I can see two primary and very different strategies for moving toward sex after you’ve picked a girl up. I see FAST SEDUCTION… were you try to fuck her same day or first date. We get that. AND… I also wonder about intentionally implementing a DATE MODEL? Not because you’re AFC, but because you think it works better.
Those are two approaches to moving toward sex that I want to discuss here. And it’ll feature some thinking on this topic from RSD Julien, Smirking Soldier, Lance Mason, Steve Mayeda, Paul Janka, Rivelino, and Krauser.
Which is better? Fast sex or a date model? Of course that depends on who you are and what itch you’re looking to scratch. I can state what “better” means to me… and I will in a minute. And your “better” will likely be different than mine. And different men, with different wants, and different circumstances all call for different styles of game. But this “lens” into bedding girls has been on my mind lately. I want to talk about it.
Let’s start here:
“What is the best way to get a girl friend? It’s important to understand this…”
— RSD Julien (from RSD’s “Pimp Game”)
Julien is talking “girlfriend” here and I don’t want a GF. Not really. What interests me here is where Julien goes with that comment… and we’ll see that he thinks it applies to more than just taking notches.
We’ll come back to this in a minute.
Back to me for a minute… what I want is this:
I want to have experiences, lots of them. I want the skills and philosophical guidance to make more of those experiences “good ones.” And I want to give girls good experiences (that is part of the fun for me).
Those are my stated goals in game. It’s not about being a nice guy (fuck “being nice”). It’s about getting what I want… and not hating myself for how I do that. That’s what I want.
I want sex. I want “new sex” (what the FatItalian calls “strange”). I want to meet and seduce new women, regularly. And I very much want to have more iterations of the “model” — from pickup to orgasms. Because I want to really understand it… and because it’s a very entertaining and rewarding exploration for me.
And… I want some “recurring revenue,” where a given girl and I get after each other more than once. Where I get to fuck a girl multiple times over multiple days or weeks. At least “three times,” let’s say… so there is some familiarity to it all. And for truly excellent girls, I want them in my life on an ongoing basis. I want to sample a lot of girls (their minds and their bodies), but I also want to “go deep” with them… work out a sexual rhythm. Allow time and trust to make things even nastier (Miss Thick is my favorite example of all time).
So no, I don’t want a girlfriend. I want all this ^. And this is what “better” means to me. Notches. Yeah. But also some “recurring revenue.”
What is the best way to get all that?
Here is a CHALLENGE I am looking at as I try to work this out:
In my experience… girls “hit and run” a lot. We do the “r-selected” pickup. We fast seduce. We do, in fact, sometimes fuck these girls. And sometimes they stick around… but very often they are “one and done.” They fuck… and then “ghost” (as the kids say). I’m curious about that.
I know the prevailing
myth wisdom is that men “pump and dump.” I am sure that happens a lot, but that is not what I see. I know almost no men that tell me stories like that. And I am talking about guys in the community that I care enough about to be in regular contact with (which is not everyone). Those guys, would often like to see the girl again, post sex. And often, the girls disappear (for a very wide range of reasons). Not always so… but often.
Maybe nothing can be done about that… but… I am curious enough to wonder about it.
Many men that are working through a decent volume of women, would like to see (some of) the girl they fuck more than that once. I think this is more true of men than the culture can appreciate it. It is true of me.
My QUESTION today is this:
If you want to MAXIMIZE SEX.. and everything that comes with it… does FAST SEDUCTION get us there? Is that just “fool’s mate,” as our friend in the Purple Hat would say? Or is a DATE MODEL the way to go for maximum sexual time with women? Can that be done without looking too “K” and chodish?
I don’t think the answer is obvious. And as I have more experience, I have more questions.
Even if you only want one night stands (ONSs), I’m not sure FAST SEDUCTION is the best route to maximize that goal. Fast sex is the best way to have… fast sex. It might be a losing strategy if you want more sex in general, or if fast sex is not required by the circumstance.
