Tom Torero’s NYC Daygame Infields || Volume and Warming Up
Have you seen this clip of Tom Torero doing daygame in NYC? Check it out. Highly recommend it.
Not only is it a very good example of daygame in practice, but the consecutive approaches help detail some of the basic tenants of the daygame learning curve. There is a lot to see here, and not all of it is on the surface.
Before daygame, I studied nightgame forever. Like, for years. A quick summary of those days might be that I learned to banter with bitchy, overweight, older girls in bars. And I drank too much. That’s true. I was out with Hurricane and the Professor. It was fun… sort of.
Nightgame was never my thing, but I did get laid more often than my pre-game years. I didn’t rely on my social circle for girls at all at that point, but my progress was at best a dotted line to the cold approach I had been practicing. I used the skills I was learning through my nightgame “practice” to pick up girls at restaurants, cafes, etc. I barely consider those days progress by my standards today, but I did get better.
It was only after I started daygame that I started to actually understand “the game.” The difference was volume.
When I was into nightgame at bars… we would walk in, and look at all the couples and groups, and hope for a two-set of single girls to walk in unescorted. It mostly didn’t happen. Really hot girls were rarely alone (or in pairs). I talked to 30 year old divorced women… or whatever was available. I had some fun. I had some drunk makeouts. I once went home with a girl that looked like Grimace from McDonalds (humblebrag)… but my “training” was mostly a bunch of weak interactions with girls for whom I felt little/no real attraction. And even then… if I talked to “six girls” in a night, that was “high volume.”
I didn’t get the kind of practice I need to really grow until I finally committed to daygame.
Daygame was a whole new deal. A steady stream of single girls, dripping down the sidewalk. More hot girls in a half hour than in six whiskeys six hours in a bar. If I did two hours on the street, I could talk to 10+ girls (every one of them hotter than the girls I was talking to in bars).
Daygame introduced me to proper volume. And that volume gave me a chance to really practice. To practice on girls that were properly hot. I learned how to take numbers. I learned more than that.
Volume changed game for me. Volume… is why I got good better. Daygame is why I got better.
So now I’m known for my strong advocacy for volume as the key to getting good with girls. It’s true for nightgame as much as it is for daygame… but I don’t give a shit about nightgame.
In the community we debate the concept of “a numbers game.” That concept is controversial, only because that sometimes sounds like there is no skill to it. That volume is the same as “spam approaching,” and of course that is not true. It’s not subtle, but I can see why some folks don’t get it. It IS a numbers game, precisely because you cannot develop the skills (of approaching, let alone seduction) without the practice that comes with doing this with a lot of girls.
A lot of girls. You talk to a lot of girls, or you never fucking get it. Period.
A lot of approaches. A lot of numbers. A lot of dates (like a fucking lot). A lot of lays. A lot of introspection to help tease apart what worked, what didn’t, what it all meant when something actually went well. A lot of sex. A lot of wondering about that too.
A lot of volume. Or you’ll never begin to understand this game. Anyone that says otherwise is a goddamn liar.
Yeah.
So back to Tom’s daygame infields…
I like his footage purely for its face-value. A daygamer in his element. Full yes to that.
But I like it even more for its progression. We can see Tom improve from set to set and that progression can show us something about how to train for this kind of sport.
SET #1: 0:21… opens with “sorry.” Mechanical set. Tom is good at daygame (no doubt), but this one is clunky. You can hear him pumping a little bit of emotion into it (“thank God!” at 0:42). But he’s talking too fast. And the set is too short. He sort of forces the close. She rejects it. No surprise. As he would say, “First one, worst one.” Fine.
Then…
SET #2: 1:20… opens with “excuse me.” The Mexican girl. This one is a little smoother. They go back and forth. Like his Stealth Seduction, I can (painfully) hear myself in some of his mechanical awkwardness… the feel of him rather lovelessly marching through “the model.” Her laugh is fake, artificially high. She is trying to get out of it. He rams in the close… she says, “this is too much, but thank you.” She is a nice girl, but that’s no love connection.
They can’t all be love connections. But the lack of flow in this one might not be “chance.”
Game is about “the cards” we are dealt as much as the skill of the player. So this isn’t just Tom… the random chance of the cards each girl is always a part of what we’re watching, no matter how good the player is or isn’t.
But, notice this: these sets are in order. You’re looking at him doing a number of sets, in order, in a row, in one day, over just a few hours. (It’s extraordinarily rare to be presented with infields in this format.) You can watch his “vibe” in terms of how many he’s done… and what warming up does for his game.
I’m pointing to volume. I’m pointing to vibe. And I’m pointing to Tom warming up.
SET #3: 2:57… more “sorry.” I think I can feel him settling down a bit here… His pace is a little more “organic” sounding. I feel less “stiff” listening to it. You still feel him working (stacking through his stuff), but it’s getting better. He’s still talking too fast. She is a bit polite (3:58… “yeah,” fake laugh, then “yeah” again… sounds polite, but not into it). She volunteers some stuff after that, and is playing along. Her laugh is a little more real. Then he tries to close. It sounds weak to my ears, but she accepts.
