I Fired a Girl | Red Flags, Female Encroachment
I think I am kicking a girl out of my harem. She’s fired. I’m not 100% sure I’ll stick to my decision, but I think that’s what I’m doing. This is all new for me.
I have three girls on rotation right now: The Siren (one of my favorite girls of all time), Miss Thick (who is a fantastic lover, getting better all the time) and then Good Smell. Other girls are (ah-hem) coming and going, but these three have been consistent.
Good Smell was a relatively recent addition to the current “girl tornado” conditions. Fucked her for the first time in May, I’ve fucked her maybe five times. She was becoming a regular.
She is 33, and that makes her 11 years younger than me, and six years older than any other girl that has my attention. She has been cute. And a pretty good lay. She has been fun to date, and I have enjoyed fucking her, and also sleeping next to her in my bed. She’s not super passionate about the sex, but has seemed very into me. Sometimes more into me after sex than during.
I had no plans to cut her off… In fact, I have never cut off a daygame girl before. I haven’t had to. They seem to “expire” in one way or another.
My first daygame lay moved to NYC after a few weeks (and a bit of deception). My 2nd lay mostly rejected me… I’m not 100% certain, but I stopped trying. The Filipina Mom has told me she wants to see me, but never follows through (dating moms is impossible, and not exactly my goal). All the J-girls stayed in Japan. Miss Xi’an wasn’t my favorite, but she’s off/on with messaging, so that one is going nowhere. The last Korean girl disappeared back to Korea.
I have never had to… never wanted to… get rid of a daygame girl before.
It’s a strange feeling.
When I was a normal “boyfriend type,” I dismissed a lot of girls. It was classic serial monogamy for me back then. For long-term relationships, or short term flings, I did almost all the breaking up. “Looping off heads” is what Natural and I call it. Not fun, but necessary.
Usually the girl would try to raise the stakes — to encroach on my territory, you might say. A mix of being less agreeable, less sexual, and more demanding. That is a fucking retarded plan for a girl to roll-out, but I’ve seen it over and over.
After a while, I would have enough, and I’d break us up. Her complaints… my action. She’d start the fight… I’d finish it. This has happened to me many times. It’s why I don’t want a girlfriend right now. Not at all. Not one bit.
The girls often seemed surprised as I’d cut them off. They were running the relationship into the ground like a suicide bomber into a crowded plaza. And yet they seemed shocked I didn’t want to help continue that kind of mindless slaughter. Over and over I’ve seen them shocked (and even begging to come back) as I ended things.
I’ve had many LTRs, lived with four separate girls, etc., and being a player makes sense to me in a way that the nature of long-term relationships never did.
I’ll own up to the idea that I wasn’t managing those relationships as well as I could. Some man could have given both himself and the girl a better experience. Some man would train the girl better, have more iron-clad boundaries. But for me it was not working (not in the end). I may not have always known how to keep the magic going… But at least I knew when to get off the ride.
It is part of my story now that most girls will ruin a relationship, given enough time. I think that is really in a woman’s nature.
It’s all about them “encroaching” on you until you’re broken or you fight back. They will escalate their demands in such a way that most men will either cave in to her demands (the guy gives up his power and position) or he bails (escapes a sinking ship).
Or (more likely), he gives in to her demands and she dumps him… dumps him for being weak, for not knowing how to handle her, for not being “better than her.”
Or keeps him around, and treats him with contempt ever after. A co-dependent downward spiral of misery. Welcome to female leadership. And then she fucks some cool guy on the sly while continuing to extract a tax from him. Sad, but common. Sometimes the guy she is fucking on the side… is me.
Cynical. But that’s what I see.
But as I’ve worked my way out of that kind of k-selected hell, I don’t have to deal with that kind of bullshit much. It’s nice. I still have “work” with the girls in my life, more so as they get established in “the hareem.” But nothing like the bullshit I remember from monogamy.
A lot of daygame is about embracing how life is in flux, it pumps and dumps “comes and goes.” So do the girls. Whereas the average guy has to compromise or suck it up, the daygamer can just hit the streets. And go back to the early “courtship” stage with each new girl. Relive the “best days,” again and again.
The plurality of girls in Daygame is a bit like Groundhogs Day, but with a twist: You wake up every day with the same goal… but your skills keep getting better and “her” face keeps changing. The day’s the same, the girl is not. It’s awesome.
So Good Smell, is a “good” girl. I like her. We’ve been delicious and tender with each other. But there have been a few things that are signals to me to let her go, to cut her off, to move on myself.
The first moment when things started to feel “off” was complicated for me…
She had spent the night and it was a good time. I told her I had a busy morning that day, that I was getting ready to leave for a trip that afternoon… She sort of lingered, and it felt deliberate. I didn’t like it.
And I’m not in this to give myself “bad experiences.” That’s the exact opposite of the goal, here.
Most girls in my life would have said something like, “I know you have a big trip, I’ll let you pack…” And given me one last kiss, and then ran off. But Good Smell was kind of dragging her feet… That’s what it felt like. It was a type of red flag.
That day I was trying to find the balance between giving her the kind of quality attention I want to give girls… And hurrying her along so I could get back to my mission… and she seemed to have no respect for my time.
And then, that same day… she had this plastic bag with two little bottles of some kind of “girl product” in it. She had it on my counter. She asked if she could leave it at my place… And she had a funny look on her face as she said it. I’m not 100% sure what that look meant.
I said yes… at first. I took it, and started to go put it someplace, and then changed my mind. I walked back to her, handed it to her, told her it would be better if she brought it with her when she came over.
That was my mistake… Changing my mind. I should have rejected it, laughed it off, immediately. Changing my mind was the right move, but it should have been my initial response.
The deal with that is this: If I’m going to have a lot of girls over, I don’t want to keep track of their stuff. I don’t want hide it. I don’t want to talk about with the next girl. It’s all “junk” in my life that doesn’t serve what I’m trying to do. And what’s more… it’s encroachment. It’s her “taking.”
It’s her pissing on the tree of my life. In some ways… no different than giving me a hickie.
