At the level of theory, the theme of the year for me is that we are different Types of men, we want different Types of girls, and the Context in which a given man tries to accomplish his goals is crucial to making sense of given situation. We are not all the same (NAMALT/NAWALT) and Types matter a lot. I’ll talk about Types here in a way that is helping me navigate some of the ideas in the sexual marketplace.
As the headline might indicate, I’m going to take aim at the Redpill scene. Depending on your Type, there are different Truths to be found, but the “Harsh Truth” Type of Redpiller sees the world in a distinct way. And alternative Truths are at the heart of this essay.
I got into it with some guy I’ll call Mr Anxiety, a 2nd-tier Redpill preacher type that loves Harsh Truths. Some guys around him thought I was avoiding a debate. One messaged me saying “I am trying to get an idea of who is right.” I wrote this post to work through my thoughts on these topics.
Here is where it went sideways with Mr Anxiety and I:
“The anxiety that comes with the insecurity of the relationship is what drives her to sexual desire.”
— Mr Anxiety
What do you think of that statement? Do you think it’s true? Is that a Harsh Truth we need to accept? If it is true for you and the girls you date, I’d stop here and say that says more about you (and those girls) than the rest of the world. You’re not wrong… you’re just a certain Type.
For my part, I think that is completely ridiculous bullshit. But I am hearing it more and more in the ‘Sphere. If the Redpill guys want to bond over their Harsh Truths, good for them. But as they begin to prescribe next steps in Seduction, the fatal flaws of that scene are easier to see.
Most of the lessons men need have been around as long as men have. Masculinity, Dominance, Seduction, etc. are all timeless Schools of education for men.
The uniquely Redpill concepts that are of any use at all seem to work to teach men Defense in relationships. Beyond that, the Redpillers seem particularly inept when it comes to theory about being enticing, about actually attracting women, about getting past theory and bringing quality women into a man’s life. Mr Anxiety is one such example.
I don’t think it’s controversial at all to say that their Harsh Truths and Intimacy with girls don’t pair well. The Harsh Truthers can warn you. They can tell you a lot of “scary stories.” They can lecture you on how to assume the Defensive Crouch against “the Female Imperative.” But does any of that help you bringing women into your life?
If you’re taking Game advice from the Harsh Truthers, I think it’s the kind of advice that will specifically lead you in the wrong direction, but… I suppose it depends on your Type.
Bluepill/Redpill… too simple. And while we argue less about Bluepill, the term Redpill is increasingly meaningless. It is an attempt at “typing” (which we need), but it’s too “low resolution” to be useful to me at this point in my life. I’ll run through my take here for some context.
I take Bluepill to be something like the romantic narrative of many 80s movies. This is where a low value guy does foolishly romantic things, which don’t work well at first, but over time, the girl decides that the low value guy is attractive, she gives the guy an “A for effort”, and the guy gets the girl. That’s the plot of many movies, but it’s not how life works. Almost everyone reading this should know that.
As Men of Game, we can pick on Bluepillers pretty easily and say that those men are all “pull” and not enough “push.”
Push/pull is a core concept in Game and I won’t try to go over it now, but we can see that it hints at a type of Balance. A balanced man is attractive. He has some edge, but not only edge. He can show some care and genuine interest in a girl… but not only care and interest. Balance.
Balance is an essential ingredient in understanding success with women.
In contrast to Bluepill, Redpill is supposed to be “seeing the world as it is.” So far so good.
Some guys think this means embracing “Harsh Truths.” And I can be on-board with some of that too. But if certain guys insist that we focus on the “harshness” of our opportunities, I think those guys are signally very clearly about their Type. I also think they have eclipsed the Truth, and are ideologues for something that should not be confused with Truth at all.
Yes, life if full of harshness, no doubt. But not only harshness. Anyone that insists on a constant mediation on “harshness” is signaling what they are – the rejected MGTOWs, the angriest of the divorced men, etc. The Redpill has special appeal for these men. No disrespect for people navigating trauma, but I don’t look to them for leadership… certainly not in Seduction or Game.
Often, the view that something is “Harsh” to a given man is a sign he is unprepared – thus he feels the environment as Harsh. It’s not the environment, it’s the man.
Imagine being at sea. If you’re not prepared, your life is in danger. If you are prepared… it could be a hysterically fun time. The situation (The Truth) is neither good/bad. “Not all days at sea are like that” – rather obvious, isn’t it. And your individual preparedness as a man (and your Type), can make all the difference.
Is life still terribly Harsh? For some Types, maybe. For me, I don’t think so. I am talking about women. And a lot of us are having a lot of fun. Harsh isn’t the reality we cling to.