3rd approach, and he is looking better. Tom is no amateur, but notice how this set sounds better. Not enough to inspire any envy in me, but he’s starting to sound more solid. That’s three…
Now check out this one:
SET #4: 4:48… he’s still “sorry,” but listen to this set. “I love… your hair.” Fucking solid. “Thank you so much.” She gives him such a juicy response. Awesome. He’s indoors, so maybe that is part of what helps him dial in his vibe. Slows him down. Chills him out. But as I listen to this set, it feels good. That is good daygame right there. This one is in a completely different league vs the first three. He is so much slower. His voice is deeper. Qualitatively better. More “bedroom-y.” Closes much better. Good set.
Hot damn. Now I’m jealous.
He warmed up. This set, is in every way, better than the first ones. Could be a coincidence. Maybe this girl is just more into him, or more fun. Maybe she is just a “yes” girl. But notice the very first words out of his mouth… notice the tone. Before she can say much to encourage him or help juice his vibe: “I love… your hair.” It’s not the line (it never is). It’s that “subcommunication.” It’s the pace of his voice. So much better here.
Just remember, it's in the vibe, not the words
— worldwidegame (@Amen8216) November 15, 2017
That comment from WorldWideGame is unrelated to this post, but the rule applies here too. Tom’s vibe is better…. because he’s warm.
For me… this is a perfect demonstration of the role of volume. As he gets a few sets under his belt, this one is suddenly rich, and slow, and creamy. This is the vibe that makes me want to get out there and daygame.
No. It’s not a coincidence. There is reason that his first set wasn’t that good. His “good vibe” doesn’t really kick in until he’s done a few approaches. He’s obviously not a beginner. This is just how it works for most of us… most of the time… warming up, it’s not just a beginner thing.
And volume matters.
He only shows us six of 10 sets here. He skips a few. #7 is okay (not as good as #4). He skips #8 and #9. Here is the last one:
Set #10: 12:49… he’s still sorry. But look at the pauses in that set. Go back and compare that to the pacing of his words in Set #1. He is racing to spit it out in #1. Not sexy. Nine sets later the flow of his words is languid. Nicely done, Tommy boy.
Not just total number of approaches… but total in the same day. You will get better with total volume… but your total volume will be more meaningful, when you do suitable within-day volume. 10 approaches per daygame session. More if you can.
This video is proof of what within-day volume can do to help cultivate and open up your vibe. And with better vibe, comes better sets. And reference experiences you can’t get when you’re not warmed up and you try to cherry pick a set here and there — always cold and clunky, never warm and effective. That’s a formula to to remain robotic (like Tom’s earlier sets).
Warm up, my brothers. Total volume and within-day volume. Both are important.
“I don’t bother with warmups anymore. The first couple can be a bit shakey but often my first set is also the best of the day. Last night I did 4 and the first set was the best.”
— RoyWalker
What Roy is saying here ^ is true. Sometimes my first set of the day is my best one as well. But rarely.
And lets be real… if you approach, you’re warming up. “Warmup sets” are just sets… they still count. As long as we’re hitting an appropriate number of girls per session, we’re allowing for time to “warm up.”
More importantly, “10+ approach days” will mean we’re ensuring we get some measure of contact with the girls after we’re warm. And the subsequent approaches will likely be smoother. It makes sense. We warm up. We do better. True in daygame as almost everything else.
3 approaches, 1 number. Still grinding as ever.
— Jeff Tuco (@TheUglyDaygame) November 3, 2017
I’m stoked to follow guys like Jeff Tuco on the Twit. I am. I get inspired when I see him post about approaching.
But when I see “3 approaches,” I know a guy isn’t at the potential he could be if he hit “10” or “15” and really hit his stride. Jeff may be the rare guy that is “optimal” at low within-day approaches, but if so, again, he’s an exception. Tom’s magic set in this video is #4. If he had stopped at 3, he would have had one weak number. #4 was a solid one. And that set is one that shows me the best daygame.
“I told him that he could probably cut a year off his learning curve if he’d head to midtown to find more foot traffic.”
— Nash
I made this ^ comment about Runner when he and I were out in NYC last month. This is maybe a better way of making my point…
Do you want to learn slow? Or do you want to learn fast?
There are no shortcuts. But what if more within-day volume meant you could cut a year off your learning curve? Same amount of approaches, but you’d be “good” a year earlier in your life. If that were true… that’s a powerful opportunity.
I talk about “super days.” A super day is a day when I get four or more leads in one day. With very rare exception, those are days when I do 15+ approaches. And it is also not that rare for me to date more than one of the girls from that kind of day. I do volume. I get warmed up and hit my stride. Sets start to click. I get leads. The quality of those leads are better on high volume days than the same leads might be if I had picked them off, one at a time, on a series of low volume days. And because the leads are better… I get laid more.
Daygame math. Volume. Cool.
Viva daygame.
“Volume” Yes.