It was time for lunch, so I took her for a sandwich… and I was thinking about the scene in my kitchen when I handed her junk back to her… and right when I was thinking about it, she brought it up, right at the sandwich counter:
“Why did you change your mind?” I just repeated my declaration, “It’s better if you just bring it when you come over.” And I changed the subject.
That’s one “strike.”
The next strike came last week. She was in the city and we were messaging. I was horny and she was done with school, so we met up. She was hungry, so we got her some food. Had some tea. Went back to my place… and I fucked her.
And I told her I had 6 PM call. We showered, post sex, and the time came for my call… and she’s dragging her feet. I had been telling her, “I’m going to kick you out,” but I hadn’t said “get out.” It was like she was exploiting that. I could have been more explicit, definitely… but she was being obtuse. She was getting “take-y.” As my call comes up, I say, “I have to take that call,” and she says, “I’ll just wait in the other room.”
Grrrr. I had to start the call, and didn’t want a long talk at that moment. I could have been stronger. Yes. And I also know no other girl in my life does this kind of thing. It’s not cute. She knows it.
She is encroaching. She is taking territory. And testing me. Not cool. I don’t like it. This is the kind of shit that is like termites in the timbers of a relationship. Another red flag.
Post call, I check on her, we chat, and I call a car for her. I put her in the car and she’s gone. Sex was good, I wasn’t too concerned about the “encroachment,” and it was 8 PM and I had my life to myself again.
Meanwhile I have been hustling this new girl… Miss Tease. Ummm, Miss Tease. And she was maybe going to come into the city on Sunday, but I got a firm “no” on Friday afternoon. Too bad. So as the “no” is certain (she was my first choice), I ping Good Smell to see if she is free.
For a girl in my rotation, I want to see her once every 7-10 days. That gives me enough time to entertain other girls (and friends and events, etc.), but not so much time that a relationship gets stale or stretched too thin. That’s my theory. I did this with the Original Siren for almost two years (10 years ago), and with the Tokyo Queen for a year (my last LTR), and the current Siren and Miss Thick are in this pattern. It works.
I thought I could drop Good Smell in on Sunday, and then I’d have 7-10 days to work other girls before I needed to make room for her again. I like her, but I’m trying to get a lot done with girls right now. I pinged her, she had no plans.
NASH: Come over. Let’s play that night.
I was out on the street running game at the time. I wasn’t that into the date as I texted her, but I knew I’d be ready for sex by Sunday. Maybe she could feel the lack of priority in my tone?
So, that night (still Friday), I’m out with Siren. It’s a wild, emotional, but great date. At dinner, I go off to the bathroom to cycle through my messages (including with Miss Tease), and I have a response from Good Smell:
GOOD SMELL: Okkay
GOOD SMELL: But what about if we spending the day together too
GOOD SMELL: Doing some interesting thing
GOOD SMELL: Like as our second time
GOOD SMELL: I just want to do some more like couple things
GOOD SMELL: Not just spending the night
GOOD SMELL: Sorry for being such straight :)
I can read this now, and see her comments as sweet. As just wanting more time with me. That’s cool. I like that.
But that’s not my only read on this girl. At the time, I saw this as type of negotiation for sex. Like I take her on a big date, she fucks me. Bullshit.
That’s not how it works. I don’t negotiate for sex. The sex itself is its own beautiful exchange. Period.
I replied saying something about how I always have a plan… and I did… but I had no enthusiasm for this girl at this point. It had gone from love to war, at least a bit. I felt like I needed to be careful with my defense… and I was considering an aggressive offense as my plan of action.
That was the third strike.
That was enough red flags for her to really stand out against all the other girls I’ve meet in daygame. She was special, and not in a good way…. she was working herself out of job. I’ve seen this before.
The truth is… I’m happy to go on more nuanced dates. I’m not just “Netflix and chill.” And I always take her out… except once, and that was when we had plans, and her day went long, so she came over at 11 PM, and that was the night before she tried leaving that stuff at my house.
I’m not trying to strictly booty call the girl (not that there’s anything wrong with that). And I felt like she had adopted that frame. I don’t trade for sex. That is fundamentally unacceptable to me. It felt pushy on her part, and insulting.
I really, really didn’t like this from her at all. I got a bit mad. It fucked up my date with Siren… or rather, my emotions got in the way of my date with Siren. Not a lot, but some.
The next day (Saturday), Siren and I had one of the most intense mornings I’ve ever had with a girl. Sex, and eating in bed, and listening to music, and talking, and singing, and dancing, and some tears… and then a little lunch in the park. Fucking amazing. The best. She is awesome.
I ran a bit more game later that afternoon… talked to the Vicar (what’s up, man!)… and took a few numbers. But the whole time, I knew I was going to take some action with Good Smell.
That night at dinner I messaged Siren. And had some great sex-talk with Miss Thick. And messaged my new leads from that day (both chatted with me). And then…
I cancelled that Sunday date with Good Smell.
I have basically never done this before. I didn’t have another option. I knew I was throwing away some perfectly good sex. I just cancelled on her. Told her I needed to get some things done. She was fine about it, but I bet, by now… she gets it.
I think I am done with her.
I also know that I get horny and that my libido can change my POV. Perhaps I’ll cave and invite her over? But I don’t think so. If I get needy for sex or time with a girl… I’ll grind the streets.
I really do have some options… both real girls in my orbit, and also the option to kick a girl out, clear out some space, and go hunt up the next prospect. I like to hunt. The daygame process needs air to breathe.
Seeing a girl once in seven days or so… means she is “1/7th” of your life. If she isn’t fucking awesome… and you have other options… you might trade all she is to reclaim 1/7th of your free time. That’s not a bad deal. I am choosing that, for now.
This is all pretty new to me. I know how to dump a cranky, stale girl. I know how to reject a girl that I’ve been dating for a few weeks, when I know it’s not working out (even though I’m fucking that girl). But this was me, proactively optimizing a girl out. A girl that was more than willing to fuck me. New.
Encroachment. They will take all they can… that is the nature of women and I’m not at all mad or bitter about that.
I will use my strength (emotional and psychological) to keep that process at bay. I will surprise girls… so they’re less stable and can’t grab at as much. I will lead girls… so they’re never dug-in and claw at my life. I will make them happy… so they’re not craving change.