The best of Redpill seems to want to make men more prepared, and I recognize some good intentions there… but I am convinced we can find better teachers. For example, Classical Masculinity teaches men to be Strong, Disciplined, to have Boundaries, to Lead. Game teaches Seduction, Charm… how to bring women into your life. There is a Confidence in these Schools. It’s about getting what you want… with less emphasis on “be careful, be careful!!!!”
In current times, I’m of the opinion that Redpill sentiment is mostly about “Defense” and how to “protect yourself from the very dangerous womenz” out there. Defense. Not so much “how to win” as “how to avoid losing.” Defense, as in how to avoid “divorce rape” or weaponized “consent,” etc.
Divorced guys seem particular enthusiastic for Redpill… I think they wished they had better Defense and they think Redpill Harshness would have helped. Maybe it would have… but none of this is Seduction or Game or Desire. It’s Defense. If you get that, you’ll know when they might be useful and when… you could choose better role models.
Most of what the Redpill guys claim as the Truth can be found via Masculinity, Game, and Evolutionary Psychology. The parts that are particular to Redpill, the memes that show up over and over, are the Harsh Truths and the Defensive Crouch. Take a look at what is underneath the most popular themes – Redpill is mostly about “how to say no.” If it doesn’t sound sexy, it’s because it’s Anti-game.
These guys are have too much “Be Careful!,” and not enough “Hey, Little Girl, c’mere.” Can you feel the difference?
The Redpill guys LARP about with their Harsh Truths. They will tell you endless stories of guys that “drown in boating adventures.” “The sea… so dangerous.” (You don’t see negative stories like this in Game). And Harsh Redpillers will insist that “all oceans are like that.” They talk tough… they know the “Truth”… but I’m not convinced they have become particularly good at adventures. Have they? They may convince you to stay home, but can they get you where you want to go?
When we’re ready to bring women into our lives, Game is the School. Better tactics… and a much better vibe.
I was once unprepared. I was too “earnest” when I was younger. No shame in any of this. Unprepared men have some lame ideas about how the world works. They get burned. More often, they get nothing at all.
I hate to see these guys settle into the paranoid Defensive of Redpill. There are better, richer “Truths” out there. And I’m not guessing.
I am a pickup guy. I have dated hundreds and hundreds of girls via cold approach and daygame. I don’t get what I want all the time and I don’t know any man that does. But I got better. I can and do create “action” all the time. Maybe the world is still Harsh, but now that I am prepared, it rarely feels that way to me anymore.
I say this last part about my history as a Player not to brag… but to make it clear that men like me don’t resemble Bluepill guys. What we call Bluepillers can’t do what competent Players and daygamers can do. And my history shows I’m a competent daygamer.
So… if I’m not naive and ineffective like a Bluepiller, but I reject the traumatized harshness of Redpill guys… I think I’m ready to open this conversation up to some fresh air.
ON BEING A LOVER:
Here on this blog I often represent a Type of Game with a lot of Romance to it. There are other Types in Game, but this is my Type.
We have already pushed “80s movie” Bluepill Romance aside – that is not what I am talking about. Here, I’ll suggest the kind of Romance that reminds us of Casanova. If you think Romance makes Casanova a Bluepiller, I think that idea makes you a meathead… and we can move on.
I like this Type of Game, and the girls that like me also like it. I have seen some very happy girls.
I don’t think of anything that I do as “Redpill.” I studied other Schools of thought and none of my success was inspired by Redpill at all. I learned success with women from Confident, Positive, Attractive Schools of Game. And I got better. It works.
I like the term Lover. It’s an old term. The Lover is a Type that sees the sexual marketplace a certain way. I tend to think the French and Italians have a culture that is more encouraging of this kind of “Warm” game.
Is that Bluepill? By definition I’d say no. Being able to create action for yourself – with new girls, often several at a time – is hard and requires insight and skill with women. No one thinks Bluepill men have those skills.
There is plenty of room in the space between men and women for Warmth. I say all this to help steer some guys away from the Harsh Truth dogma. There are better ways to see the world.
The Romantic/Lover Type wants extraordinary experiences. He wants them for himself. And he wants them for her. And he can do it. He has proven it many times. The girls that get onboard, are deeply appreciative. They are really into it. I’m not guessing, I have done all this. Lots of men have. It’s an old tradition.
Types matter and a Romantic Type attracts a Romantic Type (or a girl that is open to that). He can give a girl a sense of being a Princess, but she is clear he is a King. When you have Balance, all of this works out just fine. Not overly “Harsh,” is it?
This isn’t for everybody, but it’s a workable model and it runs on Bliss, Admiration, Sexuality, Enthusiasm. Once we have good boundaries in place, we rarely need anything Harsh at all – that whole concept is a dark alley, a distraction from the upside of the sexual marketplace. There is an upside.