The next switch is when you have that volume, but it’s the girls coming your way as opposed you you chasing them. And I call that a ‘switch’ because
1) You get to see the girls frontally, as opposed to seeing their backs. That means that you get to see them for what they are, not by the crumb trails they leave. Also means that whenever you’re interacting with a girl she wants something from you, as opposed to you wanting something from her and she resisting it. The front would be the ‘yes’ and the back would be the ‘no’. The front is where they are looking at all the time – the center of the tribe, or the top of the pyramid -, the place where they want to be, so where they use a side of them where they are being seductive, their actual face. The back is what they are running away from, the exit of the tribe, so that would be the ‘no’ girl.
2) The above makes a switch in you, and teaches you to turn any girl you meet into a ‘yes’ girl, because you’re just flipping her until you see her front, and then everything is exposed. Because every girl is a ‘yes’ as they are saying ‘yes’ to something. And that something is always the same – it’s the center of the tribe, at the top of it, where “the man” they are looking for lives.
You do need a lot of volume of ‘yes’ girls to understand it and ingrain it.
Most men live in ‘no’ world. They only see the back of the girls. A lot of PUA stuff is about catching the lost girls on the peripherals off the tribe. A lot of game is about faking being an insider so you get glimpses of ‘yes’ which are taken away immediately. The real – the REAL game starts when you move to the top and center.
That’s when the game reveals itself in all it’s splendor and ugliness.
The problem with all the approaching and game forms is that as long as you’re a man who deals with the ‘no’ girls, it only teaches you how to deal with MORE ‘no’ girls, and cash in the random lucky one that doesn’t teach you a damn thing – because you need a volume of YES to figure it out.
So more power to you for the yesses you’re turning.
Try making that ‘switch’ a priority, it will pay off.
‘A lot of volume’, I like that sound.
Top of the pyramid, I might relate, took me 4 years to build a feedback loop.
If I understand you correctly, that’s the reason I turn down women pretty quickly if they give me bad answers. I leave them without hesitation, prematurely, others sould say. But I don’t care, I know what I’m used to and get it.
-IJ
>> If I understand you correctly, that’s the reason I turn down women pretty quickly if they give me bad answers. I leave them without hesitation, prematurely, others sould say. But I don’t care, I know what I’m used to and get it.
— IJ
I won’t speak for Yohami… but I think this is close to right.
I don’t “beat on phone numbers” like a I used to. That is “looking at her back.” I ping, and move on when I don’t see a warm counter-ping. I’ve learned enough to no do that.
And… today I was out, stopped a girl. Decent chat. But no magic. So I didn’t bother trying to close… because even if I closed her, I bet the number would have been weak. I have chased weak numbers before. I know how to do that… and I know it’s a waste of my time. If I don’t enjoy that (and I don’t), why would a “top guy” do that? He wouldn’t.
So I left her “prematurely.” She wasn’t signalling she was ready to go… I just thanked her, and left. That was better for both of us.
I know what I’m looking for, and that wasn’t it. So… nice chat. Let her go. And back to “interviewing girls” for the job of “sitting in my lap.” It was a fun afternoon.
And props to Sundance and YoungGuns for being such good wings.
Roissy
>> That means that you get to see them for what they are, not by the crumb trails they leave
Yes, yes, one million times yes.
The point of this post is several layers “below” where you’re going with it, Yohami. I know you would want us to start from a position of authority, so that ” a girl she wants something from you.” And you would say that from that authoritative/alpha position (“Beiber game”)… you will learn the correct things, not “how to chase” and “how to get rejected.” That when you start from an actual position as “top guy,” you learn different skills (you have a much healthier POV) than when you’re trying to “optimize bottom guy’s options.” The former is a great path to follow. And I get it. And I agree.
This is sort of a “middle step” for those of us that are going at this path via daygame and cold approach, vs “environment” game, and situational “alpha” game. I’m with you about “only alphas” win at either/both games… but this is a low-level tactical post.
This is basic lesson about “warming up.”
“I know you would want us to start from a position of authority”
Also because as a trait, “authority” is the big piece that makes all the other pieces fit. It’s also a piece that is incongruent with Beta. And a piece you need to have mastered back and forth a million times to the point it’s always there but it’s not ‘pushing down’ unless needed. Leading, pacing, commanding, setting boundaries = authority. The beta frame rejects it so it will sabotage it, either by asking that the girl leads and paces, or failing to lead and pace etc.
The whole beta frame is about not having authority, while the whole alpha frame is about having it. And the whole shit-testing and back and forth girls put you through is about pinging where you’re at with it. And then you must have the known-how and grace to succeed at exercising the authority and be natural and fun while at it, which means all must be second nature, which means it must come from experience – which comes from the trial and error and repetition of SUCCESS.
So yeah it’s not a minor thing. Starting from a position of authority is, internally, the frame of mind that must be there for you to pull the girl and dance the dance. And externally, what arranges the loop around you and gives you the good things in life, or puts you in an environment where you can make things happen while being in-synch with the world around you. Which is easier than, say, not doing any of that ;-)
“The whole beta frame is about not having authority, while the whole alpha frame is about having it. And the whole shit-testing and back and forth girls put you through is about pinging where you’re at with it. ”
Authority. I like the emphasis on that here. That’s a better word than we’ve used in other places.
AUTHORITY is a good word!
we are making some breakthroughs in communication here, yohami.
authority. yes.
https://pancakemouse.wordpress.com/2017/11/12/yohami-breaks-down-the-texts-before-a-flake/
^ For more on AUTHORITY, check out PANCAKES blog where Yohami is talking about COMMANDS vs QUESTIONS.