Or… maybe it is the best way to get everything we want? I really don’t know. I’m exploring all this.
Here is more from Julien on that:
“Fuck her as soon as possible. That is the best way to get a girlfriend.”
— RSD Julien
Let’s take “girlfriend” out of this… and just say “recurring sex.”
Here Julian is saying fast sex is the best way to get LTRs. And we can assume Julien would say that ONS and fast sex also go hand in hand. So it sounds to me like Julien thinks that fast sex is the hammer for any sexual nail you put in front of him. And he is advising us to do the same.
And he specifically makes fun of the idea to “take her out on dates.” And I think he is mostly trying to shoot down the Disney style approach to women (which is fair). We know “movie and dinner” isn’t the best path for ONSs or LTRs… it’s the path to beta-orbiter hell. He is right about that, and I’m not trying to present his thoughts out of context.
But… the DATE MODEL idea is central to this post. Not chodish “dates,” as in the AFC sense. But assume we’re talking about relatively experienced seducers, running pretty good dates. If you don’t fuck her right away… if you take her on 2+ dates of some kind… is that going to help or hurt your plan to maximize sex. Will it help or hurt getting your notch and ALSO toward a goal of seeing her again?
“If I see a girl, and I want her to be my girlfriend, I go as fast as I can to… sex. That is the best way.”
— RSD Julien
Okay. That is what Julien thinks (as of the “Pimp Game” product).
There is another quote by Lance Mason (Pickup101) that recommends the same strategy. Lance argues (I am paraphrasing) that you fast-sex a girl you really like, because that “GIVES HER AN EXPERIENCE” most men cannot give her. And that is how she KNOWS you’re the right guy. Fast sex will get you a late night hookup as the bars are closing. And it is ALSO the “romantic” and “legendary” way to start a relationship (if that’s what you want).
Lance Mason is the man. I wish I had his original quote for this piece, but I couldn’t find it. I used Julien’s quote instead… but Julien’s reasoning is less sound, in my evaluation.
“Once a girl decides to fuck you, what is she basically acknowledging? ‘This guy is naturally attractive. He is sex-worthy. He is the alpha guy. This guy is the shit.'”
— RSD Julien
This is the same rationale “sneaky Tom” used in his textbook that was a red flag to me. It really stood out in my mind as one of the weakest things in his beginner book. And I lost respect for him for including it.
I think Tom said that, because (despite the fact that he DOES have a lot of his own experience to point to), Tom mostly just steals and repeats things other guys have said. I don’t trust Julien on this topic… nor any of the parrots that have this kind of rationale, because my own experience tells me this is not true.
My own experience tells me that girls (very often) do not think like that.
Here is another guy giving us a report from a recent trip of his:
“I have only gotten 1 daygame lay (Korean-student 23yo, D1) who did not see me again.”
— Smirking Soldier
There ^ is very real example from another daygamer. This isn’t only me and I’m not making this up.
There are a million reasons why a girl would fuck you and never see you again. But this “instant transformation” from quick-sex to girlfriend is a community falsehood these guys are repeating. It can happen. We all know examples… but there is no correlation here, as I see it.
“‘I am risking having a kid, and I’m okay with that.’ Biologically, that is what she is feeling. It’s a huge form of investment. And once she does that, making her your girlfriend is a fucking joke…. assuming you’ve structured the interaction correctly.”
“Ultimately, transition sex to girlfriend is easy as shit.”
— RSD Julien
I call bullshit. And Julien puts in that “get out of jail free card” there when he says, “assuming you’ve structured the interaction correctly.” Yes… some guys, that are doing everything at a very advanced level can have BOTH fast sex and predictably get the girls gagging for more. Some guys. But for most guys, and I mean guys with some skill (I’m not talking about beginners here, I’m talking intermediate+), fast sex could very well lead to more girls disappearing on you.
Maybe not as a percentage, but certainly in terms of total numbers. And there is no way I believe that fast sex improves the rate at which you keep girls around. I’m not even sure it the best way to accumulate notches.
