
Her: yeah?
Me: You have a flair.. look like a singer, I can imagine you on your room trying a dress and singing to the hairbrush…
Her: …hehe
Me: Singing britney spears songs!!!
Her: oh I like britney spears
Me: (impersonating) Toxic!! you’re like tooxic to mee!
A few minutes later
Me: I have an uncle that studied medicine
Her: …
Me: His name is frank
Her: ok
Me: Good music here don’t you think?
Her: yes I like it
Me: I have a friend on a band, they play
Me: What kind of music do you listen to?
Her: I like cumbia
Me: (dancing) cumbia is like this right?
Me: my friend pedro used to dance cumbia
Fuck all this.
I’ll follow up with more later.
>> Me: How many boyfriends have you had?
>> Her: one
>> Me: Did you kiss?
>> Her: a little
>> Me: Are you a virgin???????
>> Her: …. yes?
>>
>> (Nash we’ve found another one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
Asshole! ; ]
:-D
NASH: How many boyfriends have you had?
Her: one
NASH: Did you kiss?
Her: a little
NASH: Are you a virgin???????
Her: …. yes?
NASH: Oh, yeah, I knew it!!!!
NASH: You LOOK like a virgin…
NASH: You’re the biggest virgin ever
Her: LOL
NASH: I bet I’m the first boy you’ve ever talked to…
Her: LOL
NASH: I think this means you must really like me!
NASH: This means we’re boyfriend/girlfriend, right???
Her: LOL
: ]
These following lines from you are tease / roleplay and good game.
Im gonna write how to turn the classic beta interview mode into proper ‘alpha rapport’, which is just rapport that gets broken or is a bridge to flirting, teasing, roleplaying and escalation, like you did there.
>> telling stories that require her to be invested and ask more information for any of it to work
I can draw a line from this ^ comment to something I learned from you when you were talking about the difference between SWINGING YOUR DICK and MAKING A BIG MOVE.
I think part of the distinction for you was… “does she have to participate?”
— If she DOES NOT… you are “swinging your dick” (low risk)
— If she DOES have to participate… make she she’s ready before you try it (higher risk)
Yes.
Good post, Yohami… I am laughing at your examples.
I’m looking fwd to PART II.
Im being an asshole to Pancake too :-D he’ll know when she sees them
Very funny ;-). Your critique of those texts over the summer helped. I no longer do that. My text game is very minimal now. Basically just logistics, mixed in with some sexual innuendos/teasing/disqualifying. I don’t know if I’ve noticed any improvements, I still have 60-90% flake rate on numbers, but at least I text less and think less, so that saves me time…
Specific question: when I game a foreign girl whose language I am fluent in, I still do talk to her in that language. Is that at least OK, in your book? see it as a DHV.
I also often talk about how often I travel, and how I’ve lived in many different countries. Again, I see this as a DHV.
This is a good example of what my texting looks like now from open to close (this was Instagram DM, also its an Indian girl so white god status activated): https://imgur.com/a/ZQfJc
Fucking bravo, that is so much better!
Pancakemouse gave me a heads up here. Hit him up since I’m in the South Bay area for ~1 week.
I like the level of technical depth in this blog. I’m looking forward to meeting more wings & testing my game.
I think I have a different style than you guys since I’ve developed my game mostly in Asia, but the underlying principles are similar. I don’t really have AA and have approached all sorts of sets. I can also hook with relative consistency.
I think based on recent observations of other wings I have more introvert leaning tendencies so I actually get drained from socializing a lot (yes even with girls). So I need to actually push myself to follow-up with girls, which is where I’m facing some hiccups. I actually don’t feel like hitting her up during a busy day at work or after a long day of work & thereby can violate the “striking while the iron is hot” rule.
Any suggestions on how to deal with this? I know extroverts don’t have this problem as I’ve winged with extroverts and they can just approach, approach, approach. He thought I was “stifled”, when I was really tired from just talking all day & thinking about other business matters. I know that’s not the issue as I went on shortly after to open, hook, and contact close a set.