“This is sort of a “middle step” for those of us that are going at this path via daygame and cold approach”
Try to simultaneously be as authoritative as you can, while as relaxed as you can. Pull in both directions to your limits. Like a “Hey” with a loud commanding voice, while smiling. Or a tease saying something outrageous while not moving into her space (but leaning back). Make the world spin around you. All that is the ‘dick swinging’. Then she’ll lit up at some point, and that’s the ramp.
>> The real – the REAL game starts when you move to the top and center.
>>
>> That’s when the game reveals itself in all it’s splendor and ugliness.
Agree 100%.
>> because you need a volume of YES to figure it out
I still don’t have it “figured out.” But I have found decent volume of YES… and it has taught me a lot. I have a long ways to go.
Nice post. I reckon if I can only do high volume on the weekend, it doesn’t hurt to supplement with some low volume days during the week. I’m curious if you think that is the right move or if it’s better to only sarge when I can do high volume and during the week study, relax, etc.
It would be unwise to never do high volume. As long as you do it, and as long as you are conscious about the warming up and the different experience, I say do some small days to support the long sessions. I like the 10+ rule.
-IJ
I think it depends, Cobra.
If you “hate it” and you’re only getting “negative feedback,” then I think it might make progress harder.
I want to be clear, I’m not trying to give us all another reason to skip approaching. “I can’t do 10, so I might as well do none at all.”
I like the point I make about “cutting a year off your learning curve.” I think that’s the deal. “Concentrated” approaching is more powerful, than the same number of approaches spread out over several days. I believe that.
Back to your question…
If you’re doing “5” approaches, and you’re getting some practice calibrating to her (I am always playing with how close I can be, what I need to do to get her to stop, etc)… if that’s the level of lesson you’re getting… that’s good by my standards.
“If you’re doing ‘5’ approaches, and you’re getting some practice calibrating to her…if that’s the level of lesson you’re getting… that’s good by my standards”
I am learning, even on low volume days. I never ‘hate it”, but I still get “negative feedback” sometimes, and sometimes in a day that’s all I get. I have enough reference experience now I can usually brush it off.
I mass approach on the weekends, but five days for me is too long to go without approaching. When I do that I spend half of Saturday fighting through AA. Because I’m learning and I don’t hate it, I will stick to low volume days during the week, if for no other reason than to keep the iron in the fire.
And like you and IJ are saying, I will aim for 10+ on the weekend days.
Speaking of “cutting a year off your learning curve” I don’t know about other people, but since I started recording my sets and analyzing them, I have made some serious improvements. Now I wish I had a wing to film me.
“But when I see “3 approaches,” I know a guy isn’t at the potential he could be if he hit “10” or “15” and really hit his stride. Jeff may be the rare guy that is “optimal” at low within-day approaches, but if so, again, he’s an exception.”
I disagree. Everyone should aim for “stateless” game where you do not need no “warm up sets”. Daygame should be about that one girl you chat up when going to the gym and the other one you talk to when going back home.
Saying “I’m good at daygame, I just need to talk to 5-6 girls first” is an oxymoron. Doing many approaches isn’t the goal. You should be aiming at effective daygame, not a high volume one.
However, I am all in for high volume as a learning mechanism. I’ve been through that phase and most people I know have been as well. It leads to burnouts and being robotic but it’s worth it in the end. Once you don’t need high volume at all.
>> However, I am all in for high volume as a learning mechanism.
This is exactly what I’m getting at. Yes to that.
>> everyone should aim for “stateless” game
Personally… this ^ doesn’t help me.
“I feel however I feel and that’s okay. So I will use this authentically and rely on that authenticity to carry me through.”
— Krauser, from his Stateless Game post
— https://krauserpua.com/2013/05/13/stateless-game/
I thought about this post forever. I’ve read it many times. And it mostly just fucks with my head. I don’t think about it anymore.
I’m a full “yes” to authenticity. But “stateless game” is just wind-wank for me. Whether you call it “state” or “vibe,” I know when I’m “stiff.”
I can approach when I “feel however I feel.” And if I feel flat… the sets are mostly flat. And that is okay. But even then… when I do a few more… I tend to warm up, I tend to “open up,” and then… I’m less flat. That… comes with volume, not a “theory.” Repeating the theory doesn’t warm me up. Social interactions do.
Warming up… is real. I’m “warm,” when I’m not stiff. Simple.
Look at stuff Krauser has said since then. His video with Eddie where he talks about “controlling your vibe.” Krauser knows vibe is important. I don’t think any of us are really arguing against that.
The point of this post was to show something SPECIFIC in Tom Torero’s day… and that is real. And we can all see it. He gets better, his sets are demonstrably better… after he has “warmed up.” No theory needed. And I don’t think what we’re seeing is a coincidence.
>> where you do not need no “warm up sets”.
— TDdaygame
Or…
>> There aren’t enough girls that you can afford to waste the first ten sets trying to hit state
— Krauser
Like what I said in the post about that comment from Roy Walker… this isn’t about “doing warm up sets.” I never said that. We just have “sets.” I don’t know what a “warm up set” would even look like… it’s still me, and a girl, on the sidewalk. That’s a set.