But I will also execute a girl for pushing my boundaries. Figurative, “dead.” She’s gone.
I fired her.
Hmmmmm.
I have a lot to learn.
Miss Good Smell… you were an interesting lover. You’re a great girl, and I like you. But I see you taking territory… it’s not graceful, it’s piggish. It’s not feminine… it’s aggressive. That’s not what I’m after. And you’ve lost to the competition in a big way.
Three strikes… you’re out.
Back to the streets, my brothers. The world spins on it’s axis… and we have work to do. The hunt goes on.
Viva daygame.
You’re so into Girl Tornado now, well done.
“It’s not feminine… it’s aggressive.”
That’s the thing – it is feminine. All the girls in your rotation will either will either do just that, or dump you so they can find a man they can “encroach” with.
I love how you were able to see ‘that look’ in her when she attempted to leave some product at your house. Now can you go back and see her process. She took that product from her place. She put it in a plastic bag and then in her purse. She came to the date. Had sex. Then she brings it out and lands the mine, or pulls the claw, or takes the territory. So deliberate.
As deliberate as the sexy clothing they wear for the first date when you think sex is not going to happen, or you think that they ‘vagely know you want to fuck them’. When they already depilated and chose lingerie.
As deliberate as replying to your text the first time. As deliberate as giving you their number.
Probably what you don’t like about this setup is that she is taking initiative in a way that you were able to see it. Most guys wouldn’t be able to see it. Just like you (still) don’t see the very deliberate action and taking initiative behind every and all their seemingly passive choices. In this case you saw the move on plain sight and you didn’t like it. But it’s always happening.
The other three girls in your harem, and any / every other girl you ever have, will go through the same patterns of, screening, sexual seduction, hooking you up, and nesting. The encroachment is the nesting. She has to secure that nest to have babies and safe and you must be put under chains so your resources are secure. It “ruins things” as it progresses you through the funnel, but this isn’t about your or her. This is biology trying to make children.
Once I peaked alpha I saw so many girls go through that so quickly. Sometimes it started after the first bang, sometimes even before it. When girls really want something, see something value, that ‘hunt’ is activated.
In my beta days I thought the encroachment was love. Haha. I was so happy when a girl would want to form a nest. Back then I thought it was about me and her. There’s no such thing.
>> That’s the thing – it is feminine. All the girls in your rotation will either will either do just that, or dump you so they can find a man they can “encroach” with.
— Yohami
I want to argue with you… I want to say that “feminine” is attractive… but you’re right. Her behavior is feminine… it’s just not attractive.
>> I love how you were able to see ‘that look’ in her when she attempted to leave some product at your house
>> So deliberate.
Yeah. Seeing the “indirect” but deliberate stuff that women do… is eye opening. And you’re right. There is behavior like this at every stage.
>> Probably what you don’t like about this setup is that she is taking initiative in a way that you were able to see it.
>> Most guys wouldn’t be able to see it.
Yeah… it was “encroachment,” but without charm. That is her real sin, she’s not being charming while she moves to claim more territory. That’s zero incentive for me.
And as she tried to set up the big date, it wasn’t charming. If she was like, “I can’t wait to see you, I’m gonna kiss you all over…” (or whatever) and then “Hey, before dinner… can we go on a little adventure?” Or “I am really loving exploring the city… any ideas before dinner that night??”
I don’t need to her lead… that’s not my point. But if she’s negotiating… she needs to bring more to the offer. Again, the sex is an even trade, in itself. I don’t trade for sex. But I’d trade charm for more planning/dating on my part… gladly.
That would have been charm. So yeah… I didn’t like that I could see it. And I didn’t like that what I could see, wasn’t charming at all.
>> Just like you (still) don’t see the very deliberate action and taking initiative behind every and all their seemingly passive choices.
More on this on my next post… Miss Tease.
>> The encroachment is the nesting.
>> this isn’t about your or her. This is biology trying to make children.
Yeah. I get that. This is exactly what my last LTR was driving for… also with a complete lack of charm. So I broke up with her… and my life was instantly better.
>> I was so happy when a girl would want to form a nest. Back then I thought it was about me and her. There’s no such thing.
Yeah… when my sister had her first kid, I was there that week, and she was in a “bubble” with just the kid and her. It’s biology. And it manifests in her getting you to set up the safe spot, she has the baby, the baby survives… it’s not about charm, or femininity, or anything else.
Which reminds me why I love the brand of condoms I use… and the role of daygame to bring “fresh air” through my life so I don’t go down that path.
“That was my mistake… Changing my mind. I should have rejected it, laughed it off, immediately. Changing my mind was the right move, but it should have been my initial response.”
You are missing a forest for the trees. I’ve had a woman ask me to pick up some milk on the way to her place [LOL. Double LOL] and I even went to the store and put a hand on a cartoon when I figured out what the fuck was going on [this was my first].
Came to her place w/out milk and she understood everything right away. The moment I started to “explain” myself, she told me to STFU [“paraphrasing”] instead.
I love this story.
>> I even went to the store and put a hand on a cartoon when I figured out what the fuck was going on [this was my first].
And it’s not clear to me what you were thinking or what she was thinking… but I agree it’s in the same vein as this post.
My thoughts when taking the hand off of the cartoon of milk:
the bitch wants to domesticate me and see if I can be a surrogate boyfriend.
NO PASARAN!
I often ask girls to pick up things on their way to my place. I never heard a complaint.
Lurker here. I cannot agree more with Yohami. This is ordinary nesting behaviour. It is absolutely feminine, and it will always recur with every girl. Since you now know this, keep the emotion out of it, have an Immediate Action Drill that you go through when it happens. It is nothing personal, it is the drive to secure resources and commitment. Understand you are up against a biological imperative. You are territory to be marked prior to being secured. Always.
Also understand that when your feelings change and you want more commitment than serial ONS, you will have to give your very first reaction to her a great deal of thought for when she makes her move. You would be well advised to plan for your reaction for that eventuality. Don’t laugh, eventually you will burn out on plate spinning at least for a while. Know in advance what you want to do then, and in the meantime learn how to be with women in a way that is fulfilling both your needs
Yes and yes.