I’m not saying fast-sex specifically scares girls away (although that is possible too). What I am saying is fast sex won’t lead to “a connection” or even “long term desire,” in part… because if you’re fucking a lot of girls, and doing it quickly, you’re not screening them that well, and they are not screening you that well… it’s an “adventure” not a “connection.” And our adventures don’t always mix well with our everyday lives. Players, and girls, will do “one and done” under these circumstances. That is one reason among many-many… that fast sex is not a formula for recurring revenue… or even for more ONSs, as I see it.
Stop for a second… and look at your own hookups. For guys with a relatively high laycount… what do you see in your own life? Not anecdotes… but patterns. When you have successfully fucked a girl via fast seduction… was she all over you the next day? How often? How many never talked to you again in any real way?
I rarely have sex that involves alcohol these day (because I have some weird radar where I find girls that don’t drink). Even my fast seductions are mostly sober… so it’s not sobering up that makes them less “super into me” the next day. Girls disappear on me quite often. I fuck a girl quickly… we exchange maybe a text or two after that… and then, I never hear from her again.
You can argue that is just me. And you’re right, some of the time. But again, the “fast sex is the best way to get a GF” is presented as the “truth” by many guys. I do not think I am below average seducer. And I am not “below average” in bed. I think I am better than average in terms of post-sex comfort. And yet…
Girls hit and run. To me it’s totally normal. I’m not pissed off about it, I’m just curious. I bet lots of guys see this. I know many of my wings have had experiences like this.
“What is the backwards rationalization going to do: She is like, ‘oh my god, I fucked this guy this guy so fast.’ What does society say? If you fuck a guy, that means you love him. If you don’t love the person who you fuck, that means you are a slut. And then she’ll rationalize, ‘this guy was awesome.’ ‘And if I fucked him, and I followed my emotions in the moment, that means there that you know what?… there was something special in the air. It was magic. He is the man.'”
“She will backwards rationalize and ultimately fall in love with you, because you fucked her, as soon as possible.”
— RSD Julien
Doesn’t that sound retarded?
I don’t buy it. I don’t really buy this usage of “backwards rationalization” at all. Sometimes, maybe. This theory sounds like “autistic male thinking” to me. Like men that don’t understand women… coming up with clunky explanations for things they claim happen often… which maybe rarely happen at all.
I’m not sure about all this… just kicking it around here. There is a lot going on.
So now, let’s look at another POV I like better. This guy is using the same approach in terms of FAST SEDUCTION, but is making a totally different point. I like his line of thought much more than what Julien has to say.
Steve “El Topo” Mayeda is a guy I know from the first wave of modern pickup. I’ve heard him talk about game many times. I don’t remember where I heard him first… but he played a major role in The21Convention for a while.
As I have gotten older, I bounce off of some of these guys in my “hippy” life. I am one or two degrees of separation from some of these men, and we end up side by side in the comments on Facebook sometimes. In fact, I ran into an excellent talk by Steve, because I know one of the other speakers in that talk. This isn’t typical “pickup talk,” but it is an excellent conversation. Keith Paolino’s comments in that talk are also fantastic (I have a half written post about them).
But here is the part I liked the best:
Q: What are the keys to being successful on a date and also as a lover with a woman?
This ^ was a question to that panel from an audience member. And here is Steve’s response:
“Get laid as quick as possible.”
— Steve Mayeda
See. There it is again.
RSD Julien thinks it’s about proving to her that you’re the man, via “backwards rationalization.” And Lance Mason thinks it’s about how to create a unique and epic “first impression” as the foundation for an epic relationship. And Steve has his own reasons for advocating fast sex:
“Look, everybody like laughs, it pisses people off… and they may not understand why I’m sayin’…
“But, if you actually start dating somebody, and are on a date, and you think that you guys are honest with each other and haven’t had sex… that is the biggest lie you could ever believe.