Anyway, I haven’t seen any insights into my sticking point of follow through beyond brute force “just do it”. I’m hoping there’s a more elegant solution than that.
Also, I’m a big believer in getting the girl to chase you. Not overtly as I agree you need to lead the interaction (girls simply won’t do anything or much even if they like you). But just framing the interaction this way (while you make all the leading moves) had a big impact on my game.
Glad to see this kind of technical in-depth discussion on game. I don’t believe in mass approaching without strategic review. Mass approaching is great for beginners to get over AA & gain ref. experiences. But after enough approaches, the time for strategic maneuvers begins. Otherwise, it’s approach->rejection/blowout or approach->get lucky. Not a great plan for game consistency.
Hope to see y’all out on the field :)
Breaking down Dardo’s text messages here and compiling more rules
—————————————————————————————————————————
ME: Hey, how are you doing?
ME: Are you the new Jessica Jones already? ;)
SHE: Hii! Good and you? Yeah, I’m knocking lots of doors (muscle emoji)
ME: Awesome. You’re gonna make it.
ME: I’m great, just came back from swimming. I feel like a piece of silk now.
ME: Which day are you free this week to go grab a drink?
SHE: Hahaha, I love swimming! (Jajaja, qué rico nadar!).
SHE: Look, on Thursday I’ll go away for the long weekend and I’ll come back on Monday.
—————————————————————————————————————————
Breakdown
“ME: Hey, how are you doing?”
Without her name or a nickname, this is 100% rapport. If you initiate with rapport, break it.
———————————
———————————
RULE: RAPPORT IS UNATTRACTIVE, BREAKING RAPPORT IS ATTRACTIVE
Breaking rapport means breaking the flow of a boring conversation with something more interesting, a flirt, a tease, a call to action. So if you do a rapport like this:
Me: Hey pocahontas, how are you doing?
Me: Let’s go get that drink
THIS above is good game. The how are you doing? does generate some of the good things associated with rapport, but it’s set aside immediately with a call to action. It “ramps” into the call to action. So
———————————
———————————
RULE: USE RAMPS BEFORE CALL TO ACTIONS
Before asking her or telling her to do something, make sure she’s receptive. Sometimes you need to wait for her to be in receptive mode, sometimes you can ‘assume’ she’s receptive.
So you can do
Me: Hey pocahontas, how are you doing?
Her: Im fine you?
Me: Im great. Ready for that drink?
Her: Yes I am :-)
That above is her compliance, she’s receptive. Then you reward
Me: Awesome
Then you do the call to action
Me: Let’s do this wednesday at XXX at XXX
So – this is still ‘long form’ and depending on the energy level you can make it shorter, by assuming she’s receptive. My favourite line and I can’t believe you guys are not using it, goes like this
Me: When are you free? I’ll take you out
Note that this doesn’t have a day on it, a week, a year, it’s open ended, it’s not sticking, not pushing, it’s as on the air as possible. The next “I’ll take you out” it’s not a question, is what will happen. THIS above is how I frame the interactions since the beginning. It assumes the thing will happen. I don’t ask or wait until she is receptive, because knowing female cycles, she WILL be receptive, some day, so when that day happens, she’s mine. I don’t really care when, but the longer she takes the more likely Im going to be busy banging someone else.
So this shorter form assumes she’s receptive (someday, probably now)
Assuming she’s receptive, when done easy and right, usually makes her receptive because this assumption is, on itself, attractive. It comes from “Everyone is receptive to my advances so this interaction will go well as well”
Here are some more variations
Me: Hey pocahontas ;-)
Me: Ready for that drink?
or
Me: Hey pocahontas, ready for that drink? ;-)
———————————
———————————
RULE: ASSUME ATTRACTION, ASSUME SUCCESS, ASSUME NON FRICTION
This is “go for the openings and not the walls, the walls are not your problem”. Go into the interaction assuming that she’s been thinking about you, has been waiting for you. This isn’t something that you have to ‘turn on’ on text, but something that should be there, with you, as your natural assumption ALL THE TIME, when you look at her, when you say hi, when you do things.