The point is that “warming up” will likely help to get you into “peak state” as Krauser said. And that — ON AVERAGE — you might notice you are closer to “peak state” after a few approaches get you loosened up. AND… ON AVERAGE… you approaches will go better after you’re loose. Dead simple.
>> state is the power of your energy glow / aura and your attunement to the micro-rhythms of the street. Vibe is your internal level of calm, balance and boundaries. State is far more volatile than vibe.
— Krauser
A lot of this is about us using different words to talk about the same things…
I’m not saying vibe isn’t real. Wake up after 8 hours of sleep, get a nice deal, earn some money, have a chat with your friend and your daygame will be better.
I’m just not so keen on using daygame sets to amp up your vibe. There are other ways.
The most sets I was doing was ~25 sets per day in Kiev. I burned out really quickly. 30 sets per day for a long period of time? Fuck no, never. I’ve never done more than about 120 sets in a month. I just know that If I did more they would be of shitty quality. I know because I tried it.
There is a border between doing a lot of sets and spam approaching. If you’re getting a number per 3-4 approaches, you’re fine.
I also realized one more thing when you linked those Krauser posts and I don’t think many people talk about it. When I was earning my daygame ribbons I was out 6 sometimes 7 days a week. Doing few sets almost every day.
I think by doing that I was training myself to do them evenly, regardless of my vibe. If I’d go out and do 30 sets in a weekend (and then nothing during the week) I’d probably train myself to exploit warming up.
But when I was doing 3-6 sets per day I didn’t have the luxury of warming up. I had to be sharp from the very beginning.
Besides, I don’t really believe there are that many places in the World when you consistently can do double digits of approaches every day.
>> When I was earning my daygame ribbons I was out 6 sometimes 7 days a week. Doing few sets almost every day.
— TD
This is a great practice. I didn’t want to get to “technical” in this post, but that will do almost the same thing as high within-day volume. My game is probably best when I go almost everyday.
>> But when I was doing 3-6 sets per day I didn’t have the luxury of warming up. I had to be sharp from the very beginning.
Well… we don’t “have to be sharp.” : ] Its just that we’re wating everyone’s time when we’re not. But I hear you.
When you go everyday… it’s “familiar.”
Reminds me again of Yohami’s “authority.” If you game everyday, you should feel comfortable, but also competent. You might be able to bring more of a “daygamers” authority to each approach. More of the a “social guys” authority and comfort for yet another social interaction.
I like it.
>> The most sets I was doing was ~25 sets per day in Kiev. I burned out really quickly. 30 sets per day for a long period of time? Fuck no, never.
Aahhh! I have a “confession” about this very point coming in my next post. I think 30 sets a day is fine (particularly if you’re number farming)… if you feel like it. If it’s fun. But it should never be mandatory. No, no. I will have more to say about that soon. “Fuck no, never.” Yeah.
excellent analysis and post. i agree completely. when i was working on getting my first 1,000 approaches, my best sets were almost always 5-10. the first ones were crappy, and after 10 i usually lost stamina.
it’s just like when you go to the opera, and the musicians are warming up before the concert.
Yeah, man.
>> after 10 i usually lost stamina.
And this ^ is a different concept altogether. : ]
In Japan… no matter how “good” I felt… my sets got “weak” after about 30 approaches. I was “out of gas.” That’s real.
But… I would take the train back to my apartment… and often open again after the train ride and before I got home. And those sets were almost always HOT. Because I was very warm from the day… and… after a bit of rest on the train ride… I had a bit more stamina to approach when I was back in my neighborhood.
Dang, and I thought 5 was a decent amount for an outing. I’m lucky enough to see 2 of them at the mall during my lunchbreak in suburban america. When I head to Target in the evenings, I have to make a conscious reminder that I will only see 1 HB, so I better not fuck it up by chickening out.
I feel you, man.
5… is actually my “bottom end” for a “proper day.” That’s min. 10 is my typical target. 15 is when I’m hungry and things are “more good than they are bad.”
Keep going. And consider moving! I remember when guys were talking about that when I first got into game… I thought it was crazy. Now I am dead certain that “proper territory” is a very big deal.
I talk about that guy Stealth in Tokyo (his blog is offline right now). He lives in the middle of an endless river of hot, young girls. Endless. And he has the most amazing stories. Fucking 50+ girls a year. I have seen him game and I believe him… but more importantly… I’ve seen his neighborhood in Tokyo.
“Shooting fish in a barrel.” Not quite that easy… but VOLUME of targets is the beginning of volume of approaches.
There are no “practice” sets. There are no “warm up” sets. Only sets. They’re all real.
Yep.
— https://krauserpua.com/2017/11/07/crack-pipe-daygame/
Some of what TDdaygame might be getting at comes out in this post from Krauser:
CRACKPIPE daygame vs FAT BUDDHA daygame.
I am advocating for the kind of vibe/state that comes from CRACKPIPE daygame.