“‘In the absence of god, woman is the most spiritual thing,’ or whatever… so, I don’t always think that, but I have THOUGHT that when I am having sex, or having GOOD sex, and THEN I can see the full potential of her.”
— Steve Mayeda
“I can see the full potential of her,” he says. This is red-hot “seducer” stuff for me. Steve is glorious here. Read past the “spiritual” line (if you need to), but Steve is saying something very cool.
This isn’t about some of the bullshit and “birdsong” we do to lure and lay women. This is about our own sense of truly “penetrating” girls. Fucking their physical holes (yes to that), but fucking deeper into them. “Fucking them open to God,” as Deida would say. As Steve says, “I don’t always think that, but I have THOUGHT that when I am having sex, or having GOOD sex, and THEN I can see the full potential of her.”
That is rad.
And that can happen with sex that comes after many dates… I’m sure. But he is talking about a level of intimacy and “honesty” that is missing until you get naked, as you tear away the politeness and artifice, as you “merge” together… even if all that is gone when the lights come back on, it is worth it when we find that space.
I warned you this was a bit hippy. But reach back into you mind right now… think of those times when a “door opened” as you hooked up with a girl. I can feel that. That is real for me.
And back to our goal:
If we want to maximize sex in our lives… would Steve’s suggestion get us closer to that goal? If we aim to “get laid as quick as possible,” quickly dipping into the pool of intimacy that can sometimes be on the other side of sex… would running our seductions with that in mind help us get more notches and/or more overall sexual experiences?
It’s yet another suggestion to fuck ASAP, from a man that has been around the block a time or two.
“And then the other thing, too… when I just start applying that — and not really get into any of this esoteric, awesome, philosophical stuff — and I was like, ‘I just want to get laid, man,’ and then you go, ‘I’m going to do this,’ and I go for it, and I get laid… without any of that beautiful hippy stuff around it… the crazy thing is then she is a lot more honest with me and I’m a lot more honest with her.”
— Steve Mayeda
This is brilliant, rare insight here. I have never heard another man say that. Props to Steve for articulating something ephemeral in those lines. Beautiful.
I have known since I was a teenager, that sex changes “the level of conversation” with a girl. The things I can say/ask BEFORE I have hooked up with a girl, are different than what I can say/ask AFTER I have made-out or fucked.
Like the very minute after sex… we can immediately share at a different level. I have intentionally saved questions for “after the make out” (I did this even when I was AFC). I have a girl in mind right now, and something I want to talk to her about… but I have to wait until I fuck her to say it. I can think of three examples, right now, where that sense of “what ’til we fuck” feels true to me.
There is a breakthrough of truth that is available after there is a breakthrough of fluids and skin. Yeah.
Partly because she physically relaxes. And I relax. But also because then she can be “a little bit” emotionally honest with you. Surrender isn’t always about “conquest.” Sometimes it’s about making her truly available to you. And sometimes… that is completely about your skill as a seducer. Sometimes a little fast sex helps you get there.
Here is a yet another angle:
“When you’re interacting with a woman you’re never stationary… every decision you make and every minute that elapses when you’re spending time with a woman is either bringing you closer to sex, or father away. If you’re not moving the interaction towards sex, then it’s probably moving away from it… and she’s putting you in a different category.”
He is right. Time often works against us… and that could be another argument for fast sex.
For instance, you can KISS A GIRL FOR THE FIRST TIME on the first date. Of course. And on the second, sure. And maybe on the third (for most guys, I bet that’s the most common time). But on the fourth? Maybe not.
Per Janka’s quote, now you’re “in a different category.” And even if she is still willing to date you by the fifth date… if you haven’t kissed her by then, you are likely in the category of guys that will never be able to kiss her. You signaled major “Bottom Guy” status… and cool girls don’t kiss bottom guy.
“If you’re indecisive, what happens is, the girl chooses. And she puts you in a category. If you become a category of guy… you have a very hard time migrating to another category, because you didn’t make a bold move in the beginning, and she put you a category. If you’re not bold, and make a decision, she’s going to choose.”