>> it will always recur with every girl
Well… to a point, and in terms of TIMING, I disagree.
I already have too many other girls in the model to think this is about “every girl.” And again, it was about HOW this one operates…
I hear Yohami saying something similar above… and maybe, on a long enough timetable, this is true. But this girl is into this kind of thing fast. And with no grace. So she is different.
…and that’s not considering the other girls that actually are sport fucking. No… they’re not encroaching or nest building.
That’s one of the most amazing things about this… how casual the girls can be about sex.
But… my favorites are the choice ones, and the ongoing nature of those relationships.
I like sport fucking. It’s good fun, a wonderful challenge, and makes for great stories.
But girls like Siren… are much more satisfying.
>> Since you now know this, keep the emotion out of it, have an Immediate Action Drill that you go through when it happens. It is nothing personal,
^ This is great advice. Yeah. I’m getting more experience here.
>> Also understand that when your feelings change and you want more commitment than serial ONS, you will have to give your very first reaction to her a great deal of thought for when she makes her move
This is excellent advice. I’ll have to think about this more.
Thanks, man. Great comments.
>>>”Sometimes the guy she is fucking on the side… is me.” Yeah! I want to be on the right side of the fuse as much as I can… know what I mean?
This story kind of reminds me of one of my (former) Venezuelans, whom I had to cut loose a few months ago. (Me and my friends use the [kind of] spanish word ´katanear´ for this, which would translate something like “behead with a katana”). This is a lovely girl, who is married – at least up to the point I brought us to an end, and had become a little too attached. I met her daygaming my hometown, and we spent about 8 months doing dirty deeds behind the hubbie’s back. At the peak of my daygaming I was sleeping with four girls besides her, and she knew all about it, even openly criticizing the rest of the girls in my harem, which I found tasteless and a sign of poor social intelligence. She tried to tell me that she was planning to leave the husband, since they hadn’t had sex in a long time and I simply told her that was none of my business, and that perhaps she should keep it to herself or maybe choose one of her female friends to discuss it. Whenever there was an objection to my erratic behaviour, I kindly reminded her that she was married (I can be a cruel motherfucker, I know) and that she knew what the deal was. Long story short, I decided that I didn’t want to play with her or waste her time, since that would be unfair on my part (I actually told her that when breaking up with her). And she is a gorgeous girl – she had benn a magazine model in her mid-twenties. It was just that I was – and still am – focused in my mission (whatever the hell that is, hehe). And, the truth be told, she was over thirty and didn’t have that intoxicating effect teenagers can have on a grown man.
Bottom line is: I think the ability to end relationships is a skill – a tough one to learn, at that – that every man should learn and put into practice when the situation calls for it. It teaches us to be merciless and determined, and also to deal with bad emotions, both ours and hers.
>> which I found tasteless and a sign of poor social intelligence.
Yeah, man. Exactly this. This is what I was saying in my reply to Yohami above… she wasn’t charming. It was dumb move on her part. I don’t know how into me she was… but now she has nothing. Not smart.
I’m not even thinking about her… so I assume I’ll stick to my decision. Neither of us have msg’d since I cancelled that date.
>> I think the ability to end relationships is a skill – a tough one to learn, at that – that every man should learn and put into practice when the situation calls for it. It teaches us to be merciless and determined, and also to deal with bad emotions, both ours and hers.
I agree here, 100%. I’m pretty strong in this area… and having better game is only making it easier.
Related: I have been comparing the BS the “left” is doing here in the US with the way “conservatives” talk… and one of the things about conservatives… they believe life is a series of tough choices. I like that about them.
>> At the peak of my daygaming I was sleeping with four girls besides her, and she knew all about it
This is something I’m constantly talking to folks about… I would never tell a girl about the other girls. I keep all that vague and very far away.
I am a “don’t ask, don’t tell” type of guy.
>> She tried to tell me that she was planning to leave the husband, since they hadn’t had sex in a long time and I simply told her that was none of my business, and that perhaps she should keep it to herself or maybe choose one of her female friends to discuss it
This is exactly how I feel about the whole conversation.
If I were you, I wouldn’t have told her about the other girls… nothing certain at all. As I think all that does is create drama… I don’t want drama.
So I like how you handled her trying share details… “keep it to yourself.” I would add, “this relationship is about you and I, I’m not interested in bringing other people into this discussion.”
>>> “If I were you, I wouldn’t have told her about the other girls… nothing certain at all. As I think all that does is create drama… I don’t want drama.”
I hear you… actually, nowadays I prefer to keep myself to myself. Mind, she only knew about a specific girl (my LTR at the time) and another Venezuelan I met later on. I even told her she was my “forbidden sex”, whereas my main girl was my “emotional sex” and the rest of the girls were my “sport sex”. And she knew all about my daygame as a hunting method. She played it cool at first, but eventually came some off-hand remarks, such as: “I bet you stop them all just like you stopped my on the streets that time”. To tell you the truth, I was being kind of an asshole… I sort of wanted to push her away and ironically that had the effect of her obssessing over me and chasing harder and harder. It got to the point where I was saying to myself: “Gee, I really care for this girl, she’s a sport! But I don’t really feel it with her, and she’s falling for me, HARD… So it’s time to bring things to an end before they get out of hand”.
Just like when planning a hit, the thought came to my mind: “It must be done”.
* I meant “distasteful”, not “tasteless” XD
> “Why did you change your mind?” I just repeated my declaration, “It’s better if you just bring it when you come over.” And I changed the subject.
That’s a strike indeed – against the quality of your game.
She gave you a clear opportunity to define the relationship – as you desire it – right there and then and you swallowed your answer instead of speaking the truth.
Not to beat the dead horse
but
had she asked you – again – why can’t she leave her shit at your place
you repeating yourself would be a very solid move
But
she asked something else and possibly reminded of what you considered an “error” of yours
and
as such forced a actual error on your part with a very natural follow-up of increased testing on her part
>> She gave you a clear opportunity to define the relationship – as you desire it – right there and then and you swallowed your answer instead of speaking the truth.
This is great point.
I deleted all your other comments, man. There is something about your “voice” I don’t trust… but I think you’re right on, here.