“Watching these sets you’ll notice high energy, very real fun being had, and usually the techniques are free-form and follow the model in principle more than in specific actions. It’s often belligerent, fizzy, and gets strong positive reactions from girls”
— Krauser
Yeah… like that… but not necessarily “high energy.” Tom’s #4 in that video is not high energy. It’s rich. It’s juicy. He is really enjoying the set. I bet it does burn energy, as Tom is emotional in that set.
VS what he compares that to with FAT BUDDHA daygame.
“While in set, it looks a lot like Crack Pipe daygame but not as fizzy. It’s more controlled, less extravagant in the use of energy. There’s a downside to this type too, which is lower overall activity. You’ll only do a 1/10th of the work as Crack Pipe daygaming [5] which is good, but you’ll only fuck half as many women.”
— Krauser
He is saying specifically that FAT BUDDHA is more chill, more “even,” but specifically lower-volume.
That is legit game. That may be ideal. But I think that is not a place for a BEGINNER/INTERMEDIATE.
This post was about the LEARNING CURVE… and in that space… I think CRACKPIPE style is better in terms of learning and progressing.
“Dang, and I thought 5 was a decent amount for an outing. I’m lucky enough to see 2 of them at the mall during my lunchbreak in suburban america. When I head to Target in the evenings, I have to make a conscious reminder that I will only see 1 HB, so I better not fuck it up by chickening out.” -VR
everyone needs to WARM UP for optimal performance! it’s good and normal. mind and body both. lebron james warms up before the game. stretches. shoots some free throws. cristiano ronaldo stretches. kicks the ball around.
WARMING UP is good and normal for OPTIMAL performance, **especially** when you are still learning and haven’t reached the mastery stage.
if there aren’t too many hot girls where you live, then don’t warm up on the hot girl! first, talk to the fat but friendly cashier at the grocery store. or talk to the old man feeding the pigeons. most of us need to WARM UP socially for OPTIMAL performance. it’s good and normal.
andy yosha has this nice little video about how to WARM UP, he calls it state shifting.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xicvmj
>> lebron james warms up before the game. stretches. shoots some free throws. cristiano ronaldo stretches. kicks the ball around.
Good points, Riv. That is exactly what I’m trying to get at…
http://www.daysofgame.com/street_game/gifts-inner-game-tourists-vs-girls/
This is one of my oldest posts… about “warming up” by helping tourists (the non-hot ones). I still do this. Almost anyone holding a map… I approach. It’s good to help warm me up… and it’s also not as easy as it sounds. Good calibration practice all on it’s own… and helps loosen me up.
[…] discussion started in the comments section of a blog post over at Days of Game. Nash observed that in both Tom Torero’s and his approach to daygame there is a period of […]
[…] super flattered.” I should have used Tom Torero’s line I heard in the video that Nash posted, something like, “You gotta go, I gotta go, but I’d love to take you […]
Only real thing I took from this video when it first came out (I caught the uncensored version before YouTube made him blur out the girls faces), was how sad it was to see Tom get rejected by such plain women in the easiest city in the US. Just goes to show how completely random daygame can be when you are not filtering for sexually available women.
I think there’s some validity to the “warming up” theory, at the same time, sets are just random. If he had met the first girl in the afternoon, for example, the set could have been just as bad, because she wasn’t sexually available or wasn’t attractive.
I agree with some of the other posters that there are few cities in which one can get enough volume in a daygame session to properly depend on warming up to get “in state”.
I am lucky enough that I can quickly approach and do OK with no warmup at all. A valuable toolset for such a barren city as ours, Nash.
>> Only real thing I took from this video when it first came out … Just goes to show how completely random daygame can be when you are not filtering for sexually available women.
That is a read I would want us to look past…
To me that’s like pointing to Krauser getting rejected and saying, “See… this doesn’t work!” That is to miss the point that we can roll up on girls… that it can be done. And… that while it doesn’t always work… it often works. At beautiful levels. There is baby and bathwater here… one, we don’t want to throw out.
So with Tom… the thing to see is NOT that he got rejected by a couple of girls. But rather that his first sets are weak (and then… he gets better)… and those are the first ones. Besides #4, I point out #7… which is leagues better than #1 and #2. That… is not “random.”
To focus on “random” is make one’s self powerless.
>> If he had met the first girl in the afternoon, for example, the set could have been just as bad, because she wasn’t sexually available or wasn’t attractive.
That might be true… but I doubt it. And I point to NOT her reaction (you’re correct, there is a lot of randomness in this game), but to HIS PERFORMANCE.
We can see for ourselves. He sucks in that set. He is too fast. He is not charming. It’s forced. No… I believe that is NOT a coincidence. Nor is it really about her reaction. Fuck her reaction… we can’t control that.
This is about what we can control.
Because three sets later… we see something wholly different… from the same guy, on the same day. That’s not random. He did a VERY DIFFERENT approach… and it looks much better. He was… warm.
“I love… your hair.” Nice. It’s not the words… it’s his “warmth.”
>> goes to show how completely random
The thing about ^ this is… it’s “throw up my hands” level thinking. You, my very smart and enterprising friend, are not a “throw up your hands” kind of guy. I know that about you.
A commitment to “random” leaves me powerless (and we are NOT powerless).
