My Experience with Non-Sexual Social Proof (State Booster)
Going back to 2006, when I read The Game, this concept of Social Proof was very interesting. After many years, I have a different take than I originally had on that concept, and how it relates to game.
I won’t reference my copy of that book, but as I remember it, there was this idea, that “people do what other people do.” That means that 1.) Girls like guys that already have hot girls in their life. I’m calling this SEXUAL social proof. And 2.) As you developed relationships with folks in environments where you game, the recognition those people give you would be “social proof” and girls would notice that… and they would think you were high value, etc. This I’ll call NON-SEXUAL social proof.
As for point 1.), Yes. Girls do like guys that other girls have “pre-selected.” Jealousy plot lines, all that. Okay, true. Sexual social proof is real, but hard to manifest for most guys. It’s “alpha” game, and many players do well without this particular flavor of alpha game (sigma game, per Krauser).
It’s point 2.) that I’ve been thinking about. NON-SEXUAL social proof.
“Once girls are seeing you lounging around and talking with staff and other patrons like a fixture of the place, they’ll come to view you as “connected,” and thus (in that environment, at least… and social proof is all environmental, rather than absolute) higher status and more desirable.”
This concept was something that appealed to me when I got into game, maybe because I thought I had potential to be successful here. And I have been very successful here. And I have noticed almost nobody does this. Not my wings, not my friends. And I get a lot back from my work to be “social proofed” in terms of staff in places where I am being social.
But… I don’t think it’s ever helped me get a girl.
I just don’t think most people notice social proof, in the same way that most of my wings never bothered with this, or notice the perks I get by being heavily socially proofed in my communities.
I think the “girls like guys that already have hot girls” thing works — because SEX is something everyone notices. Girls notice guys in sexy situations, guys notice, everyone notices. But just “high value” friendliness, is under most people’s radar… because mostly people can’t even see that level of social skill.
I mention “high value,” in that I don’t think I’m kiss ass, not at all. That’s not what it feels like, and I don’t see that in the reactions I get. (I have some examples below.)
My formula for this “social proof” with the community (not the “hot girls” kind), is this: 1.) Go places regularly. 2.) Look folks in the eyes. 3.) Ask how they’re doing, and care. 4.) Tip (if that’s relevant). 5.) Say “hi”, even when you’re not getting a drink, etc. 6.) Repeat.
In my experience, this gets you seriously social proofed. People are great to me everywhere I go. I don’t think it helps me get laid, not directly. But I think it does help, indirectly… I’ll get to that in a minute.
First, some examples:
*.) I went to pick up my food at this place I go a lot, and I didn’t have to say anything, the guy at the counter knows me, spotted me in the back of the crowd, gave me a nod, and called me to the front to pick up my food, shook my hand, smiled. That guy is super cool to me.
*.) Same night, bouncer doesn’t check my ID, shakes my hand, pats me on the back as I walk into the bar.
*.) Same night, I order a beer from this bar tender that likes me… for no reason, other than we’re cool. I always pay with a $20, as he often gives me free drinks (almost every time), and I want to tip him heavy, so I pay with the $20 (as I don’t know what my bill will be), and tip him hard from the change he gives me… which is often $20 change (he just breaks my $20, and hands it back to me, in part so the other patrons don’t see he’s giving me free drinks). In this case, I’m so social proofed, he doesn’t even want my money. This is not a “transaction.” We just exchange cool vibes… and I get free drinks as a side bonus.
*.) Same night, I go to a club. I always test out different bar tenders in a club/bar, and when I find a cool one, I stick with that person, and invest in that relationship over that night or multiple nights. In this case, this lovely Russian girl at my favorite club, loves me. I order the same thing each time, so when I show up… she’ll notice me in the crowd, nod, and start pouring my drinks while she pouring someone else a drink, but I’m always “next” with her, no matter how many people are at her bar. More than that… I can’t order many drinks with her, as she pours me a full glass of whiskey each time (all my drinks are at least “doubles” with her), and I get hammered when I’m at her bar, even if I just have “a couple.” (She is an interesting example, as she’s hot, popular, smiles at me and says hello, in a high-end club… still never gets me any attentions from girls).
*.) Next day… at lunch with a friend. We order food, and sit to eat… owner comes over and shakes my hand. My friend doesn’t notice, which is typical. No one notices this stuff.
*.) My friend and I go to a café I work at a lot, both baristas light up when they see me, say hello, chat and smile, ask me if I want “my usual.”
*.) Later that day, I’m out running daygame… the bouncer from the previous story spots me on the street, walks over to say hi, shakes my hand.
*.) I go to get a tea at the mall I go to a lot, baristas there know me, know “my usual” order, pull me out of line, have my order ready, don’t charge me, big smile, tell me to have a nice day. They don’t even take tips at this place… so this isn’t about a “transaction” either.
*.) When I was gaming in Japan, this prostitute would try to get me to be a customer, but I’m not into paying for sex. We became “friends,” sort of, as her English was good, and we’d chat for a few minutes each night when I was out in that part of Shibuya. One year later I came back, was crossing the street, and she stopped me to say hi. She remembered me, a year later, and I had enough “value” for her to be social with me, even though I’ve never been a customer. Ha, this example makes me laugh.