Sometimes… you want to get a girl over the threshold, so it “isn’t a thing.” You move through sex quickly. You get honesty. You get what is “available” after that physical-emotional honesty opens a door between you and her.
There… is another case for fast sex. “Beat the buzzer” thinking, as it applies to seduction.
If you’re working on your game, you’ll go through many stages of skills and understanding of yourself, the girls, and the marketplace. And your tactics and goals might change as you grow… your mindset is not stationary.
Rivelino used this phrase on his blog recently:
“Beta with courage”
I like that.
So maybe we start out as betas, many of us do. And we learn game, and we become “betas with courage.” That means, we start to “go for it.” We’re not alpha/sigma yet, but at least we are taking responsibility for our own lives.
I think beginners confuse “going for it” with being “alpha.” I know I did. This is about over-escalating in an uncalibrated way. This is what I was looking at in my post about the girl I fucked last month in Tokyo… was I escalating like Top Guy? Or like a “paper alpha?”
And this is what the Janka/LMR piece was all about… a lot of that was about not having enough experience to know how “hard to push,” or that “pushing” isn’t at all what Top Guy is doing when he escalates.
As we take our first steps as men of game, we often won’t make moves on girls at all. Common problem for new guys (even if they are grown men when they find game). We won’t ask girls out. And we won’t escalate once we do.
As we get the courage to move ourselves forward, maybe we jump into the AFC “boyfriend model,” we run the DATE MODEL, because we think it’s required, because we know no other way.
We’re not quite redpilled, at least not in practice, so we become “faster, more prolific AFCs.” Same misunderstandings of the SMP, but we do more of it… with more girls. And that’s progress at some level… it is better than our former, inactive days.
Then we become “betas with courage,” as Riv might say. And fling masculinity against the wall, and call that “being a man.” We are children, playing at being men. But it’s also progress, of a sort.
I have been that child. I still am, at some level.
I don’t think it’s “childish” to run fast sex. That’s not my point. But thinking “fast-sex = “being a man”… isn’t being a man. That’s a childish point of view.
I am trying to grow out of that stage of “sexual childishness.” That’s why I am looking at this the way I am. I want to be more sophisticated. So I am exploring this snake, poking it with a stick, to try to understand it better.
As recovering AFCs learn game, maybe they over use fast-sex. Maybe they avoid the date model, because they think that is for chumps. And maybe we have over-corrected there? I don’t think I have been an “AFC” in a long time… but I am looking at my mindsets and what I may have misinterpreted as I have tried to learn game.
Maybe there is some utility in the date model after all? Not the way I used to do it… in a compulsive, retarded RomCom kind of way. But what if proper seducers could intentionally embrace dating as a means to tearing up more skirt? What if that was the better method, once you know what you were doing?
Here’s another POV.
“I had a student say to me…”
“[Student talking] ‘I’m on a Eurojaunt, I need your advice…'”
“Describe the set.”
“[Student talking] “It was 3 PM in the afternoon. I spoke to this [girl]. Bounced her to a cafe. Bounced her home. Got my dick out. Tried to fuck her after an hour. She left. Now she doesn’t return my call. Where am I going wrong?”
“You might have moved a bit too fast there. Middle of the afternoon. No alcohol. Getting your dick out within an hour of some girl just on her way home.”
— Krauser, from the Street Attraction interview
As he says that ^ last line… he has a great smile on his face. Like a lion watching his cub flail around as he learns how to hunt.
But here we have Krauser offering us a path back to the utility of the DATE MODEL. He is pointing out some of the foolishness in trying to close too soon.
And I see myself in that student. Trying to be “like Krauser.” Thinking fast-sex is the thing to do. My willingness to “burn it down” (as Sundance might say) as I try to fuck the girl ASAP.
And I think that is a normal, but a “caveman” interpretation of a larger “truth.” For beginners, and even intermediate guys like me… “we don’t know what we don’t know.” And we hear stories and we try to be “that thing.” And we lack subtlety… like most beginners do.