Historically, the Lover Types have done phenomenally well with women – arguably better than almost all other men. They have had a LOT of sexual experiences with a lot of women, and the women have praised them for those experiences. It’s a win-win view of mating and dating.
In the Harsh-Only World of the Redpill guys, any talk of joy with women will mean you’ll get labeled “Purplepill.” Per the Redpiller, the main determinant of Purplepill status seems to be that the man doesn’t see the world as sufficiently Harsh. They will call you Purplepill if you don’t sufficiently cling to Harsh interpretations and focus on Defensive concepts. Too boring. Unnecessary. Unbalanced.
When it comes to bringing women into your life… you have choices these men don’t recognize. The Patriarchs and the Classically Masculine men are on a path with women that works. They are attractive men and they don’t talk like Redpillers. The path of the Seducer, the Romancer, the Lover… is a proven path. Very successful path. There are others. Lots of choices.
If Desire is really what you want to get better at… who knows Desire best?
VIBRATION = “THE VIBE:”
So a guy named Pat Stedman wrote an interesting post recently that touches on a lot of the issues I am writing about here. Pat and I don’t agree about everything (I think he and I want different things), but I find a lot of his thinking fresh and interesting.
Pat seems to be “post-game” in terms of picking up, he’s into the Game of relationships. And as he has different goals, he has different tools.
If simple, common men share the language of the Locker Room, that is a good place for all of us to start. Pat can relate. So can I.
One of the things I like about Pat is that he goes beyond the basic wisdom of the Locker Room and incorporates Tools from Psychology and Intimacy. As I have no better way to express it, I call all that stuff “Hippy Technology.” Other guys have called it “Wooo-Wooo.” Calling it “Hippy” or “Woo” is a way of saying, “I know this isn’t typical ‘bro,'” – but take a listen. Hippy Tech can sound a little “airy” versus the brick-and-earth familiarity of Locker Room talk. But especially as you get deeper into Game (as you have “higher goals”), the Hippy Types have some very powerful ideas to share.
There is a lot of Truth at the level of the Locker Room and from the best of the Hippy Tech. I don’t expect basic guys to get excited about Hippy concepts – they are still looking for “the perfect pickup line.” And as we’re all different Types, some guys struggle with terms they don’t understand. I’ll try to connect the dots on one such misunderstanding here. It is a very good example of where the Locker Room and Hippy Tech start to overlap… and it sets us up to evaluate some claims the Redpill Harsh Truthers make.
“Have you ever entered a room filled [with] a bunch of people and felt uncomfortable? Like the air was tense and heavy? Or in contrast, you went to a different gathering and felt like it was fun and welcoming… and yet you had not said anything to anybody yet?”
— Pat Stedman
That is a little vague, perhaps… but I bet most of us have had experiences like this. Pat is talking about what it feels like to be around certain Types. Or how a certain Type might have a certain “vibe.” You don’t have to be a Hippy to pick up on a guy’s vibe – it’s “basic” social calibration (as we’d say in Game).
As daygamers we often talk about vibe. Like, “when my vibe sucks I can’t get the girls to hook.” That is very easy to understand. Or, “that guy has a shit vibe, so when I wing with him, he puts me in a bad mood and we’re both repulsive to girls.” Also easy to understand. Vibe matters.
Now, did you know “vibe” is a short for “vibration?” Exactly the same thing. If “vibration” sounds too Hippy, I get it. But substitute in “vibe” and again, Pat’s use of the term is very easy to understand.
“People who have a negative energy give off a different vibration – literally a lower frequency. And this vibration affects their perception.”
Super Hippy now, right? But Pat is saying that we can call “negative energy” a “lower vibration.” A “low vibe” doesn’t sound fun (or attractive) and it isn’t. We all know what that feels like. This is not a controversial claim.
“The lower your vibration, the more you are oriented towards scarcity, pain, and fear. The higher your vibration, the more you operate in abundance, bliss, and love.”
More “Hippy Tech”. And again, I agree with Pat. Don’t freak out because he used the word “Love.” We don’t talk about Love much in the Locker Room (even though we all know what that means too), but “Fun” fits there too.
Men with a certain “vibe” tend to see the world in terms of Scarcity/Pain/Fear (negative). And other men tend to see the world in terms of Abundance/Love/Fun (positive). Something like that. This is a very old classification system, people have been talking about the world this way for thousands of years.
Here is an example:
“A grandfather is talking with his grandson and he says there are two wolves inside of us which are always at war with each other.
“One of them is a good wolf which represents things like kindness, bravery and love. The other is a bad wolf, which represents things like greed, hatred and fear.
“The grandson stops and thinks about it for a second then he looks up at his grandfather and says, ‘Grandfather, which one wins?’ The grandfather quietly replies, ‘The one you feed.'”