I don’t know that I would do anything different if I had to do it again… but you’re right. This was an opportunity to define the relationship. And I might have, in my response. But I see your point.
“There is something about your “voice” I don’t trust”
Good radar.
>> as such forced a actual error on your part with a very natural follow-up of increased testing on her part
I agree with this too, in part. Good analysis.
great post.
i haven’t fully read the other comments yet — only scanned them — but i get the sense that everyone is taking your lead and taking your tone and blaming her for being a typical female, trying to set up a home base in your apartment, trying to take away your freedom, etc — so fuck her, let’s kick her to the curb! go away, aggressive, encroaching female!
your whole post sounded annoyed and even angry at this girl.
and my reply is: whoa, whatever happened to AMUSED MASTERY??
now, you are at a much higher level than me, but a few years ago, i was doing something pretty good with this girl blondie, and i was calling it BABY GIRL GAME. she was my baby girl, everything she did was cute and amusing, and if she wanted my cock, she had to work for it! work for it, baby girl!
ultimately, i fucked that whole thing up, but i learned some stuff and i think it could be useful to you in the future.
#1 MAKE HER WORK FOR IT SEXUALLY
i mean, come on, we all know that the fundamental number one rule of the #redpill is, women are children, not adults. children need supervision, guidance, “rules, boundaries and limitations”, as cesar milllan says. yes, women are like dogs, they need a strong master. and when is a dog happiest? when the dog is working to please the master. you know where i am going with this, it’s where i took blondie: make her work to please you. make her work to please you *sexually*. set more and more hoops for her to jump through. kinkier and kinkier stuff. she will get so caught up — and worried — #dreadgame — about trying to please you, she won’t have time to strategize where to put her girly stuff in your bathroom. she won’t dare. eventually, knowing you and your power, you will have her sucking your cock while another girl sucks it too. yeah! don’t just cut her off, you know? push her sexual limits!
#2 LAUGH OFF THE SHIT TESTS
she tries to put her stuff in your bathroom. haha, you are adorable! trix are for kids. such a silly little girl. don’t get annoyed and change the subject. that’s not amused mastery, my man. that’s her getting under your skin. that’s her throwing a shit test bomb at you, and having it blow up in your face. you lose the shit test when you react emotionally. you gotta laugh off her little “encroachments”. you don’t have to return the bomb by shoving it in her face that you are banging other girls, but imagine the two scenarios:
SCENARIO 1
girl: nash, can i leave this girly stuff in your bathroom?
nash: no, sorry. it’s better if you just bring it with you next time. [changes the subject, clearly annoyed]
SCENARIO 2
girl: nash, can i leave this girly stuff in your bathroom?
nash: haha, you’re adorable. you know that nobody leaves their stuff here ;-) [subtle hint at alphaness]
re-reading your post, yes, you do almost get to the answer, you write: “I should have rejected it, laughed it off, immediately.” YES. laugh it off. she is adorable. amused mastery.
#3 YOU CAN STILL FIRE HER, BUT DON’T AVOID CONFLICT
i mean, one thing you are right about — everyone commenting is, i am sure — this *is* the female instinct, to look for an alpha nest. and if you don’t want an LTR, then all of these nesting attempts will be unwanted by you. so, after “three strikes” you are just gonna dump them? why avoid this conflict? learn to handle women “at their worst” like the marilyn quote haha. krauser coined an amazing term, cheerful misogyny. similar to amused mastery, but larger in scope. she is just a child. don’t take her seriously! and don’t fire her just to avoid conflict. it will come up with **every girl** at some point. you have read deida. he makes a big point of this. learn to handle this conflict. learn to stare her down, and make her obey you. make her behave. those three strikes were *your* three strikes. three times when you didn’t handle her shit tests properly. you gotta see it that way! there are no bad dogs, only bad owners.
#4 DON’T LET ALL THAT OTHER PUSSY DISTRACT YOU
yeah, you are banging two or three other girls. yeah baby! you are a stud. so yeah, sure, go ahead, fire the annoying one. but like i said above, it’s gonna happen with all the girls at some point. don’t let that other pussy stop you from learning the masculine lessons you need to learn. you have the “luxury” of having other pussy — i know it’s not a luxury because you worked really hard to get it, i know — but it’s a luxury in the sense that you are in a great spot. but don’t let that comfort keep you from getting strong and tough. don’t get soft by avoiding conflict!
okay, by this point i am repeating myself.
viva game and viva the redpill too!
Look at that – Riv and I agree on something :-) point #3 is specially on point.
Agree that #dreadgame is bs, but I get it if your main frame reference is #reassurancegame and #comfortgame.
“dread” will happen naturally if you’re self asserting and act like a man with options acts.
If you have to worry in any way about injecting dread, then it’s not happen naturally. If it’s not happening naturally, then focus on putting yourself first.
And the way to deal with dread is to provide #reassurancegame. You comfort the girl turning these bad emotions good. So reassurance has a place when your main framework is self affirmation, or, when your main game doesn’t revolve around chasing a girl, putting her on a pedestal and kissing up to her, but around putting yourself first, setting your terms and conditions and going at your pace, then at points she’ll freak out, in a good way, due to intrasexual competition, and that’s where a little reassurance or gesture or double affirmation in that she’s “the girl” at least for today will work fine.
All that to say that avoiding conflict is weak, and the worst part in the written story was the change of subject, and change of opinion.
Here’s what I’d have said with no hesitation:
– Why, your boyfriend doesn’t let you leave it at his place?
and
– Nah, you’re going to make all the other girls jealous.
And if asked if I see other girls, I say “millions”
First like exposes the framing, and makes it clear the game she’s playing is not your role. She may laugh it off. If she pushes against that she finds the next line, that’s the truth, that will hurt / in the good way. She may laugh it off or go for the kill, trying to test your bone and go deeper, there you say “millions”, or one of my favourite lines, stolen from DeAngelo
– “I’ve got 8 girlfriends”
– “You’re number 9”
So the longer she pushes, the farther she’s from the goal, the more step the hill is, the more “dread”.