So the way to take this footage is that WARMING UP IS CAUSAL. That… is something I can use.
>> Tom get rejected by such plain women in the easiest city in the US
Plain women… I think you’re right. “Easiest city in the US?” That’s on you to justify.
Mostly… (and I think IRL is fundamentally different than online in this regard)… daygame is the same wherever you go. NYC… was not, IMAO, anything close to “easy.”
But… I did better when I was warm!
Can we see your infields pancakemouse if you say NYC is so easy for you? RSD, Torrero, Sasha Daygame all say its a tough city.
Gotta walk the walk if you talk the talk brotha
Never heard anyone describe NYC as tough. In the circles I run in, NYC is considered the easiest and best city: anonymous, girls come from all over the world looking for “adventure”, good male:female ratios, and hot girls.
Personally, I’ve never been there, and I don’t really do daygame. Mostly online. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
From the people I know and trust everyone says NYC is hard and very incompatible with the London Daygame Model. You’re not only competing with other guys but also with the city itself. Sets are shorter, everyone is in a rush and it’s very hard to build a lasting connection.
In my experience, the London Daygame Model is pretty incompatible with the US in general. Could it be that NYC is still the best US city?
“filtering for sexually available women”
This a million times.
Maybe you missed the video from Tom after the infield one where he debriefs about vibe and state and hotness etc etc etc. Its here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pbIx-eugko
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pbIx-eugko&t=2m25s
Hey! No… I had never seen this. And yeah, exactly… he is saying almost word for word what I said about those first two sets.
>> “They are stilted, rather mechanical.”
>> “There’s no fire. There’s no testosterone.”
And then…
>> “The more interactions you do… you feel it coming from your balls rather than your mind.”
— Tom T
Yeah. Exactly. Volume.
As Rivelino would say, “Volume, baby. Volume.”
“I also wanted to get ready for the student.”
— Tom
This ^ is also interesting.
I hear him saying he wanted to “look good” for the student, so he went out to “build vibe” before he met up w/ the student.
Now imagine the student’s POV… you assume Tom is always on. But no. Tom went out early, did a “full day” (10 sets) on his own, and then was “on” for the teaching.
There is something to learn here. I’m into it.
Very good for new guys to get this.
Great additional, Carlos… thank you.
For the very same reasons I always demoed… without warming up.
Different approaches, I guess.
“without warming up.”
tomas you don’t need to warm up b/c you are jacked!
Ahahaha.
I always liked to show students ups and downs. The real daygame. Not “I’m warmed up with perfect vibe, look at how it’s done kiddo”.
Most guys when they see blowouts or uninterested girls are more happy to do daygame themselves, not less.
“Most guys when they see blowouts or uninterested girls are more happy to do daygame themselves, not less.”
interesting insight!
How about no to the struggle https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH9Sz65Qjwk
Tyler talks about ramps on the minute 15:14 of that video. But the reason I posted it here is all these girls bouncing their boobs on Max face as he chills out against a wall.
Interesting. So recommendable to move in for the kiss when her emotions are “spiked”, she’s laughing or something?
Usually I do it when there’s a break in conversation. It pauses for a second, I look her in the eyes, she reverts my gaze, and I lean in.
Yes – do things that elicit emotions, then escalate. When she reacts positively to the escalation, escalate more (the break in the conversation is the opposite of that)
But ‘laughing or something’ doesn’t describe it. She has to be open for the kiss, and she has to be there because you did something to make that happen. In your case during the ‘conversation break’ what you did was to look in her eyes and wait till she reverts the gaze – so that part is right, now just apply it to every other little thing. You poke, when she’s receptive, escalate.
I’ve written loads of comments about it here
I saw Tyler say that and made a note… but he’s not as clear as he is in other places.
“Ride on the crest of the wave…
“What the crest of the wave is, right as a great emotion happens, then you suggest something…
“Women typically… the man suggests something that escalates the situation, she goes within, sees how she feels, and if she likes how she feels, she says yes.
“So, if you put her in a very logical, kind of downstate, and you say you want to go somewhere, she goes within herself, and she says no
“If you joke, and have some good energy and momentum behind that energy, and you say lets go here, she goes within herself, she likes the direction the energy is going and she is more inclined to say yes
“Spike the wave.. and go in”
— RSD Tyler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2H9o6z1oKU&t=19m15s
“The whole thing is good, but 23:04 “I only escalate when they are going to say yes”. Lead, tease “swing your dick”, see what resonates, then double on that. This is how you get a YES from every girl.”
— Yohami
http://www.daysofgame.com/theory/tom-torero-stealth-seduction-review/#comment-1399
^^ Better examples.
From one of my favorite posts on this blog:
http://www.daysofgame.com/dates/tyo-1st-date-jafrica/
“Fun… up… and then, ‘lets go!’
“You only do that kind of thing if they are feeling amazing
“You don’t do it if they’re not feeling amazing, don’t do it
“You only go for an escalation if they are going to say yes
“I don’t escalate when they’re not going to say yes, why would I do that?”
— Tyler
This was maybe my first attempt at getting “the ramp” layed out… combining Yohami and TDs comments.