That is an old quote, but it fits this situation very well. In terms of the Love vs Fear dichotomy, which Wolf are you feeding? Can you see that it makes a difference to where you end up? Which one do think is more Seductive?
And this Love vs Fear distinction is true for women’s psychology too. We have some “Fear vibe” girls and some “Love vibe” girls. There are “Takers” (Fear/Scarcity) and “Givers” (Kind/Generous) out there. NAWALT. I have enough experience in the world that these Types are easy to see. I have seen both. I know which flavor I prefer. And I think the kind of Game I run attracts one Type more than the other… I am certain of it.
I know which Wolf I feed. How about you?
I made a claim that the Redpill guys are particularly proud of their ability to concentrate on the Harsh Truths. What does a concentration on “harshness” say about a man’s vibe? Pat says a “low vibe” will influence how you perceive the world. I agree. And it will influence how the world sees you – and what you attract.
Which Wolf will you feed?
I am very interested in the Truth. And I reject the guys that are particularly attached to calling themselves Redpill because in my experience, their philosophy leads to a vibe that sucks. A shit vibe is Anti-game, can you see it? They are very into their Harsh Truths, but are in denial about the possibilities of Blissful Truths, Sexy Truths, Joyful Truths.
There is no Balance in these men. They are the mirror opposite of the Bluepillers: all push, not enough pull. That is equally ineffective.
The “sea” can give you a horrific drowning or can give you a fantastic adventure. I don’t trust men that can’t see both sides. Saying that another way… those men are a certain Type.
NO, DESIRE IS NOT DRIVEN BY ANXIETY:
“The anxiety that comes with the insecurity of the relationship is what drives her to sexual desire.”
“The anxiety IS the desire.”
— Mr Anxiety
Mr Anxiety thinks he speaks for Redpill as he says these things. I think he does, in fact, represent Redpill very well… and the whole mess is embarrassing.
As this came up, he deleted his comments when me and some other guys pressed him, but those are direct quotes (one is quite recent, he was doubling down). I think this kind of thinking IS in fact, “mainline” thinking for Redpill guys. This is more of the Harsh Truth they want you to believe in. It’s very similar to would-be Players that are into “Psychopath Game” etc. Or ones that are overly drunk on Robert Greene. It’s evidence of their Type.
I don’t think these guys are cool. And I doubt that quality women are into this vibe either. But I should stick to my own framework and say some “Type” of women might be into them (and that is probably true), but not the kind I want to date.
It sounds like Mr Anxiety wants us to think “good Game” is about making women Anxious. Is that the “Truth?”
I think it’s particularly untrue. I know many men that are truly excellent at creating Desire – and Anxiety is never what they teach. These Harsh Truth guys are based in a kind of Fear, and their strategies with women come from a view of the sexual marketplace that is based on their own Insecurity and their need for Defense. Their theories aren’t really about the sexual marketplace, or about the girls… their Harshness is really about themselves. They are telling you what Type they are.
Game is not an exercise in endless Paranoia and Defense. And I do not look to these guys for tips on Desire.
“The anxiety IS the desire.”
That is insanely confused bullshit. I have to assume that men that talk like this either don’t know many women intimately or they date a very specific Type indeed. I’ll explore that below.
I am a pickup guy and mine is not a theoretical position. I actually go out, on the street, walk up to girls I don’t know, make conversation, take numbers, get them out on dates. Some fair percentage of those dates end up sexual, and some percentage of those end up somewhat ongoing. I am not trying to be a Boyfriend or a Husband, but I’m not “pump and dump” either. I’m trying to fulfill the Lover category in the sexual marketplace and I have done so with some success.
I never, ever try to create Anxiety in women. In no way does Anxiety turn women on.
Mr Anxiety is not only a Type, but he is also very confused on this topic. So much so, I am certain that Desire is not his specialty.
If I made a girl Anxious when I approached her, do you think she’d stop and talk? No. If I made her Anxious in the messaging stage, would she continue to text? No. Do you think that when men make women Anxious those girls are eager to come out on dates? Of course not.
Attractive, healthy girls, have a lot of choices. A shocking amount of choices. Anxiety is not a good feeling. Why would healthy girls choose Anxiety? And even if they did, would the Anxiety lead specifically to Sexual Desire? That connection is clueless.
Imagine Last Minute Resistance (LMR) for a minute. LMR is a period in a seduction that is naturally a bit “unsure” or Anxious. If a girl is a bit Anxious, or Insecure, or Nervous the first time she’s in bed with a guy, I would say that is a pretty normal. I have closed a lot of girls, and many of them rather quickly. In my experience, if she is Anxious, she is going to want to leave – not get naked. And men with skill can walk a girl through LMR, both make her feel more comfortable (reduce Anxiety) and also turn her on. She will be Excited. Some anxiousness can be a normal byproduct of the newness of it all, but I wouldn’t confuse Excitement or Arousal with Anxiety. They are not even vaguely similar states. More on this when we talk about Maslow’s Hierarchy below.