But it’s not dread game. For dread game you’d start seeing a girl and telling her about how many girls you band and how she’s maybe not good enough. That should be the stick, not the carrot. The girl who will go directly to these emotions is ultimately not the girl that you want to hang around with. So this one, after experiencing these bad emotions as a result of her taking territory, may do one of three things:
1) Laugh it off, which means you’re sport fucking and is all ok, she’ll try to nest with other guy and fuck you on the side
2) Start a fight, that means you’re “the one” she designated and she’ll take no for an answer, or thinks she can outmanouvre you by escalating the conflict. Here you can win by setting the wall in the same manner as above, or by getting her out of your life. She’ll remember you forever.
3) Get hurt but take it well and work harder to please and have good times so she can climb and move from spot #9 to maybe spot #3. This is most girls, and it means the situation will repeat in a loop until eventually she’s either just sportfucking you because she got another man, or she’s invested enough she’ll fight you.
>> “dread” will happen naturally if you’re self asserting and act like a man with options acts.
I agree. The “dread” is that you got her to invest and yet you’re not chasing her… and most men would, so that is a signal in itself.
>> putting yourself first, setting your terms and conditions and going at your pace, then at points she’ll freak out, in a good way, due to intrasexual competition, and that’s where a little reassurance or gesture or double affirmation in that she’s “the girl” at least for today will work fine.
This sounds very much like what is going on with Siren and I. I mentioned she is crying in the early part of the date, two weeks in row. And I’m no panicking, I’ve been calm and clear both times, but I do spend time with her, give her my full attention, no irritation, let her know I’m watching her, I work her back into a good place (by being strong, not by saying “sorry” or anything like that)… and then she goes blissful. Radiant. It’s been great.
>> the worst part in the written story was the change of subject, and change of opinion.
I agree. Not really about changing the subject… but I should have said “no” the first time. That would have been fine. Good communication. But saying yes, then changing my mind… that’s all on me.
And being funny would have been better yet.
>> Here’s what I’d have said with no hesitation:
>> – Why, your boyfriend doesn’t let you leave it at his place?
>> First like exposes the framing, and makes it clear the game she’s playing is not your role.
Oooooo. That is a heavy weight line. I like that. That is very edgy and powerful… as you’re not only redirecting her request, but you’re also communicating that you’re not the BF… and that that is the guy that has to deal with all the “encroachment” stuff.
Very good.
>> and
>> – Nah, you’re going to make all the other girls jealous.
This I don’t like as much. I get it. But I don’t like it as much.
Here I go back to Lance Mason’s “close/far away” concept — “if it’s far away, it’s not scary.” So that might be a little too “close.” A little too “dread game” for me.
I might tell a girl something about how she kisses, and say, “of all the girls I’ve kissed… and I’ve kissed THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS, you are blah blah blah.”
^ This allows me to talk about my experience, but make it “light,” so it’s not in her face, it’s far away… so she laughs, and I can make the comment without scaring her.
>> go for the kill, trying to test your bone and go deeper, there you say “millions”,
Yeah… this is “far away.” It’s very good. It’s cool, it’s funny, and it’s not abusive or insulting. I like it.
>> For dread game you’d start seeing a girl and telling her about how many girls you band and how she’s maybe not good enough. That should be the stick, not the carrot. The girl who will go directly to these emotions is ultimately not the girl that you want to hang around with
Yeah. 100%.
This is back to “low self esteem.” LSE girls are okay, for a one night… but you don’t want to be around them ultimately. So “dread” is a test to see if she respects herself… if you run dread, and she takes it… she’s ready for abuse, likely comes from abuse… not what I got into game for. No thank you.
>> Get hurt but take it well and work harder to please and have good times so she can climb and move from spot #9 to maybe spot #3
I think this is near where she is…
She messaged me on Thu… I had not contacted her. I replied the next day, saying something nice, calling her “sweetheart,” but I didn’t try to make plans. I won’t make more plans with her. She replied with something positive/light… but I think she gets it.
It hurts a little bit to sideline her… I feel a little cold… but this is the right move for me. No disrespect to her. I resent where she was going, but I do like her, she is a very nice girl. But I want to “clear out some space.”
This is me, putting myself first.
Killer comments from the Rivelino here. I don’t agree with you on some essential points, but this is quality conversation. Thanks man.
With that said…
>> and my reply is: whoa, whatever happened to AMUSED MASTERY??
Yes, yes, yes. I was actually pretty calm during all this. The look on her face was more emotional than I was at the time. It was later, I got resentful… I am still resentful. And that is not a quality I will cultivate in my life.
Yes to amused mastery. No to this girl.
>> #dreadgame
>> cheerful misogyny
Actually, I’m a full “no” to all this. No. Fuck no.
If you’re trapped in a LTR (for whatever reason… and that reason better be children, or WTF would keep you there)… maybe. I know “tyranny” is one way to maintain hand in a LTR.
But for a guy with options… why would you ever go “dark.” I don’t have to. No thanks. That’s me having to use tools I don’t like, to hold onto a relationship that is showing up as unusually more complicated and less fun than my other relationships.
Maybe the others will go this way… but why didn’t I post about them? Siren has been in rotation since Dec. Miss Thick… for months now. Both of them bring a level of “value” that Good Smell does not, and while both have their flavor of drama… it’s not the encroaching kind.
>> why avoid this conflict?
Because I can. Or… I can pick a flavor of conflict I like better. Choice. Choice. Choice. Why get good at the hunt to pick at the same stale carcass?? Go kill something fresh.
>> learn to handle this conflict.
Siren has been crying on me almost every date. It’s not a fight (we’ve never fought), it’s just her in her feminine hurricane nature.
I’m not sure if it’s a transition, or it’s “her.” For now, this is my “Deida exercise.” I don’t need the drama. But… once I walk her through her emotions, she rewards me with glorious femininity. It’s a radical breakthru each tiime… emotional gold. Some of the best dates I’ve ever had. She is rich like chocolate cake. And you’re right about “children,” and she age-regresses every time I pass her emotional “collapses.” And it’s joyous and lovely and feminine.
And Miss Thick was all about breaking up with me for two months in a row (but not this month). I handled both those episodes with calm, masculine certainty. They were great reference experiences. Some of the best “masculine game” I’ve ever run. That was not about be “running away.”