I think you’d be very confused by Tyler’s comment but it wasn’t meant for students of the game. I watched his hot seat at home private course and he said there he cannot say in public comments that imply he’s encouraging men to do anything that women will not say yes to. So I think that comment was more for the SJW. For us, we still calibrate the best way we can and when it’s time to take a chance, we take it like men. If it works then good. If that escalation gets rejected, she can see a man who finds her rejection cute and funny which is attractive. And who is this Yohami guy you’re getting advice from? Until I see an infield from him, his views are just that: Personal opinions. And since 99% of men don’t get laid and a lot of men in authority positions are actually beta towards women, I view him as one of the 99% who get boy no action until I see proof otherwise. Trust your instincts my day gaming friend, be an independent sigma wolf and remember 99% of men either don’t know that the secrets society exists or they mentally masturbate imagining what it is. A position of authority doesn’t automatically make you alpha, it may get you a girl who wants a provider and then she becomes the alpha in the relationship. Nothing turns you into a man with true abundance like volumes. And Yohami if getting laid was no problem for you, you wouldn’t be spending your days on game blogs mentality masturbating all over the keyboard you’re jockeying, you’d be actually getting laid. Peace.
>> For us, we still calibrate the best way we can and when it’s time to take a chance, we take it like men. If it works then good. If that escalation gets rejected, she can see a man who finds her rejection cute and funny which is attractive.
If you have read much of this blog, you know I “take my chance” all the time, which is often (initially) rejected, and I am very comfortable with smiling and carrying on if she won’t take a kiss, etc. I’m super comfortable in that mode.
I’m with you there.
The point of what Tyler is saying, and what Yohami is saying… is how to take it to the next level. I have “mugged” girls with a kiss attempted many, many times. Just “took my chance.” I think just making the move is a form of “communication” of it’s own, and can be a good idea, even if you’re rejected…
But… I think there is room to do better.
I think Tyler/Yohami are pointing at something that is real… and I have felt it at times, but I want to make it a point of focus an grow in that direction.
I’m onboard w/ Tyler/Yohami’s “ramp” concept. Spike her, take her at the flood. It’s almost no different than “taking your chance,” but it’s like chess… thinking TWO MOVES ahead instead of just one. It’s a little hard. Takes more focus.
I’m into it.
>> I watched his hot seat at home private course
I watched it too… took a lot of notes.
Not sure this is the same thing you’re thinking of, but here’s a related quote:
“What we teach at RSD is not just how to be not just how to be assertive and take massive action, but is to be extremely respectful of another person’s ecosystem, and what they’re experiencing… and the second it goes negative in any way, shape or form, you backing off. You are always aware of where she is at. And BTW, that again, will make you so great at meeting women. Because they sense that you are aware of them. And because they sense you are aware of them, there is no downside.”
— Tyler, Hotseat at Home
Now this ^ is the “negative” version of the ramp. This is about damage control. It’s about reading her very carefully and backing off when she’s showing she doesn’t like your move.
And that’s cool.
“”You guys ever hear expressions like ‘no means no?’ That’s not enough. You ever heard of even the idea of ‘affirmative yes?’ Like wait for the girl to say ‘yes’ before you have sex? That is not even enough. It shouldn’t even come to a point where that would ever even come up, because that would even indicate that she is uncomfortable. The girl should never be uncomfortable with what you’re doing. The second that a little bit of discomfort comes up, you are apologizing, you’re backing off.”
— Tyler
This is about “being careful.”
But his “take her at the flood” concept is the “positive” version of that same calibration. About using that same level of calibration, but looking for moments NOT to “control damage” but to move fwd.
In both cases… this is about calibration.
Tyler can’t say “make the ho’ say no.” SJWs would hang a crew like RSD for saying that (even if that’s not exactly what it sounds like).
But there is nothing incompatible with what RSD is saying and good/”aggressive” game. He’s talking about the ART of escalation.
All looks smart and calibrated (if a bit subtle) to me.
>> And who is this Yohami guy you’re getting advice from?
>>Until I see an infield from him, his views are just that: Personal opinions
Well… Yohami has been an incredible gift to me. I DO have a lot of experience…and I can compare what I see to what Yohami says… and I see the truth of what he is trying to teach me.
More than that, I argued with his points for months… and mostly wasted my time because I wouldn’t listen.
I got a lot better when I tried to incorporate what he has been teaching me… what he has been teaching us.
>> Trust your instincts my day gaming friend
And here I’ll call you out about your own experience… Do you have enough experience to confirm/deny Yohami’s POV? You sound like you have at least some experience to me…
So… which point do you think is wrong? And what is your personal experience to back it up??
Saying you have to see infields is fucking BS. He has nothing to prove to you. And meanwhile… you either have a solid argument as to why something he says is off… or you’re just talking shit.
Don’t come here to talk shit. That’s not what this blog is about.
You want to DEBATE… let’s do it. You’d be welcome here.
You want to talk shit… go the fuck away.
Silencio, how about you drop the AMOG and learn.
at 6:05, todd says, “maybe your first daygame sets aren’t your best. you’re allowed to have that warm up set.”
https://youtu.be/PPAh7KhsYIE?t=6m11s