Mr Anxiety strikes me as a LARPer, a pretender, a fake tough guy… because I have been in too many sexual situations to believe that Anxiety leads to Passion. I don’t think he is talking about Passion, he is confusing Desire with Control. That may be a key to his personal psychology… he is not very good with Desire, and to compensate, he is trying to get more Control.
As the Lover type, the deeper I get into a relationship with a girl the less anxiousness I see. And it is often then that she begins to really open up… to trust me… to move forward, to show me better, richer, juicier parts of herself. She does more for me. Her Passion blooms with Trust. The sex gets much better. Etc. I have seen this too many times to doubt it.
The Harsh Truther’s like this Anxiety… they like Fear… that is the Wolf they feed.
The presence of Anxiety and Fear as a theme from these Types of guys says a lot about them. More on this below. If you’re looking for Anxiety… they’ve got plenty for you. And if you follow them, that is the Wolf you’ll find.
Look at the stories they tell vs the stories of the Men of Game. This is all easy to see.
DAVID DEIDA’S THREE STAGES:
Deida has a model he uses a lot to talk about Types, as well. He calls them “Stages.”
One simple overview is this:
STAGE ONE: Dependence
STAGE TWO: Independence
STAGE THREE: Interdependence
That is a very thin slice of what he would have to say, but that’s a good start. It allows me to start talking about a Type that is interested in having women being Dependent on them, that confuses Desire for an attempt to Control, and how that “stage” fits within a fuller range of opportunities.
Here is a great line from someone else’s review of Deida’s Stage One:
“The man dominates the woman with threats of physical violence and withholding of resources and the woman dominates the man with threats of emotional violence and withholding of sex.”
— Eivind Figenschau Skjellum
I don’t see any of that in my life at all, but it reminds me of some Harsh Truthers I know. I’m putting no emphasis on the physical violence here… but the vibe is the same.
I include the quote from Skjellum to show a relationship between a “low vibe” guy and a “low vibe” girl: How they attract and then extort and torture each other. This is what “low vibration” looks like. And it’s nothing to aim for. You can do better.
The Truth is many things, but I think a lot of guys that have a real hard-on for Redpill “Harsh Truths” are showing you they are something like Stage One Types. They are convinced they have arrived, but they have barely begun. I think that is very true of the Redpill movement. It is what it is, but I don’t think it’s anything to be overly proud of.
And notice the Type of girl that the Deida model predicts: She is to be starved for resources (which might help make her Anxious/Insecure, right?), and then, she is to starve the guy for sex and to wield emotional violence in response. A healthy girl would never date these guys, but a less healthy girl might. And in response to Mr Anxiety’s tactics, she’ll back-stab and coerce, meeting The Harsh Truther in that Harsh world view.
We all know “low end” couples like this, but this is the last place I want to be in terms of my mating and dating. And this is why I encourage men to be very careful who’s Truth they follow.
If we want to break this stuff down, we can start with what Type of guy, what Type of girl, and what Context. With that said, I’ll introduce a subject I’m not overly familiar with, but I had a feeling it would help us explain the conflict between Harsh Truthers and healthier men.
“In psychology, the theory of attachment can be applied to adult relationships including friendships, emotional affairs, adult romantic or platonic relationships.”
The four Attachment Styles are described as 1.) Secure and then three “Insecure” styles including 2.) Anxious-Preoccupied, 3.) Dismissive-Avoidant, and 4.) Fearful-Avoidant.
I don’t want to spend all day on this, but let’s touch on a couple of notes here.
Here is what “Secure” looks like:
“A Secure attachment style is demonstrated by those possessing a positive view of self and a positive view of others. Securely attached people tend to agree with the following statements: ‘It is relatively easy for me to become emotionally close to others. I am comfortable depending on others and having others depend on me. I don’t worry about being alone or others not accepting me.'”
— Attachment Theory
If we were talking about girls here, this ^ sounds like a healthy girl to me. And the girls I date are mostly of this Type.
“Negative” strategies (like trying to make her Anxious) won’t work particularly well on healthy, secure, “high self-esteem” girls. Secure Type guys with experience know this is true. Those girls are healthy, they come from healthy families, they know what healthy looks like. They don’t need to put up with wannabe Redpill Heroes trying to increase their Anxiety. They have met genuinely cool guys before. They would see an attempt to inject Anxiety as particularly clueless and uncalibrated, and they’d be right.
“At these higher levels if you try to operate in a red pill dynamic you will lose your woman, who will not be impressed by your ‘games’ but will pity you.”