I’m not afraid to do the work, man. But if I’m gonna work, it’s gonna be because I want to. Because it’s worth it. Not because I need to show my “dark triad” skills. Not because I need to prove I know how to work. Fuck that.
I think that whole “solve it” frame is completely off track for me. I don’t need to. That’s the whole point. This isn’t a job… this is daygame.
The work here… the “growth,” is about moving her out of the lineup. It’s optimizing “up.” YHT. Less drama. It’s possible.
That is a skill worth cultivating.
….
>> DON’T LET ALL THAT OTHER PUSSY DISTRACT YOU
If all that isn’t enough… “1/7th” of my life, man. If I see her every “7 days.”.. she is 1/7th of my life. I like my free time. I like nights off. I like to hunt. I like the other girls. I like to date.
Dude… of course I let all that other pussy distract me. Of course I do. What is new/ample/extra pussy for if not to distract you from “problems.”
That is whole fucking point of this. It’s how I build a tornado… I let the other pussy distract me from the pussy that isn’t fun. Or… I use the pussy that isn’t fun to inspire me to find new pussy.
Dreadgame is BS. And I don’t think I ever got it until typing this out…
== Being a player means you never have to practice dread game… why would you?
Why would I trade 1/7th of my life for “problem relationship management skills?” To practice being a dick, instead of moving on. To learn the wrong skill set. On the wrong girls.
That is not what I want to get good at.
>> I will use my strength (emotional and psychological) to keep that process at bay. I will surprise girls… so they’re less stable and can’t grab at as much. I will lead girls… so they’re never dug-in and claw at my life. I will make them happy… so they’re not craving change.
— Nash
^ This is the skillset I want. This ^ is quality and positive. I can do ^ this.
I’m not afraid of girls… I’m discerning. Not every book is worth the candle.
……………………..
Big *bow* to Rivelino here, for bringing this POV. Excellent points… I brought some fire in my response, but I’ll think more about this, man. Good job. Even writing this out was super helpful for me.
No. No to dread game. No to working “to prove it” for girls that I know, by comparison to other girls, are not worth the effort. I am not hard up… and I won’t hustle like I am.
……………………..
>> clear out some space
This might be the most important part of my post to me…
I am making a tough choice, to throw away a relationship with a girl I like… but for good reason.
The enemy of “the great” is “the good.”
I now have more time for greatness. Yes to that.
This is the way to go… Now, that’s alpha! XD
“But for a guy with options… why would you ever go ‘dark.’ I don’t have to. No thanks. That’s me having to use tools I don’t like.” -Nash
hmmmm.
quick story. years ago, i had just gotten a new job, and i had to supervise five people. i was an introvert and it sort of bothered me to supervise this group, i felt like i was bossing them around, even taking advantage of them. i talked to yohami about it and he gave me a great piece of insight: you are not bossing them around, you are leading them, guiding them, showing them the right path.
boom! just that little insight — that huge insight — changed my mindset, my POV on the matter. it was a paradigm shift for me.
that little story reminds me of your “dark” comment. the way i see it — and i believe, the correct #redpill way of seeing it, the man needs to be a STRONG PROVIDER with a girl, and when i say provider, i mean he has to provide:
-leadership
-guidance
-supervision
-and punishments, when necessary
-and also REWARDS, when she earns it
she is just like a dog, *exactly* like a dog, she NEEDS masculine leadership, guidance, supervision, and occasional punishment! and then, when she behaves like a good girl, you REWARD her with your masculine love and affection.
if you want to discard her when she needs punishment — and women CRAVE punishment, it even turns them on — then you are going to have a lot of dead, stale carcasses lying around.
but i know that you know this, so maybe this is what you want. the eternal hunt. the eternal pump and dump.
maybe this is your way of never letting a woman get too close to your heart…
;-)
that’s just cheap armchair psycho-analysis, that really has no place in this conversation! but it’s always fun to do.
i still like the idea of her proving herself by doing threesomes.
oh yeah!
>> when i say provider, i mean he has to provide:
>>
-leadership
-guidance
-supervision
-and punishments, when necessary
-and also REWARDS, when she earns it
I love all this. And I think you’re right on time here… but I would sincerely discount the punishment angle. Tyrants do NOT produce stable relationships. They produce fear. I fucking hate leaders that lead by fear. I won’t be one of them. I fuck with those guys every change I get. I want to help sink those ships. Fuck tyrants.
Now, I don’t think you’re advocating tyranny. You’re not saying that… but this is where I’m at about “punishing” girls.
>> he is just like a dog, *exactly* like a dog, she NEEDS masculine leadership, guidance, supervision, and occasional punishment! and then, when she behaves like a good girl, you REWARD her with your masculine love and affection.
I am somewhat with you here… but I think ALL PEOPLE like this kind of treatment, maybe less so for true alpha/leaders, but even then. But again, I would discount punishment.
Cesar Millan (Dog Whisper) says “rules, boundaries and limitations.” He does NOT say “punishment.” He will “correct” a dog. That is solid.
If you’re running a tight ship, you don’t need punishment, man.
And you might check out “towards” vs “away” motivation. I am all about “towards” motivation. If you like “dog training” (or behavioral conditioning), check out “clicker training.” It’s all “positive motivation.” I’m doing more and more of this. It’s all “light.” No “dark” at all. Why get good at that shit?
You need consequences. This is my kind of leadership. No “punishment,” just “if you do this, then this will happen.” And that kind of “rules/boundaries/limitations” from within a context of safe, solid, beautiful leadership.
I wouldn’t be “literal” with girls. I would do it another way, but to play with that… If I wanted to keep creating with Good Smell, I could have responded with:
“Hey… when you take me on a date, you can do whatever you want. For Sunday, meet me my place… it’s my date. I’ll take care of us.”
And then gone a bit quiet. So that restates the boundaries (the, “I’m not looking for you to lead me here”) and the “tone” lets her know she overstepped. So she learns, “when I overstep, he gets distant.”
And that’s kind of what I did here already, by pulling away. I bet if I wanted to see her now, she would be more careful. There is a lot of indirectness in what I did with her, so she could rationalize it in 100 directions… but I’m sure she knows she overstepped. Or “it’s not working,” and I would agree. It wasn’t working.