*.) I was out at a different club recently, went to my favorite bar tender (I only see this woman, 2X per year, and I’m sure she’s a lesbian), I ordered a nice whiskey and a bottle of water. She charged me $4. I looked at her, and she said, “your first one is on me.” She hasn’t seen me in 6 months, I didn’t even have a chance to tip her. Pro-active love from her, all social proof.
I have 1000 examples like this, over and over, every day. Sometimes, in places I’m at for the first time, where I get radical service, because I’m cool with people. No one notices.
I took a girl on a date recently, did my usual social stuff, we got treated royally. We end up at a beer bar where I know a lot of folks… I get hugs/high fives from everyone behind the bar… we get special tastings, etc. She doesn’t notice or care. I’m not surprised.
No one has ever commented on this stuff to me. Not ever.
So yes, the SEXUAL proof with hot girl stuff… having a pile of hot girls around you, and how that attracts other girls… yes, that works. Fuck I wish that was my reality. I’m working on it. But for most of us, that will never happen. Not consistently.
But that other NON-SEXUAL social proof? That “staff” and others in your social places noticing you, giving you obvious, special treatment… no one cares. I’m great at this, I’m not guessing, no one cares but me and those people.
So why bother to look at that kind of social proof? Because it’s a state booster.
When the bouncer gives you love on your way into the club, and the bar tender pours you a double, your night has momentum, before you start in with strangers. That’s worth the effort.
This is what my conclusion is, after years of this kind of social proofing myself. No one gives a shit, but I do. And those people do. And the social bond makes us feel good. It’s value. And I take those “feel goods” into other socialness in those places… into the pickup. The girls don’t notice the proof, but they can feel my improved state, and that helps.
SEXUAL social proof, where girls are obviously sending out “pro-you” sexual signals, everyone can see that, so it works. NON-SEXUAL social proof, is just very good social skills, and most people don’t have very good social skills, so they can’t even see it. But you will. And it will make you feel good, boost your state, and help you approach or work your game with more confidence.
There you have it.
When I’m out daygaming… I work my social status, not that girls notice, but so that I’m socially-juiced, and I can perform better. This is true with my constant giving to tourists, also works as a state booster.
Okay…. let’s go talk to girls.
You go on a date with a girl, you get social proof but she doesnt notice or care =
She rejected you for something else before she would even care about the social proof. But she liked you enough initially or she wouldnt have gone on a date.
So what is that she liked, and what is that she didnt like about you?
How would you describe yourself overall, more alpha than beta, more beta than alpha, something else?
>> She rejected you for something else before she would even care about the social proof.
That particular girl is not that into me. True. Went out w/ me twice… but she’s definitely not that into me.
However, I don’t think her “not noticing” the social proof has anything to do w/ her not being that into me. I think… most people don’t notice/care about NON-SEXUAL social proof.
My ex GF never noticed or cared about that kind of relationship. She was almost rude (with servers in restaurants), when I would be social (and I would stand out, and people remember me, treat me well). My wings never notice or care about that kind of relationship. It’s like that can’t see it.
And that was my point… NON-SEXUAL social proof is evidence of good social skills, but only people with good social skills will notice (=most girls will not, most people will not). But… it’s still worth doing, as it improves one’s social skills, and… boosts your state, which might help with girls.
>> How would you describe yourself overall, more alpha than beta, more beta than alpha, something else?
Yes, more alpha than beta. I’d say I’m more social than dominant. I don’t “giggle” around high value guys. I don’t kiss ass (but I love to compliment people). I make strong eye contact, with everyone. When I bump into someone, I say “hi” not “sorry.” I’d call myself “awake” (socially, and in the redpill sense), but not necessarily “alpha.” I like Krauser’s “sigma” concept… I think I’m closer to that than alpha.
In business, I’m alpha. With girls, less so.
I have a lot of very dominant alpha friends. They don’t try to dominate me. I have a lot of respect with those guys… but I’m not alpha like they are.
Girls that date me more than 2 times… are usually very into me, stick around indefinitely, push for more time. I get rejected a lot in the first dates, but I always do the breaking up if it goes past 2 dates. Always. Gives say “I love you” to me, much earlier, and more often, than I ever would back.
If I have compliance issues w/ girls, it’s at first… but once they’re in, they’re compliant… they are always asking for more, but are compliant within that struggle.
I always lead. With friends and girls. I’m clearly a leader.
Thanks for the info.
What is the reason, in your opinion, that women are not throwing themselves at you?
Hmmm, I’m tempted to just take this as a hypnotic suggestion:
“Women should be throwing themselves at me.”
To be more literal… I can think of times when women have thrown themselves at me… almost always from within my social circle. Or at work (when I had an office job). On the dancefloor/club, even now. I think that goes along w/ your hierarchy/alpha reality. I had a very good date with a daygame girl last night… she was in the ballpark of throwing herself at me… why she was such a strong “yes,” I don’t know. I know I teased her mercilessly… maybe even too much. She was very into me, starting with the approach… she’s very cute, and at least 10 years younger than me.
Ha… I think most men would never adopt the frame “women should be throwing themselves at me.” I can see how assuming they should would help your game… even if you’re wrong. But it’s going to take a lot more than internal entitlement to make things actually happen (unless you are, 1. very good looking or 2. alpha/famous).