— Pat Stedman
I think that is right… for certain Types.
When I was super “green” and learning game, and I’d experiment with breaking rapport (in an amateur way) or testing the potential of “negs” (which is a good example of a low-vibe technique), I would get blown out… and often get eye rolls from girls. If the girl cares for you at all you might get some pity. If not, you get nothing… and you deserve it.
Healthy girls reject low-vibe.
Now, here is the first of the Insecure attachment styles:
“An Anxious-Preoccupied attachment style is demonstrated by those possessing a negative view of self and a positive view of others. People with anxious-preoccupied attachment type tend to agree with the following statements: ‘I want to be completely emotionally intimate with others, but I often find that others are reluctant to get as close as I would like,’ and ‘I am uncomfortable being without close relationships, but I sometimes worry that others don’t value me as much as I value them.’ People with this style of attachment seek high levels of intimacy, approval, and responsiveness from their attachment figure.”
— Attachment Theory
Read that again: “[A] negative view of self and a positive view of others.”
Finally… the Redpill stud has found his girl. We had to dig a bit, but we found a Type that will buy into what Mr Anxiety is selling.
No Anxiety doesn’t increase desire. What is going on here is that the Types of girls that pair well with Harsh Truthers are likely Anxious and needy. They want intimacy, but have a low opinion of themselves, so when they find a guy that also has a low opinion of them (or acts like it), and stokes their Anxiety, they have found something “that is familiar,” it “makes sense” to them (given their Type). We are still not talking about Desire. But if she is needy, and she wants some attention from a Harsh Truther, she might hold still long enough for him to fuck her… and he then does a victory lap bragging about his amazing Anxiety Game. I’d laugh if it wasn’t all so disgusting.
Notice how the hardcore Redpill guys are constantly yammering about bipolar girls (BPD). I’m a Secure type, I don’t aim for “broken” girls, so I really know almost nothing about BPD girls. My “vibe” doesn’t attract them. They are never in life.
But these Redpill guys with so much “wisdom” to share… notice how they talk about BPD a lot. Why is that? They think they need harshness to defend themselves from unstable girls, but maybe harshness attracts those girls in the first place? And maybe the Harsh Truther’s version of “Game” is a perfect match for girls with Anxious-Preoccupied styles? That makes sense to me. A lot of sense.
Pat said that a man’s “vibration affects their perception.” If a low-vibe Redpill guy is drunk on a Harsh Truth cocktail, he’ll see everything through “Redpill Glasses.” He begins with Harsh, the Anxious girls relate to that vibe, and they are a perfect match for each other.
And over time… this is the only “Game” those Redpill guys will recognize. They bring “low vibe” Game. It works on low-vibe girls. They think all girls are low vibe (AWALT), so they bring more Harsh tactics to compensate. They scare off all the sane, healthy girls. This reinforces their crusty worldview. Rinse/Repeat… and you have Mr Anxiety and men like him. Pathetic.
If that’s what you want, if that’s who you are… you know who to follow. And it’s not me. I am going someplace much cleaner than all that bullshit.
A TERRIBLE EXAMPLE:
In a related example, another of these guys was encouraging us to run “Dread Game” (very close to typical Redpill, but the “low vibe” guys in Game likes this negative stuff too). He was talking about his own marriage and he had this to say:
“Which leads me to conclude it was more related to fear of what may happen, then passion for the new me.”
— Mr Terrible Example
This guy is a married man, and the context was he had changed his routine in ways to make her “raise an eyebrow.” “Working out, dressing better,” the usual stuff we suggest that might help a man sharpen his value.
Value is great in every case. Secure people can raise their value. Secure women in their lives can appreciate that. There is nothing “bad vibe” about raising your value.
But notice this guy’s conclusion: He says that her renewed interest in him “was more related to fear of what may happen” (Fear is his word, not mine) than about her Passion for him. To me, that is a terribly sad thing to admit. But he wasn’t “admitting” it. He was borderline bragging about it. “It works” for him. Go Redpill!
“You obviously have to be careful with it and tailor it to the woman so you don’t push her to full blown neurosis.”
— More advice from Mr Terrible Example
Oh, I see. Wow. Yes, I guess we had better be careful indeed. Utter horseshit.
“I care not why I got the desired result, only that I got it. I’m relying on Rollo’s explanation for why it works and my own observation which matches.”
— Mr Terrible Example on his “victory lap”
Okay… he got what he wanted. Just like Mr Anxiety, I think this guy is mainstream Redpill, and I think he looks entirely repulsive. If you want to be him, he is showing you the way. Do you want to be this guy?
These guys think if you successfully create Insecurity in a girl you will see Desire in her. For healthy “good vibe” people, that is nonsensical. Insecurity/instability is not a turn on… not even for low vibration girls.