Either way, I still think this was the right move.
>> and women CRAVE punishment, it even turns them on
Completely disagree. Or rather, per the comments with Yohami above… LSE women crave punishment. The same guys that love dreadgame will agree with you, and likely have LSE girls doing backflips for them… I don’t want to be one of those guys… and I really, really don’t want to date LSE girls.
No… women like strong men. Not punishment.
Women are turned on when I “pin them to the mattress,” when I can hold eye contact in difficult moments, when I smack their ass… they are not turned on by punishment. Not the girls I want to date. I do not think I’m putting girls on a pedestal here.
>> but i know that you know this, so maybe this is what you want. the eternal hunt. the eternal pump and dump.
>> maybe this is your way of never letting a woman get too close to your heart…
Riv… really? You think I’m Mr Pump Dump?? You know that’s not true. That’s BS.
I already have girls close to my heart. We have talked about feeling that need to say “I love you.” I made very specific comments about Siren and Miss Thick, which are months-old relationships now… the pump/dump comment is off track, man. You know it.
I don’t want a girlfriend. But I am cultivating multiple “close to my heart” situations. Miss Thick left this morning… we’re so good to each other. Sex… new level for us today. Very tender. Super kinky. Zero punishment, man.
>> I will surprise girls… so they’re less stable and can’t grab at as much. I will lead girls… so they’re never dug-in and claw at my life.
— Nash
I truly believe that when I do ^ this correctly, there is not time/need for negative stuff, and/or punishment. That is needed when I DO NOT do my work as a man proactively. Why would she misbehave if I’m doing my job correctly?
I know things get trickier if I try to go “full time” with one girl. I’ve done that many, many times. I don’t crave that at all right now… but since I’m not in “full time,” it’s easy to be very, very good, to get close, and not have to “punish” in any way.
These relationships are all “carrot” right now. For me and the girls. Exchange of carrots. I love how they treat me. I want to treat them in “magical” ways. I work hard to set up my dates like that. I like that. I’m not interested in the stick. Not at all.
I think as David Deangelo would say, from “double your dating” many moons ago she was testing you each time.
These were all strikes for you as they clearly should be.
Leaving stuff there and especially not leaving when you ask. That’s an easy answer…..next. You can’t reward bad behavior. It just gets worse.
Unless you want just this girl…..then definitely next because she is not falling in line to be one of a few. Any one who thinks you can work this out doesn’t understand that this girl is trouble for what you want. Let someone else figure it out.
>> especially not leaving when you ask.
There was something about this. How she would linger. There was something odd about it… it wasn’t charming.
>> You can’t reward bad behavior. It just gets worse.
I think that is true… and yet, I think most girls will continue to take, indefinitely. The question is “how much?” I’m not mad about it. I think this is female nature.
“The relationship is the woman’s territory.”
If you can keep her to “0.0000001 in per day,” you’ll be able to hold on your life and be fine for a very long time. I think that is the goal.
But when she can take big bites, especially at first… that is a bad sign.
There is a lot of different pressure working on a man in that situation. Some of it biological. If you stay in the bachelor state, you can dodge those pressures. But as you engage a woman, particularly in a monogamous situation… the “encroachment” is a natural part of that.
She’ll soften you up, she’ll take more and more, and very often… she’ll resent you for it down the road. I’ve heard this called Beta-tization. The guys behind that theory say that she will break you down and work you out of her life, and move on to the next guy, have a (2nd) baby with him, even if you were alpha… because of genetic diversity. Babies with two alphas is better than two babies with one alpha.
All that makes very good sense to me. I just don’t want to go down that road… again. I’ve been there. It’s not great. Not now.
I left a comment for you related to this blog post here: https://rivsdiary.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/no-fuckable-pussy/comment-page-1/#comment-3479
I could probably come up with some ideas for how to deal with girls leaving stuff in your room, but it would be related to managing a long term harem, which I’m not clear if you are into. I’m not sure if you are clear to yourself about that either. I’m hearing you say that you like girls on call, but prefer to freshen the inventory rather put the energy towards dealing on their terms with managing expectations and constantly maintain the chemistry.
Thanks for the comments, Xsplat. As I said on our other thread… I respect you. I read you blog a lot.
I am into the idea of a harem of sorts… with a mix of probably one or two “long term” girls, and then fresh girls, as regularly as possible.
I am very into my education. And I think that comes “across” girls. I want the survey, not the depth.
I value longterm. I’m interesting in fast-sex and ONS, but that is not at all my focus. I have had a lot of LTRs in my life, and lived with four different women (one, for seven years). I am into the richness and continuity of long-term lovers, but at this stage, not I would not put long-term above my interest in “the game.” I value the game, and my skillset/education, more than any particular girl… even a long term one.
And the truth is… I don’t have to choose between game and long-term. I can have both.
I am pretty clear that I want more practice at the find/attract/seduce part of the game. I can handle myself there, but I do not think I have mastery there… so I am willing to keep the recurring/long-term part of the harem thin… as to allow times for other girls.
That availability of time to hunt, to date, for sex… that is what I was writing about here:
— https://www.daysofgame.com/dates/leads-critical-mass-girl-tornadoes-optimization-two-dates/
Too much long-term means I have no time for new girls. And (and I only know this from recent experience)… as I have had a lot of “long-term” girls this year, if you are giving to them sexually, means your balls are empty most of the time… and a little intent helps with the new girls. Empty balls means low intent.
I want time to date, and the intent to make the hunting/dating properly spicy.
That’s what I want.
when your dignity is a higher priority than your dick (but you don’t stop approaching new targets), you know you’ve arrived.
I love ^ this. Well said.
I had two women I let go coming back to me saying they are open to a “casual relationship”.
I was surprised by this. They flat out told me they didn’t want a relationship with me, which is one of the reasons we broke up.
I don’t know if this is a new thing but this was initialized by the women and not me. I had planned to move on.
With one it’s been fine. She tells me about here dates etc. The most recent I’ll have to wait and see.
I hear a lot of women complain that men are just looking for FWB and they are not. I don’t put that out there. These women came to me with this as I don’t put up with their bad behavior.
They come back to me with this proposition saying they don’t want to have a relationship but they are open to this.