“There are some girls you can fuck that quick. But those are the highlights. That’s not the normal amount of game.”
Wow. I actually feel relief when I hear a man like Krauser say this. That it is not always “low skill” to not fuck on the first day I meet a girl (or on the first date). That it might actually be foolish to aim toward that when that goal is out of context.
And as we can see… there are plenty of voices that say we SHOULD be fucking girls the first time we get them out. And I’m not afraid to do that. I want to do that, much of the time. But is that the best way to maximize the sex in my life??
I’ll jump in with a personal story from today…
I was on the street. I haven’t been laid in three weeks, even though I have dated several girls, and had three in my apartment (not including the girl I did fuck). I’ve been hitting daygame extremely hard. I’ve talked to over 150 girls in the last week. I talked to 37 girls today. I am taking four to nine leads per day this week. I have had many, many dates in the last few days (idate and regular dates)… and yet… no pussy.
Daygame Gods… cruel, cruel heartless bastards sometimes.
For now, assume that I am “very warmed up” and that I am “pushing myself” forward into what is possible for me. I am a horny and dangerous daygamer. And I’m actually having a ton of fun with the girls right now… really excited to be going out every day. I cannot wait for tomorrow.
So today… IOI from a conservative girl. I stop her. She is surprised and uncertain. We chat briefly. I get her to relax and take the stop. I move closer. I give her the eyes. I ask why she is in the neighborhood… what she is doing now? She says she is looking for a cafe. I offer to take her to one… she is a little shocked at how fast I am moving, but she agrees.
Instant date. We sat. We talked. We drank milky tea.
And… I started to give her sexual SOIs… saying that she is very feminine. And that I liked her lips. I held her hand. She was very compliant, even as I introduced sex. And I told her I want to kiss her.
Since I don’t want to burn a whole prime hour of daygame time on an idate-to-nowhere, I push it forward. I mention dinner… neither of us are that hungry… so…
I offer to take her to my place. For tea, I say. I tell her I’ll kiss her, of course. And then… later… I’ll take her for dinner.
That was my offer. This was all totally smooth and natural for me. Felt great. This was fast seduction. You may see a million mistakes in that… but I was confident and congruent. And she had a great experience.
And she fucking really considered it.
It was on in that moment. And my cock was at half-chub… which rarely happens to me unless I’m in the process of making out and having sex. And I could see the “hamster” in her mind spinning… she is a conservative girl… she doesn’t do this… but she was thinking about it… It was glorious.
But she said “no.” She said, “I can’t…” She was in a little bit of pain at that moment. I enjoyed the whole thing.
I took her LINE contact, and told her I would let her go… but that I would make that offer again (via the messaging app) after I left. That would give her time and space to think about it. She could have a few minutes to herself, and accept then… if she was into it.
I made the offer again via LINE, and she didn’t take it then either. She thanked me for a wonderful time.
So you can see (that as of today), I haven’t abandoned fast sex as a strategy. That is the third time this week I have tried that. It’s fun to try. I am learning and getting comfortable in that area. I am not morally opposed to fast sex… not at all.
I can do this stuff… or at least prove I can stomp on the gas pedal.
But would intentionally re-orienting toward the date model be a better route to more sex? Maybe I could have fucked this girl on the next date? And maybe now… she’ll never see me again, as I was such a cad about it on the idate?
Back to Krauser…
“Clearly she must have liked him, or she wouldn’t have come back to his place after an hour.”
“That girl might have taken four dates to fuck. Maybe getting his dick out should have waited until the third date, y’ know.”
“But because he had it in his mind: ‘I’m gonna get a same day lay, I’m gonna do the model, fast escalation is best escalation, it’s a better set if I fuck her in one hour than two hours…'”
This is a great story. And Krauser tells it in an awesome way. I have been exactly like that guy in that story. I didn’t get my dick out in the cafe today… but I was fucking going for it. And perhaps, in a way that is self-defeating.