This assumption is simply ‘the game you play’. This is the sort of interaction you’re doing with people, and nothing else. You’re the one they like.
Or you don’t play with them.
Which is demonstrated in that you don’t chase them, don’t try to impress them, and are not reactive to their approval or disapproval, and don’t get trapped in their problems and obstacles.
—————————————————————————————————————————
Back to you:
“ME: Hey, how are you doing?
ME: Are you the new Jessica Jones already? ;) ”
The second line is again rapport, so that makes your text twice as rapport. You add an emoji at the end, but you are not ‘flirting’.
You are ‘caring’
When she replies this:
“SHE: Hii! Good and you? Yeah, I’m knocking lots of doors (muscle emoji)”
Note how she’s not in any way sexual, and she’s not replying anything to YOU, you framed it as not being between you and her, but you’re doing small asexual chat about a third external thing. Do you see how she ignores YOU?
But whose fault is that? it’s yours. You put her on a pedestal to be admired. Here’s the worst offender
“ME: Awesome. You’re gonna make it.”
This is so bad, this is the reason Im making this longer form breakdown with rules and stuff. Who are you in this interaction? Here’s a clue
Grandmother: Hi how are you doing? did you get that job already??
Kid: no grandma! but I keep going to interviews!!
Grandmother: Ohh keep knocking doors, you’re going to make it!!
Why are you being her grandma? why do you care?
I don’t think you care. If you cared you wouldn’t be changing the subject from jobs, to taking her out.
Thee REASON you’re talking to her, your actual goal is to bang her. The REASON you’re texting her and talking to her at all is because you want your dick in her.
But when you contact her, first you say: HEY I CARE by doing rapport
Then you say : HEY I CARE ABOUT YOUR WORK
Then you say: I BELIEVE IN YOU, YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE IT!
Then you switch and say: DO YOU WANT SOME DICK NOW? with the call to action
So the value you are offering her, the way you’re framing this interaction, is your beta putting her on a pedestal status.
Everything is fucking wrong about it.
First, it means your value is soooo under her, you are filling the gap very hard. You’re giving her a reason to look at you
———————————
———————————
RULE: STOP GIVING A FUCK ABOUT HER
She’s got a job? she can quit it
She’s got plans? she can cancel them
She’s got problems? why do you care?
How does that relate to the main, most important going on at the moment, which is you?
Ah she’s got other things going on that are more important than you at the moment? no problem and good luck princess, ping me when your head is in the right place.
You’re not her therapist
You’re not her friend
You’re not the recipients for her complaints about other people
You’re not her helper
You’re not her backrubber
You’re not her cheerleader
Because.
You.
Don’t.
CARE.
If respect has to be earned, CARE needs to be earned plus a million. What has she done for you exactly to get you invested to the point your emotions go up and down attached to her fucking JOB? why would you care about her problems? Do you think she cares about yours?
So when you go after a girl signaling that you care, what you are saying, really, is that ‘care’ is the value you have to offer. “Care” is a very expensive commodity and should only be spent on close friends, mutually beneficial, tested relationships.
By opening her with ‘care’ you’re framing this as a relationship where you’re her grandmother, you are below her, like a safe pillow she can fall into – a pillow with a dick.
So you are saying, you’re not the dick she’s hunting.
What is the dick she’s hunting? one above her
———————————
———————————
RULE: THE PRETTIER THE GIRL, THE MORE DIRECT YOUR GAME NEEDS TO BE
Girls only sexual drive is hypergamy.
So you’re trying to bang this girl? you need to signal you’re higher in value than she is, because girls only sexual drive is hypergamy. This means you can’t at the same time play a game where you are under her, and the tolerance for this kind of behavior is less the more pretty the girl is, simply for the reason that the more pretty a girl is, the more she’s hit by alphas, which means
You are always being compared against more top-guys.