Insecurity and Anxiety are not sexual feelings. They are related to survival and “lower level” needs.
In Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs – Anxiety is at the level of basic “safety,” and it’s near the bottom of the hierarchy (just above food and water). Desire is up a level from all that. Self Esteem is up even higher. When Pat says “lower vibration,” Maslow’s Hierarchy can show you exactly what “lower” means. Mr Anxiety’s advice will take healthy people backwards, down the model, into survival and safety… none of that is sexy.
“If a woman is more open than a man, she cannot open to him… It would decrease her depth.”
— David Deida
That is some solid Hippy Tech from Deida. And David is saying the same thing Pat is saying… that unless the woman is living at the level of basic survival, aiming for Anxiety would “decrease her depth.” She’d “lose ground.” And if she is attractive, if she has options… why would she choose that kind of man?
“Because, ‘Harsh Truths’ bro.” Nope. Not good enough.
Mr Anxiety and Mr Terrible Example think forcing a girl into “safety mode” is “Game.” As they destabilize these already Insecure girls, as her very survival (economic or psychological) is challenged, it could set up an “exchange” of sorts… she is threatened, so she fucks the guy. It’s about Control and Obedience, not Seduction or Desire. And it is an ugly place to aim for.
If some Harsh Truther can make her (more) Needy and Dependent (Stage One “caveman” in Deida’s model)… maybe he can get laid? Can you see which Wolf that man likes to feed?
Again, I am disgusted.
Many, many things can help you bring girls into your world. You have choices. As the Harsh Truthers aim for Fear and Anxiety and Insecurity, I assume that is because that is all they’ve got. Anxiety Game is bait for their BPD Dream Girl. Be careful what you wish for.
Don’t mistake any of this for Desire. Our Terrible Example here spells it out: “[I]t was more related to fear of what may happen, then passion for the new me.” I actually feel sad for this guy (and his wife). But he is closer to understanding what is going on here than Mr Anxiety. She is afraid. So she complies. This is bottom-of-the-barrel low. Low vibe. Bad game.
The Harsh Truther tough guys don’t discriminate in terms of psychological Type at all. It is AWALT, “one size fits all,” Anxiety/Dread Game for everyone. And that is shit leadership. I feel bad for the guys that are soaking it up.
Pat is right. It is “low vibration.” It’s “bad vibe.” It makes me feel sick to write about it.
But the good news is… I think most men do NOT in fact fit this Type. They are not in fact like the typical try-hard Redpiller LARPer claims to be. I think most hardcore Redpill guys aren’t actually like this either. They just talk like this. And that is a problem, because it confuses people that have even less experience. And it wastes their time… as for healthy men, this path will never be productive.
THE ROLE OF TRUST IN A WOMAN’S ORGASM:
To clear our palate, let’s talk about girls popping off. This is more “good vibe.” Can you feel the shift as we move from “Fear” (Redpill) to “Love” (Seduction)?
I feel better already.
In practice, I don’t focus that much on whether a woman has an orgasm ,but I do try to give them the best experience I can give them. I like to make girls feel good – more “good vibes.” And it seems obvious to me that if you fuck her well, she is more likely to come around for more good times.
Win, win, win.
Recently, I posted the most popular thing I have every posted on Twitter. It was a bunch of notes (again) from David Deida on girl’s orgasms. It was a hot topic. Everybody loved it.
And an interesting theme in those notes was Trust:
On G-SPOT ORGASMS: “G-spot orgasm is also dependent on deep emotional trust. If [she does] not trust [her] partner, [she] won’t relax enough to allow the waves of openness to emanate from [her] g-spot. Those waves of orgasm, open out… it’s an opening of the body that requires trust and emotional connection, so [she] is willing to surrender open the body and be touched deeply.”
On CERVICAL ORGASMS: “So that when she trusts her partner entirely, and when her partner is able to repeated, rhythmically touch the cervical area over and over and over, just right… she is able to really receive that depth of penetration, and in that trust she can open to a cervical orgasm, which is an even more relaxed opening and waves of emanation. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!”
Deida emphasizes “deep emotional trust” and that she “trusts her partner entirely” such that the couple can unlock bigger and better things. Higher consciousness… better vibe. We are moving up in Maslow’s Hierarchy, away from basic survival/Anxiety and into orgasm/Trust/Seduction.
I can say, unequivocally, that the best sex I have ever had was when the girl feels really, really comfortable with me, when she trusted me, when we build that up together over a few sessions (at least). It wasn’t only Trust, but that is a good foundation. Anxiety has never been a part of any of that for me. Tension, yes. Excitement, yet. Dominance, yes. We can employ Classic Masculinity, but Anxiety… for the girls I like… never. Healthy men know the difference.