I am beginning to wonder… how many girls have I lost because I was trying to run fast-sex as “the only option.” That I thought it was the “powerful” thing to do. Or that it was “the experience girls want.”
Not always so.
“It misses the point that you’re trying to seduce the women. And sometimes the women give you the timetable. You can’t impose your timetable on them.”
He’s right. Krauser is not a pussy. He is not afraid to fuck girls fast. But it is not always in the cards… even when she likes you. Maybe she needs a date or two?
Sometime… hesitating means you show you are Bottom Guy. And sometimes, logistics are such, you have to get it done… as the window of her physical availability is brief (if she is tourist, for example).
And other times… you just blow yourself out by being an uncalibrated horny guy… a slave to “the model” of fast sex.
And you might get less sex overall… by going for fast sex too often.
Krauser tells a story in Adventure Sex where he dates a girl like six times.. and never fucks her. He liked her. He tried to fuck her, but it wasn’t happening. To quote him from above:
“You can’t impose your timetable on them.”
This is where I am particularly focused right now. I think I have been imposing my timetable on these girls. I think I have been a blind slave to the model. And I think some of that is “pushing against resistance.” I want to stop doing that.
With the girl on the idate… I didn’t push against resistance at all. I just got the car up on two wheels. She knew it was exciting. But I never made her hit the brake. She didn’t agree to “go faster,”… but I didn’t make her need to get out of the car, either.
She is texting me. Maybe I’ll get her out again.
One more time, I come back to this quote:
"What I'm saying is, you can press, but she can pace it. She can say, 'yes, I'm interested, but not right now.' Often beautiful girls are very good at pacing. They'll pace you. They'll let you push, but they'll say 'I need more time, I need more time.'"
— Nash (@DaysOfGame_com) January 7, 2018
Here ^ I am quoting Paul Janka again.
I like it. And I want to add a big dose of Yohami’s “don’t push against resistance” to Janka’s framework. I think we “push it,” meaning we move fast. But not so fast that she has to use the brake.
I like the idea that we “move things forward,” and we do that pretty quickly. That doesn’t mean we need to fuck her on the first date… but it does mean we basically try to do exactly that. So that is still the plan.
I think that Julien is probably insanely good with girls at many levels… but he has the worst advice in this review. And the other guys that repeat that “boy logic” are giving you a dumbass interpretation of what is going on here. “Backwards rationalization” and “fast sex makes her want to be your girlfriend” is keyboard jocky shit… they’ve got the cart before the horse.
But Lance is right that fast sex gives her a rare experience. It shows that you, as the player, are an experienced man. It gives her a type of thrill that an overly-careful man cannot offer. If you do it well and with some style, she knows she’s with a man of the world. Top Guy doesn’t have to fuck her on the first date, but he probably shows her he can.
And Steve is right that fast sex can open doors for us. If fast sex is in the cards, in many ways it “can” help you find some planes of honesty quickly… and that honesty can then spin the relationship up into something magical, that might not happen otherwise.
And Janka is right that fast sex keeps you in the category of “sex-worthy,” and maybe more importantly keeps you OUT of the “Bottom Guy” category.
We’ll let Janka takes us home with another great quote.
“Relationships can often come if the girl resists for three or four dates.”
Here he is saying almost the opposite of what Julien is saying. And I think he is right. I think it makes sense that LTRs (and recurring sex) come more often when the girl paces us for 2+ dates. That makes sense to me.
We know Paul would “push” things forward. And he says above that she will “pace us.” And here he seems to be admiring the girls for pacing us. Even if I would prefer to fuck her on the first date (and I know Janka would), I think Paul is right on here.
“The reason why women do that, is that women with high self-esteem, they want to showcase their personality. They want to say, ‘Here, listen, don’t just go for the hole. I have a whole life I want to show you, I’m a great person.’ Because the guy gets very distracted. So they stop it, stop it, and they get to showcase themselves, over three nights, for example, until the guy says ‘Wow, this is a quality person I want to spend time with.’ And then they’ll give sex up, once they’ve shown you who they are. A lot of girls that give it up quickly, they don’t have a chance to show you how great they are. And after a guy has sex… he thinks, ‘Ahh, I’m not that interested.'”