The bar gets set higher the prettier the girl. She has more direct, self reassured, ‘cleaner’, stronger men to compare you against. You have less room for bullshit.
Direct still doesn’t mean chasey, and doesn’t mean caring
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Back to you
“ME: I’m great, just came back from swimming. I feel like a piece of silk now.
ME: Which day are you free this week to go grab a drink?”
More rapport bs, but at least this time you broke it.
Look at this:
“ME: Which day are you free this week to go grab a drink?”
Compare it to this, fixed:
ME: When are you free? Let’s grab that drink
Do you see it?
The first part, I don’t include “this week” because that’s putting constrains and obstacles. Maybe she’s got “this week” full of books to read or dicks to suck – not my problem. By saying “this week” she may reply with “this week Im busy” which is just a setup for me to chase her. Next week then? “busy”, ok “the week after this week after that week???” mmm I think Im busy, hey my mom is calling see ya!
Chase is death.
So to prevent that, don’t inject your own obstacles in the call to action.
The other part of that phrase, I say “LETS GRAB THAT DRINK”, “Let’s” is a command, and “that drink” frames it as our previous agreement, so Im treating this as a defacto thing that will happen, again. Now compare it again
“Which day are you free this week to grab a drink”
It’s needy and pushy. Inches, but every inch counts. And this, in an interaction where you just opened like you’re her grandma. These inches multiply exponentially, especially when this girl is pretty and is being sweet talked by Pablo and Mario. Who are you in that context?
Back to her:
“SHE: Hahaha, I love swimming! ”
She makes it about her. Note the pattern? girls always making everything about them. Did she tell you “good for you Im proud that you swim” no? “you’ll reach all of your swimming objectives keep going” no? what? she doesn’t care about you? she made it about herself.
To bang a girl you need to make it about her. About you and her.
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RULE: MAKE IT ABOUT YOU AND HER
Make it about her because all women are self entitled center of the universe, are always right and can’t never be wrong type of creatures. That’s because they are emotion, and ’emotion is always right’.
So you make it about her by addressing the cues she gives you, make it about you and signal that you’re a top guy by exhibiting top guy behavior, and make it about the two of you with roleplay, story telling, call to actions, flirts.
Other subjects, stories, jobs etc only make sense when you are making them about you two. She is also HELPING YOU go there. For example when you say you went swimming, and she replies that she likes to swim, the only reasonable thing to say back is that you two should go swimming together
Me: oh cool (reward)
Me: Let’s go swimming, where do you practice?
Her: blah blah
Me: I’ve got a pool home ;-) let’s do a night naked dip
Her: hahahaha
FUCK HER DUDE :-D
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Back to you.
“SHE: Look, on Thursday I’ll go away for the long weekend and I’ll come back on Monday.”
She’s traveling with Mario and Pablo. She doesn’t offer a raincheck.
“I’m gonna write her that’s awesome and tell her to write me when she comes back.”
No don’t do that. If the interaction had been progressing better, I’d say “Let’s have a drink before you go”, but she just gave you a wall and there’s no raincheck. This was a very shitty interaction and it needs to be reframed immediately.
If you do the top guy thing that is to push her away – she’s actually getting what she wants because you have zero value right now. So if you say
“Aight, have fun”
She will, have lots of fun, and never come back to you.
“Awesome, ping me when you’re back”
Likewise, this will never happen. Not based on this interaction.
So make it a point that she has to rank you RIGHT NOW. This is usually a bad idea unless she’s closer to DTF, but you have to shake the grandma off, by doing something grandma doesn’t do: Try to fuck her.
READ CAREFULLY:
Me: Let’s have a drink on wednesday when you’re back
Me: We can also have to today so you go on your trip with a smile on your face ;-)
So
“Me: Let’s have a drink on wednesday when you’re back”
This is taking her wall, I acknowledge, and bend to her. Im still doing it as a “Let’s” so it’s a command. But then
“Me: We can also have to today so you go on your trip with a smile on your face ;-)”
This is now IGNORING her fucking wall, taking an opportunity, and going for the kill. It also assumes attraction and success, she’ll go on her trip happy after a good fuck. All this bravado and taking action has been missing in your interaction which is how you’re missing out on the fun.