If Trust is tightly linked to her “surrendering” enough to have a big proper orgasm, maybe there are other ways in which running a more healthy style of Game might benefit ourselves as Players and the girls in our lives. I’ve seen it. Lots of men have.
MORE ATTACHMENT STYLES:
A lot of completely healthy guys can dip into what we might call Redpill theory and pull out something useful here and there. Maybe “not all Redpillers are like that.”
But for the average guy that is going on and on about Redpill this/that (and compulsively tags “@repulsive_male” in every post), I bet money most of these men are not experts on Desire.
Maybe they recently got abused by some girl. Or they just went through a messy divorce (that is a lot of the Redpill space, right there). And of course they would like more access to women (which I respect), but they’re not getting it (most men aren’t). These guys cling to Redpill so they can commiserate together. In the absence of more victories with girls, they can share sad stories and tales of danger.
I can relate to men that have been through hard times, but the endless paranoia with these guys is why Redpill always reminds me much more of MGTOW than Game. I think that distinction is important. And it’s why I don’t look to Redpill guys for lessons on Desire.
And for the guys that really live and breathe this Redpill stuff, here is another look at Attachment Styles:
“Fearful-Avoidant: A Fearful-Avoidant attachment style is demonstrated by those possessing an unstable fluctuating/confused view of self and others. People with losses or other trauma, such as sexual abuse in childhood and adolescence may often develop this type of attachment and tend to agree with the following statements: ‘I am somewhat uncomfortable getting close to others. I want emotionally close relationships, but I find it difficult to completely trust others, or to depend on them. I sometimes worry that I will be hurt if I allow myself to become too close to other people.'”
— Attachment Theory
Hey – we have found the Attachment Style of Redpill Harsh Truthers.
When they say “hypergamy doesn’t care” (which they say over and over and over) we can translate that to “I want emotionally close relationships, but I find it difficult to completely trust others.” That… is a pretty damn good fit.
If a man has had some real disappointing relationships, if he’s been hurt a lot, if concepts like “the anger phase” appeal to him… maybe he is now (or always was) the Fearful-Avoidant Type? “I want emotionally close relationships, but I find it difficult to completely trust others.” “Sometimes worry that I will be hurt if I allow myself to become too close to other people.” A “confused view.” That sounds… exactly… like typical Redpill guys to me.
I bet 1$ Mr Anxiety is that kind of guy.
If the Anxious-Preoccupied attachment style is the Type of girl that responds to Anxiety, then maybe that pairs well with the Fearful-Avoidant Redpiller??
How is that ^ for a “Harsh Truth.”
I had a feeling this Attachment Styles theory could explain some of the confusion in the ‘Sphere. I am not disappointed.
COMPLIANCE AND GAME:
My final thoughts here are about Compliance and Game.
If you’re active in Game, if you’re dating many girls per year (at least), you will have a chance to go beyond theory and try it out. Game has always had a “pure” side to it, as you had to put your theories to the test, see how they work in the field, and how the results of your Game work out over time.
I’ll end where I started and say… we must know the Type of man, the Type of women, and the Context of their relationship if we want analyze or give advice.
When you’re considering advice out there, start with “what Type am I?,” and then ask yourself if that advice fits you. Think about what Type of girls you want in your life, and if that advice seems tailored to be effective with the Type of girls you like. Think about the kind of relationship you want, and see if that advice will take you in the direction you want to go.
And then… go try it. Fucking prove it. See if you get compliance from the girls you want with “Anxiety Game.” See if you enjoy what you’ve “won” when you do.
If you’re sold on the idea that the goal of a proper King is to fill his woman’s head with Insecurity, and that that will generate Desire… I think you’re hopelessly wrong. But go try it. Put up or shut up, Harsh Truther. And if you get what you want… congratulations… it worked for the Type of man you are.
And for the rest of us, I hope you’re on a better path than Mr Anxiety and Mr Terrible Example. And I hope the “10,000” words in this post helped expose some alternatives to the worst the Redpill has to offer.
Fear and Anxiety don’t make for particularly good “lube” for sex. I have tested better options and they work. I don’t get everything I want, but other paths are definitely (more) effective… for the Type of girls I’m into.
As a Lover I have had some fantastic success bringing girls into my life. I have tested Secure Game and it works. “Harsh Truth” and Defense are Anti-game for healthy people and I suggest you digest what is of worth there and quickly move on.
I’m not done learning. This post helped me get a little closer to where I want to go. Many of the solid sources I pointed to in this post represent perspectives I can study that will bring me closer to what I want. More of being a Lover, perhaps. Certainly plenty of Classic Masculinity. Solid Boundaries. Some Pull to match my Push. Plenty of Balance.
Fear or Love? Which Wolf will win in your life? Which Wolf will you feed?
We shall see. Happy hunting.