This is great. That is a great analysis. This kind of stuff is how I know Janka is much more than just some dude running “good looking guy game.” He is so smart and articulate in lines like this… there is so much to talk about there… but this post is long enough.
Evangelist daygame at it's finest! Do you have a certain date model, Nash? (aka 2 date model/ 3 date model etc)
— hunter ?? (@MATURE5MAN) February 9, 2018
Here Hunter is asking me about my date model? Well… I don’t have a set “generic” plan. I have a plan for each date, but not a “one size fits all” plan that I apply to every girl.
I want to “give her more of what she wants, and less of what she doesn’t want.” And if you’re following the theme of this post… I see a lot of utility in “fuck her as fast as you can”… and yet… I can see how I have pushed it too far. I know I have lost some girls for going too fast.
And that was likely actually decided, NOT in my “pre game” plan… but in the micro-moments when I was too focused on my plan (or my stats), and not focused enough about where she was in terms of her level of arousal.
UHHHHH!!! Even as I sit here now and write this… I am thinking… even if she is very aroused… and you COULD fuck her… even if she has not chosen to “pace you” toward another date before sex… there might still be some reason to make her wait for another day. I am sure that is true sometimes.
But I think my answer is… I should pace myself to her arousal… I should focus on her arousal… not on fucking her or not… and when she is aroused enough to be fucked… give that sweet girl a proper fucking. If that happens on one date… great.
And if I CAN’T get her to that level of arousal on one date… because she needs more comfort… more time… because she wants the chance to “showcase her personality”… then we wait for another date.
That is real. It takes tremendous calibration and experience to read all that… to get the timing right… but I think that is the answer.
We are men. That means we drive the car.
And we’re not ordinary men… we are extraordinary. And sometimes we drive really fucking fast. And we are comfortable at that speed.
But we’re calibrated and attuned, as well. And that means, “we drive the car in such a way she never has to use the brake” (© Yohami).
That doesn’t mean she never “holds on for dear life.” It’s exciting to be on a ride with us. And she might say, “Slow down! Slow down!”… but if we’re doing it right, she is usually laughing when she says that. These are soft “no’s.” That’s normal. And she is loving it. She is not trying to hit the brakes. She is not trying to get out of the car.
And she may make us take her home… instead of back to our place. She may do that… three or four times.
We may get frustrated. Maybe take a different girl, as that one isn’t adventurous enough. That’s fair… this is about us, about what we want. Depending on what you want, and how “quality” she feels to you… she might be a “time waster.” Time wasters are real. I agree with that too. Moving on from a girl that is stuck in the slow lane… that might be best for everyone.
Or maybe you love it. Maybe you love watching how much she can take. And watching the pink rise in her cheeks when we give her a thrill. Watching her edge up on what is “too much,” without taking her over that line into a bad experience.
And sometimes… we get to take her straight home. She’s sold. She is ready for the final act. And we rip into each other’s naked honesty and fuck and and see God and then have ice cream on the couch afterwards. And it’s magical. And 20 years later she tell the kids, “yeah, your dad used to take me for rides in this car.” And she winks at you while she says it.
And sometimes… we take her on a few rides first. We allow her a timetable that is best for her… and keeps her from needing to get away from us… that keeps her “safe enough” that she’s willing to get back in the car each time.
And over those rides… we get to know her. And some of her deeper qualities come out. As do ours. And that becomes a different, but legitimate path to something hot and meaningful.
For my part… the juice for me right now is in the calibration. I want to watch her as I increase the sexual heat in the air between us… and see how she takes it. I’m going to need a lot more experience before I am an expert. Which is cool… I love the practice of this art.
And… I happen to know a pretty cool way to meet lots of girls.