This will arouse her, maybe shake off the grandma impression
Her: hahahaha
Then she will either say yes or no
Her: Ok I can on wednesday (you bang her)
Me: Caracas Bar 8pm
Or a wall
Her: I can’t today but we can talk about it when I come back
Me: Cool, ping me when you know (and let her go)
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And here’s how the cleaner game would look like
ME: Hey Jessica Jones ;-)
SHE: Hii! How are you?
ME: Sore because I went swimming, I feel like a piece of silk!
SHE: Hahaha I love swimming!
ME: Me too, let’s go for a skinny dip sometime ;-)
SHE: hahaha maybe :D
ME: When are you free? let’s grab that drink
SHE: Look, on Thursday I’ll go away for the long weekend and I’ll come back on Monday.
ME: … and you’re free when?
SHE: hahaha next week after monday?
ME: Ok we can go on wednesday after you’re back
ME: Or we can do it today so you go on your trip with a happy face ;-)
SHE: Hum..
ME: I vote today!
SHE: I can tomorrow before the trip, but I have to go to bed at 10pm!!
ME: No problem, I’ll get you in bed before 10pm :-)
SHE: hahahaha
ME: See you at caracas bar 8pm
SHE: ;-x
Bang bang bang
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That above still has friction, this is what it should look like when you just do things and are congruent since the beginning. If you see my texts messages, they are all puzzles pre-solved, because all the stuff is already there
ME: Hey Jessica Jones ;-) ready for that drink?
SHE: Hii! How are you? yes :-) :-)
ME: Im awesome :-) let’s go today? See you at caracas bar 8pm
SHE: ;-x
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THAT is where you have to aim for
I want to cry. This is the greatest thing you have EVER posted and every single fucking guy needs to read this, now.
I keep going back to bad habits. I keep going back to interview questions. I keep dancing around the fact that I want to fuck her.
I need to print this out and put it on my wall, NOW.
I agree with pancakemouse, that’s impressive and loving every word!
Yohami, you are at your greatest when you create rules like that. Then the information is pure and clean in useable form, not spread out through text.
It is BRILLIANT!
More rules in other areas of dealing with girls? lol
Yeah I think these ‘rules’ are a good method to point at what’s important. I often mention ‘the basics’ and go back to the big picture but this is more digestible. Glad that it resonates, put the shit into practice and take notes, the changes should be obvious :-D
Yes! Already read them 3 times, and now digesting them deeper.
If you’d write Top Guy Rules, then that would be the greatest thing you’ve ever wrote!
I like the metaphor of the king with the girls running towards him, and the guys on the outside chasing the girls and the girls running away. That metaphor was powerful, I hope you use it in the rules.
I believe Top Guy Rules are important because if a guy comes across as Bottom Guy in real life then goes Top Guy in text, he’ll get shit tested hard because the girl will thing: “WTF?!”
So Top Guy real life rules are essential for all men to learn.
Re: gaming two girls, Factory faced the same issue. http://www.daysofgame.com/dates/tyo-making-japanese-mormon-virgin/#comment-4274
There should be basically no difference, you have to be the same guy. Go there and see ‘what they respond to’. There are no other special mysteries. All the obstacles and stuff you’re trying to figure out from here are in your imagination.
Empty your imagination, expose yourself to what is.
Blue… I sent you an email. Check your address and/or your spam folder. Thanks!
Hey Nash. There is a problem with my email server.
And today, I feel too “blue” to fix it. But this too shall pass. :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIoeXkQ9YM0
Gold.
Best guys to learn from are naturals. This guy lives in San Francisco, has laycount of 1100+, friend of RSD Jeffy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHrXGkVtb0c&t=12s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpHNwgM1_oE
Nice charisma breakdown
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